Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

Vydra · March 2023

Demonzfyre said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.

The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?

Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?

He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.

You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.

Look at you making this about skill now. If that’s all you took away, shame then

It’s about trying out content that’s clearly been designed to “revive spam”. Players who haven’t had that experience will think of it as nothing much or already have the pre existing decision to not attempt it simply because they don’t care enough to plow through ridiculous nodes and objectives

Someone who can’t understand the above would naturally be against such an opinion

Now you wouldn’t ask Abyss tips from a player who hasn’t done Abyss right?

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Sauciestburrito said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Sauciestburrito said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mr_West said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wiredawg1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wiredawg1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
He has more experience from a design perspective than anyone has playing MCOC on here. I don't think it's a reasonable call-out.
You don’t have any room to speak either. You’re thornebreaker
Okay, the last I checked, we were talking about Revives being farmed. Not having an Elementary School contest of whose in-game progress is the biggest.
In actuality, calling people out for progress in the game is a last-ditch effort in a dying debate. It's low-hat.
No one needs to "pony up" to discuss the issue. That's not how this Forum operates. Further to that, if you were to ask me whose judgment I would trust more for what's best for the game, I'd say the person who has many years of experience on both sides of the game. If I want to know how to make Boeuf Bourguignon, I talk to the Chef. Not the customer who eats it everyday.
Feedback from users is valuable. It doesn't matter more than the people who have years of extensive knowledge producing this game, or others. If every change that was ever implemented had to pass popular vote, the game wouldn't have lasted 6 months.
Either way, this mess about calling people out for having views is really juvenile. If you have points to make, use your words. Not your Account.
Hate to burst your bubble and I will. I have experience on both sides. I also have experience in other games where this exact same tactic that is being done by kabam was pulled on nerfing farm runs for stuff for high end farm runs. Runs that you can’t even phantom. Rubs that take 8-12+ hours to compete. And you know what happened when that company pulled what kabam is? They went out of business within a year. Didn’t even take a year. Was 3 months and the game died. So yea. I actually do know what I am talking about unlike you
If you have experience on both sides, then you will understand the difference between player ultimatums and design necessity. One most certainly comes before the other. I find it hard to believe your perspective is reminiscent of someone who has worked on the design aspect. If you did, you would understand the requirements of the job are your primary concern, and if something is even mildly exploitable to the point that it puts constrains on months and months of work, that takes precedence over the desire to hoard in preparation for content that's immediately released. Further negating your design and creating more workload. Of course, you know that so I don't need to point that out.
That’s a terrible argument, they’re not limiting resources. They’re just limiting the free ones.
They're limiting (reducing) the availability of Resources that were more easily farmable than should be for a Player attacking content designed to be highly challenging. Let's be honest. If it wasn't lucrative enough that people were milking it, we wouldn't see this reaction.
You're missing the fact that the challenging content is challenging regardless of how many revives you use. That's actually the point of the content, is that you have to use dozens and dozens of revives to get through it. If they didn't intend for that then they did a terrible job designing it and need to nerf all of the everest content considerably.

If Kabam really wanted to make challenging content only doable by highly skilled players, they would put a revive cap on that content. They didn't do that. Instead they only limited the amount of revives you can get for free. They literally did nothing to stop people from "spamming revives" to get through difficult content. Now you just have to buy those revives.

It's disingenuous at best and a straight up lie at worst.

Is the revive farm extreme and could it be toned down a little? Sure, absolutely. But the fact that the game is overrun by bugs and modders and the thing they choose to address is to take away free revives from players, and then spout off some completely BS and flawed reasoning for doing it is why people are upset.
People are upset because it was an easy-breezy way of getting them. I'm sorry if that offends people, but that's really the crux.
I've been playing for over 7 years. I haven't farmed. Not because I consider myself above it. I just never looked for easier avenues. As long as I've been playing, if I'm attacking a particularly challenging piece of content, I save up as many Pots and Revs as I can muster, AND go in with a certain amount of Units on-hand. That's been the general suggestion for years now.
No content requires people to spam the lower Acts for Revs. That's just not a thing when it comes to the design of the game, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that no content was designed with that in mind, or the preface that people can just spend ad nauseum *muahahaha*. It takes patience, planning, and forethought. That's it.
I actually agree with you, they did not intend for people to get all their revives from lower act farming. They intended for people to buy them with units/money. But I'm sure they also didn't intend for the many bugs and other issues in the game, and here we are.

I have also never farmed. I, like you as I've gathered, have not done Abyss, Labyrinth, or any Carina's challenges. That content you absolutely do need to spam revives for. With inventory caps, you literally cannot save up enough revives before they expire, without farming, to do that content. We're not talking about EQ or weekly EOP fights or even act 7 and 8. Those don't require farming.

They literally designed the end-game content to be revive spammed, and you cannot naturally accumulate enough revives to do it. I guarantee you their idea was that the revives would be costing us, not gotten for free. However, when they come out with some half baked reasoning for the change that is clearly misleading and playing us for fools, people are gonna be rightfully upset. Plus, their "compromise" is no compromise. The rewards from the Apothecary are a complete joke.

Honestly it would have been better for them to just come out and say "We're taking away the revive farm because we want you to spend money on revives instead of getting them for free."

You can hold X amount, plus the Stash, plus collect Units. Many of us have been doing it for a long time.

LetheLatte · March 2023

I like how kabam tried to distract us from this with account bans, yet they target those who mod content whales will normally do and incrusions instead of a pvp mode in to which a lot of the players are affected, yet doesnt distract the fact that they want to remove revive farming

SirGamesBond · March 2023

I dont think I can keep up with this thread anymore. Too many replies. 😂

AverageDesi · March 2023

R_jay0027 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wiredawg1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
He has more experience from a design perspective than anyone has playing MCOC on here. I don't think it's a reasonable call-out.
You don’t have any room to speak either. You’re thornebreaker
Okay, the last I checked, we were talking about Revives being farmed. Not having an Elementary School contest of whose in-game progress is the biggest.
In actuality, calling people out for progress in the game is a last-ditch effort in a dying debate. It's low-hat.
No one needs to "pony up" to discuss the issue. That's not how this Forum operates. Further to that, if you were to ask me whose judgment I would trust more for what's best for the game, I'd say the person who has many years of experience on both sides of the game. If I want to know how to make Boeuf Bourguignon, I talk to the Chef. Not the customer who eats it everyday.
Feedback from users is valuable. It doesn't matter more than the people who have years of extensive knowledge producing this game, or others. If every change that was ever implemented had to pass popular vote, the game wouldn't have lasted 6 months.
Either way, this mess about calling people out for having views is really juvenile. If you have points to make, use your words. Not your Account.
Actually that is a false flag argument. The chef can make the best Beef Bourguignon in the world, but it's only worth what people are willing to pay for it. As a Chef I know that you don't necessarily get to do or make the food you would like if no one wants to pay for it.
Now you are correct this game can do whatever it likes in its own interest. However if it does drive people to spend less and drive away paying customers it will have an impact on everyone.

People stop engaging this guy. He is just trying to get the thread shut down. It happens every time.

But if a customer requires the beef be prepared in a particular way, and the chef knows that it will kill the consumer, no matter how much the customer might like it, the chef should not prepare it.

Threads only get shut down when players indulge in personal attacks against gw. Instead of telling people to not engage, tell them to be nice

AverageDesi · March 2023

SirGamesBond said:
I dont think I can keep up with this thread anymore. Too many replies. 😂

🫂

@SirGamesBond

Demonzfyre · March 2023

Vydra said:

Demonzfyre said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.

The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?

Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?

He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.

You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
Look at you making this about skill now. If that’s all you took away, shame then

It’s about trying out content that’s clearly been designed to “revive spam”. Players who haven’t had that experience will think of it as nothing much or already have the pre existing decision to not attempt it simply because they don’t care enough to plow through ridiculous nodes and objectives

Someone who can’t understand the above would naturally be against such an opinion

Now you wouldn’t ask Abyss tips from a player who hasn’t done Abyss right?

I wouldn't ask for tips from people who used 100 revives either. If I was just going to revive my way through, I wouldn't even need to ask for advice.

I would ask DNA for advice regardless whether he's done the content because he knows the game inside and out.

Wiredawg1 · March 2023

Demonzfyre said:

Vydra said:

Demonzfyre said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.

The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?

Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?

He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.

You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
Look at you making this about skill now. If that’s all you took away, shame then

It’s about trying out content that’s clearly been designed to “revive spam”. Players who haven’t had that experience will think of it as nothing much or already have the pre existing decision to not attempt it simply because they don’t care enough to plow through ridiculous nodes and objectives

Someone who can’t understand the above would naturally be against such an opinion

Now you wouldn’t ask Abyss tips from a player who hasn’t done Abyss right?
I wouldn't ask for tips from people who used 100 revives either. If I was just going to revive my way through, I wouldn't even need to ask for advice.

I would ask DNA for advice regardless whether he's done the content because he knows the game inside and out.

You got to do the content to know what you talking about with it

Vydra · March 2023

Demonzfyre said:

Vydra said:

Demonzfyre said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.

The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?

Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?

He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.

You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
Look at you making this about skill now. If that’s all you took away, shame then

It’s about trying out content that’s clearly been designed to “revive spam”. Players who haven’t had that experience will think of it as nothing much or already have the pre existing decision to not attempt it simply because they don’t care enough to plow through ridiculous nodes and objectives

Someone who can’t understand the above would naturally be against such an opinion

Now you wouldn’t ask Abyss tips from a player who hasn’t done Abyss right?
I wouldn't ask for tips from people who used 100 revives either. If I was just going to revive my way through, I wouldn't even need to ask for advice.

I would ask DNA for advice regardless whether he's done the content because he knows the game inside and out.

You do you. But I guarantee his advice would be along the lines of not touching high end content to succumbing to saving up large amounts of revives regardless if those revives were accrued by farming or units🤭

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Sauciestburrito said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Sauciestburrito said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Sauciestburrito said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Mr_West said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wiredawg1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wiredawg1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
He has more experience from a design perspective than anyone has playing MCOC on here. I don't think it's a reasonable call-out.
You don’t have any room to speak either. You’re thornebreaker
Okay, the last I checked, we were talking about Revives being farmed. Not having an Elementary School contest of whose in-game progress is the biggest.
In actuality, calling people out for progress in the game is a last-ditch effort in a dying debate. It's low-hat.
No one needs to "pony up" to discuss the issue. That's not how this Forum operates. Further to that, if you were to ask me whose judgment I would trust more for what's best for the game, I'd say the person who has many years of experience on both sides of the game. If I want to know how to make Boeuf Bourguignon, I talk to the Chef. Not the customer who eats it everyday.
Feedback from users is valuable. It doesn't matter more than the people who have years of extensive knowledge producing this game, or others. If every change that was ever implemented had to pass popular vote, the game wouldn't have lasted 6 months.
Either way, this mess about calling people out for having views is really juvenile. If you have points to make, use your words. Not your Account.
Hate to burst your bubble and I will. I have experience on both sides. I also have experience in other games where this exact same tactic that is being done by kabam was pulled on nerfing farm runs for stuff for high end farm runs. Runs that you can’t even phantom. Rubs that take 8-12+ hours to compete. And you know what happened when that company pulled what kabam is? They went out of business within a year. Didn’t even take a year. Was 3 months and the game died. So yea. I actually do know what I am talking about unlike you
If you have experience on both sides, then you will understand the difference between player ultimatums and design necessity. One most certainly comes before the other. I find it hard to believe your perspective is reminiscent of someone who has worked on the design aspect. If you did, you would understand the requirements of the job are your primary concern, and if something is even mildly exploitable to the point that it puts constrains on months and months of work, that takes precedence over the desire to hoard in preparation for content that's immediately released. Further negating your design and creating more workload. Of course, you know that so I don't need to point that out.
That’s a terrible argument, they’re not limiting resources. They’re just limiting the free ones.
They're limiting (reducing) the availability of Resources that were more easily farmable than should be for a Player attacking content designed to be highly challenging. Let's be honest. If it wasn't lucrative enough that people were milking it, we wouldn't see this reaction.
You're missing the fact that the challenging content is challenging regardless of how many revives you use. That's actually the point of the content, is that you have to use dozens and dozens of revives to get through it. If they didn't intend for that then they did a terrible job designing it and need to nerf all of the everest content considerably.

If Kabam really wanted to make challenging content only doable by highly skilled players, they would put a revive cap on that content. They didn't do that. Instead they only limited the amount of revives you can get for free. They literally did nothing to stop people from "spamming revives" to get through difficult content. Now you just have to buy those revives.

It's disingenuous at best and a straight up lie at worst.

Is the revive farm extreme and could it be toned down a little? Sure, absolutely. But the fact that the game is overrun by bugs and modders and the thing they choose to address is to take away free revives from players, and then spout off some completely BS and flawed reasoning for doing it is why people are upset.
People are upset because it was an easy-breezy way of getting them. I'm sorry if that offends people, but that's really the crux.
I've been playing for over 7 years. I haven't farmed. Not because I consider myself above it. I just never looked for easier avenues. As long as I've been playing, if I'm attacking a particularly challenging piece of content, I save up as many Pots and Revs as I can muster, AND go in with a certain amount of Units on-hand. That's been the general suggestion for years now.
No content requires people to spam the lower Acts for Revs. That's just not a thing when it comes to the design of the game, and I'd bet my bottom dollar that no content was designed with that in mind, or the preface that people can just spend ad nauseum *muahahaha*. It takes patience, planning, and forethought. That's it.
I actually agree with you, they did not intend for people to get all their revives from lower act farming. They intended for people to buy them with units/money. But I'm sure they also didn't intend for the many bugs and other issues in the game, and here we are.

I have also never farmed. I, like you as I've gathered, have not done Abyss, Labyrinth, or any Carina's challenges. That content you absolutely do need to spam revives for. With inventory caps, you literally cannot save up enough revives before they expire, without farming, to do that content. We're not talking about EQ or weekly EOP fights or even act 7 and 8. Those don't require farming.

They literally designed the end-game content to be revive spammed, and you cannot naturally accumulate enough revives to do it. I guarantee you their idea was that the revives would be costing us, not gotten for free. However, when they come out with some half baked reasoning for the change that is clearly misleading and playing us for fools, people are gonna be rightfully upset. Plus, their "compromise" is no compromise. The rewards from the Apothecary are a complete joke.

Honestly it would have been better for them to just come out and say "We're taking away the revive farm because we want you to spend money on revives instead of getting them for free."

You can hold X amount, plus the Stash, plus collect Units. Many of us have been doing it for a long time.
Yes... What's your point, everyone knows that lol. Let me know how it goes when you try and do the end game content with your naturally saved up resources.

The content was designed with the natural means in mind, so clearly it's possible. They have yet to design permanent content that MUST be done with money.

Demonzfyre · March 2023

Wiredawg1 said:

Demonzfyre said:

Vydra said:

Demonzfyre said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.

The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?

Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?

He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.

You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
Look at you making this about skill now. If that’s all you took away, shame then

It’s about trying out content that’s clearly been designed to “revive spam”. Players who haven’t had that experience will think of it as nothing much or already have the pre existing decision to not attempt it simply because they don’t care enough to plow through ridiculous nodes and objectives

Someone who can’t understand the above would naturally be against such an opinion

Now you wouldn’t ask Abyss tips from a player who hasn’t done Abyss right?
I wouldn't ask for tips from people who used 100 revives either. If I was just going to revive my way through, I wouldn't even need to ask for advice.

I would ask DNA for advice regardless whether he's done the content because he knows the game inside and out.
You got to do the content to know what you talking about with it

He did the EoP fights. They didn't change from when they were weekly. 🤷

Demonzfyre · March 2023

Vydra said:

Demonzfyre said:

Vydra said:

Demonzfyre said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.

The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?

Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?

He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.

You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
Look at you making this about skill now. If that’s all you took away, shame then

It’s about trying out content that’s clearly been designed to “revive spam”. Players who haven’t had that experience will think of it as nothing much or already have the pre existing decision to not attempt it simply because they don’t care enough to plow through ridiculous nodes and objectives

Someone who can’t understand the above would naturally be against such an opinion

Now you wouldn’t ask Abyss tips from a player who hasn’t done Abyss right?
I wouldn't ask for tips from people who used 100 revives either. If I was just going to revive my way through, I wouldn't even need to ask for advice.

I would ask DNA for advice regardless whether he's done the content because he knows the game inside and out.
You do you. But I guarantee his advice would be along the lines of not touching high end content to succumbing to saving up large amounts of revives regardless if those revives were accrued by farming or units🤭

Did the EoP fights change from when they were weekly? No. The only difference is they're all on 2 paths and Thanos is the boss which we've fought before.

I don't care about Abyss or lab. I've done my 1 path in each and that's all I care about.

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

R_jay0027 said:

AverageDesi said:

R_jay0027 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wiredawg1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
He has more experience from a design perspective than anyone has playing MCOC on here. I don't think it's a reasonable call-out.
You don’t have any room to speak either. You’re thornebreaker
Okay, the last I checked, we were talking about Revives being farmed. Not having an Elementary School contest of whose in-game progress is the biggest.
In actuality, calling people out for progress in the game is a last-ditch effort in a dying debate. It's low-hat.
No one needs to "pony up" to discuss the issue. That's not how this Forum operates. Further to that, if you were to ask me whose judgment I would trust more for what's best for the game, I'd say the person who has many years of experience on both sides of the game. If I want to know how to make Boeuf Bourguignon, I talk to the Chef. Not the customer who eats it everyday.
Feedback from users is valuable. It doesn't matter more than the people who have years of extensive knowledge producing this game, or others. If every change that was ever implemented had to pass popular vote, the game wouldn't have lasted 6 months.
Either way, this mess about calling people out for having views is really juvenile. If you have points to make, use your words. Not your Account.
Actually that is a false flag argument. The chef can make the best Beef Bourguignon in the world, but it's only worth what people are willing to pay for it. As a Chef I know that you don't necessarily get to do or make the food you would like if no one wants to pay for it.
Now you are correct this game can do whatever it likes in its own interest. However if it does drive people to spend less and drive away paying customers it will have an impact on everyone.

People stop engaging this guy. He is just trying to get the thread shut down. It happens every time.
But if a customer requires the beef be prepared in a particular way, and the chef knows that it will kill the consumer, no matter how much the customer might like it, the chef should not prepare it.

Threads only get shut down when players indulge in personal attacks against gw. Instead of telling people to not engage, tell them to be nice
Again the culinary analogies simple do not apply/work here. These are simply what if scenarios that truly don't apply to what is happening. People are free to keep making them, but they just muddy the waters. A way of making an argument that doesn't apply and is meant to distract.

And no, I said what I said. I am good with that part. If it's ignored that's ok. I am no ones keeper here.

I'm trained in the food industry. I'm quite aware. It was an example of someone who knows the ins-and-outs of the subject, versus someone who is a patron. It's not a new concept. People have been saying for years that they know the game better than Kabam.

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

*Or in his case, someone with extensive work in the field.

Vydra · March 2023

Demonzfyre said:

Vydra said:

Demonzfyre said:

Vydra said:

Demonzfyre said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.

The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?

Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?

He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.

You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
Look at you making this about skill now. If that’s all you took away, shame then

It’s about trying out content that’s clearly been designed to “revive spam”. Players who haven’t had that experience will think of it as nothing much or already have the pre existing decision to not attempt it simply because they don’t care enough to plow through ridiculous nodes and objectives

Someone who can’t understand the above would naturally be against such an opinion

Now you wouldn’t ask Abyss tips from a player who hasn’t done Abyss right?
I wouldn't ask for tips from people who used 100 revives either. If I was just going to revive my way through, I wouldn't even need to ask for advice.

I would ask DNA for advice regardless whether he's done the content because he knows the game inside and out.
You do you. But I guarantee his advice would be along the lines of not touching high end content to succumbing to saving up large amounts of revives regardless if those revives were accrued by farming or units🤭
Did the EoP fights change from when they were weekly? No. The only difference is they're all on 2 paths and Thanos is the boss which we've fought before.

I don't care about Abyss or lab. I've done my 1 path in each and that's all I care about.

LMAO. I would appreciate if you don’t trivialise EoP Acceptance to singular EoP fights. Bigggg difference.

But point still stands, his advice wouldn’t differ much from avoiding high end content(as you’ve already corroborated) or needing large amounts of revives accrued by farming or units

King_Kurisu · March 2023

DNA3000 said:

King_Kurisu said:

DNA3000 said:

King_Kurisu said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Bro, you haven’t completed any content.
I'm sorry: who are you again, and what have you done that I'm supposed to care about?
That’s a pretty rude and disrespectful response. Doesn’t seem within the forums guidelines to be so toxic towards another player.
Bro, that was me being polite. I don't know who you are, and that makes it highly unlikely you are in a position to make a valid judgment upon me. So I'm assuming your statement was an attempt at disqualifying my opinion. The forum rules do not protect you from being challenged for such a comment.

Who I am doesn't matter. I'm a player of this game, like you. Therefore, my thoughts and opinions matter on the same level as yours. But you can look me up in game under the same name or catch me in the chats of all the popular streamers throughout the day.

I wasn't disqualifying your opinion, I was stating a fact that you have done content that requires the level of revives that necessitate farming them or buying them. Until you do content of that level, do you feel it is fair that you rally against players actively playing on that level?

Doing the 4* Star Lord Carina's Challenge requires at a minimum, 70 revives. If you play perfect and never get hit. 70. That is by design.

SirGamesBond · March 2023

I have done all content even before 3.2.6 was a thing. I'm f2p. I have 0 content left in game.

I don't care if they nerf 3.2.6.
It's the lies and mind games.
Rng of revives? We are helping you? 😂
The trivialising of content?
I have Spammed way less revives than an average whale spamming revives on content using odins.(not including skilled whales, skill+whale is one dangerous combo).
This is not a flex of skill, I'm proud of how I managed resources.

I sell 10 revives every week, I can spam those expired revives on 'EOP Grief Incarnate' bosses quest, but I won't. I don't need a Pfp to flex anything. That quest is pure revive spam.

If I could only do C3 with revives, I wouldnt have bought 1k unit bundle. I opened ~400 free crystals for revives and potions. I plan. As I have planned for all content before it.

They say Revive Spam
Let's see how many people here did the old carinas without revive spam?

Nerf 3.2.6. I couldnt care less. I trust my skills and planning, it would take me extra month or two. But I'll do any content, but these content are made to spam revives. I would save revives and do it anyway.

Tell me this thing now, If i used my saved revives to do this content,(~30 per run) would that make it not a revive spam?

I will use same amount of revives, be it today or 10 days or a month from now.
Will kabam still judge me? Cause I "Trivialised" EOP with my own saved up revives?

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

R_jay0027 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

R_jay0027 said:

AverageDesi said:

R_jay0027 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wiredawg1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
He has more experience from a design perspective than anyone has playing MCOC on here. I don't think it's a reasonable call-out.
You don’t have any room to speak either. You’re thornebreaker
Okay, the last I checked, we were talking about Revives being farmed. Not having an Elementary School contest of whose in-game progress is the biggest.
In actuality, calling people out for progress in the game is a last-ditch effort in a dying debate. It's low-hat.
No one needs to "pony up" to discuss the issue. That's not how this Forum operates. Further to that, if you were to ask me whose judgment I would trust more for what's best for the game, I'd say the person who has many years of experience on both sides of the game. If I want to know how to make Boeuf Bourguignon, I talk to the Chef. Not the customer who eats it everyday.
Feedback from users is valuable. It doesn't matter more than the people who have years of extensive knowledge producing this game, or others. If every change that was ever implemented had to pass popular vote, the game wouldn't have lasted 6 months.
Either way, this mess about calling people out for having views is really juvenile. If you have points to make, use your words. Not your Account.
Actually that is a false flag argument. The chef can make the best Beef Bourguignon in the world, but it's only worth what people are willing to pay for it. As a Chef I know that you don't necessarily get to do or make the food you would like if no one wants to pay for it.
Now you are correct this game can do whatever it likes in its own interest. However if it does drive people to spend less and drive away paying customers it will have an impact on everyone.

People stop engaging this guy. He is just trying to get the thread shut down. It happens every time.
But if a customer requires the beef be prepared in a particular way, and the chef knows that it will kill the consumer, no matter how much the customer might like it, the chef should not prepare it.

Threads only get shut down when players indulge in personal attacks against gw. Instead of telling people to not engage, tell them to be nice
Again the culinary analogies simple do not apply/work here. These are simply what if scenarios that truly don't apply to what is happening. People are free to keep making them, but they just muddy the waters. A way of making an argument that doesn't apply and is meant to distract.

And no, I said what I said. I am good with that part. If it's ignored that's ok. I am no ones keeper here.
I'm trained in the food industry. I'm quite aware. It was an example of someone who knows the ins-and-outs of the subject, versus someone who is a patron. It's not a new concept. People have been saying for years that they know the game better than Kabam.
Again this is just tangent argument. There are people who know the ins-and-outs of restaurants that fail all the time because they couldn't translate their expertise to a consumer base willing to buy in. Patrons don't need to be experts, but their buy in is imperative for sustainable success.

Again I am not arguing that Kabam isn't allowed to change what it wants. It has always had that right.

And I, like yourself don't farm for revives in this way. So we are unaffected, game doesn't change for either of us.

But I believe this does shift a part of the game to a different balance. And
Patrons usually do understand balance shifts more quickly because it directly impacts them.

And so I am not buying Kabam narrative on this matter. If you do, kudos to you

The purpose of the example was not to say that customer feedback isn't valuable. It was to point out that given the choice on who I would trust for what's best for the game, I'm going to side with the experts. Not what's best for it in the general sense of what people want and would like to see. What's best for it for the health of the game overall.
I suppose it was an example that opened more than I intended, and I agree. In a restaurant, you need to listen to the customers because if you don't you're out of business.
In terms of the game, you need to prioritize the health of the game overall. We can debate endlessly what's best for it and what isn't, but the only perspective that matters in that is the people who actually design, maintain, balance, and produce the game.

Wiredawg1 · March 2023

Demonzfyre said:

Vydra said:

Demonzfyre said:

Vydra said:

Demonzfyre said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
The last piece of content I attempted and failed was the Maze. If the last piece of content I attempted was the Maze, then you are using a time machine to talk to me in 2019.

The very next sentence says "if it came and went after that, I completed it at its highest difficulty." That's all the Boss Rushes, all the celebrity challenges, all the special one time quests, the Gauntlet, Summer of Pain, and all of the weekly EoP quests. All points, all milestones, all achievable rewards. The only EoP content I haven't done yet are the permanent EoP objectives, as I mentioned. I don't think that counts as "barely did EoP."
So you've done all the things that don't require 'revive spamming, which was his point. You haven't done Abyss or Carina's Vol 2 or 3. Did you do Vol 1 with the 4* LOL runs?

Are you planning on doing any of that content and if so how are you going to do it w/o spending?
Why do you think you're a better player than him because you revived your way through carinas or the abyss? How much skill does it take to revive 50 times to complete a carinas challenge or a path in abyss?

He's not saying he couldn't do EoP with Carinas V3, he's saying he hasn't tried. Really, anyone can revive their way through content but that doesn't make them a skilled player. He has as much insight if not more than nearly everyone on these forums. He's been one of the few people in the community who have actually had direct effect on changes made to the game.

You aren't MSD, you aren't Sweeduh and you aren't Slayer. You're a regular person who revived their way through content.
Look at you making this about skill now. If that’s all you took away, shame then

It’s about trying out content that’s clearly been designed to “revive spam”. Players who haven’t had that experience will think of it as nothing much or already have the pre existing decision to not attempt it simply because they don’t care enough to plow through ridiculous nodes and objectives

Someone who can’t understand the above would naturally be against such an opinion

Now you wouldn’t ask Abyss tips from a player who hasn’t done Abyss right?
I wouldn't ask for tips from people who used 100 revives either. If I was just going to revive my way through, I wouldn't even need to ask for advice.

I would ask DNA for advice regardless whether he's done the content because he knows the game inside and out.
You do you. But I guarantee his advice would be along the lines of not touching high end content to succumbing to saving up large amounts of revives regardless if those revives were accrued by farming or units🤭
Did the EoP fights change from when they were weekly? No. The only difference is they're all on 2 paths and Thanos is the boss which we've fought before.

I don't care about Abyss or lab. I've done my 1 path in each and that's all I care about.

Lmao and let me guess. You didn’t do any of the objectives right?

Wiredawg1 · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

R_jay0027 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

R_jay0027 said:

AverageDesi said:

R_jay0027 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Wiredawg1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

Ironman3000 said:

DNA3000 said:

37v417 said:
What a disgusting money grab. Shame on you, you vultures.
How much are you planning on increasing your spending after this change? Because I wasn't planning on spending more because of this change. How exactly is this going to make money? Who's going to be spending more?
This is just wrong DNA. Do you not remember before the revive path? In most cases, it was drop an Odin or don't complete the content. This is an awful change.
I have never spent cash to complete any content in the game. I have no plans to start any time soon.
Then you have no skin in the game. You don't complete the content that you need revives for so this doesn't affect you.

That's like me, who doesn't play arena, supporting a nerf to units from the milestones because it doesn't affect me.

Very selfish stance.
I said I don't spend cash to complete content. And neither do the people who farm revives to within an inch of their lives. I *am* the player this change is targeted at, moreso than probably anyone else. The top tier players who farm revives aren't going to be affected all that much: they can still do almost everything. It just might be harder for them to save up the resources. The whales aren't going to blink an eye.

It is players like me who will either be able to do it with farmed resources or probably not at all who have the most skin in the game. We are the players whose game experience will change the most after this change. Most of the players I know who either oppose this change or who dislike it, they are almost all exactly like me, in exactly the same position as me, contemplating a game where top tier content might be drifting out of reach. Players who balanced skill and resource management to make progress in the game.

I have a lot of sympathy for them, because I am them. And anyone who thinks they own the moral high ground to tell me I am not qualified to have an opinion on the matter is free to locate the nearest tree and make for that moral high ground.

That’s your comment from yesterday. If the last piece of content you did was the Maze and you failed and barely did EoP, we have some news for you
He has more experience from a design perspective than anyone has playing MCOC on here. I don't think it's a reasonable call-out.
You don’t have any room to speak either. You’re thornebreaker
Okay, the last I checked, we were talking about Revives being farmed. Not having an Elementary School contest of whose in-game progress is the biggest.
In actuality, calling people out for progress in the game is a last-ditch effort in a dying debate. It's low-hat.
No one needs to "pony up" to discuss the issue. That's not how this Forum operates. Further to that, if you were to ask me whose judgment I would trust more for what's best for the game, I'd say the person who has many years of experience on both sides of the game. If I want to know how to make Boeuf Bourguignon, I talk to the Chef. Not the customer who eats it everyday.
Feedback from users is valuable. It doesn't matter more than the people who have years of extensive knowledge producing this game, or others. If every change that was ever implemented had to pass popular vote, the game wouldn't have lasted 6 months.
Either way, this mess about calling people out for having views is really juvenile. If you have points to make, use your words. Not your Account.
Actually that is a false flag argument. The chef can make the best Beef Bourguignon in the world, but it's only worth what people are willing to pay for it. As a Chef I know that you don't necessarily get to do or make the food you would like if no one wants to pay for it.
Now you are correct this game can do whatever it likes in its own interest. However if it does drive people to spend less and drive away paying customers it will have an impact on everyone.

People stop engaging this guy. He is just trying to get the thread shut down. It happens every time.
But if a customer requires the beef be prepared in a particular way, and the chef knows that it will kill the consumer, no matter how much the customer might like it, the chef should not prepare it.

Threads only get shut down when players indulge in personal attacks against gw. Instead of telling people to not engage, tell them to be nice
Again the culinary analogies simple do not apply/work here. These are simply what if scenarios that truly don't apply to what is happening. People are free to keep making them, but they just muddy the waters. A way of making an argument that doesn't apply and is meant to distract.

And no, I said what I said. I am good with that part. If it's ignored that's ok. I am no ones keeper here.
I'm trained in the food industry. I'm quite aware. It was an example of someone who knows the ins-and-outs of the subject, versus someone who is a patron. It's not a new concept. People have been saying for years that they know the game better than Kabam.
Again this is just tangent argument. There are people who know the ins-and-outs of restaurants that fail all the time because they couldn't translate their expertise to a consumer base willing to buy in. Patrons don't need to be experts, but their buy in is imperative for sustainable success.

Again I am not arguing that Kabam isn't allowed to change what it wants. It has always had that right.

And I, like yourself don't farm for revives in this way. So we are unaffected, game doesn't change for either of us.

But I believe this does shift a part of the game to a different balance. And
Patrons usually do understand balance shifts more quickly because it directly impacts them.

And so I am not buying Kabam narrative on this matter. If you do, kudos to you
The purpose of the example was not to say that customer feedback isn't valuable. It was to point out that given the choice on who I would trust for what's best for the game, I'm going to side with the experts. Not what's best for it in the general sense of what people want and would like to see. What's best for it for the health of the game overall.
I suppose it was an example that opened more than I intended, and I agree. In a restaurant, you need to listen to the customers because if you don't you're out of business.
In terms of the game, you need to prioritize the health of the game overall. We can debate endlessly what's best for it and what isn't, but the only perspective that matters in that is the people who actually design, maintain, balance, and produce the game.

False. Complete and utter false. The people who design maintain it don’t. Cause they are not the ones who hit here and actually play the game. And don’t say they do because if they did we still would not be having input issues 18 months later with getting common answers if we can’t reproduce the bug or input issues

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

You're absolutely right. If the people who design and maintain the game sat here and played hours on end, there wouldn't be bugs for 18 months. There wouldn't be a game because no one would be doing their job.

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Although if you can find a team that can test every single report with every single gaming scenario and every single device being used, I'd be happy to see the results. I hear monkeys with typewriters are effective....eventually.

Wiredawg1 · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
You're absolutely right. If the people who design and maintain the game sat here and played hours on end, there wouldn't be bugs for 10 months. There wouldn't be a game because no one would be doing their job.

Your premise that a game only answers to its developers is completely false. A game just like a business which a game is. Answers to 2 different people 1 is their customers. After all for any business to succeed it needs the customers cause the customers is the one who pays the business bills. The 2nd in this case of kabam is its stock holders. Both have say in what happens with a business without 1 you don’t have the other. The thing to find is the common ground between both

Wiredawg1 · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
Although if you can find a team that can test every single report with every single gaming scenario and every single device being used, I'd be happy to see the results. I hear monkeys with typewriters are effective....eventually.

Not that hard with 1 of the platforms used. The other yea that is hard to do. Apple it’s not as all it’s devices use 1 operating system’s software. Android yea that is harder to do. And considering the input issue per kabam and the player base been centered around the apple platform shouldn’t be that hard to figure out. Then again. I know it’s not as I use to troubleshoot circuits, phones, and computers for the military

Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

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