Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

1343537394056

Comments

  • StatureStature Member Posts: 473 ★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    So yes, the net effect will be to place a roadblock in the game that spenders will be able to get past, to some degree. However, that's not the same thing as saying it is there to make money. Allowing spenders to get something for their spending that non-spenders can't get is how we convince players to spend. The devs do not want thousands of spenders to just blow past their hardest content, because that money isn't worth it. They just can't take too many steps to prevent that from happening, or risk their spenders deciding spending isn't worth it.

    If "an average Paragon player" shouldn't be able to complete content early w/ farmed revives, should "an average Paragon player" be able to complete content w/ purchased revives?

    What this change is saying is, "yes, an average Paragon player can do the content as long as they purchase the revives and not get them for free".

    In a microtransaction based game with no ads, why would you ever expect the answer to that question to be no?

    The way I read it, with every piece of content, it is expected that some % of the player base will be able to do it without spending. Right now the % of the player base completing the content without spending is higher than what was expected - because there is a cheat code which allows higher than planned access to revives.

    When it is said that "this trivializes content" or "rewards will have to be diluted", the implication is that more people than planned are completing the content and getting the rewards - without spending. Spending is a way around this. They can leave the revives as it is, let more people finish the content but reduce the rewards - so next time you have to buy the r4-5 gem in one of the deals or from the unit store instead of getting it for completing V3. That is what diluting rewards means, not that the same champs or rank up materials will not be available, just that you'll have to pay for them.

    Eventually all players will get access to everything available in the game - that's the nature of a progression game. Only thing the game can sell is early access to resources. If there is a cheat code around this, it will obviously be plugged at some point.
  • Dirty_DozzDirty_Dozz Member Posts: 497 ★★★
    Jefechuta said:



    b) They would be giving a good alternative if this was 2017-2019, since the game as evolved but the potions and revives didnt got updated, 375 HP potions are useless unless you have Sigil so you can trade 25 for the big HP potion.

    Even this isn't even that great, because you can only make that trade once a month, maybe twice if there's an overlap. So yeah, while it's better to be able to trade ~10k healing for a total of 25k, that's still only a super infrequent thing.

  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,317 ★★★★★
    jdeck59 said:

    @Demonzfyre you made it clear that you do not do end game content and therefore this doesn't affect you. Only words anyone needs to hear

    When did I make it clear? When I said I've done a path in abyss and Lab? Having all story content done except exploration of act 6 which isn't end game? I've done all the EoP fights before and gauntlet. Im 2/6 on V3 Carinas. I do map 8 in AQ, I've played as high as plat 1 in AW. So... I'm not sure how I made it clear that I don't do high end content. But whatever.
  • JesusnwoJesusnwo Member Posts: 20
    People complaining about sandbagging but ya wanna get unlimited revives to help ya beat the game hypocrites
  • This content has been removed.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,415 ★★★★★

    I semi-regularly use an energy refill to grab revives, all fired up to use a bit of free time to get after some content, then my gaf peters out once I remember that I hate doing long-form content anymore and I skip it in favor of short-form fluff where I don't even need revives unless I'm messing around with a suboptimal champ I like. If the fights will be longer or more complex than a monthly event fight, or require a ranked up niche champ to make palatable, I doubt I'll end up doing it, unless I luck out and the optimal champ to finish quickly is one that I have ranked up AND like to play.

    Here's something I'd love to hear from the devs, what change in content clearing are you expecting with this move? I know we'll never get the honest answer of more people buying units for revives but what are the alternatives really?

    People relentlessly practice and fail deep into quests using revives to get there and restart? Not happening.

    It takes significantly longer to build an inventory and therefore content stays uncleared longer? Likely to happen, but also result in the content never being cleared with design time and cost made less use of.

    Players just don't bother anymore because they know the likelihood of needing to burn units or worse buy units when they get stuck? This is most likely as it already happens.

    I'd really love to hear not just their hilariously disingenuous reasoning behind making this change, but what result they're after by making it. Saying revive spamming bad while leaving the option there through other means doesn't add up, what do they think players will do when they keep dying other than revive?

  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Member Posts: 2,415 ★★★★★

    Sidd777 said:

    I’d be interested to know across how many players the 100k to 300k revives are farmed daily given how big the playerbase is

    Let’s say for argument sake there is 300,000 active players. That’s 1 revive per person.

    Now let’s say there is 2,000,000 players. That is 6 people farming all those.

    Let’s say there is 10k everest players that comes out to them farming 30 a day.

    Or let’s say there is only 1,000 everest players that’s them farming 300 a day.

    But honestly let’s get real. 300k revives farmed a day is a blatant lie.
    They need to give more data to give their analysis some weight and context. Are they saying that there are 300k revives added to inventory/stash in a day, full stop? I'd believe that.

    300k revives picked up in Acts 1 - 3 by Cavalier and above players? Doesn't sound likely and I'd want to see more data and analysis. What are they considering farming and what constitutes spam? Are they saying thousands of people have hundreds of revives and are getting a few hits in, dying and then reviving over and over again to get through the everest content? That doesn't sound likely.

    What's the revive use threshold before you're considered a spammer? More than one? More than 20? Per fight or per path? What about the boss?

  • MavRCK_MavRCK_ Member Posts: 512 ★★★
    1) Could the inventory limit on revives be raised significantly to 30 or 40?

    2) I'm not a huge spender - but there was a time when an odin or two or three per year was an annual event. I've found that the game has progressed to a state where massive spending gives you an advantage and spending a moderate, reasonable amount does not and is neither impactful nor meaningful. I imagine have occasional spenders of a large volume is important to the health of the game and the finances of the company, so perhaps making changes that encourage rather than discourage players in my position would be good for the game.
  • CoppinCoppin Member Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    thepiggy said:

    Does anything ever actually change because we’ve done the same song-and-dance every year since 12.0.

    Sudden major change to the detriment of players followed by “we heard you” and a promise of more balance.

    Nerfing OGs then making Blade/Corvus/Ghost, removing defender diversity, removing year round gifting, incentivizing Corvus use in map 7 then removing it, not updating alliance potions in forever then forcing unit purchases…I forget most of it.

    Kabam creates a problem, incentivizes a solution then blames players for adapting then removes the solution and this cycle goes on and on forever and nothing changes no matter how much they promise balance and transparency. We’ll be doing this same dance every 10-12 months until the game closes.

    Farming has become a necessity because you can’t make balanced content because you let loose broken champs that you make a ton of money on. Why do players have to suffer for this? This game is supposed to be fun, we’re not supposed to be slaves to a full time gaming job and farming is already time consuming enough.

    This is one of those most hostile anti-player moves you can think of. What’s next? 5 champi slots and 70 energy bars were never intended?

    The decision is already taken, now we are just bargaining (not even asking for a compromise.. is not the same as bargaining) for a significant change in stash volume and availability of revives.. thinking that argueing between us will solve anything is surreal...
  • SearmenisSearmenis Member Posts: 1,672 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023

    Sidd777 said:

    I’d be interested to know across how many players the 100k to 300k revives are farmed daily given how big the playerbase is

    Let’s say for argument sake there is 300,000 active players. That’s 1 revive per person.

    Now let’s say there is 2,000,000 players. That is 6 people farming all those.

    Let’s say there is 10k everest players that comes out to them farming 30 a day.

    Or let’s say there is only 1,000 everest players that’s them farming 300 a day.

    But honestly let’s get real. 300k revives farmed a day is a blatant lie.
    They need to give more data to give their analysis some weight and context. Are they saying that there are 300k revives added to inventory/stash in a day, full stop? I'd believe that.

    300k revives picked up in Acts 1 - 3 by Cavalier and above players? Doesn't sound likely and I'd want to see more data and analysis. What are they considering farming and what constitutes spam? Are they saying thousands of people have hundreds of revives and are getting a few hits in, dying and then reviving over and over again to get through the everest content? That doesn't sound likely.

    What's the revive use threshold before you're considered a spammer? More than one? More than 20? Per fight or per path? What about the boss?

    That's exactly how you present a "problem": you provide information for the general, biggest set, that when applied to the unit is not, depending of how many units consist this group, something that we don't know. If the group is 10 people, 300k is outrageous big. If the group is about 150k players,...oh wait, it s 150 k players isn't it? That s why kabam Compromises and gives us 1 revive with a chance of 2, instead of the 2 we were grinding all along!

    This is a nice Russell's Paradox application actually.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,634 ★★★★★
    thepiggy said:

    Does anything ever actually change because we’ve done the same song-and-dance every year since 12.0.

    Sudden major change to the detriment of players followed by “we heard you” and a promise of more balance.

    Nerfing OGs then making Blade/Corvus/Ghost, removing defender diversity, removing year round gifting, incentivizing Corvus use in map 7 then removing it, not updating alliance potions in forever then forcing unit purchases…I forget most of it.

    Kabam creates a problem, incentivizes a solution then blames players for adapting then removes the solution and this cycle goes on and on forever and nothing changes no matter how much they promise balance and transparency. We’ll be doing this same dance every 10-12 months until the game closes.

    Farming has become a necessity because you can’t make balanced content because you let loose broken champs that you make a ton of money on. Why do players have to suffer for this? This game is supposed to be fun, we’re not supposed to be slaves to a full time gaming job and farming is already time consuming enough.

    This is one of those most hostile anti-player moves you can think of. What’s next? 5 champi slots and 70 energy bars were never intended?

    There's a fundamental difference between design intentions and what's been born from habit. 5 slots and 70 Energy have been an intended aspect for as long as is established. When you're talking about farming lower content, that was never a part of the intended design. It was designed with the Players who are at that stage in mind. They do the content to 100%, and then move on to future content, presumably. We still have access to it for whatever reason we feel like doing it again, but when that reason creates a situation that undermines the objective availability of valuable Resources, that's a problem that doesn't fall under "Part of the game so it's intended.".
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,634 ★★★★★
    How many of those are active?
  • ChobblyChobbly Member Posts: 968 ★★★★
    JediTrix5 said:

    I have no problem with the changes moving forward. Things change. We adjust.

    However, the change isn’t fair to those of us who haven’t farmed and completed things like EoP Carina challenges yet. So by not abusing the system and racing to do everything immediately I’m being put at an unfair disadvantage?

    I think that's a very fair question @JediTrix5 and I hoped it doesn't get lost in the morass of posts on the subject.

    The decision doesn't help new or upcoming players or those who haven't already completed that content. I think this is where there is an argument for a minor rebalancing of some content going forwards.
  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    edited March 2023
    JediTrix5 said:

    I However, the change isn’t fair to those of us who haven’t farmed and completed things like EoP Carina challenges yet. So by not abusing the system and racing to do everything immediately I’m being put at an unfair disadvantage?

    Now that's something I never thought of, I'm currently debating whether to get the EoP done while the farming option is still there but I just don't have the time to farm that many in such a short window.... and this is the thing with this whole farming situation, most people use the likes of 3.2.6 to farm revives but a good amount of them players don't do it all day everyday, it's far too time consuming (and boring). I like that there is a solid place to farm revives, a place which I'll visit when I have some time to do so

    Maybe a good compromise would be to leave it as is and then any new "everest" content that gets released has a limit on how many revives one can use in there, that would still render the farming option pointless while maintaining difficulty. The only thing here is that those folk who want spend a fortune on revives to push through it, won't be able to... which I don't see kabam doing
  • JediTrix5JediTrix5 Member Posts: 5
    Mackey said:


    Maybe a good compromise would be to leave it as is and then any new "everest" content that gets released has a limit on how many revives one can use in there, that would still render the farming option pointless while maintaining difficulty. The only thing here is that those folk who want spend a fortune on revives to push through it, won't be able to... which I don't see kabam doing

    I like the idea of limiting revives on future content. We’ve actually seen this with recent SQ objectives where we need to solo bosses.

    And I agree this doesn’t align with what we are all assuming is the driving factor of this change - to sell more units/revives.

    Perhaps future Everest content uses some special revive that is only obtainable through units? Think something like Abyss specific revives.
  • MackeyMackey Member Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    JediTrix5 said:

    Mackey said:


    Maybe a good compromise would be to leave it as is and then any new "everest" content that gets released has a limit on how many revives one can use in there, that would still render the farming option pointless while maintaining difficulty. The only thing here is that those folk who want spend a fortune on revives to push through it, won't be able to... which I don't see kabam doing

    I like the idea of limiting revives on future content. We’ve actually seen this with recent SQ objectives where we need to solo bosses.

    And I agree this doesn’t align with what we are all assuming is the driving factor of this change - to sell more units/revives.

    Perhaps future Everest content uses some special revive that is only obtainable through units? Think something like Abyss specific revives.
    Yeah something like that could work. Only allowed to use *20 revives (level 1 or 2) bur you can buy quest specific revives for units and use an unlimited amount of them
This discussion has been closed.