Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

DNA3000 · March 2023

Truthseeker said:
When is it coming? And are drop rates already down?

The announcement says that the changes should be coming in the April game update.

Moosetiptronic · March 2023

DNA3000 said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

But the real noticeable thing was how "easy" EoP was described as being compared to SoP. In real terms, EoP was much more difficult than SoP. But the attitude was almost completely reversed in the interval between the two. SoP was treated as something if you couldn't do, you just weren't good enough. EoP was often described as something everyone should be able to do (within the target audience of course), unless they were unwilling to put in the time to get it done.

The potion arms race has been going on for a very long time: that's not new. What I think is new is that farming finally won outright.
A couple factors at play there. The vocal minority on YouTube, Twitter, and here misrepresent the difficulty of content. "It was pretty easy. It only took like 3000 units and I was able to get my 34th rank 4 with the rewards" or "It wasn't so bad, I just farmed a couple hundred revives in the middle of the work day (so I could record a perfect run for my channel or plow through it for maximum Day 1 views)."
The overstatement of the power of Hercules. "Just use Hercules. What? You died? With Hercules? You're hopeless, I guess." Hercules is the next "Just Quake it" "Just Ghost it" "Just Corvus it" "Just Aegon it" "Just Scarlet Witch it"
This observation is not the problem. Whether people complain about something is in and of itself not something I think is automatically actionable. Usually the opposite. Rather, this was a symptom of the larger problem: that farming revives created an atmosphere where this was both a problem unto itself and acting as the prevalent point of discussion, to the point of influencing more people who didn't know the full story.

We are, all of us who discuss the game publicly, a tiny, practically inconsequential minority of the full playerbase. Until we start to tilt the playing field in a direction. Nobody cares if twelve people on the forums thinks Star Lord is the best champ in the game. Until a few dozen people blindly follow them, and cause a few hundred friends and alliance mates to start chasing him, causing even more players to assume that where they go the herd should follow.

We only see the forums, the Reddit, the tiny tiny speck of tweets that float by. The devs see what all the thousands of players of the game are collectively doing. They also don't care what a few dozen people do, but they do care when they start to see the herd move.

It is also very hard to overstate the power of Hercules in this context. He is not the totality of the problem. However, for a lot of content the totality of the problem is that unlimited revives makes the impossible just expensive, and Hercules makes the expensive cheap. Unlimited revives is allowing people to take their math final home with them. Hercules is handing them a calculator with the test before they leave.

On the Hercules claim, this is overstated, to the point of my almost using an old English phase and getting banned....

To 100% EOP, i agree. For all eop challenges to date? He didn't meet any objectives, perhaps 1 I think? So he was useless for those.

To do Carina v3, which is where the real meat lies, herc simply reduced the revive count from 90 to 50. You can't do a single Carina v3 with herc.

It's a revive fest.

Herc is the twat outside the exam claiming it's easy, right before you go in to physics finals. Try a v3 and you'll see what I mean.

Jefechuta · March 2023

D_Rock86 said:
Using your words against you.. it’s a loophole that we can spam revives.. but buying UNLIMITED revives isn’t a loophole? Maybe set a limit to how many people can buy?

How are we supposed to clear content that takes 50 revives when the stash limit is 15? And the 4 crystals drop 1 revive every 200 crystals.. maybe make this much larger so we can save over months to clear content?

What if you actually look at the health potions, take some basic math classes and realize they are worthless with R4 6* or higher. An entire stash of potions to heal 1 champ.

So many on the verge of quitting. Please stop making this decision easier for us.

I usually have between 20 to 30 Lvl1 and 2 Revives without counting on stash on lvl 1 ones, which would maybe make it up to 40, and I dont farm revives, and I dont even redeem more than 2 4h Crystals a day.

I dont think it would be that terrible to spend maybe 400 more units on revives for a EoP/Carina's Challenge reward.

Thats what people used to do before, you didnt have revive farm, you would farm units and health potions to be able to do a good run of determinated content, if you not enough maybe spend 5 or 10$/€ on the game to buy some more revives if it was very difficult.

I think the people that are complaining got too used to just farming revives to do hard content effortless, hard content is to be done in either various tries or spending units, and thats it, you want to keep your units for 4th July offers? Well thats your decission, but if you want to do hard content you need resources, the fact that Kabam let players exploit revive farming doesnt mean it is how it should work.

Im the first one that would critize Kabam, but this is not a catastrophe, it is a good change to balance the game, obviously nobody likes to get less from something, they did the same with Arenas in 2015/2016 and I didnt like it because it would be harder to get champs from Arenas, but it was a good change to balance the game, same with this one.

Vydra · March 2023

DNA3000 said:

Vydra said:

DNA3000 said:

Vydra said:
They don’t care about you and the others who barely touch the content they put out. Because even if this change goes through, your player base will continue to remain stagnant or possibly call it quits.
This gets into Kafkaesque territory. The change targets farming revives. I know what content I've done and I know what I've done to complete it, and I'm not going to shift the discussion towards a defense of playstyle. If you think this change doesn't affect me, you're just wrong. If you think the change *shouldn't* affect me or attempting to lay a childish trap along those lines, I'm not biting.
I didn’t say it shouldn’t affect you. All I said was, there are players in different player bases above you that will be affected on a much bigger scale. Do read the line I said that your “target group” will continue to stagnate or quit. That’s still affecting you guys. Don’t tell me this change is suddenly going to push you to attempt Abyss or whatever; if anything it pushes you away further.

This is still in line with the assumption you made about how you are *the* targetted player, *the* player base that will be impacted the most and as well as yourself going as far as segregating whales and how the average player plays(in other posts) - hence me stating the groups, but suddenly you don’t want to acknowledge that. It’s certainly isn’t the case and I had to shoot down that dangerous misconception you put out.
There is only one group that will be affected by the change: the players who revive farm to complete content. You can dice them up any way you like to try to make the case that some of them are "affected more" but I won't. We're all in the same boat, from people struggling to complete Carinas to people struggling to beat the Collector. Maybe you see yourself as having the superior struggle, and thus the superior perspective, and the superior ownership of the problem. Maybe you think because it affects your problems but you had no issues with the problems other players face, their problems are lesser. Frankly, I don't know and I at the moment I don't care.

Members of my "target group" may or may not quit. But I've outlasted all the other people making that claim before, and I'm confident I'll do so again, with my stagnant account falling farther and farther behind all the other accounts who have vastly stronger rosters than I have and have progressed far beyond me in content.

And one more thing. There are players like me that regularly farm revives to complete content. However, I *also* belong to a different group of players, because I'm more than one thing. The group that likes challenges. Doing EoP in four revives is not a challenge when everyone else is blasting through it with twelve. If everyone else is going to blast through it, so will I, and I will spend my valuable time elsewhere. But when SoP first came out, I spend a *ton* of time trying to do it itemless. To the point of doing completely crazy things, and not always successfully. But before it was fashionable to simply smoke the content because everyone should be able to do so, I spent dozens of hours trying to get the solo, because it was fun. Because it was uncommon, because I didn't feel like I was wasting my time on a trivial exercise. I didn't feel that way with EoP, because by the time EoP rolled around, people were treating EoP like a broken ATM. It was much harder, and it would have taken tremendous effort for someone of my skill level to even attempt it. It wasn't worth it.

Maybe with revive farming gone, it will become worth it again. Maybe challenge content will no longer be designed to be revive-fests when most people can't simply throw unlimited revives at the content. Maybe they will return to being designed for players who want a challenge. There are a lot of us out there, but most of us are not stupid enough to express that thought on the forums in a controversial thread. A lot of the time, it is just me.

Maybe that's what bothers you the most, and maybe that's why you have to put yourself into a privileged spot in the aggrieved hierarchy. You don't think with revive farming gone, players won't be unable to do the next Carinas. You're worried they will. You just won't be one of them.

We'll see. If you're still around then.

“There is only one group that will be affected by the change: the players who revive farm to complete content”

Your first sentence alone is a massive 180 to the post I initially replied to where you claimed you are *the* targetted player that will be impacted the most LOL. Keep it consistent.

Anyway, what I did with the groups was a simple market segmentation of the MCOC player base. Like it or not, it’s actually a thing that happens in any consumer base. It’s no different with this game and how the different segments of the player base reacts to these changes and how they approach future content.

You said it yourself that you felt high tier content was feeling out of reach for sometime now. And you having “fun” while trying to figure out how to solo SOP is pretty much a personal choice and a choice that is considered by many but disregarded when the big picture of keeping up in the game is considered. It’s not fair for you to preface what “fun” should be. For some, “fun” is opening rewards, for others “fun” is finishing content and accruing key account progression

“Maybe with revive farming gone, it will become worth it again. Maybe challenge content will no longer be designed to be revive-fests when most people can't simply throw unlimited revives at the content. Maybe they will return to being designed for players who want a challenge. There are a lot of us out there, but most of us are not stupid enough to express that thought on the forums in a controversial thread. A lot of the time, it is just me.“

This paragraph a 50/50 for me. It’s likely possible we may not have content designed to “revive spam”, at least you admit that the content out lately has been ridiculously tough to the point where it’s a necessity to revive spam.

And if that’s going to happen, I can guarantee you “revive spam” will still be a thing because players will hoard revives, free crystals, units, Odins and refills to farm in acts beyond Act 3 because “non revive spam” content = low no. of revives and still means players over prepare to get it done ASAP and on first try. And of course, this is assuming Kabam aren’t bold enough to introduce an item cap which directly addresses the issues of “revive spam”.

“Maybe that's what bothers you the most, and maybe that's why you have to put yourself into a privileged spot in the aggrieved hierarchy. You don't think with revive farming gone, players won't be unable to do the next Carinas. You're worried they will. You just won't be one of them.“

Maybe, possibly but that’s just a cheap shot you’ve made out of spite. In all of the responses I’ve made, I don’t think I’ve yet shared my personal stance so that’s sadly yet another assumption made. And ironically, what bothers me the most doesn’t have anything to do with revive spam LOL

Certainly isn’t an issue that will drive me out, been around since the game was launched. If anything, I have already witnessed the most resilient of players eventually break down and leave throughout the time I have played. What will drive me out though, is the cheating issues that’s gotten so much worse this year and something tells me we haven’t seen the worst of it but that’s another story for another thread or bereaved youtube comment section or LINE chat.

BigPoppaCBONE · March 2023

DNA3000 said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

But the real noticeable thing was how "easy" EoP was described as being compared to SoP. In real terms, EoP was much more difficult than SoP. But the attitude was almost completely reversed in the interval between the two. SoP was treated as something if you couldn't do, you just weren't good enough. EoP was often described as something everyone should be able to do (within the target audience of course), unless they were unwilling to put in the time to get it done.

The potion arms race has been going on for a very long time: that's not new. What I think is new is that farming finally won outright.
A couple factors at play there. The vocal minority on YouTube, Twitter, and here misrepresent the difficulty of content. "It was pretty easy. It only took like 3000 units and I was able to get my 34th rank 4 with the rewards" or "It wasn't so bad, I just farmed a couple hundred revives in the middle of the work day (so I could record a perfect run for my channel or plow through it for maximum Day 1 views)."
The overstatement of the power of Hercules. "Just use Hercules. What? You died? With Hercules? You're hopeless, I guess." Hercules is the next "Just Quake it" "Just Ghost it" "Just Corvus it" "Just Aegon it" "Just Scarlet Witch it"
This observation is not the problem. Whether people complain about something is in and of itself not something I think is automatically actionable. Usually the opposite. Rather, this was a symptom of the larger problem: that farming revives created an atmosphere where this was both a problem unto itself and acting as the prevalent point of discussion, to the point of influencing more people who didn't know the full story.

We are, all of us who discuss the game publicly, a tiny, practically inconsequential minority of the full playerbase. Until we start to tilt the playing field in a direction. Nobody cares if twelve people on the forums thinks Star Lord is the best champ in the game. Until a few dozen people blindly follow them, and cause a few hundred friends and alliance mates to start chasing him, causing even more players to assume that where they go the herd should follow.

We only see the forums, the Reddit, the tiny tiny speck of tweets that float by. The devs see what all the thousands of players of the game are collectively doing. They also don't care what a few dozen people do, but they do care when they start to see the herd move.

It is also very hard to overstate the power of Hercules in this context. He is not the totality of the problem. However, for a lot of content the totality of the problem is that unlimited revives makes the impossible just expensive, and Hercules makes the expensive cheap. Unlimited revives is allowing people to take their math final home with them. Hercules is handing them a calculator with the test before they leave.

The people that talk about the game here, or on Reddit, on Line, on Discord, on YouTube, or on Twitter, or wherever also talk outside of those places and to alliance mates.
Somehow word of the revive spots hit the street, if we're assuming that the numbers Kabam gave are meant to be impressively large and indicative of a widespread long-term issue and not a brief "local" to the forums spike. I wonder how bad it can be when people still have to ask where the revive spots are and don't know how to reset the quest.
The myth of Hercules heh has people using him when they should use someone else. Taking him into an ill-advised matchup, people will praise him when they only barely eked out a win because they had on the team Heimdall as well.
Anyway, I'm interested in seeing who will come up next and make people forget about Hercules like they did ol whatshisname that could do the thing.

Abk_118 · March 2023

I suppose you can blame YouTubers for advertising reviving farming and making the whole world know about it. A little bit like the alt gifting for Xmas event.. I hope all the likes and subscribers was worth ruining the good times for everyone..

Spaec · March 2023

DNA3000 said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

DNA3000 said:

But the real noticeable thing was how "easy" EoP was described as being compared to SoP. In real terms, EoP was much more difficult than SoP. But the attitude was almost completely reversed in the interval between the two. SoP was treated as something if you couldn't do, you just weren't good enough. EoP was often described as something everyone should be able to do (within the target audience of course), unless they were unwilling to put in the time to get it done.

The potion arms race has been going on for a very long time: that's not new. What I think is new is that farming finally won outright.
A couple factors at play there. The vocal minority on YouTube, Twitter, and here misrepresent the difficulty of content. "It was pretty easy. It only took like 3000 units and I was able to get my 34th rank 4 with the rewards" or "It wasn't so bad, I just farmed a couple hundred revives in the middle of the work day (so I could record a perfect run for my channel or plow through it for maximum Day 1 views)."
The overstatement of the power of Hercules. "Just use Hercules. What? You died? With Hercules? You're hopeless, I guess." Hercules is the next "Just Quake it" "Just Ghost it" "Just Corvus it" "Just Aegon it" "Just Scarlet Witch it"
It is also very hard to overstate the power of Hercules in this context. He is not the totality of the problem. However, for a lot of content the totality of the problem is that unlimited revives makes the impossible just expensive, and Hercules makes the expensive cheap. Unlimited revives is allowing people to take their math final home with them. Hercules is handing them a calculator with the test before they leave.

Very apt analogy, because a very long time ago, calculators in maths tests might have been seen as cheating. When I was at school, about 20 years ago, calculators were seen as entirely normal to use during tests and the tests were designed around them. This is what happens with power creep in games, the new content is designed around the power creep, and to complain about revive farming is just silly. Like complaining about kids today using calculators in their exams.

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Spaec said:

GroundedWisdom said:
They mentioned they're discussing the Inventory caps, but I think it's worth noting these things aren't exactly a democracy. People express their feelings on it and what I've seen over the years is Kabam does the best they can to accommodate those concerns, as much as their own objectives and goals will allow. From time to time, something is not wanted but necessary. It's not always about what's popularly accepted.
Whatever their objectives are (I will assume it's to make money), they need to achieve them for this to be a success. If this doesn't make them more money then it's a failure. If this is unpopular enough, it will cost them money, not gain them money. It's possible for a gameplay change to be so unpopular that it reduces the money the company makes. This should be obvious. It should also be obvious by now that this idea is unpopular enough to do that.

Anytime there is something that the Players dub "pro-player", and it's changed, the reasoning is implied that it's somehow financial. I'd be daft to say that monetary value isn't an aspect that goes into these things because the depreciation of their product is a factor. However, when it comes to leaking Resources, there's much more than just making money to consider. The Developers aren't even thinking in terms of dollar signs simply because that's not their wheelhouse. They're considering the overall design aspects and the objectives of existing and future content. Not how to squeeze a few extra dollars from Players. The reasoning is what's been given. It wasn't intended to be an endless supply for late-stage Players, and that puts a strain on the content they can release and meet their objectives.

rx_placebo1 · March 2023

I agree most of the community farm hard core. I also disagree that new method makes any sense. Please meet us halfway I've seen to many people through the years quit b/c of smaller issues. There is no need if we come to a reasonable solution. Thanks

KingInBlack · March 2023

Spaec said:

GroundedWisdom said:
They mentioned they're discussing the Inventory caps, but I think it's worth noting these things aren't exactly a democracy. People express their feelings on it and what I've seen over the years is Kabam does the best they can to accommodate those concerns, as much as their own objectives and goals will allow. From time to time, something is not wanted but necessary. It's not always about what's popularly accepted.
Whatever their objectives are (I will assume it's to make money), they need to achieve them for this to be a success. If this doesn't make them more money then it's a failure. If this is unpopular enough, it will cost them money, not gain them money. It's possible for a gameplay change to be so unpopular that it reduces the money the company makes. This should be obvious. It should also be obvious by now that this idea is unpopular enough to do that.

It's crazy they don't see that. I have a former ally mate, top of the game player who's left a couple times and always came back. Believe it or not he just deleted the game and Line altogether yesterday. I'm not outright quitting here and now but my play time is already well down from what it once was and this feels like a damn good starting point to make my exit too. The obvious thing being ignored here is this is a video game meant for leisure time. I don't want to be stressed out trying to play a game and the devs for whatever reason (to encourage spending obviously) feel like all the best changes are the ones that promote stress and lessen enjoyment.

D_Rock86 · March 2023

Jefechuta said:

D_Rock86 said:
Using your words against you.. it’s a loophole that we can spam revives.. but buying UNLIMITED revives isn’t a loophole? Maybe set a limit to how many people can buy?

How are we supposed to clear content that takes 50 revives when the stash limit is 15? And the 4 crystals drop 1 revive every 200 crystals.. maybe make this much larger so we can save over months to clear content?

What if you actually look at the health potions, take some basic math classes and realize they are worthless with R4 6* or higher. An entire stash of potions to heal 1 champ.

So many on the verge of quitting. Please stop making this decision easier for us.
I usually have between 20 to 30 Lvl1 and 2 Revives without counting on stash on lvl 1 ones, which would maybe make it up to 40, and I dont farm revives, and I dont even redeem more than 2 4h Crystals a day.

I dont think it would be that terrible to spend maybe 400 more units on revives for a EoP/Carina's Challenge reward.

Thats what people used to do before, you didnt have revive farm, you would farm units and health potions to be able to do a good run of determinated content, if you not enough maybe spend 5 or 10$/€ on the game to buy some more revives if it was very difficult.

I think the people that are complaining got too used to just farming revives to do hard content effortless, hard content is to be done in either various tries or spending units, and thats it, you want to keep your units for 4th July offers? Well thats your decission, but if you want to do hard content you need resources, the fact that Kabam let players exploit revive farming doesnt mean it is how it should work.

Im the first one that would critize Kabam, but this is not a catastrophe, it is a good change to balance the game, obviously nobody likes to get less from something, they did the same with Arenas in 2015/2016 and I didnt like it because it would be harder to get champs from Arenas, but it was a good change to balance the game, same with this one.

Did they make content harder knowing we have a source for revives? Which came first?

The stash limits are ****.

And the lack of potion effectiveness is an issue.

It’s not just they are taking the source away, it’s that they can’t seem to fix anything. Consistently do things to make our life harder than it should be. This game is supposed to be fun. It hasn’t been in a long time.

SgtBallcrusher · March 2023

Not to mention potions are not percentage based

Scopeotoe987 · March 2023

How many players does mcoc have that 100k to 300k revives are farmed daily? If revive farming is dead, how do we handle content like Carinas Volume 1 where we’re expected to use 60 to 80 revives using 4*s in LOL???

Wiredawg1 · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Spaec said:

GroundedWisdom said:
They mentioned they're discussing the Inventory caps, but I think it's worth noting these things aren't exactly a democracy. People express their feelings on it and what I've seen over the years is Kabam does the best they can to accommodate those concerns, as much as their own objectives and goals will allow. From time to time, something is not wanted but necessary. It's not always about what's popularly accepted.
Whatever their objectives are (I will assume it's to make money), they need to achieve them for this to be a success. If this doesn't make them more money then it's a failure. If this is unpopular enough, it will cost them money, not gain them money. It's possible for a gameplay change to be so unpopular that it reduces the money the company makes. This should be obvious. It should also be obvious by now that this idea is unpopular enough to do that.
Anytime there is something that the Players dub "pro-player", and it's changed, the reasoning is implied that it's somehow financial. I'd be daft to say that monetary value isn't an aspect that goes into these things because the depreciation of their product is a factor. However, when it comes to leaking Resources, there's much more than just making money to consider. The Developers aren't even thinking in terms of dollar signs simply because that's not their wheelhouse. They're considering the overall design aspects and the objectives of existing and future content. Not how to squeeze a few extra dollars from Players. The reasoning is what's been given. It wasn't intended to be an endless supply for late-stage Players, and that puts a strain on the content they can release and meet their objectives.

Because it is in fact about money dude. We don’t want you farming 100s of revives to mass spam those revives in content. In no way shape or form has kabam said a damn word about people or anyone mass spamming revives they buy with units. So yea it’s about money.

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Wiredawg1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Spaec said:

GroundedWisdom said:
They mentioned they're discussing the Inventory caps, but I think it's worth noting these things aren't exactly a democracy. People express their feelings on it and what I've seen over the years is Kabam does the best they can to accommodate those concerns, as much as their own objectives and goals will allow. From time to time, something is not wanted but necessary. It's not always about what's popularly accepted.
Whatever their objectives are (I will assume it's to make money), they need to achieve them for this to be a success. If this doesn't make them more money then it's a failure. If this is unpopular enough, it will cost them money, not gain them money. It's possible for a gameplay change to be so unpopular that it reduces the money the company makes. This should be obvious. It should also be obvious by now that this idea is unpopular enough to do that.
Anytime there is something that the Players dub "pro-player", and it's changed, the reasoning is implied that it's somehow financial. I'd be daft to say that monetary value isn't an aspect that goes into these things because the depreciation of their product is a factor. However, when it comes to leaking Resources, there's much more than just making money to consider. The Developers aren't even thinking in terms of dollar signs simply because that's not their wheelhouse. They're considering the overall design aspects and the objectives of existing and future content. Not how to squeeze a few extra dollars from Players. The reasoning is what's been given. It wasn't intended to be an endless supply for late-stage Players, and that puts a strain on the content they can release and meet their objectives.
Because it is in fact about money dude. We don’t want you farming 100s of revives to mass spam those revives in content. In no way shape or form has kabam said a damn word about people or anyone mass spamming revives they buy with units. So yea it’s about money.

Money is a natural limitation. Everyone speaks of money as if it's an unlimited resource just because we *can* buy as much as we choose, but the amount of people who have the financial freedom to spend that much on a game are very few and far between in the grand scheme of things. The majority of people are average spenders, with a variation of range in that. Some a few bucks here and there, some monthly or annually, some go into the thousands. Personally, I've probably spent about 5k over 7 years, give or take.
The amount of people who can go ham with it is not a great number, and I suspect they would know this, given the numbers they have. I don't know why there's this great disdain for that fact. People spend and we have a game.
I have yet to see a piece of content that is permanent that demands Players MUST spend to do it. It doesn't exist. It might take saving, it might take forethought, it might take Grinding, and it might take patience. It doesn't take spending as a mandatory requirement.

Wiredawg1 · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:

Wiredawg1 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Spaec said:

GroundedWisdom said:
They mentioned they're discussing the Inventory caps, but I think it's worth noting these things aren't exactly a democracy. People express their feelings on it and what I've seen over the years is Kabam does the best they can to accommodate those concerns, as much as their own objectives and goals will allow. From time to time, something is not wanted but necessary. It's not always about what's popularly accepted.
Whatever their objectives are (I will assume it's to make money), they need to achieve them for this to be a success. If this doesn't make them more money then it's a failure. If this is unpopular enough, it will cost them money, not gain them money. It's possible for a gameplay change to be so unpopular that it reduces the money the company makes. This should be obvious. It should also be obvious by now that this idea is unpopular enough to do that.
Anytime there is something that the Players dub "pro-player", and it's changed, the reasoning is implied that it's somehow financial. I'd be daft to say that monetary value isn't an aspect that goes into these things because the depreciation of their product is a factor. However, when it comes to leaking Resources, there's much more than just making money to consider. The Developers aren't even thinking in terms of dollar signs simply because that's not their wheelhouse. They're considering the overall design aspects and the objectives of existing and future content. Not how to squeeze a few extra dollars from Players. The reasoning is what's been given. It wasn't intended to be an endless supply for late-stage Players, and that puts a strain on the content they can release and meet their objectives.
Because it is in fact about money dude. We don’t want you farming 100s of revives to mass spam those revives in content. In no way shape or form has kabam said a damn word about people or anyone mass spamming revives they buy with units. So yea it’s about money.
Money is a natural limitation. Everyone speaks of money as if it's an unlimited resource just because we *can* buy as much as we choose, but the amount of people who have the financial freedom to spend that much on a game are very few and far between in the grand scheme of things. The majority of people are average spenders, with a variation of range in that. Some a few bucks here and there, some monthly or annually, some go into the thousands. Personally, I've probably spent about 5k over 7 years, give or take.
The amount of people who can go ham with it is not a great number, and I suspect they would know this, given the numbers they have. I don't know why there's this great disdain for that fact. People spend and we have a game.
I have yet to see a piece of content that is permanent that demands Players MUST spend to do it. It doesn't exist. It might take saving, it might take forethought, it might take Grinding, and it might take patience. It doesn't take spending as a mandatory requirement.

There isn’t disdain regarding spending by most people. The disdain in the thread regarding this is because of kabam and people like you who say it’s not about money. When in fact it is.

If you say you have an issue regarding people who spam revives on content. It should not matter where those revives come from rather it from farming or by units which 90% of units is from buying. But if you say you have an issue with mass spamming of revives that are farmed but say zero about the mass spamming of revives that are bought with units. That is where people are saying it’s about money.

And kabam and you forget something also. Regardless if you are spending money to buy em or spending time to farm em. You are still spending. There is 2 sayings regarding this. Time is money. And people’s time is just as valuable as money.

I have zero issue with kabam making a quest to get revives I honestly don’t. My issue is it should not be limited to 1 20% revive every day for 6 days and I also have an issue with kabam being hypercrits. You can’t sit there and say we don’t want you to farm revives where it based on rng. Then turn around and say we are giving you this quest 1 guaranteed with a 1% chance at another 20% and 5% on a 40%. That is rng based. That is being hypocritical. That’s where the disdain is. Inventory cap should of been increased on em a long time ago. And for em to say oh that may be the compromise is a load of bull you know what

Wiredawg1 · March 2023

And your comment on must spend to do it. Are you forgetting the 3 lab carina challenges with 4*s? There is not a single player in this game that did any of those 3 with out some sort of spending rather is money on units or time farming. I did all 3. And the only one I ever came close to not using revives on some fights is the sabretooth one after he is max build up to 30 furies. But all 3 you spent revives on. The SL being the one you spent the most on because again rng with Maestro advantage on tech. 75% of the revives I spent on just him was his rng in getting regen.

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.

Wiredawg1 · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.

Yes they can grind units in arena. But guess what? Arena crystals are what you know rng based. I use to be a die hard arena grinder. I’ll admit I was. I stopped after kabam started to comp players who got well screwed by modders, mercs and botters. They went thru that list 1 time. And all the cryers who cried about the 16 mil milestones. Which kabam really should look into going back to. And taking all the units out of basic and feature and sticking em in trials was the wrong move as far as I was concerned and other grinders I talked to. The feature milestone there was nothing wrong with where was. To all the ones I talked to the basic arena was the issue. That one should have been adjusted and points should have been what they are on Sundays. The arena to this day is still full of modders, mercs and botters and kabam really does not care to do anything about em in that area of the game

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

Modders in the Arena really have no effect on people doing Milestones in each Arena. It takes very little effort to do some in each. You also cash in on Arena Wins, and get another Rev and 25 Units.
The game has Resources. What people don't have, is patience. They want to do it as fast as possible. That's why people were amassing Revs from Auto. It was easy Revs, for little effort.
Let me put it in other terms. I open a candy shop. I give free samples of candy, so I can encourage business and welcome new customers. Some people take some candy, and don't come back. Some do, and end up buying (playing). If someone comes back 300 times with a bag, they're not buying. They're making a meal out of the free candy.

GroundedWisdom · March 2023

They can say my candy is overpriced, they can say the sugar content is too high, they can say it's my fault for giving them the free candy. Sooner or later, I'm not going to give them any more candy because they've found a loophole to undermine the value of my candy.

Rick_1 · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.

The thing is arena is the most mind numbing game mode ever and to have to sit through that for countless hours just to get to the fun part of actually doing the quest defeats the purpose of playing a game.

Sunstruck · March 2023

I don't understand why people reply someone. Let him put his point of view multiple times. Just ignore him. Raise your concern and what you think of this Kabam new upcoming updates. As I already mentioned Kabam please take a look. Better create a poll and send in game notifications. Put some solutions as options. You will get your answer.

Jefechuta · March 2023

D_Rock86 said:

Jefechuta said:

D_Rock86 said:
Using your words against you.. it’s a loophole that we can spam revives.. but buying UNLIMITED revives isn’t a loophole? Maybe set a limit to how many people can buy?

How are we supposed to clear content that takes 50 revives when the stash limit is 15? And the 4 crystals drop 1 revive every 200 crystals.. maybe make this much larger so we can save over months to clear content?

What if you actually look at the health potions, take some basic math classes and realize they are worthless with R4 6* or higher. An entire stash of potions to heal 1 champ.

So many on the verge of quitting. Please stop making this decision easier for us.
I usually have between 20 to 30 Lvl1 and 2 Revives without counting on stash on lvl 1 ones, which would maybe make it up to 40, and I dont farm revives, and I dont even redeem more than 2 4h Crystals a day.

I dont think it would be that terrible to spend maybe 400 more units on revives for a EoP/Carina's Challenge reward.

Thats what people used to do before, you didnt have revive farm, you would farm units and health potions to be able to do a good run of determinated content, if you not enough maybe spend 5 or 10$/€ on the game to buy some more revives if it was very difficult.

I think the people that are complaining got too used to just farming revives to do hard content effortless, hard content is to be done in either various tries or spending units, and thats it, you want to keep your units for 4th July offers? Well thats your decission, but if you want to do hard content you need resources, the fact that Kabam let players exploit revive farming doesnt mean it is how it should work.

Im the first one that would critize Kabam, but this is not a catastrophe, it is a good change to balance the game, obviously nobody likes to get less from something, they did the same with Arenas in 2015/2016 and I didnt like it because it would be harder to get champs from Arenas, but it was a good change to balance the game, same with this one.
Did they make content harder knowing we have a source for revives? Which came first?

The stash limits are ****.

And the lack of potion effectiveness is an issue.

It’s not just they are taking the source away, it’s that they can’t seem to fix anything. Consistently do things to make our life harder than it should be. This game is supposed to be fun. It hasn’t been in a long time.

Thats the thing, Abyss came first, RoL came first, Laberinth came first, all we could do was prepare ourselves with revives, healths and units back then without that Revive Farming, I remember first time I did RoL with 4* stars, I did it with the revives and pots I could get and farmed units to buy more, like everyone else did, same with Labyrinth, and same with Abyss, the fact that now you could do it just farming on Acts 1 to 3 doesnt mean you cant do Everest Content without that, thats all the point, we will still be able to do EoP and Carinas with the resources we get playing normally and farming units, and thats just a fact because we already were able to do so, almost all the content I have done was without revive farming, I only did once because I wanted to do some content fast enough to get Paragon with the last R4 before month end to get the calendar, and thats it, I didnt farm since 2015 and I cleared content anyway non spending, so I dont think this will change enough to make content undoable, but the community will have to go back to times before act 1,2,3 revamp, thats all

Midknight007 · March 2023

There needs to be a middle ground where players feel like there is enough resources that are obtainable with a fair amount of time and or money.

1) Honestly, pots prices should be cheaper. They are outdated with 6*’s being so widely available. And prices should decrease as to acknowledge that for pots especially. Revives are flat percentages, so they retain value. That might make it less of a sting for most players to pay.

2) Extend the overflow expiration timers. If time or money is used, don’t squeeze the players to have to also worry about their stashes expiring when they will have to put a lot of time or money to obtain a resource. It is undo stress. This will allow them to acquire resources over time and not feel like they have to endlessly grind now to save up 80-100 revives.

3) Increase caps all around, and a lot more for sigil holders. They might make more money on the sigil and provide a real value for being a sigil holder. Besides the store that is in need of a refresh (especially on the rank up material). End game players don’t get enough low end resources to even buy half of the pots in the store and the timers are 1 month… reduce that.

4) Then make the drop rates of revives lower to deincentivize those abusing the content. Just don’t make it insanely low.

5) Apothecary is a nice idea, but maybe allow it to drop at a more reasonable rate for a second revive.

Also, while we are at it… pricing and/or the amount of health of AW/AQ pots and revives needs to be adjusted too. With 6*’s widely available, there needs to be a reduction in price and/or increase to the HP you get from using them. The 40% AW revives are nice, but with this change… I only imagine they plan on removing those soon.

Bash187 · March 2023

I wldnt mind them taking out revive farming if this AI wasn't so passive in every way or if the AI didn't do impossible blocks during mid combo, as of lately with how bad the AI has been, it always seems like we are playing at a disadvantage regardless of skill level

Chobbly · March 2023

Bash187 said:
I wldnt mind them taking out revive farming if this AI wasn't so passive in every way or if the AI didn't do impossible blocks during mid combo, as of lately with how bad the AI has been, it always seems like we are playing at a disadvantage regardless of skill level

I think there may be a stronger or more widely supported case if this was part of a number of measures, some pro-Kabam and some pro-Players designed to work together to rebalance the game.

If that is the case, then perhaps leading with that first might have helped the landing for this news a bit.

Mackey · March 2023

GroundedWisdom said:
Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.

So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena

Jefechuta · March 2023

Mackey said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Time is money....when people are milking a valuable Resource in the game that's meant to help newer Players? I find that to be a bit ignorant to the actual in-game value of those.
Also, someone can Grind the Units to do that with 0 dollars. So no one HAS to spend.
So what you're saying is, it's perfectly fine for one to grind area and farm units (let's be fair that's why people grind arena) and spam revives with the units but it's not OK for people to spend the same amount of time farming revives from 3.2.6?

You're going on like we hit 1 button to farm 1 revive in 3.2.6 when in reality it's not that fast. If we can't farm revives by ingame content then we shouldn't be allowed to farm the units in arena

Poor comparison, you can get much more revives farming on acts than playing arenas, way faster and easier since you can autofight.

The main fact that people is not acknowledging is how things are supposed to work, Act 1-3 are not meant to be reruned after explorations for farming, there are meant for new players to be done, so its fair that they nerf it so people that is not meant to do so stops doing it.

Arena is meant to be a farming place, thats why you get Battlechips for it, so you can farm gold and units.

Everest Content is meant to be hard and take time to be done, not only time but resources which would take either time or money to get, the fact that people do it the first day makes that Content design senseless, why would Kabam waste time and money on Everest Content if people would do it like any hard special SQ that we got, just because we are able to get unlimited revives just by one tap to start a quest, another to select a path, and the last one to Auto On, thats complete nonsense, its very fair from Kabam to remove this revive farming system.

If you want to do EoP, prepare your resources, if you dont have enough, farm them, but farm them properly, getting 2000 units worth revives completely effortless in 2 days its not farming, its an exploit.

And no, its not the same with people spending, if you farm, you do it for free for some weeks or months to do the Everest Content, if someone prefers to pay to speed up, thats okay because they pay money worth the time they would spend, you may not like it but it is fair and it is worth for Kabam, because doing this content isnt free either, and it takes time and resources, so if you are going to do in one day what is supposed to be done in one month of hard work, I see pretty fair to pay an amount of money for it.

And again, people are exagerating a lot, we still can farm revives from low levels acts and EQ, but its not that easy to get revives on those, thats all, we still have enough revives for doing the content without that, and again, this is not debatable, thats just a fact, you can be angry about it, but it is just true.

Removal of Revive Farming and the Apothecary Discussion

Comments