Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
Are you saying people should have access to 8 Odins worth of Revs? I understand that wasn't the main point of your comment, but the idea that Players should have for free what others pay for is just as questionable. People spend. They buy Units to save themselves the time it takes to grind and save. Some people have the money to do this, and some don't. That's a reality in this game as much as it is a reality in life. I can't go to a car dealership and ask for a faster way to get the car I want than working, just because some have money at their disposal.
Guys I just can't believe you can contradict yourself in literally 3 rows....
"Summoners are meant to have access to units that are provided in specific, measured ways; Summoners are not meant to have access to revives in the current, overtuned capacity."
Sure. Units can be provided in specific, measured ways. But you can literally buy 8 Odin's, then just buy revives from them. And here we are again at the overtuned capacity of revives.
You are really trying to avoid the phrase "as long as you pay for it, you are good", but its not really going well.
People seem to think there are two kinds of players: free to play, and the ultra rich that can spend unlimited amounts of money. People who spend are not all unlimited spenders.
Yes, there is a way to spend to buy revives, just as there is a way to spend to buy crystals or offers or almost everything else in the game. It isn't "fine" if players spend hundreds of dollars on unlimited revives to blast through content. But for most spending players, that cash has some sort of value. They are making a value choice when they decide to spend that cash. Just like non-spenders make when they decide to spend nothing.
The fact that someone can buy eight Odins doesn't mean all spenders do. They are forced to choose between spending to compete the content or not, and how much. That choice is part of how the game is monetized and supported.
Players also have the choice on whether to farm revives or not. But the choice to farm 3.2.6 was a trivial one compared to the choice on whether to spend hundreds of dollars or not. One of those choices benefits the game and contains a lot of friction to it for the vast majority of spenders. The other one is a trivial decision that has been ludicrously portrayed as being a significant burden, but which I consider to be comparable to the amount of effort required to keep my calendar progressing forward without losing rewards.
That's the difference. And if you think there's no difference, buy the eight Odins and your problem is solved.
The theme of the OG post in short is "with enough revives, you can brute force every content, so there is no point is harder content". But players always had access to unlimited revives - via units, whether that unit was earned or bought. Player could always brute force content with revives. Let me remind you: abyss came out well before the unintented revive farm. People brute forced it on livestreams, with odin-bought revives. But I don't remember if there was any scandal because of that. Revive prices weren't increased, consumable-usage wasn't limited, nothing. But as soon as players who doesn't have an abundance of money in their pocket have access to these revives, there comes a change. And not like these revives just happen to appear in your inventory. Basically you are exchanging your refills to revives, with the added extra of time spent in game, it being as long as it is.
So yes, I can't justify these reasonings for this change like "you never meant to have these amounts of revives" because it's just not true. Be the man and admit that "you never meant to have these amounts of revives, unless you pay for them" And yes, I understand kabam is a company, and they need money, that's totally OK, even I agree with that. But then don't be afraid to admit it, not try to hide behind fake truth.
Money is a limiting factor. On paper, you can buy whatever you want. In actuality, there aren't great numbers of people who have the money to do that. If you're implying it's unfair that people can spend as much as they want, then that's not something that can be resolved in the game. It's a business. They're not going to refuse legitimate funds.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
The solo event was a side hustle for getting a revive now it'll be a must if you want to get a more acceptable amount
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
People that were farming revives before still did the solo events, what? Do you think those were just irrelevant content before? And by definition this is a compromise.. originally we had to do more for less, now we still have to do more but it’s for more than what they previously offered (not more than the the original method, but more than their previous change idea).
Your arguments are seemingly based on a lack of understanding. I’m not sure if there’s a way to make you see what people are telling you.
Increase capacity further and greatly improve 4hr crystal revive rate. This is still unacceptable when you look at Carina challenge minimum requirements and bugs.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
The solo event was a side hustle for getting a revive now it'll be a must if you want to get a more acceptable amount
The problem is your definition of an “acceptable amount” is based off of a method of obtaining what were essentially unlimited revives, which did heavily trivialize everest content. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that Kabam’s compromise here is good enough. I think they have a ways to go. But the old method was definitely not healthy for the game.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
It's valuable because it means extra revives you can fill your inventory with , without flowing into stash
Please understand that the following comments are coming from a place of criticism and not antagonism.
Bluntly, the compromise isn't good enough. The changes to the inventory cap should have been implemented regardless of the community outrage. The apothecary appears to be in no way better than idle farming 3.2.6. The change from L1 to L2 for the 22 hour solo event is fine.
"Design Transparency" is transparent only in that it's obviously a mechanism to force summoners to use units to get through content. In no way is this less trivializing to "aspirational content" than the ability to replay early game content to stash revives. In fact, it's more so, because it means anyone willing to spend out of game currency can "unit-man" their way through any content, skill or no.
The community understands that MCOC can't be run for free, but what Kabam doesn't seem to understand is that when they antagonize the community base, those of us who are somewhere in between the strictly free to play summoners and the all out whale summoners are less likely to spend. It seems obvious to me that this is the demographic that the developers need most in order to flourish, and it's the demographic most likely to withhold their spending when the game has consistent issues that appear to be ignored like the control inputs and the obvious brazen cheating in Battlegrounds, the Arena, and now in March, in the Side Quest.
With those issues, making changes that antagonize the community like removing a source of consumables seems unwise. I've spent plenty of real world money in this game, but I've played for free since 2022 and until this culture of wringing the summoners for everything they're worth is changed, I'm not going to spend a dime. I'm not ready to stop playing, but I won't be getting a sigil or unit card or Spring Cleaning or 4th of July or anything in between.
"When we look to develop new endgame content, we set goals for that content. We set challenge goals: how hard should it be? We set progression goals: how powerful should Summoners have to be to tackle it and how powerful should they be once they complete it? We set time goals: how much active play time should it require and how many days/weeks/months should it take for Summoners at various progression tiers to complete it? And we set consumable goals: how many units, potions, revives, boosts, etc., do we expect players to use. "
So @Kabam Jax , would the design team be able to provide the aforemetioned goals for the following content? 1. Carina's vol 1: Miike's revenge, Dance off, O canada, Inhuman stamina (assuming all required champs available and at max rank and sig) 2. Carina's vol 2: Mutant domination, Carina's challengers, Revolution, (assuming all required champs at 6* R3 appropriate sig level) 3. All of Carina's vol 3 challenges (assuming all required champs available at 6* R4 appropriae sig level but no champ swap gate used.)
This would allow us players to see how realistic the new consumable economy update allows us to handle these types of content.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
Agreed. Setting aside what is 'acceptable number of revives', the New changes changes the calculus of energy.
Despite Energy remaining static this whole time, there is now the need to balance EQ + Apothecary +/- SQ (depending on month) +/- BG (depending on whether you use Elder Marks or not) + the official expectation that 22 h Event Completion is part of your Revive calculus.
There are no changes to how much energy refills one can typically get, so despite an increase to expected energy usage, one's energy and refills remain the same. This means there is an overall increase to energy demand, if you want to maximize your account's potential.
This feels kind of similar to how Kabam rolled out Paragon. They essentially included an Act completion offer as being part of the calculated sources of T6b/T3a, when those offers have never been included in the calculus.
Of course, people will argue that: (1) you don't have to do it (which is not a very useful argument, as it just ends the discussion without any counterpoint) (2) your revive-to-energy ratio was artificially inflated this whole time, so the New way is more realistic. Yes, but, that is a separate discussions.
Watching it now. Agree with pretty much everything he’s saying. Ultimately this change will be the equivalent of Kabam cutting its nose to spite its face. If they think this will result in overall net increase in revenue I think they are incredibly shortsighted. Kabam state that post act 8 or Everest content is at risk without the change as developing the content makes a net loss. Ok stop making anymore act content and stop making Everest content and see what happens to July 4, Cyber Weekend, Gifting event/banquet event, sales. If there is no new content to compete what is the point of spending at all? Maybe that’s the overall future direction, no more new content outside of MEQ and Side Events and the game focuses on Battle Grounds and AW as the soul reason to improve rosters.
Up until a month ago I personally spent on the daily deals, the weekly nexus deals that came up, the sigil, the monthly unit deals and then the sales through the year to top it all off as well. This game was a hobby to me I was hoping to come back to. So now is no more spending and I doubt based on kabams response I’ll ever pick the game up again. There is a lack of ownership and accountability to pushing out a fundamentally broken game and lack of acknowledgment this has for players. The input issues, at least when I last played was as bad as they have ever been. They may be a different set of bugs but it’s still broken and I’ve not seen anything to suggest it’s fixed. There is zero relief for this. Everything takes month and month and months to fix or implement. The mitigations for this debacle will take 6 months. My spending (peanuts to many, but also mountains more than FTP) was a way to develop my account, rank champions, get new champions to help beat end game content. Ok, so I wasn’t spending money on completing end game content as I was farming revives. Well Kabam, you’ll have stopped me farming ‘obscene’ numbers of revives so you’ll have met your objectives there. But you’ve lost all income from me, so overall that’s not a better position. Maybe other players will be different and they’ll play the game exactly in a way that conforms to achieving the devs goals. But from the comments I’ve seen I think there is a much bigger risk that people make a similar decision to me. Or maybe everyone else is so invested in there accounts after all these years there will be a bit of stampy feet from the community in the forums and then people go back to playing as normal.
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
The solo event was a side hustle for getting a revive now it'll be a must if you want to get a more acceptable amount
The problem is your definition of an “acceptable amount” is based off of a method of obtaining what were essentially unlimited revives, which did heavily trivialize everest content. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that Kabam’s compromise here is good enough. I think they have a ways to go. But the old method was definitely not healthy for the game.
That's an assumptions of yours, I don't base anything on the amount one could get from 3.2.6 .... I do think that having 200 revives is crazy, no way we should we be able to to power through a double vol 3 challenge with just juggs and 200 revives, thats absurd. In my eyes I think a reasonable amount would be 2 level 1 revives from the apothecary exploration, per day over the full week. Inventory caps have needed to be raised for a long time anyway so 20 is acceptable. Leave solo at level 1 or buff it to level 2 as a separate thing if they so wish but not as the compromise
So basically it's just another 2 revives per week in comparison to the original change announced 🤨
They literally said in the post that the individual changes seem small but combined they have a big impact, which is true. Did you just choose to skip over that bit or just choosing to only look at one change for some reason?
The biggest change is to the 22hr events being level 2, so we're no longer stockpiling one kind of revive but 2, so in essence doubling the amount of guaranteed revives we can stockpile (while also slightly increasing the cap, which is nice but not a huge deal). We're definitely worse off than before, but overall it's not a horrible compromise.
The solo event isn't guaranteed in the sense that apothecary is though, is it? You run 2 paths in Apothecary and get 1 revive per day guaranteed, solo events require much more time than that so can't be included as a guaranteed revive in the same way. Either way though you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo events if you do go for them ... which is the same quantity as before, just now you get a little more health (yay). If you're building up level 2s faster than before as a side effect of the solo event change then that means you're losing 1 level 1 revive at the same time
In the 22 hr solo events the revive shows up in milestone 3. For the arena event, that is 3750 points. 5* and 6* activity is going to be between 120 and 250 points per fight, or something like about 15 to 30 fights, or 5 to 10 arena rounds. That's reasonably achievable.
For the Level Up event that is 19360 points. Level up activity is in the range of 700 to 1k points per level for 5* and 6* champs, which is easily achievable with one level ups to max rank and some change.
For hero use it is 125000 points. The point range for typical activity with 5* and 6* champs is 2-4k points per fight, which implies something like 42 fights plus or minus. In terms of farming revives, this is also not an exceptional level of activity.
Event Quest requires 11700 points, which might be the trickiest one to sustain without very careful content management. It would be, say, six Uncollected EQ paths. If I was farming revives, this would be the one I would least be able to count on reliably. although one path to get this would be to do both paths of the expert proving grounds and both paths of the daily expert class quest, which would be 8400 of the 11700 points required. The rest could be gotten from normal monthly EQ activity.
Not once did I say it wasn't reasonably achievable. I was getting at that this Apothecary will take you what? About 5-7 mins to explore ... for the average endgame player?... I'll concede we don't and can't know the actual answer to this yet but at 11.5k team rating recommendation i think its a fair guess. The solo events take longer than that.
Also, let's not forget, the issues kabam had was the farming of acts 1-3 so their solution was to nerf them (in simple terms lol) and then give us that apothecary as a replacement farming method. Where has this solo event thing even come from? What's it got to do with the farming/apothecary issue. In my honest opinion I feel like they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes
The solo 22 hr events are these things:
They contain a level 1 revive (among other things) in milestone 3. That level 1 revive is being promoted to a level 2 revive in their announced changes.
I'm perfectly aware, but thanks for the clarification 👍Changing the revive from a level 1 to a level 2 isn't amazing like they're making it out to be, you're still only getting 1 revive from the solo event and as I keep saying the solo was not the issue.
I have no idea why you keep saying that. "Solo was not the issue." Nobody is saying it was. They are bufffing it to make it more useful within the context of revive farming. The question is why are you making this an issue?
I don't see it as more useful not unless the potion revise is significant as in % based ones. A revive is a revive
If you see L2 revives as identical in value to L1 revives and you see allowing players to fill two inventory slots instead of one as being not useful, then the announced changes will be meaningless to you. But they are also not targeted at players like yourself. The announced changes are targeted at players with more reasonable to accommodate value judgments.
20% 40% ... 1 combo in EoP is going to eat it regardless. That is after all the intended content (endgame) at which this whole thing originated around and continues to gravitate around. In EQ or story yes a 40% is more valuable
1 combo in EoP is going to eat an entire health bar in most situations so that's a pointless argument. 20% of health is substantial when it comes to taking hits into parried blocks, or is very nice to have when you plan on taking a champ higher in health since 20% equates to a lot of health pots on a boosted r3+ champ.
And you continue to skip over the main point in them doing this.. taking up 2 inventory slots instead of one, letting you double the amount you can hold at any one time. Even is L1 and L2 revives had the exact same value like you claim, does being able to hold 20 vs 40 revives without overflowing hold the same value to you?
If everyone who farmed 3.2.6 ensured that they ticked the solo event everyday then yes this is a good thing but it is contigent on the solo event been done otherwise its not much of an improvement. Its a guaranteed increase of 2 revives from the apothecary in comparison to the original announcement. If you don't actively try to do the solo events then there is no 2nd slot you're filling
If you’re not willing to do some solo events to prep for everest content then you shouldn’t be commenting on the change anyway. Then you’re just biased towards wanting end game rewards to be handed to you.
I don't want rewards handed to me, I want consistency. Old way : farm 3.2.6. Initial new way : farm apothecary once a day. Compromise of new way : farm apothecary and ensure you do the solo events. They're telling us we now need to do more than their initial proposal if we want more revives. When every man and his dog (bar a few) was asking for them to increase the rewards to something more acceptable. This is, in a way, more acceptable but you have to do more to get it which isn't a compromise imo
People that were farming revives before still did the solo events, what? Do you think those were just irrelevant content before? And by definition this is a compromise.. originally we had to do more for less, now we still have to do more but it’s for more than what they previously offered (not more than the the original method, but more than their previous change idea).
Your arguments are seemingly based on a lack of understanding. I’m not sure if there’s a way to make you see what people are telling you.
I'm saying not everyone did/does the solo events, now in order to have the compromise one has to do them. So how is that a compromise to those who don't do EQ or those who don't do arena?
Watching it now. Agree with pretty much everything he’s saying. Ultimately this change will be the equivalent of Kabam cutting its nose to spite its face. If they think this will result in overall net increase in revenue I think they are incredibly shortsighted. Kabam state that post act 8 or Everest content is at risk without the change as developing the content makes a net loss. Ok stop making anymore act content and stop making Everest content and see what happens to July 4, Cyber Weekend, Gifting event/banquet event, sales. If there is no new content to compete what is the point of spending at all? Maybe that’s the overall future direction, no more new content outside of MEQ and Side Events and the game focuses on Battle Grounds and AW as the soul reason to improve rosters.
Up until a month ago I personally spent on the daily deals, the weekly nexus deals that came up, the sigil, the monthly unit deals and then the sales through the year to top it all off as well. This game was a hobby to me I was hoping to come back to. So now is no more spending and I doubt based on kabams response I’ll ever pick the game up again. There is a lack of ownership and accountability to pushing out a fundamentally broken game and lack of acknowledgment this has for players. The input issues, at least when I last played was as bad as they have ever been. They may be a different set of bugs but it’s still broken and I’ve not seen anything to suggest it’s fixed. There is zero relief for this. Everything takes month and month and months to fix or implement. The mitigations for this debacle will take 6 months. My spending (peanuts to many, but also mountains more than FTP) was a way to develop my account, rank champions, get new champions to help beat end game content. Ok, so I wasn’t spending money on completing end game content as I was farming revives. Well Kabam, you’ll have stopped me farming ‘obscene’ numbers of revives so you’ll have met your objectives there. But you’ve lost all income from me, so overall that’s not a better position. Maybe other players will be different and they’ll play the game exactly in a way that conforms to achieving the devs goals. But from the comments I’ve seen I think there is a much bigger risk that people make a similar decision to me. Or maybe everyone else is so invested in there accounts after all these years there will be a bit of stampy feet from the community in the forums and then people go back to playing as normal.
But what's the point of endgame content if it can be powered through in a week because you can just farm up unlimited revives when it's announced, only for the community to then get bored a month later and start complaining that they want more everest content to do? I posted this on KTs video, but posting here too to get people's thoughts.
Preface with I don't think Kabam's compromise here is enough, it can still use some work. But do people really think that the previous method of unlimited revives was healthy for the game?
Looking at this update purely on paper, you'd be able to farm ~60 revives a month, not taking into account any received from daily/4 hr crystals or any other weekly events, and assuming no units from said events are going towards revives. 60 revives, for your average skilled player, would probably get you more than enough for one carina's challenge. There are 6 v3 carina's challenges. So we're talking an average of 6 months to do all of the challenges, while likely retaining a few of those revives each month for random EQ slip ups and such. Is that such a bad thing?
What happened with Carina's v3, and what has happened for a very long time in this game, is people would farm up literally 100s of revives over the course of a few weeks when everest content is announced, then proceed to use those revives to knock out the entirety of that content within the first week it's out. Then proceed to complain that the game doesn't have any new everest content for the next 6 months. How is this healthy? How is this fair of a player base to do? In most games, endgame content is supposed to give longevity to a game, it's supposed to be done over the course of time while more content is developed. MCoC playerbase has used this unlimited revive method for a long time to ignore that and just do the content immediately, while also complaining about wanting more content. That's the part I'm having a hard time accepting.
if you want consistent content to do, and want them to continue developing it properly, does it really not make sense to people to remove that old method? Again, I don't think the current plan is quite good enough. Hopefully more work is done on this. But looking at this logically instead of "fanatic player base that hates change wahh", does this really not make sense?
I think, on the whole this is a much more well thought out change and much more professionally delivered justification for the changes. The clear and transparent reasons are explained well in a method that I can accept (tolerate may be a better word) the changes from how the information was delivered. It’s not the compromise I would have pushed for but it is a compromise that does address certain aspects in a pro player way. The L2 revive was a nice unexpected touch.
That said, it’s misguided to see that the original solution which was disappointing to say the least will still be implemented on the original timetable. I’m not optimistic about when the changes I can agree with as an acceptable compromise will be delivered on in the current trust environment will be implemented and because of trust being at an all time low for myself and many others it is a mistake in my opinion that the original design will be launched in-spite of community feedback.
Yeah the more I think about my first reaction, any compromise that doesn’t include delayed implementation of the change is a complete tone deaf move
So why can't we just have a inventory cap to match some of the content. Take the star lord carina challange. Because of the way the content is designed its a revive fest. Same for most of the Caritas challenges. Abyss has an enrage counter so doesn't matter if you are playing flawlessly you'll have to revive
Since you all clearly didn't listen to the player base let me make this clear which direction this heading. You have now alienated people that aren't at the top of skill from playing end game content. So you will not only make less money from EOP and other mount Everest challenges like Carina but you'll also have way less participation.
Eventually you'll be forced to increase revive farming or bring it back but for now it is a calculated risk. Good luck with that as you'll be exposed in the coming months.
Kabam doesn't mind if you use consumable, as long as you pay for it. That's all they are saying in that long post. They talk transparency, then be fully transparent. You change defenders behavior, then tell us, this way will know what expect and won't report "false bug".
I'm one of the fools giving you money because I have been enjoying the game. I never farmed for revived, don't have the time for it. But that's a problem YOU created, not us. So far, I have done 3 of the Carina 3 stupid challenge (yes, they are stupid as they are purposely designed to make us failed, nothing to do with skills or champ combination strategy). How I did it? I spammed revived, but I use those Valentine's Day revive, so that's better? Right? No expiration, 75 items cap, that's the way to go Kabam. 20? Not enough if you continue to build content like Carina 3. YOU created that situation, not us. Again, the only way to get through that content IS SPAMMING revives.
So don't give a lecture about the future of the game, the only reason that game is still going is because of players like me. But I'm really getting tired of you, telling us, we are the problem.
So, stop telling us you won't create more content because we are spamming revives, it's the name of the game. The Collector, spam revives, 7.2, 7.4, 8.1, 8.2 boss, spam revives (they are purposely built that only a few rare players can one shot them).
Unless you are only creating that content for @Karatemike415 and a few other youtubers. Then, yeah, just kill your best revenu stream and make it that is impossible to get through your content.
You change defender profile without telling us (I hate the term AI, there's no AI in what you do, just stupid lines of codes). The game is becoming unplayable pretty much in all the different areas, EQ, AQ, BG, Arena.
Fix your game before giving us a lecture about the future of the game.
I won't mind revives farming nerf if you make changes to old and future content that forces you to use a huge amount of revives like removing abyss and lol skirmish and enrage timer
I don't think this is too bad. The increase in l2 revives sets off the loss to l1 revives decently. I was reckoning being able to have 70-80 revives stashed was fair.
Bit concerned about the speed you can get them though. 1 a day from apothecary is too slow. Should be at least 3 but then you'd be raising the amount you can save so I dunno. 🤷
players spending tons of MONEY on units and revives to trivialize content is ok. Revive farming is not ok.🤦🏾♂️ The hypocrisy is real from kabam no matter how they try to spin it. They don’t care if players take months or days to do end game content as long as the cash keeps flowing. Imput issues still plaguing the game iso shortage is a huge problem, connection issues with that annoying blinking Wi-Fi signal is back. where is the help all button for arenas? Typical kabam.
Do 5.2.6 with cyclops and face one of the worst designed mcoc fights with him. RNG unstoppable and regen can also screw you along the way
Do numerous 4* labyrinth challenges that force you to spend units/stored revives regardless of how good you play
Do less than ideal abyss fights for challenges that make you revive through because of a hit counter that completely disregards skill
Do Carina 3 challenges with champions that don’t do very well against the fights they designed. Playing extremely well can maybe get you through the paths in 25 or so revives but don’t count on it (especially due to the current input issues)
None of these are cheap in terms of revives. They all cost tons and tons of revives per challenge and they’re not well designed
Not sure why Kabam keeps going on about skill based content and pushing through with a good roster when that doesn’t help with half the “challenges” they designed. There is skill based content for sure (act content, gauntlet) but their carina “challenges” and other recent stuff certainly isn’t it
The theme of the OG post in short is "with enough revives, you can brute force every content, so there is no point is harder content". But players always had access to unlimited revives - via units, whether that unit was earned or bought. Player could always brute force content with revives.
Game economies are primarily about rates, not events. The rewards in Everest content are going to be in the calendar one day. That doesn't mean that since it will eventually be easy to get, it doesn't matter if it is easy to get at launch.
In theory, players can grind an unlimited number of units, and thus convert those units into an unlimited amount of revives. But that takes time and effort, and the game is balanced around both. Attempting to do this throttles the rate at which those rewards can be earned. There's a huge difference between on EoP path per week and one EoP path per year, even if it is still ultimately overcoming the content with resources.
It is a bit disingenuous for players to argue that it makes no difference if we grind 3.2.6 or grind units, then complain about the difference when the 3.2.6 farm is taken away. What some players seem to be saying is it shouldn't matter to the devs how the players earn the rewards, but it is fair for the players to care how they earn the rewards. But that's not how games work.
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If you're implying it's unfair that people can spend as much as they want, then that's not something that can be resolved in the game. It's a business. They're not going to refuse legitimate funds.
Your arguments are seemingly based on a lack of understanding. I’m not sure if there’s a way to make you see what people are telling you.
Bluntly, the compromise isn't good enough. The changes to the inventory cap should have been implemented regardless of the community outrage. The apothecary appears to be in no way better than idle farming 3.2.6. The change from L1 to L2 for the 22 hour solo event is fine.
"Design Transparency" is transparent only in that it's obviously a mechanism to force summoners to use units to get through content. In no way is this less trivializing to "aspirational content" than the ability to replay early game content to stash revives. In fact, it's more so, because it means anyone willing to spend out of game currency can "unit-man" their way through any content, skill or no.
The community understands that MCOC can't be run for free, but what Kabam doesn't seem to understand is that when they antagonize the community base, those of us who are somewhere in between the strictly free to play summoners and the all out whale summoners are less likely to spend. It seems obvious to me that this is the demographic that the developers need most in order to flourish, and it's the demographic most likely to withhold their spending when the game has consistent issues that appear to be ignored like the control inputs and the obvious brazen cheating in Battlegrounds, the Arena, and now in March, in the Side Quest.
With those issues, making changes that antagonize the community like removing a source of consumables seems unwise. I've spent plenty of real world money in this game, but I've played for free since 2022 and until this culture of wringing the summoners for everything they're worth is changed, I'm not going to spend a dime. I'm not ready to stop playing, but I won't be getting a sigil or unit card or Spring Cleaning or 4th of July or anything in between.
"When we look to develop new endgame content, we set goals for that content.
We set challenge goals: how hard should it be? We set progression goals: how powerful should Summoners have to be to tackle it and how powerful should they be once they complete it? We set time goals: how much active play time should it require and how many days/weeks/months should it take for Summoners at various progression tiers to complete it? And we set consumable goals: how many units, potions, revives, boosts, etc., do we expect players to use. "
So @Kabam Jax , would the design team be able to provide the aforemetioned goals for the following content?
1. Carina's vol 1: Miike's revenge, Dance off, O canada, Inhuman stamina (assuming all required champs available and at max rank and sig)
2. Carina's vol 2: Mutant domination, Carina's challengers, Revolution, (assuming all required champs at 6* R3 appropriate sig level)
3. All of Carina's vol 3 challenges (assuming all required champs available at 6* R4 appropriae sig level but no champ swap gate used.)
This would allow us players to see how realistic the new consumable economy update allows us to handle these types of content.
Despite Energy remaining static this whole time, there is now the need to balance EQ + Apothecary +/- SQ (depending on month) +/- BG (depending on whether you use Elder Marks or not) + the official expectation that 22 h Event Completion is part of your Revive calculus.
There are no changes to how much energy refills one can typically get, so despite an increase to expected energy usage, one's energy and refills remain the same. This means there is an overall increase to energy demand, if you want to maximize your account's potential.
This feels kind of similar to how Kabam rolled out Paragon. They essentially included an Act completion offer as being part of the calculated sources of T6b/T3a, when those offers have never been included in the calculus.
Of course, people will argue that:
(1) you don't have to do it (which is not a very useful argument, as it just ends the discussion without any counterpoint)
(2) your revive-to-energy ratio was artificially inflated this whole time, so the New way is more realistic. Yes, but, that is a separate discussions.
Up until a month ago I personally spent on the daily deals, the weekly nexus deals that came up, the sigil, the monthly unit deals and then the sales through the year to top it all off as well. This game was a hobby to me I was hoping to come back to. So now is no more spending and I doubt based on kabams response I’ll ever pick the game up again. There is a lack of ownership and accountability to pushing out a fundamentally broken game and lack of acknowledgment this has for players. The input issues, at least when I last played was as bad as they have ever been. They may be a different set of bugs but it’s still broken and I’ve not seen anything to suggest it’s fixed. There is zero relief for this. Everything takes month and month and months to fix or implement. The mitigations for this debacle will take 6 months. My spending (peanuts to many, but also mountains more than FTP) was a way to develop my account, rank champions, get new champions to help beat end game content. Ok, so I wasn’t spending money on completing end game content as I was farming revives. Well Kabam, you’ll have stopped me farming ‘obscene’ numbers of revives so you’ll have met your objectives there. But you’ve lost all income from me, so overall that’s not a better position. Maybe other players will be different and they’ll play the game exactly in a way that conforms to achieving the devs goals. But from the comments I’ve seen I think there is a much bigger risk that people make a similar decision to me. Or maybe everyone else is so invested in there accounts after all these years there will be a bit of stampy feet from the community in the forums and then people go back to playing as normal.
Preface with I don't think Kabam's compromise here is enough, it can still use some work. But do people really think that the previous method of unlimited revives was healthy for the game?
Looking at this update purely on paper, you'd be able to farm ~60 revives a month, not taking into account any received from daily/4 hr crystals or any other weekly events, and assuming no units from said events are going towards revives. 60 revives, for your average skilled player, would probably get you more than enough for one carina's challenge. There are 6 v3 carina's challenges. So we're talking an average of 6 months to do all of the challenges, while likely retaining a few of those revives each month for random EQ slip ups and such. Is that such a bad thing?
What happened with Carina's v3, and what has happened for a very long time in this game, is people would farm up literally 100s of revives over the course of a few weeks when everest content is announced, then proceed to use those revives to knock out the entirety of that content within the first week it's out. Then proceed to complain that the game doesn't have any new everest content for the next 6 months. How is this healthy? How is this fair of a player base to do? In most games, endgame content is supposed to give longevity to a game, it's supposed to be done over the course of time while more content is developed. MCoC playerbase has used this unlimited revive method for a long time to ignore that and just do the content immediately, while also complaining about wanting more content. That's the part I'm having a hard time accepting.
if you want consistent content to do, and want them to continue developing it properly, does it really not make sense to people to remove that old method? Again, I don't think the current plan is quite good enough. Hopefully more work is done on this. But looking at this logically instead of "fanatic player base that hates change wahh", does this really not make sense?
Eventually you'll be forced to increase revive farming or bring it back but for now it is a calculated risk. Good luck with that as you'll be exposed in the coming months.
Kabam doesn't mind if you use consumable, as long as you pay for it. That's all they are saying in that long post. They talk transparency, then be fully transparent. You change defenders behavior, then tell us, this way will know what expect and won't report "false bug".
I'm one of the fools giving you money because I have been enjoying the game. I never farmed for revived, don't have the time for it. But that's a problem YOU created, not us. So far, I have done 3 of the Carina 3 stupid challenge (yes, they are stupid as they are purposely designed to make us failed, nothing to do with skills or champ combination strategy). How I did it? I spammed revived, but I use those Valentine's Day revive, so that's better? Right? No expiration, 75 items cap, that's the way to go Kabam. 20? Not enough if you continue to build content like Carina 3. YOU created that situation, not us. Again, the only way to get through that content IS SPAMMING revives.
So don't give a lecture about the future of the game, the only reason that game is still going is because of players like me. But I'm really getting tired of you, telling us, we are the problem.
So, stop telling us you won't create more content because we are spamming revives, it's the name of the game. The Collector, spam revives, 7.2, 7.4, 8.1, 8.2 boss, spam revives (they are purposely built that only a few rare players can one shot them).
Unless you are only creating that content for @Karatemike415 and a few other youtubers. Then, yeah, just kill your best revenu stream and make it that is impossible to get through your content.
You change defender profile without telling us (I hate the term AI, there's no AI in what you do, just stupid lines of codes). The game is becoming unplayable pretty much in all the different areas, EQ, AQ, BG, Arena.
Fix your game before giving us a lecture about the future of the game.
Bit concerned about the speed you can get them though. 1 a day from apothecary is too slow. Should be at least 3 but then you'd be raising the amount you can save so I dunno. 🤷
Do numerous 4* labyrinth challenges that force you to spend units/stored revives regardless of how good you play
Do less than ideal abyss fights for challenges that make you revive through because of a hit counter that completely disregards skill
Do Carina 3 challenges with champions that don’t do very well against the fights they designed. Playing extremely well can maybe get you through the paths in 25 or so revives but don’t count on it (especially due to the current input issues)
None of these are cheap in terms of revives. They all cost tons and tons of revives per challenge and they’re not well designed
Not sure why Kabam keeps going on about skill based content and pushing through with a good roster when that doesn’t help with half the “challenges” they designed. There is skill based content for sure (act content, gauntlet) but their carina “challenges” and other recent stuff certainly isn’t it
In theory, players can grind an unlimited number of units, and thus convert those units into an unlimited amount of revives. But that takes time and effort, and the game is balanced around both. Attempting to do this throttles the rate at which those rewards can be earned. There's a huge difference between on EoP path per week and one EoP path per year, even if it is still ultimately overcoming the content with resources.
It is a bit disingenuous for players to argue that it makes no difference if we grind 3.2.6 or grind units, then complain about the difference when the 3.2.6 farm is taken away. What some players seem to be saying is it shouldn't matter to the devs how the players earn the rewards, but it is fair for the players to care how they earn the rewards. But that's not how games work.