Spidey buff

Kabam why do this to us
We waited atleast 7 yrs for his buff and when he finally got buffed he's a noodle
U could've made him a little better made it worth the wait
(What do y'all think his buff is good or bad?)

Comments

BigPoppaCBONE

How is his damage poor? I've explained why I think it's fine, he can complete BGs in what most people consider a reasonable rotation. His limber immunity and taunts are fantastic utility. Now your turn, how is his damage considered poor? How do these things offer no utility?
His non-skill stun debuff duration effect immunity is good. I never said it wasn't. That doesn't make him some sort of stun god, but it's better than nothing. Stun effects would be better, but that's OK. His taunt isn't doing enough to be propped up as an example of his value, IMO. You can go ahead and think it's awesome if you want. I'm calling his damage poor because I'm looking at the numbers he's generating and they are solidly unimpressive. If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends. That gives me a reason to go for it, makes his damage go for longer than 3 seconds and the damage doesn't get Herculean since you can't refresh or pause the armor breaks. You don't get any of that though.

Also, the proc chance is a full 100% if you hit them while they're stunned - which is how you're supposed to play him.
What up, Karate Mike! Anyway, they won't be stunned for the whole fight and how often will you only hit when they're stunned just for stacking taunts since they fall off. His sig will help, but still. Unless you're getting at that having one or a couple Spidey taunts is basically the same as aggressively maintaining several since the attack reduction is puny (yeah, yeah, Inequity, I know. That would at best be a side benefit for the very few people that have that mastery and got it because they intended to and will still use it with someone better), the special effects don't stack, and he doesn't increase damage via taunt except during the 3 second stun of Special 2. That's a solid point.
If you could pause them with a dex or a MLM, that could have been interesting, but you still don't get much out of them. The constant flips and dashing in and out would have looked cool and real Spidey-like if he didn't have the oldest vanilla initial batch animations of all times.
"If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends."

This line right here shows me you don't actually understand how to use him/how he works. If you lose those taunts, even for armor breaks (which aren't a thing science champs are known for, so makes little sense anyway) you lose out on a ton. When you actually need the highest level of damage you can get, you'll build to just under an SP3, then SP2 into 3 combos which will give you another SP2 that will have an insane number of taunts since all the hits were into a stun. It's also not a 3 second stun, used correctly it will never just be a 3 second stun.

I never said the buff was awesome, I have said multiple times it's a mid-tier buff. You want to put words into my mouth to make yourself think you're right, go ahead.

And damage numbers are poor/unimpressive compared to what? Multiple people have said why his damage is good enough using the same example, he can do BGs in a timeframe expected of a "good enough" champion (sp1 into sp2 with ~a combo into the sp2 stun). I have yet to see someone give an example as to how/why the damage is poor.

If you're pleased with his buff, and you're happy using him and exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries, cool. I'll be over here, using someone better for me and continuing to ignore him just like pre-buff. Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.
I'm disappointed and a maybe a smidge salty that they had a wide open shot at something special for a beloved character and chucked a brick (IMO) even after all of the feedback; I didn't use him anyway and he was already easy to beat, so not much really changed.

JMC2007

It’s not that good if you ask me. Pretty underwhelming

pika

I like to see some mid/god tier gameplay in BG's for either VT/GC meta or at least AW gameplay, otherwise it's pointless for this buff to be praised as a good one.

Chobbly

The one thing that bothers me is that he is so reliant on synergies, but he’s not the first champion to be buffed that became excessively reliant on synergies.

The buff is an improvement on the beta and he’s arguably better than before. That means that the buff is technically a success, but some could argue that it’s only on a technicality. At least he’s got Taunt in the kit which is something I guess.

I think some of the disappointment is that the Spidey buff is coming off the back of the OG Hulk which was pretty good. Yes, not Red Mags level but pretty good.

This buff just feels like it’s missing something. Heck, even just give him an Attack Rating increase of 10% against Villains increasing to 20% against members of the Sinister Six, something a bit thematic.

VestasCure

How is his damage poor? I've explained why I think it's fine, he can complete BGs in what most people consider a reasonable rotation. His limber immunity and taunts are fantastic utility. Now your turn, how is his damage considered poor? How do these things offer no utility?
His non-skill stun debuff duration effect immunity is good. I never said it wasn't. That doesn't make him some sort of stun god, but it's better than nothing. Stun effects would be better, but that's OK. His taunt isn't doing enough to be propped up as an example of his value, IMO. You can go ahead and think it's awesome if you want. I'm calling his damage poor because I'm looking at the numbers he's generating and they are solidly unimpressive. If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends. That gives me a reason to go for it, makes his damage go for longer than 3 seconds and the damage doesn't get Herculean since you can't refresh or pause the armor breaks. You don't get any of that though.

Also, the proc chance is a full 100% if you hit them while they're stunned - which is how you're supposed to play him.
What up, Karate Mike! Anyway, they won't be stunned for the whole fight and how often will you only hit when they're stunned just for stacking taunts since they fall off. His sig will help, but still. Unless you're getting at that having one or a couple Spidey taunts is basically the same as aggressively maintaining several since the attack reduction is puny (yeah, yeah, Inequity, I know. That would at best be a side benefit for the very few people that have that mastery and got it because they intended to and will still use it with someone better), the special effects don't stack, and he doesn't increase damage via taunt except during the 3 second stun of Special 2. That's a solid point.
If you could pause them with a dex or a MLM, that could have been interesting, but you still don't get much out of them. The constant flips and dashing in and out would have looked cool and real Spidey-like if he didn't have the oldest vanilla initial batch animations of all times.
"If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends."

This line right here shows me you don't actually understand how to use him/how he works. If you lose those taunts, even for armor breaks (which aren't a thing science champs are known for, so makes little sense anyway) you lose out on a ton. When you actually need the highest level of damage you can get, you'll build to just under an SP3, then SP2 into 3 combos which will give you another SP2 that will have an insane number of taunts since all the hits were into a stun. It's also not a 3 second stun, used correctly it will never just be a 3 second stun.

I never said the buff was awesome, I have said multiple times it's a mid-tier buff. You want to put words into my mouth to make yourself think you're right, go ahead.

And damage numbers are poor/unimpressive compared to what? Multiple people have said why his damage is good enough using the same example, he can do BGs in a timeframe expected of a "good enough" champion (sp1 into sp2 with ~a combo into the sp2 stun). I have yet to see someone give an example as to how/why the damage is poor.
If you're pleased with his buff, and you're happy using him and exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries, cool. I'll be over here, using someone better for me and continuing to ignore him just like pre-buff. Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.
I'm disappointed and a maybe a smidge salty that they had a wide open shot at something special for a beloved character and chucked a brick (IMO) even after all of the feedback; I didn't use him anyway and he was already easy to beat, so not much really changed.

That's great, super happy for you.

As has been stated by Kabam multiple times, and as people with elitist mentalities such as yourself time-after-time fail to understand is that these buffs are, 90% of the time, not meant for everyone. Their goal with the majority of buffs is to take completely unusable champs and make them viable for mid-tier rosters so that they don't feel completely hopeless when they pull the champ without having a filled out roster. That was 100% done with this. As a new player that needs a solid, relatively generic to his class champion that has a decent bit of utility and mid tier damage, I'd be ecstatic to pull spidey.

You continue to use whatever god tier champ you want to use. I have no interest in taking my spidey above R2 where he is, because I have enough R4s to never need the things spidey provides. But just because I'm at that level of roster doesn't mean I can't see this isn't a bad buff, it's just not a buff for me.

Loki_Poki1280

The thing is with Spidey is that he needs to be sig 200. And even then he is decent. And by decent I mean average. At that point, use the sig stones for someone else. Like Thing who is Amazing at Sig 200.

Regarding Spider-man's Rotation. For Practicality, you wanna throw 3 special 1's. This allows for him to maintain his Utility throughout most average health pool fights. Then, you want to ramp all the way to nearly a Special 3. Launch the Sp2. Hope it Crits. And after all that (He does not have some sort of Increased Combat Power Rate), you get about 100k from his Sp2. As a Rank 3. His Basic Attacks let you know throughout the entire time up until that Sp2 hit WORSE than his basic attacks before his Buff. My Rank 3 Spidey never Crit below 3k and I actually saw a 1.8k Crit today. Both scenarios against ROL Winter Soldier. Continuing, you have to Go back all the way up to nearly a Sp.3 and repeat. If your opponent moves a lot, then RIP webbing and rotation so you have to do an SP1 to keep your utility. It's just that his ramp up doesn't feel worth it.

A good example is War-Machine. Do 2 Sp.2 and then Do an Sp3. But at that Point his damage is consistent. You are never in danger of losing your entire ramp up. With Spider-Man, who knows? You may lose all of your Taunts because you missed a parry and now they all start falling off. Then your Sp2 hits like his Sp2 before his buff.

My Personal Experience with him tells me that His since his damage is reliant of his taunts, and his taunts are tricky to have at about 15+ stacks. What if they just allowed him to refresh his taunts when the opponent does a special attack? Then, you wouldn't have to worry about them falling off. Just focus on stacking them up. It would make his Special 2 Damage hit harder and more consistently.

I love spider-man. Imma continue using him and playing around with his kit. But his Buff is just extremely lack luster, and maybe they can actually give him a small one line buff somewhere in the future where we can actually call this a successful buff. So sorry for the Text. I'm on the verge of Absolutely ranting about his buff.

BigPoppaCBONE

How is his damage poor? I've explained why I think it's fine, he can complete BGs in what most people consider a reasonable rotation. His limber immunity and taunts are fantastic utility. Now your turn, how is his damage considered poor? How do these things offer no utility?
His non-skill stun debuff duration effect immunity is good. I never said it wasn't. That doesn't make him some sort of stun god, but it's better than nothing. Stun effects would be better, but that's OK. His taunt isn't doing enough to be propped up as an example of his value, IMO. You can go ahead and think it's awesome if you want. I'm calling his damage poor because I'm looking at the numbers he's generating and they are solidly unimpressive. If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends. That gives me a reason to go for it, makes his damage go for longer than 3 seconds and the damage doesn't get Herculean since you can't refresh or pause the armor breaks. You don't get any of that though.

Also, the proc chance is a full 100% if you hit them while they're stunned - which is how you're supposed to play him.
What up, Karate Mike! Anyway, they won't be stunned for the whole fight and how often will you only hit when they're stunned just for stacking taunts since they fall off. His sig will help, but still. Unless you're getting at that having one or a couple Spidey taunts is basically the same as aggressively maintaining several since the attack reduction is puny (yeah, yeah, Inequity, I know. That would at best be a side benefit for the very few people that have that mastery and got it because they intended to and will still use it with someone better), the special effects don't stack, and he doesn't increase damage via taunt except during the 3 second stun of Special 2. That's a solid point.
If you could pause them with a dex or a MLM, that could have been interesting, but you still don't get much out of them. The constant flips and dashing in and out would have looked cool and real Spidey-like if he didn't have the oldest vanilla initial batch animations of all times.
"If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends."

This line right here shows me you don't actually understand how to use him/how he works. If you lose those taunts, even for armor breaks (which aren't a thing science champs are known for, so makes little sense anyway) you lose out on a ton. When you actually need the highest level of damage you can get, you'll build to just under an SP3, then SP2 into 3 combos which will give you another SP2 that will have an insane number of taunts since all the hits were into a stun. It's also not a 3 second stun, used correctly it will never just be a 3 second stun.

I never said the buff was awesome, I have said multiple times it's a mid-tier buff. You want to put words into my mouth to make yourself think you're right, go ahead.

And damage numbers are poor/unimpressive compared to what? Multiple people have said why his damage is good enough using the same example, he can do BGs in a timeframe expected of a "good enough" champion (sp1 into sp2 with ~a combo into the sp2 stun). I have yet to see someone give an example as to how/why the damage is poor.
If you're pleased with his buff, and you're happy using him and exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries, cool. I'll be over here, using someone better for me and continuing to ignore him just like pre-buff. Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.
I'm disappointed and a maybe a smidge salty that they had a wide open shot at something special for a beloved character and chucked a brick (IMO) even after all of the feedback; I didn't use him anyway and he was already easy to beat, so not much really changed.
That's great, super happy for you.

As has been stated by Kabam multiple times, and as people with elitist mentalities such as yourself time-after-time fail to understand is that these buffs are, 90% of the time, not meant for everyone. Their goal with the majority of buffs is to take completely unusable champs and make them viable for mid-tier rosters so that they don't feel completely hopeless when they pull the champ without having a filled out roster. That was 100% done with this. As a new player that needs a solid, relatively generic to his class champion that has a decent bit of utility and mid tier damage, I'd be ecstatic to pull spidey.

You continue to use whatever god tier champ you want to use. I have no interest in taking my spidey above R2 where he is, because I have enough R4s to never need the things spidey provides. But just because I'm at that level of roster doesn't mean I can't see this isn't a bad buff, it's just not a buff for me.

I believe I said,

Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.

I don't know how I became an elitist for wanting and expecting more out of this buff. Or how anything I said translated in any way to all I want are god-tiers. Anyway, it stands to reason that when one of the very few champs you have is a Spidey, of course you're going to use him, mostly because you recognize him and everyone likes Spider-Man. Duh. That's the same thing everyone does until they realize the famous champ they use all the time actually isn't anything special once their roster fills out and they start trying out the other champs they're pulling.
How much better would it be if some of the champs even my mom recognized were actually top tier? Not meta-redefining, but good enough that you could think, "It's a little more work using them in so many fights, but I like them enough to not care".

VestasCure

How is his damage poor? I've explained why I think it's fine, he can complete BGs in what most people consider a reasonable rotation. His limber immunity and taunts are fantastic utility. Now your turn, how is his damage considered poor? How do these things offer no utility?
His non-skill stun debuff duration effect immunity is good. I never said it wasn't. That doesn't make him some sort of stun god, but it's better than nothing. Stun effects would be better, but that's OK. His taunt isn't doing enough to be propped up as an example of his value, IMO. You can go ahead and think it's awesome if you want. I'm calling his damage poor because I'm looking at the numbers he's generating and they are solidly unimpressive. If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends. That gives me a reason to go for it, makes his damage go for longer than 3 seconds and the damage doesn't get Herculean since you can't refresh or pause the armor breaks. You don't get any of that though.

Also, the proc chance is a full 100% if you hit them while they're stunned - which is how you're supposed to play him.
What up, Karate Mike! Anyway, they won't be stunned for the whole fight and how often will you only hit when they're stunned just for stacking taunts since they fall off. His sig will help, but still. Unless you're getting at that having one or a couple Spidey taunts is basically the same as aggressively maintaining several since the attack reduction is puny (yeah, yeah, Inequity, I know. That would at best be a side benefit for the very few people that have that mastery and got it because they intended to and will still use it with someone better), the special effects don't stack, and he doesn't increase damage via taunt except during the 3 second stun of Special 2. That's a solid point.
If you could pause them with a dex or a MLM, that could have been interesting, but you still don't get much out of them. The constant flips and dashing in and out would have looked cool and real Spidey-like if he didn't have the oldest vanilla initial batch animations of all times.
"If they wanted the Special 2 to be impressive enough to bother with using him, they could have done something like his taunts become armor breaks once the Special 2 stun ends."

This line right here shows me you don't actually understand how to use him/how he works. If you lose those taunts, even for armor breaks (which aren't a thing science champs are known for, so makes little sense anyway) you lose out on a ton. When you actually need the highest level of damage you can get, you'll build to just under an SP3, then SP2 into 3 combos which will give you another SP2 that will have an insane number of taunts since all the hits were into a stun. It's also not a 3 second stun, used correctly it will never just be a 3 second stun.

I never said the buff was awesome, I have said multiple times it's a mid-tier buff. You want to put words into my mouth to make yourself think you're right, go ahead.

And damage numbers are poor/unimpressive compared to what? Multiple people have said why his damage is good enough using the same example, he can do BGs in a timeframe expected of a "good enough" champion (sp1 into sp2 with ~a combo into the sp2 stun). I have yet to see someone give an example as to how/why the damage is poor.
If you're pleased with his buff, and you're happy using him and exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries, cool. I'll be over here, using someone better for me and continuing to ignore him just like pre-buff. Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.
I'm disappointed and a maybe a smidge salty that they had a wide open shot at something special for a beloved character and chucked a brick (IMO) even after all of the feedback; I didn't use him anyway and he was already easy to beat, so not much really changed.
That's great, super happy for you.

As has been stated by Kabam multiple times, and as people with elitist mentalities such as yourself time-after-time fail to understand is that these buffs are, 90% of the time, not meant for everyone. Their goal with the majority of buffs is to take completely unusable champs and make them viable for mid-tier rosters so that they don't feel completely hopeless when they pull the champ without having a filled out roster. That was 100% done with this. As a new player that needs a solid, relatively generic to his class champion that has a decent bit of utility and mid tier damage, I'd be ecstatic to pull spidey.

You continue to use whatever god tier champ you want to use. I have no interest in taking my spidey above R2 where he is, because I have enough R4s to never need the things spidey provides. But just because I'm at that level of roster doesn't mean I can't see this isn't a bad buff, it's just not a buff for me.
I believe I said,
Nothing is for everyone everywhere all of the time, even Hercules.
I don't know how I became an elitist for wanting and expecting more out of this buff. Or how anything I said translated in any way to all I want are god-tiers. Anyway, it stands to reason that when one of the very few champs you have is a Spidey, of course you're going to use him, mostly because you recognize him and everyone likes Spider-Man. Duh. That's the same thing everyone does until they realize the famous champ they use all the time actually isn't anything special once their roster fills out and they start trying out the other champs they're pulling.
How much better would it be if some of the champs even my mom recognized were actually top tier? Not meta-redefining, but good enough that you could think, "It's a little more work using them in so many fights, but I like them enough to not care".

It's the way you put things. "exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries" this is clearly talking down on it rather than just accepting it's a good buff for other players. "one of the very few champs you have is a Spidey, of course you're going to use him" You're clearly trying to make this out like he's a trash champ that shouldn't be used if you have anything remotely better.

Maybe elitist was wrong to call you, but you can't honestly sit here and try to tell me you weren't being over the top with how you're talking about how bad the buff is.

BigPoppaCBONE

It's the way you put things. "exploring the depths of his fancy new lower lower mid-tier mysteries" this is clearly talking down on it rather than just accepting it's a good buff for other players. "one of the very few champs you have is a Spidey, of course you're going to use him" You're clearly trying to make this out like he's a trash champ that shouldn't be used if you have anything remotely better.

Maybe elitist was wrong to call you, but you can't honestly sit here and try to tell me you weren't being over the top with how you're talking about how bad the buff is.

That was in response to your saying I didn't understand how to use him or how he works, so apparently he had intricacies that the buff naysayers and I weren't recognizing or optimizing.
I'm saying if you only have a few champs, you're going to use the one you recognize first and arguably only Hulk is as or more instantly recognizable worldwide. I'm also saying that once your roster expands, players will ditch Spider-Man post buff, just like pre buff, for champs that do the same things he does, but better, or that don't need to do what he does because the things they bring to the table are better.
After this buff he's only jumped up to become arguably the 4th best Science Spider-verse hero out of 5 and that's pitiful for the OG and the Marvel flagship. If I had more experience with Spider-Gwen, I might consider him still the worst.
If people are satisfied with this level of buff execution and want to rank him up and use him, that's fine, I just won't be one of them if nothing changes.

ThePredator1001

The buff just went live people need to give him a chance. I’ve been testing him abit and the damage isn’t bad, he’s got some good utility, and the amount of control you have over the fight with the constant taunts is very nice. He isn’t a top science champ, and it would be nice to have a little more utility or damage since he’s such a popular character. But overall I do enjoy playing him now and he’s now a solid champ. Not every buff needs to suddenly elevate the champion to top of the game.

Loki_Poki1280

@BigPoppaCBONE I honestly think that Spider-Gwen is better than OG Spidey Overall. In fact she's even easier to use and "Beginner Friendly" than OG Spidey. Her damage ramp up doesn't go away and Her evade is way more reliable. She has slow on heavy and access to enervate.

BigPoppaCBONE

@BigPoppaCBONE I honestly think that Spider-Gwen is better than OG Spidey Overall. In fact she's even easier to use and "Beginner Friendly" than OG Spidey. Her damage ramp up doesn't go away and Her evade is way more reliable. She has slow on heavy and access to enervate.

I'll take your word for it, but that's a sad state of affairs if that puts him as the worst Science with maybe Symbiote as the worst across all classes.

AMS94

@BigPoppaCBONE I honestly think that Spider-Gwen is better than OG Spidey Overall. In fact she's even easier to use and "Beginner Friendly" than OG Spidey. Her damage ramp up doesn't go away and Her evade is way more reliable. She has slow on heavy and access to enervate.

All spideys are better than this....only the Symbiote one can be debated bcoz he doesn't offer much utility but in terms of damage he is much better. Also those excessively long Armor breaks can be considered a pretty decent utility for taking champs like Emma, IronDoom, Omega Sentinel or Killmonger but it's still not comparable to Classic Spidey's new utility.

Gwen, Miles, Stealth, Ham, Peni, Supreme.....all are definitely better
Symbiote is the only one that can be debated about

But Symbiote Spidey is still in the same state as he was when he was released in 2015, which means his utility kit is 8 years old, whereas the Classic one has just got a new kit in 2023
Based on that I would say that the Symbiote one definitely deserves some bonus points

BigPoppaCBONE

Not every buff needs to suddenly elevate the champion to top of the game.

No one is saying that and "not every champ/buff should/can be the next Hercules/Magneto" shouldn't be the boilerplate excuse for lackluster efforts. The flagship Marvel character couldn't at least get a clear niche like Torch:Mystics? They couldn't even make him the best Peter Parker? He's got to settle for 4th if we count Peter Porker.
This biff is getting you to play him today, but will you still use him for anything in a few months? We'll see.

AMS94

I like to see some mid/god tier gameplay in BG's for either VT/GC meta or at least AW gameplay, otherwise it's pointless for this buff to be praised as a good one.

He is absolutely unusable in BGs bcoz of low damage & all the willpower healing that he gives....may be despair can help with that healing but the damage is still not good enough in most cases
In AW he can find some use in lower tiers....but I don't see him getting used offensively above Tier 7 or 8

AMS94

Having had a play, it's all a bit DDHK to me. Not being harsh but there are similarities.

Fan favourite character, updated visuals or animations, specific and niche utility, average level of damage output and relies heavily on synergies.

DDHK is mid but still better than Spidey IMO
His ability to ignore miss & willpower regen places him a bit higher for me

Chobbly

Having had a play, it's all a bit DDHK to me. Not being harsh but there are similarities.

Fan favourite character, updated visuals or animations, specific and niche utility, average level of damage output and relies heavily on synergies.
DDHK is mid but still better than Spidey IMO
His ability to ignore miss & willpower regen places him a bit higher for me

I agree, but at least Spider-Man doesn't fold like a napkin whenever he gains a damaging Debuff. But I think you're right.

The pattern is the same though; I wonder if it's by design that the popular characters often (but not always) end up with average buffs...

Players will want to rank up relatively minor characters from Marvel lore if they are particularly effective (Hercules, Gorr, Diablo, BWCV, Hyperion, etc etc) and likewise will be tempted to rank up their favourite characters because of who they are. If there were as effective as one another the more obscure characters wouldn't get a look in - wasted Dev effort.

It's not a bad buff, he's just average now, but you get the point. And rank up resources are so valuable you avoid rankings up average champions.

Hector_1475

Having had a play, it's all a bit DDHK to me. Not being harsh but there are similarities.

Fan favourite character, updated visuals or animations, specific and niche utility, average level of damage output and relies heavily on synergies.
DDHK is mid but still better than Spidey IMO
His ability to ignore miss & willpower regen places him a bit higher for me

Hard disagree. DDHK has ONE role in the game: to bypass Miss. That's it. And that ability, very funnily, was given to him 1-2 months after his pathetic buff.

Spidey, after his buff, can be used in the following matchups:

against unstoppable champs / nodes (with 100% uptime after 2 SP1s)
against evading champs / nodes (with 100% uptime after 2 SP1s)
regen nodes (yes, I run max despair). Mystics love to regen, btw.
All or nothing nodes (opponents throw SP1 like candy on Halloween)
Power contol scenarios (due to his ability to stack permanently debuffs - yes, I run max petrify too). Mystics love to gain power passively.

And, NO, it thought so at the begining, but he is NOT reliant on synergies. He has pretty damn decent damage and fine utility stand-alone.

Is he a big damage dealer? Certainly not.
Does he have very decent and usable utility? Absolutely yes.
Is he a top-10 Science champ? No, he is not.
Does he benefit a fully advanced roster...? Very debatable.

What is he good for...? He is a VERY simple, minimal rampup champ, that can tackle the above scenarios.
Will you rank him up? I personally don't know. I have 10 Science champs 6R4/6R3 and I have Titania, Quicksilver, iBom, Red Hulk waiting in line for rankups. But perhaps Spidey is the outsider and wins this race, who knows? I will keep testing him. So far, and especially against Mystics, he is a perfectly usable champ.

Hector_1475

Too late for editing the above post, but we should also add Limber nodes in the above list.

TripleB

@Hector_1475 I don't know if Limber nodes work against him. They added this line of text to his kit, "The duration of Stun Debuffs on non-Skill Opponents cannot be reduced, and while the Opponent is Stunned their Ability Power Rate is reduced by 50%.".

VestasCure

@Hector_1475 I don't know if Limber nodes work against him. They added this line of text to his kit, "The duration of Stun Debuffs on non-Skill Opponents cannot be reduced, and while the Opponent is Stunned their Ability Power Rate is reduced by 50%.".

He's saying add limber to the list as in add it to the list of things he is good at, because of exactly what you noted. Outside of skill champs he 100% ignores/counters limber.

TripleB

@VestasCure gotcha, thanks! I misread.

Deacon

i mean there's at least one positive .. his PI got a huge boost lol

GlazzyBear

This post didn't age well at all. Check out this video.
https://youtu.be/VvNd2vKLlIQ

GlazzyBear

Community can be so hypocritical sometimes. This buff is so similar to spidergwen's and miles morales. Not to mention, how howard the duck, chavez, and even magneto rely on stun for their buffed kits...

SpaceCorp

I mean, my opinion, but I sort of like the buff for Spidey. Did I want more? Yes

Licky

Check out BmCG video it showcases him with and without synergies

With great RNG and synergys he's really quite good

But without he's a mid tier but could be god in a very few matchups

Chobbly

The buff, for want of a better phrase, puts him up in the average tier as others have said. The problem is that so many other champs do elements of what he does, arguably better and less dependent on synergies.

Yes, decent-ish damage at rank 4 but I'd expect decent damage for a rank 4. It's not the worst buff and he had some nice uses, but maybe not enough to lift him out of the mid-table obscurity.

TripleB

Yes this is with synergies but it's still really cool that it is coming from OG Spidey. If I had to change one thing about him, it would be to revert his Critical Damage rating back to what it was prebuff.

Manup456

I think they spent all this time on reworking him and failed so the time could have been used for other things like bugs that are all over the place.