Honest, ernest question poll about 7* cost thought process

Do you think Kabam announced 7* cost at 15,000 shards just so they can "compromise" at 12,500 with less outrage?

Comments

I was (and still are) a big believer that the revive nerf thing was a cash grab, or rather, their earnings that they was getting from everest content dwindled since every man and his dog farmed 3.2.6 like crazy, nothing will change my mind on that. Kabam have confirmed it without saying it in more than one way but how is the 7* increase ever a cash grab ... why are people saying it is 🤔

Because every change they make is:
1. A slap in the face.
2. A cash grab.
3. The death of f2p.

TyEdge

For people who are binging on paragon crystals, this affects them minimally. It’ll often be a matter of how many sig levels champs have. For regular players who aren’t whales, dupes were probably the primary method of accruing shards, and it’ll hurt them as it now takes 55 dupes to get enough shards for a crystal.
To put this into perspective, since the new featured 6* crystal flipped over, I've opened 28 crystals, plus I have one unopened, plus I am sitting on about 15k of shards. So hypothetically speaking, I could have opened 30 featured crystals in about 66 days. How many of those 6* crystals were purchased with 6* shards from 5* dups?

Essentially, none of them. I stopped opening 5* crystals a while back, once my ISO situation stabilized. For me 5* crystals are a way to save ISO for a rainy day, and it hasn't rained in a while. I have over 440k 5* shards at the moment, plus 30 5* dual class crystals unopened. Of course, I've received 5* champs here and there - from arena rewards, say. But overall, in the last 66 days it is safe to say that the total number of 6* shards I received from 5* duplication would amount to less than one crystal.

But what if I liquidated *all* of my 5* champion crystals all at once? I could open about 80 crystals between shards, dual class, and nexus crystals. Let's assume all of them generate max sig crystals and all of those drop 6* shards. That would amount to 80x275x2 = 44000 shards. That's four basic 6* crystals and change. Let's round that up to five, for no reason at all, and let's also compare those five basic crystals to the 30 featured crystals I've already opened, all of which cost more shards.

In that case, my 6* champions in the last 66 days would come about 17% from 5* duplication and 83% from direct 6* shard rewards.

For my 6* champs to come at least 50% from 5* duplication would require magically opening an additional 465 5* crystals or otherwise max sig dup 465 champions. In 66 days that would require opening seven 5* crystals a day. Really, that is not going to happen. But I could be opening Cav crystals. Basic Cav crystals have a 16% chance to drop a 5* champ then I could be opening about 42 Cav crystals a day to end up with enough 6* shards from 5* duplication to equal the amount of 6* champs I'm currently getting from non-duplication sources. So for regular players buying about 1300 Cav crystals a month, 6* champs could be coming as much from 5* duplication as from direct rewards.

Except that's wrong: Cav crystals don't actually help at all. They have a 16% chance to drop a 5* but also a 3% chance to drop a 6*. That means for every 100 Cav crystals you buy you get (on average) three 6* champs directly, and sixteen 5* champs that generate about 8800 6* shards on average (assuming every drop generates a max sig crystal that itself drops shards). That's less than one. So no amount of buying Cav crystals will *ever* create a situation where a player is getting more 6* champs from 5* dups as they get from just receiving 6* champs directly.

A whale that is completely bonkers could buy an unlimited number of GMCs which have a chance to drop 5* champs and no chance to drop 6* champs and eventually have more 6* champs from 5* duplication than from direct 6* rewards. But that's ridiculous.

*Initially* at release it is possible that champion duplication could be a substantial percentage of the 7* shards available to players. However, history shows that changes fast: it did for 5* and 6* rarity. There's no way that once things get moving the average player is going to be opening 6* crystals at twenty to forty times the rate of 7* crystals, which is what it would take for duplication to compete with direct rewards. That would eventually require Kabam to start handing Paragon players hundreds of 6* crystals. That's extremely unlikely.

8.2 is the first story mode release in 7 months and it includes a TOTAL of 4000 shards, barely a quarter of a crystal. Miike teased a paragon difficulty but that’s not imminent. 8.3 comes out in September if we’re really lucky.

Most of the 7-stars in existence will be launch champs then from paragon crystals whenever they drop. The other obvious exception will be whatever they decide to sell.

The marginal value of each champ/pull decreases over time. I’ve got 69 champs (nice) at 6r3+. Turning one of those into my 14th r4 or adding an extra 7-star to the mix is very impactful. Adding a 70th champ to this level is not.

Whether a shard-rich summoner has 20 pulls or 30 doesn’t change how I’m situated compared to them. They’re playing a different game and that’s fine. Whether I get four 7-stars or six 7-stars substantially changes how often I get the excitement of a new spin and what options I have on a roster with 13 r4+ champs. (I’ll make Scorpion r4 this month then my first r5).

They’ve clearly got a realized vision for very good-not-great champs going in this crystal, which I support. Especially considering that acts 7 and 8 do nothing to boost 7-stars, that means story mode content will be driven by 6-stars while 7-stars spend a while handling BGs and war defense.

If they thought the 6-star dupe economy was out of control, then the intervention should be an adjustment to availability of shards in BGs, because outliers there probably drive the imbalance more than anything.

DrZola

For people who are binging on paragon crystals, this affects them minimally. It’ll often be a matter of how many sig levels champs have. For regular players who aren’t whales, dupes were probably the primary method of accruing shards, and it’ll hurt them as it now takes 55 dupes to get enough shards for a crystal.
To put this into perspective, since the new featured 6* crystal flipped over, I've opened 28 crystals, plus I have one unopened, plus I am sitting on about 15k of shards. So hypothetically speaking, I could have opened 30 featured crystals in about 66 days. How many of those 6* crystals were purchased with 6* shards from 5* dups?

Essentially, none of them. I stopped opening 5* crystals a while back, once my ISO situation stabilized. For me 5* crystals are a way to save ISO for a rainy day, and it hasn't rained in a while. I have over 440k 5* shards at the moment, plus 30 5* dual class crystals unopened. Of course, I've received 5* champs here and there - from arena rewards, say. But overall, in the last 66 days it is safe to say that the total number of 6* shards I received from 5* duplication would amount to less than one crystal.

But what if I liquidated *all* of my 5* champion crystals all at once? I could open about 80 crystals between shards, dual class, and nexus crystals. Let's assume all of them generate max sig crystals and all of those drop 6* shards. That would amount to 80x275x2 = 44000 shards. That's four basic 6* crystals and change. Let's round that up to five, for no reason at all, and let's also compare those five basic crystals to the 30 featured crystals I've already opened, all of which cost more shards.

In that case, my 6* champions in the last 66 days would come about 17% from 5* duplication and 83% from direct 6* shard rewards.

For my 6* champs to come at least 50% from 5* duplication would require magically opening an additional 465 5* crystals or otherwise max sig dup 465 champions. In 66 days that would require opening seven 5* crystals a day. Really, that is not going to happen. But I could be opening Cav crystals. Basic Cav crystals have a 16% chance to drop a 5* champ then I could be opening about 42 Cav crystals a day to end up with enough 6* shards from 5* duplication to equal the amount of 6* champs I'm currently getting from non-duplication sources. So for regular players buying about 1300 Cav crystals a month, 6* champs could be coming as much from 5* duplication as from direct rewards.

Except that's wrong: Cav crystals don't actually help at all. They have a 16% chance to drop a 5* but also a 3% chance to drop a 6*. That means for every 100 Cav crystals you buy you get (on average) three 6* champs directly, and sixteen 5* champs that generate about 8800 6* shards on average (assuming every drop generates a max sig crystal that itself drops shards). That's less than one. So no amount of buying Cav crystals will *ever* create a situation where a player is getting more 6* champs from 5* dups as they get from just receiving 6* champs directly.

A whale that is completely bonkers could buy an unlimited number of GMCs which have a chance to drop 5* champs and no chance to drop 6* champs and eventually have more 6* champs from 5* duplication than from direct 6* rewards. But that's ridiculous.

*Initially* at release it is possible that champion duplication could be a substantial percentage of the 7* shards available to players. However, history shows that changes fast: it did for 5* and 6* rarity. There's no way that once things get moving the average player is going to be opening 6* crystals at twenty to forty times the rate of 7* crystals, which is what it would take for duplication to compete with direct rewards. That would eventually require Kabam to start handing Paragon players hundreds of 6* crystals. That's extremely unlikely.
8.2 is the first story mode release in 7 months and it includes a TOTAL of 4000 shards, barely a quarter of a crystal. Miike teased a paragon difficulty but that’s not imminent. 8.3 comes out in September if we’re really lucky.

Most of the 7-stars in existence will be launch champs then from paragon crystals whenever they drop. The other obvious exception will be whatever they decide to sell.

The marginal value of each champ/pull decreases over time. I’ve got 69 champs (nice) at 6r3+. Turning one of those into my 14th r4 or adding an extra 7-star to the mix is very impactful. Adding a 70th champ to this level is not.

Whether a shard-rich summoner has 20 pulls or 30 doesn’t change how I’m situated compared to them. They’re playing a different game and that’s fine. Whether I get four 7-stars or six 7-stars substantially changes how often I get the excitement of a new spin and what options I have on a roster with 13 r4+ champs. (I’ll make Scorpion r4 this month then my first r5).

They’ve clearly got a realized vision for very good-not-great champs going in this crystal, which I support. Especially considering that acts 7 and 8 do nothing to boost 7-stars, that means story mode content will be driven by 6-stars while 7-stars spend a while handling BGs and war defense.

If they thought the 6-star dupe economy was out of control, then the intervention should be an adjustment to availability of shards in BGs, because outliers there probably drive the imbalance more than anything.

The only answer at this stage is to dial up the 6* shard spigot to 11.

Dr. Zola

Pandingo

I don't understand the 'first two for cheaper' idea. It seems dumb and pandering. Just make the cost what it is.

Greekhit

I don't understand the 'first two for cheaper' idea. It seems dumb and pandering. Just make the cost what it is.

The first two cheaper 10k crystals thing, is a good move to avoid huge reaction from the price raise.
Mainly for the many people that are on the verge of 10k 7* shards, in order to be less frustrated by the change and not outcry.
A good will move from the company in order to soften reactions, that unavoidable a core design (long term negative) change, would create.
To be honest better Kabam released 7* shards on 6* dupes later and people hadn’t accumulated so much 7* shards and 7* crystal price was 10k, rather than that which happened now with people having so many 7* shards, Kabam being forced to changed the price to 15k, and players will have to pay the 50% increased price eternally 🙁

Heir_of_thanos

The answer is no.

Crazy ratio by based Kabam Jax

Pandingo

Ya. See. I understand WHY they are doing it but I just don't get it. It's a weak move. Good for people who are close to 10k. Awesome. But then they have to wait even longer to chance duping it. And honestly, I don't think one 7* will be a game changer to any roster that has enough shards to get one. Like I said. Just seems like pandering. But at least more people will get to play around with their 7* toy. And I won't shoot down the extra 7* it gets me so yup. 🤷

Omedenn

Who cares man, 10k or 15k - it’s so easy to get 6* nowadays, so you’ll dupe a lot, or rank up material. And I am not a spender, just playing the game. Great they add paragon crystals and great the players who spend a lot or play a lot are getting rewarded.

If you don’t have enough 7* shards you are obviously not on that level yet. Which is fine. I also used a lot of 4* champs back in the days while I was looking at accounts with a lot of 6* - takes time and effort. If you spend it goes faster and that’s normal. But not a cash grab…

The people who spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on this game deserve to be way ahead of the rest. I wouldn’t spend money on a game, but have no issues with always being behind the people who do.

Just have fun, enjoy the game and play in your tempo. Don’t compete with people you shouldn’t compete with.

Ironman3000

Personally, I totally believe that they initially intended to have 666 7* shards for 8.2 completion then multiplied them bi 1.5 as that said in the live stream.

Unforgvn

Wouldn't it have just been easier as far as coding wise and for the overall presentation to all of us summoners to just reduce the amount of 7* shards you get from duping a 6* to half instead of making everything else have a higher return rate. Then 7* crystals could have stayed @10k and we wouldn't have to have this issue and there wouldn't be "as much of" a case to be able to call this a cash grab.

DNA3000

I don't understand the 'first two for cheaper' idea. It seems dumb and pandering. Just make the cost what it is.

If you feel it is pandering, you don't have to buy them. The obvious way to make the first two cost less than the rest is for them to implement a special 10k 7* crystal with a two-purchase limit. Stick to your guns and simply don't buy them.

DNA3000

Wouldn't it have just been easier as far as coding wise and for the overall presentation to all of us summoners to just reduce the amount of 7* shards you get from duping a 6* to half instead of making everything else have a higher return rate. Then 7* crystals could have stayed @10k and we wouldn't have to have this issue and there wouldn't be "as much of" a case to be able to call this a cash grab.

Except for two problems. First, they'd be reducing already established rewards for champion duplication. And second, they would be allowing existing hoards of 7* shards from duplication to retain their value. Changing the number of shards per crystal does precisely what they intended.

Either way it was going to be called a cash grab and a slap in the face and all sorts of other nonsense. So might as well do it the mathematically proper way.

Pandingo

I don't understand the 'first two for cheaper' idea. It seems dumb and pandering. Just make the cost what it is.
If you feel it is pandering, you don't have to buy them. The obvious way to make the first two cost less than the rest is for them to implement a special 10k 7* crystal with a two-purchase limit. Stick to your guns and simply don't buy them.

Lol. You're right. But to be clear it's pandering to lower accounts. I'm happy with the free 7* now I'm only 20k off from 10 7*

Colinwhitworth69

Compromise?

Anyway, don’t focus on 7 stars. Most will need dupes and sig stones and rank up materials that’s won’t be available in sufficient quantities for a long time. Six star champs are where it’s at.

unknown

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DrZola

The answer is no.
Crazy ratio by based Kabam Jax

I’ve seen better. But it is pretty decent for a forums mod.

Dr. Zola

Nameless_IW

My honest opinion about the 15k cost for 7* is just INSANE. Not a well thought process by any stretch of the imagination. Unless of course only "very good" and god tiers champs are added to the pool, which we already know isn't the case. So in retrospect, there will be duds in the 7* pool just like there is in the 6 and 5 stars pool. Just imagine investing 15k 7* shards for a Groot, Captain Marvel, OG Cap, Winter Soldier, Cyclops, Red Skull, Drax, Loki, and the likes LMAO. And then to make things worse, they make this titan pool and 7* pool, to be two separate pools????? this is just insanity.

Kerneas

My thought is:

I have no information about 7* shard availability. If I get, say 30k shards from monthly EQ, I am very happy. But I don't know if I am realistically getting 15k/year or 15k/month. Until I see this, there is no way I can judge whether the cost is reasonable ot not

DawsMan

If we need 15k shards for the crystal it would be nice if there is higher scaling for sevenstars. Obviously not optimal for war or anything else but it would be fun. I imagine it will go back down to 10k after a while though. i'm not going to spend shards until I have a very large amount and have a good chance at getting a very good champion.

unknown

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JrHoll

My biggest question is, what ways can players EARN 7 star shards OTHER than duping 6 stars? Will we get chump change 7 star shards from EQ and other events? If yes, will it be enough at launch to actually justify the cost of 7 stars?

Because if the ONLY acquisition method to 7 star shards is duping 6 stars, 15k is too high.

DNA3000

My biggest question is, what ways can players EARN 7 star shards OTHER than duping 6 stars? Will we get chump change 7 star shards from EQ and other events? If yes, will it be enough at launch to actually justify the cost of 7 stars?

Because if the ONLY acquisition method to 7 star shards is duping 6 stars, 15k is too high.

How do people earn 6* shards now if not duping? They exist as rewards in the content. And for most players, the content has more shards than they get from duping.

Initially, it will be much harder to earn 7* shards than 6* shards are now, of course. But just as 6* shards seemingly got more available every day, 7* shards will also follow an upward trajectory. Hopefully not as upwardly fast.

JChanceH9

I expect Kabam tries to give just enough to make the majority of people not want to go through the effort of complaining. 12.5k would have been a lot more reasonable for the average summoner if the extra 5k was expected to come from duping 6*s. Duping 10 6*s is reasonable. 20 seems a bit ridiculous for the average person.

unknown

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GroundedWisdom

You have to dupe 55 6* champs to get a 7 star.

This means you need a fairly deep roster.

Imagine duping all those champs just to pull a spider man..

That's 550k 6 star shards with 100 percent dupe rate

That would be pretty daunting, if that was the only source of Shards. However....

Just_Frank2022

So are we going to get the same old 24 t5 class iso that we get from 4* dupes when we dupe a 7*? Haven't seen this question addressed anywhere, but then again I don't read the really long posts. Just seems like if they gonna charge 15k shards for 7* they could do an overhaul on the dupe rewards. Jussayin

Giuliameij

I don`t mind the cost of 15k. What I don`t like is the poor people crystal and rich people crystal. New and old champs can no longer be gotten by the same shards. And that feels salty.