Battlegrounds Are Garbage For Fair Matching

Whatnot72056

It is almost impossible to get a fair match with 6*r3s in your deck. I was curious, so Today I tried a deck of 5*. Super outmatched. I then tried a deck of 2*. Astronomically outmatched. This proves there is no proper matching system. BG is garbage until that get fixed. Lol, if I want that much headache, I would go for Thronebreaker again hahahahahaahhaa.

Comments

Pikolu

BGs hasn't had deck based matchmaking in quite awhile due to sandbaggers putting a few 2*s in their deck for easier matchmaking.

GinjabredMonsta

Wow…you just got served

Chatterofforums

Op, welcome out from the cave that you must've been in for the past 4 seasons. Changing your deck does absolutely nothing for many months now. This change was made to stop the sandbaggers, unfortunately it creates enormous larger issues in matchmaking, primarily weak rosters getting easy paths deep to GC for the past several season.

The easy ride may have been finally adjusted this season on them but they still have easy ride to platinum at least.

Whatnot72056

BGs hasn't had deck based matchmaking in quite awhile due to sandbaggers putting a few 2*s in their deck for easier matchmaking.

Lol. Well then, I can understand why they sandbagged in BG. We used to have to do that in arenas years ago or you would just get death match after death match. Between getting outmatched and the nodes they put on it’s not worth playing until they fix it. This is quite reminiscent of old arena matches.

danielmath

i feel like what you're posting is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. Matchmaking should be based only on your ranking in bgs. Prestige, who's in your deck, all of that should be completely irrelevant. You're in bronze 3, you should match people in bronze 3, or maybe within a rank of that

Squirrelguy

What are you claiming as the definition of fair? Exactly equal average hero rating?

I don't mean this in a sarcastic way at all, but do you know how BGs matchmaking works? Do you think that people should be matched by hero rating and not by their BG tier? What do you think the BG rankings (Bronze 3, Silver 2, etc) are for?

Moosetiptronic

@Squirrelguy and @danielmath it does currently match on an effective prestige only method.

You are only matched in each bracket with those at similar prestige, not just whoever is in that bracket.

Woe betide a new paragon who takes up his sig 200 doom as one of the three first r4s..

Mike_II

completely agreed, this season has been all over the place when it comes to matchmaking, hopefully kabam cares enough to fix this

Mike_II

@Squirrelguy and @danielmath it does currently match on an effective prestige only method.

You are only matched in each bracket with those at similar prestige, not just whoever is in that bracket.

Woe betide a new paragon who takes up his sig 200 doom as one of the three first r4s..

then please explain why i am being paired with people with like 16k prestige when i have barely 8.7k

Coppin

@Squirrelguy and @danielmath it does currently match on an effective prestige only method.

You are only matched in each bracket with those at similar prestige, not just whoever is in that bracket.

Woe betide a new paragon who takes up his sig 200 doom as one of the three first r4s..
then please explain why i am being paired with people with like 16k prestige when i have barely 8.7k

What makes u think u can compete with a 8.7 prestiege...

danielmath

@Squirrelguy and @danielmath it does currently match on an effective prestige only method.

You are only matched in each bracket with those at similar prestige, not just whoever is in that bracket.

Woe betide a new paragon who takes up his sig 200 doom as one of the three first r4s..

Ya this is still wrong. Prestige should not be a factor, only your place in the standings

Moosetiptronic

@Squirrelguy and @danielmath it does currently match on an effective prestige only method.

You are only matched in each bracket with those at similar prestige, not just whoever is in that bracket.

Woe betide a new paragon who takes up his sig 200 doom as one of the three first r4s..
then please explain why i am being paired with people with like 16k prestige when i have barely 8.7k

I'd assume this is in gladiator circuit, correct?

Buttehrs

On a side note, I think special events in Battlegrounds using only 2, 3 4* etc would be fun.

pseudosane

@Squirrelguy and @danielmath it does currently match on an effective prestige only method.

You are only matched in each bracket with those at similar prestige, not just whoever is in that bracket.

Woe betide a new paragon who takes up his sig 200 doom as one of the three first r4s..
then please explain why i am being paired with people with like 16k prestige when i have barely 8.7k
I'd assume this is in gladiator circuit, correct?

no it is bronze 3.
OP, what is your prestige? Are those 2* your real strongest champs?

DNA3000

completely agreed, this season has been all over the place when it comes to matchmaking, hopefully kabam cares enough to fix this

The reverse is true. The system where everyone was getting curated matching where they were never required to face anyone except people with similar rosters, no matter how strong or how stunted, was the broken system. They've been slowly changing match making to move away from that broken system to a more competitively fair system, where in order to advance upward you have to actually face the kinds of players that are advancing upward.

There is a "fix" coming that Kabam mentioned: seeding, or progress preservation. At some point in the future when the tech is completed, players will not start seasons from zero: they will keep some of their prior season's progress. This way stronger players start higher, weaker players start lower, and the players you match against will be more likely to have a similar competitive strength.

"Competitive strength" is not the same thing as roster strength, however, irrespective of future mode changes.

I_tell_no_tales_1

completely agreed, this season has been all over the place when it comes to matchmaking, hopefully kabam cares enough to fix this
The reverse is true. The system where everyone was getting curated matching where they were never required to face anyone except people with similar rosters, no matter how strong or how stunted, was the broken system. They've been slowly changing match making to move away from that broken system to a more competitively fair system, where in order to advance upward you have to actually face the kinds of players that are advancing upward.

There is a "fix" coming that Kabam mentioned: seeding, or progress preservation. At some point in the future when the tech is completed, players will not start seasons from zero: they will keep some of their prior season's progress. This way stronger players start higher, weaker players start lower, and the players you match against will be more likely to have a similar competitive strength.

"Competitive strength" is not the same thing as roster strength, however, irrespective of future mode changes.

But with the new systems stronger players will miss out on bronze and rewards of other tiers below them
But if they add some method to collect rewards of tiers below your tier then it would probably be a way better system than the current broken one

Colinwhitworth69

I do not think we were ever promised "fair matchmaking".

Not saying you should just shut up and accept this, not at all. But giving you easier matchups than I get is not the answer, when we are fighting for the same rewards.

Multiple levels of BG makes the most sense to me, maybe separated by progression title or roster strength, and with different reward structures. That way you get easier matchups, but I get the chance at better rewards.

DNA3000

completely agreed, this season has been all over the place when it comes to matchmaking, hopefully kabam cares enough to fix this
The reverse is true. The system where everyone was getting curated matching where they were never required to face anyone except people with similar rosters, no matter how strong or how stunted, was the broken system. They've been slowly changing match making to move away from that broken system to a more competitively fair system, where in order to advance upward you have to actually face the kinds of players that are advancing upward.

There is a "fix" coming that Kabam mentioned: seeding, or progress preservation. At some point in the future when the tech is completed, players will not start seasons from zero: they will keep some of their prior season's progress. This way stronger players start higher, weaker players start lower, and the players you match against will be more likely to have a similar competitive strength.

"Competitive strength" is not the same thing as roster strength, however, irrespective of future mode changes.
But with the new systems stronger players will miss out on bronze and rewards of other tiers below them
But if they add some method to collect rewards of tiers below your tier then it would probably be a way better system than the current broken one

That's probably part of what's holding up implementing seeding. Seeding is not just about seeding, it is also about addressing all the knock down effects of seeding properly.

DNA3000

I do not think we were ever promised "fair matchmaking".

The notion of "fair matchmaking" is itself very sketchy. There's this weird notion that "fair" is something you can judge without context. Like, how about we flip for my house. Heads I keep it, tails you get it. As long as the coin is a fair coin, is this a fair event? No, of course not. I'm risking my house. You're risking nothing. The coin flip is fair, but deciding who owns my house on the basis of that fair coin flip is not fair.

A battlegrounds match in which both sides have equally strong rosters might be a fair fight, but that's not the same thing as saying using that equal match to decide who promotes and who doesn't, who gets rewards and who doesn't, is itself fair.

Competitions are about judging the competitors against each other. A fair competition is supposed to decide by a reasonably fair process who is the best competitor, who is the worst competitor, and where everyone else falls in between. A competition in name that doesn't decide this equitably is not a real competition. But if everyone gets "fair" matches, and we define "fair matches" as a match where each side has a 50/50 chance of winning, then by definition the competition is choosing its winner randomly. Whomever wins the most coin tosses wins.

In any competition, the strongest player should end up on top. But that obviously cannot happen if everyone always has a 50/50 chance of winning.

And to be frank, I haven't heard of many people actually asking for "fair" matches. What they are asking for are matches in which there is no roster advantage. They believe if you equalize roster, they would win more than half the time. That's arbitrarily deciding that certain aspects of the competition are more important than others, that somehow stronger roster is "unfair" but faster thumbs is "fair." The game doesn't make that artificial distinction. Ability to win is all that matters. And if someone thinks that having a stronger roster is an unfair advantage in a progressional game that rewards stronger roster and gates progression in part by roster strength, they need to find a different game that aligns with their belief systems.

Bluestone

Sandbagging doesn't work now, and in general bg matchmaking is unfair .
I understand its hard for kabam to fine tune the system .
Suggested solution , progression level, prestige and champs ratings should all be taking into account.
Add to that the number of champs in the account , their star level and rank level should greatly affect the match making.
For example a paragon account with ten r4 shouldn't be matched with paragon account with five r4 6* or lower . And so on .
Also the number of Consecutive wins or loss should be major indication that their is something wrong and adjust the matchmaking fairly.

DNA3000

Sandbagging doesn't work now, and in general bg matchmaking is unfair .
I understand its hard for kabam to fine tune the system .
Suggested solution , progression level, prestige and champs ratings should all be taking into account.
Add to that the number of champs in the account , their star level and rank level should greatly affect the match making.
For example a paragon account with ten r4 shouldn't be matched with paragon account with five r4 6* or lower . And so on .
Also the number of Consecutive wins or loss should be major indication that their is something wrong and adjust the matchmaking fairly.

The Gladiator track, which is 100% focused on competitive fairness and nothing else, jumps straight to the last item on your list and matches by ELO. Nothing else. If you survive long enough to reach GC, that's what you will face. No handicapping for roster strength. No looking at prestige. Nobody cares how many champs you have in your roster or what your progress tier is. You win, or you lose.

Whatnot72056

What are you claiming as the definition of fair? Exactly equal average hero rating?

I don't mean this in a sarcastic way at all, but do you know how BGs matchmaking works? Do you think that people should be matched by hero rating and not by their BG tier? What do you think the BG rankings (Bronze 3, Silver 2, etc) are for?

Hey, I personally would like it to be more like area but with this novel interaction. The node part is the over kill.

Whatnot72056

@Squirrelguy and @danielmath it does currently match on an effective prestige only method.

You are only matched in each bracket with those at similar prestige, not just whoever is in that bracket.

Woe betide a new paragon who takes up his sig 200 doom as one of the three first r4s..
then please explain why i am being paired with people with like 16k prestige when i have barely 8.7k
I'd assume this is in gladiator circuit, correct?

Lol I don’t even see the gladiator circuit. The crazy noded matches should be a separate challenge arena for those that want that headache.

Whatnot72056

@Squirrelguy and @danielmath it does currently match on an effective prestige only method.

You are only matched in each bracket with those at similar prestige, not just whoever is in that bracket.

Woe betide a new paragon who takes up his sig 200 doom as one of the three first r4s..
then please explain why i am being paired with people with like 16k prestige when i have barely 8.7k
I'd assume this is in gladiator circuit, correct?
no it is bronze 3.
OP, what is your prestige? Are those 2* your real strongest champs?

Oh no. Top are 6*r4 Hercules, Titania, Warlock, 7* Wong and Mangog and a bunch of 6*r3s like Doom, Wolviex etc. Most of those get banned right off the bat. I was testing out how the matching worked with all 5*r4 deck and 2* max deck.

Whatnot72056

completely agreed, this season has been all over the place when it comes to matchmaking, hopefully kabam cares enough to fix this
The reverse is true. The system where everyone was getting curated matching where they were never required to face anyone except people with similar rosters, no matter how strong or how stunted, was the broken system. They've been slowly changing match making to move away from that broken system to a more competitively fair system, where in order to advance upward you have to actually face the kinds of players that are advancing upward.

There is a "fix" coming that Kabam mentioned: seeding, or progress preservation. At some point in the future when the tech is completed, players will not start seasons from zero: they will keep some of their prior season's progress. This way stronger players start higher, weaker players start lower, and the players you match against will be more likely to have a similar competitive strength.

"Competitive strength" is not the same thing as roster strength, however, irrespective of future mode changes.

This super interesting, thank you. This has turned out to be a good discussion.

ChiliDog

Bronze 3 versus Bronze 3. No issue.

TheWatcher_

Seems to me you wanted a easier match. I don't know what you expected to happen.

KnightOfTheRealm

@Squirrelguy and @danielmath it does currently match on an effective prestige only method.

You are only matched in each bracket with those at similar prestige, not just whoever is in that bracket.

Woe betide a new paragon who takes up his sig 200 doom as one of the three first r4s..

I have 15.3k prestige and have repeatedly played people with 10-11k. I'm not complaining but that's not true.

NastyPhish

Matchmaking in a competitive game mode should be fair to all. Meaning you shouldn’t have an easier time getting the same rewards that I get just because you aren’t as far along in the game as me.

And I shouldn’t have a harder time than you just because I’m more developed.

That makes the opposite of sense.

When you que battlegrounds. You are queuing in a competitive game mode, where you compete. but your post is asking to only compete with direct peers or smaller accounts? I guess? I don’t think that’s fair at all.

Why should paragon players have to face Beroman and Kurt to get to Gladiators Circuit while you guys get to farm fresh cav players for easy wins?

So while you complain, I say matchmaking is finally fixed.

Whatnot72056

Matchmaking in a competitive game mode should be fair to all. Meaning you shouldn’t have an easier time getting the same rewards that I get just because you aren’t as far along in the game as me.

And I shouldn’t have a harder time than you just because I’m more developed.

That makes the opposite of sense.

When you que battlegrounds. You are queuing in a competitive game mode, where you compete. but your post is asking to only compete with direct peers or smaller accounts? I guess? I don’t think that’s fair at all.

Why should paragon players have to face Beroman and Kurt to get to Gladiators Circuit while you guys get to farm fresh cav players for easy wins?

So while you complain, I say matchmaking is finally fixed.

Not really a complaint. I like the set up and idea of BG. It’s more these insane nodes they put on the opponent champs coupled with their beefy roster. You go in with a regular champ, say 6*r3 and face a 30k to 40k bot. I can barely make a dent ending in a time out which is a loss or just get smashed in a few seconds before making a dent. When I talk about fairness, this is what I mean. It just becomes an unwanted headache and a literal waste of physical time. Basically every match is a throne breaker boss fight lol. I finally sat down and got through that headache a few days ago.