AI’s speed is nuking mcoc

HungaryHippo · May 2023

If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.

[Deleted User] · May 2023

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.

Prove it.

Demonzfyre · May 2023

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.

So you just want the Devs to fix something based off your feelings? Just magically fix it without seeing the same issues you are?

Vanitelia · May 2023

Could also be the hit boxes of the characters. Ikaris has a long medium. There's been a lot of discussions on hit boxes in other threads. Winning the intercept is based on inputs and we have input issues. The dropped frame is all it takes to lose that battle and eat that combo to the face. I don't think the AI is doing anything we can't do as users. They just don't deal with input issues that we have.

HungaryHippo · May 2023

Demonzfyre said:

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.
So you just want the Devs to fix something based off your feelings? Just magically fix it without seeing the same issues you are?

Where do you see me saying anything about fixing it? I happen to like the challenge. I'll just get better lol.

startropics · May 2023

There are times where the AI has obvious issues like extra speed and needing 5-7 dexes to bait a special and it's awful when it happens in BGs and war where you get backed up into a corner. Don't let anyone gaslight you, there are problems with the AI.

[Deleted User] · May 2023

startropics said:
There are times where the AI has obvious issues like extra speed and needing 5-7 dexes to bait a special and it's awful when it happens in BGs and war where you get backed up into a corner. Don't let anyone gaslight you, there are problems with the AI.

There are for sure problems with the AI, but extra speed is not one that has been proven or supported yet. And not throwing their specials is a huge problem we all face, but no idea if that's an AI issue or not.

Pikolu · May 2023

AngelMcNugget said:

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.
Prove it.

It's very easy to prove for blocking. Effects that show up when the opponent is blocking (like recharge) make it easy to tell that the AI is spamming block unless you trigger an attacking input.

[Deleted User] · May 2023

Pikolu said:

AngelMcNugget said:

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.
Prove it.
It's very easy to prove for blocking. Effects that show up when the opponent is blocking (like recharge) make it easy to tell that the AI is spamming block unless you trigger an attacking input.

But how is that an issue? Players do that as well, I don't see how it interferes with gameplay, though I agree that I've seen that a lot as well.

AverageDesi · May 2023

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.

Why should the whiffing be fixed? The entire point is that AI reacts according to what we do and that's why we can play the game at all. We don't want it to be the act 1 AI which is playing at -100IQ

Godslayer_1 · May 2023

HungaryHippo said:

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.

This light whiffing thing happened to me when i used domino against SQ mantis boss

She kept attacking with her light even though it didn't connect. She kept throwing her first light in air.

Very weird
Though this didn't happened again when i fought her with my kitty

Godslayer_1 · May 2023

Pikolu said:

AngelMcNugget said:

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.
Prove it.
It's very easy to prove for blocking. Effects that show up when the opponent is blocking (like recharge) make it easy to tell that the AI is spamming block unless you trigger an attacking input.

I remember AI doing this is one of the fights

It kept dashing back and forth whole spamming block. The moment my character would walk ahead, i would dash back to not get accidentally combo'ed.

AI kept dashing back and reached all the way into the corner from middle

Demonzfyre · May 2023

Pikolu said:

AngelMcNugget said:

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.
Prove it.
It's very easy to prove for blocking. Effects that show up when the opponent is blocking (like recharge) make it easy to tell that the AI is spamming block unless you trigger an attacking input.

I am not sure what you're trying to show here? Spam block? The A.I has always done this.

AverageDesi · May 2023

Demonzfyre said:

Pikolu said:

AngelMcNugget said:

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.
Prove it.
It's very easy to prove for blocking. Effects that show up when the opponent is blocking (like recharge) make it easy to tell that the AI is spamming block unless you trigger an attacking input.

I am not sure what you're trying to show here? Spam block? The A.I has always done this.

P1: AI does this
P2: prove it
P3: proves it

Yeah . It isn't a deal as far as I can see but more essential to the way ai behaves.

Demonzfyre · May 2023

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

Pikolu said:

AngelMcNugget said:

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.
Prove it.
It's very easy to prove for blocking. Effects that show up when the opponent is blocking (like recharge) make it easy to tell that the AI is spamming block unless you trigger an attacking input.

I am not sure what you're trying to show here? Spam block? The A.I has always done this.
P1: AI does this
P2: prove it
P3: proves it

Yeah . It isn't a deal as far as I can see but more essential to the way ai behaves.

But this isn't anything to do with the issues being discussed. Recovery times from knockdown and faster than normal dash in is what is being discussed.

Plus this is a node where you get power from holding block so why wouldn't the A.I do this?

Vanitelia · May 2023

I made this comment awhile ago in a thread about Shang Chi's introduction and his perfect dex/parry mechanic. Any time a character is introduced with a mechanic that involves timing, we see issues pop up in game surrounding those specific actions. OG BP and his intercept mechanic (and Herc for that matter). Heck, we now have intimidate and infuriate which directly impacts AI (along with standard aggression and passive nodes).

I don't think it's a far reach to put that possibility out there that it plays a factor in the issues we see now. Throw in the tweaks to behavior with certain node combinations and we get unusual AI behavior. Many of you can come up with other examples where Ai avoid taunts and holds their specials until a debuff (power sting) expires or a fury falls off. I can't explain it, but I see it, and I think it's frustrating.

AverageDesi · May 2023

Demonzfyre said:

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

Pikolu said:

AngelMcNugget said:

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.
Prove it.
It's very easy to prove for blocking. Effects that show up when the opponent is blocking (like recharge) make it easy to tell that the AI is spamming block unless you trigger an attacking input.

I am not sure what you're trying to show here? Spam block? The A.I has always done this.
P1: AI does this
P2: prove it
P3: proves it

Yeah . It isn't a deal as far as I can see but more essential to the way ai behaves.
But this isn't anything to do with the issues being discussed. Recovery times from knockdown and faster than normal dash in is what is being discussed.

Plus this is a node where you get power from holding block so why wouldn't the A.I do this?

Im not saying it's to do with the specific issues of knockdown and recovery.
But then, if the AI wanted to hold block, why would it not just hold it entirely instead of tapping in and out of block

[Deleted User] · May 2023

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

Pikolu said:

AngelMcNugget said:

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.
Prove it.
It's very easy to prove for blocking. Effects that show up when the opponent is blocking (like recharge) make it easy to tell that the AI is spamming block unless you trigger an attacking input.

I am not sure what you're trying to show here? Spam block? The A.I has always done this.
P1: AI does this
P2: prove it
P3: proves it

Yeah . It isn't a deal as far as I can see but more essential to the way ai behaves.
But this isn't anything to do with the issues being discussed. Recovery times from knockdown and faster than normal dash in is what is being discussed.

Plus this is a node where you get power from holding block so why wouldn't the A.I do this?
Im not saying it's to do with the specific issues of knockdown and recovery.
But then, if the AI wanted to hold block, why would it not just hold it entirely instead of tapping in and out of block

Either one works

SmallTimeANT · May 2023

Bro nothing is worse than dashing in while the opponent is finishing a heavy and getting intercepted with a light attack BEFORE they finish their heavy animation 🤣 I literally try to do the same thing and I get clipped every time

CyborgNinja135 · May 2023

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

AverageDesi said:

Demonzfyre said:

Pikolu said:

AngelMcNugget said:

HungaryHippo said:
If people cannot tell that the AI is heavily sped up (even when passive), you should just ignore their posts IMO. They are likely playing the game at a level where it's not noticeable and are just posting based on their level of play.

Just look at how fast it alternates between block when sniffing for inputs. Just the flickering alone is distracting. The AI is whiff punishing light attacks. A whiffed light attack means it was thrown outside of hit range but you cannot punish a whiffed light attack with a medium. So the game is realizing it's a light attack and immediately pressing a light to whiff punish.

The CPU opponent is also light and special intercepting mediums quite often and now doing 4 hit combos to specials. Not quite special cancels but if you're not paying attention, you can eat a special after a light whiff punish into a combo into a special.

Not to mention the All or Nothing behavior routinely being exhibited by the AI. When you commonly hear the likes of KT, MSD, and Lagacy saying "what was I supposed to do there?" on stream, you know it's not just happening to you.

OP, don't be gaslit by the people here; many of them are just low level players.
Prove it.
It's very easy to prove for blocking. Effects that show up when the opponent is blocking (like recharge) make it easy to tell that the AI is spamming block unless you trigger an attacking input.

I am not sure what you're trying to show here? Spam block? The A.I has always done this.
P1: AI does this
P2: prove it
P3: proves it

Yeah . It isn't a deal as far as I can see but more essential to the way ai behaves.
But this isn't anything to do with the issues being discussed. Recovery times from knockdown and faster than normal dash in is what is being discussed.

Plus this is a node where you get power from holding block so why wouldn't the A.I do this?
Im not saying it's to do with the specific issues of knockdown and recovery.
But then, if the AI wanted to hold block, why would it not just hold it entirely instead of tapping in and out of block

I take it as a sign that it's not safe to go and hit into their block. The tapping in and out it's just to catch you off guard if you try to dash into them

kikiFurieux · May 2023

Can we please stop calling her Rouge? Thanks

BabyMiike · May 2023

kikiFurieux said:
Can we please stop calling her Rouge? Thanks

I mean that's her name...

BabyMiike · May 2023

Also when the AI will hold on to a special and will only throw it when you dash at them for a medium

[Deleted User] · May 2023

BabyMiike said:

kikiFurieux said:
Can we please stop calling her Rouge? Thanks
I mean that's her name...

That is...almost her name

AI’s speed is nuking mcoc

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