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Battlegrounds matchmaking

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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,299 ★★★★★

    As for "They can hoard it until they hit Paragon.", so can Paragons.

    WTF does this even mean?
    It means nothing is stopping any Player at any progress level from hoarding their Trophies. The limits are the same for everyone. A Paragon can hoard just the same as a Player below. This idea that they're going to gain some kind of unfair advantage by hoarding them (compared to Players that have been Paragon much longer at that) is not logical.
    Do you really not understand the hoarding argument? We've been talking about it for like 6 months now and you still don't get it?
    I understand the argument. I disagree with it. Anyone can hoard their Trophies. In any system. It's a weak argument at best.
    I really don't think you do.

    If you do understand it, why do you disagree with it?
    Because it's not sound.
    First of all, I don't agree that it's actually that common of a thing. I don't suspect people are just sitting on hoards until they can hit Paragon, but let's say they are.
    Preventing someone from advancing isn't going to stop them from hoarding their Trophies. Any Player can choose to save them instead of spend them. At any rate of acquisition.
    Further to that, the value is only limited to what's available to them at that time. When they become Paragon, which is the highest, they're entitled to whatever is in the Store. The argument cancels itself out.
    lol, so you clearly do not get it. The argument isn't about people are hoarding or trying to stop them from hoarding. It's that they're able to earn a bunch of easy tokens and wait to spend them once they raise their title. The fact that they are impatient isn't my problem and doesn't change the fact that there is no logical "the rewards are different" argument.

    Honestly, who TF is arguing against allowing people to hoard???
    Define easy Tokens. That's the point. You're still not acknowledging the fact that people are earning what they earn where they're at.
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    Ironman3000Ironman3000 Posts: 1,919 ★★★★★

    As for "They can hoard it until they hit Paragon.", so can Paragons.

    WTF does this even mean?
    It means nothing is stopping any Player at any progress level from hoarding their Trophies. The limits are the same for everyone. A Paragon can hoard just the same as a Player below. This idea that they're going to gain some kind of unfair advantage by hoarding them (compared to Players that have been Paragon much longer at that) is not logical.
    Do you really not understand the hoarding argument? We've been talking about it for like 6 months now and you still don't get it?
    I understand the argument. I disagree with it. Anyone can hoard their Trophies. In any system. It's a weak argument at best.
    I really don't think you do.

    If you do understand it, why do you disagree with it?
    Because it's not sound.
    First of all, I don't agree that it's actually that common of a thing. I don't suspect people are just sitting on hoards until they can hit Paragon, but let's say they are.
    Preventing someone from advancing isn't going to stop them from hoarding their Trophies. Any Player can choose to save them instead of spend them. At any rate of acquisition.
    Further to that, the value is only limited to what's available to them at that time. When they become Paragon, which is the highest, they're entitled to whatever is in the Store. The argument cancels itself out.
    lol, so you clearly do not get it. The argument isn't about people are hoarding or trying to stop them from hoarding. It's that they're able to earn a bunch of easy tokens and wait to spend them once they raise their title. The fact that they are impatient isn't my problem and doesn't change the fact that there is no logical "the rewards are different" argument.

    Honestly, who TF is arguing against allowing people to hoard???
    Define easy Tokens. That's the point. You're still not acknowledging the fact that people are earning what they earn where they're at.
    Because there is a difference between 'earning' and 'getting' rewards, which you won't admit. They are getting those reards but a certainly not earning them because of the matchmaking.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,299 ★★★★★

    As for "They can hoard it until they hit Paragon.", so can Paragons.

    WTF does this even mean?
    It means nothing is stopping any Player at any progress level from hoarding their Trophies. The limits are the same for everyone. A Paragon can hoard just the same as a Player below. This idea that they're going to gain some kind of unfair advantage by hoarding them (compared to Players that have been Paragon much longer at that) is not logical.
    Do you really not understand the hoarding argument? We've been talking about it for like 6 months now and you still don't get it?
    I understand the argument. I disagree with it. Anyone can hoard their Trophies. In any system. It's a weak argument at best.
    I really don't think you do.

    If you do understand it, why do you disagree with it?
    Because it's not sound.
    First of all, I don't agree that it's actually that common of a thing. I don't suspect people are just sitting on hoards until they can hit Paragon, but let's say they are.
    Preventing someone from advancing isn't going to stop them from hoarding their Trophies. Any Player can choose to save them instead of spend them. At any rate of acquisition.
    Further to that, the value is only limited to what's available to them at that time. When they become Paragon, which is the highest, they're entitled to whatever is in the Store. The argument cancels itself out.
    lol, so you clearly do not get it. The argument isn't about people are hoarding or trying to stop them from hoarding. It's that they're able to earn a bunch of easy tokens and wait to spend them once they raise their title. The fact that they are impatient isn't my problem and doesn't change the fact that there is no logical "the rewards are different" argument.

    Honestly, who TF is arguing against allowing people to hoard???
    Define easy Tokens. That's the point. You're still not acknowledging the fact that people are earning what they earn where they're at.
    Because there is a difference between 'earning' and 'getting' rewards, which you won't admit. They are getting those reards but a certainly not earning them because of the matchmaking.
    Pretty sure you win the Fights, you earn the Tokens. Unless you're talking about the Objectives which are for everyone either way. Just because they're not fighting the Matches you would like them to doesn't mean they're not earning them.
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    Ironman3000Ironman3000 Posts: 1,919 ★★★★★

    As for "They can hoard it until they hit Paragon.", so can Paragons.

    WTF does this even mean?
    It means nothing is stopping any Player at any progress level from hoarding their Trophies. The limits are the same for everyone. A Paragon can hoard just the same as a Player below. This idea that they're going to gain some kind of unfair advantage by hoarding them (compared to Players that have been Paragon much longer at that) is not logical.
    Do you really not understand the hoarding argument? We've been talking about it for like 6 months now and you still don't get it?
    I understand the argument. I disagree with it. Anyone can hoard their Trophies. In any system. It's a weak argument at best.
    I really don't think you do.

    If you do understand it, why do you disagree with it?
    Because it's not sound.
    First of all, I don't agree that it's actually that common of a thing. I don't suspect people are just sitting on hoards until they can hit Paragon, but let's say they are.
    Preventing someone from advancing isn't going to stop them from hoarding their Trophies. Any Player can choose to save them instead of spend them. At any rate of acquisition.
    Further to that, the value is only limited to what's available to them at that time. When they become Paragon, which is the highest, they're entitled to whatever is in the Store. The argument cancels itself out.
    lol, so you clearly do not get it. The argument isn't about people are hoarding or trying to stop them from hoarding. It's that they're able to earn a bunch of easy tokens and wait to spend them once they raise their title. The fact that they are impatient isn't my problem and doesn't change the fact that there is no logical "the rewards are different" argument.

    Honestly, who TF is arguing against allowing people to hoard???
    Define easy Tokens. That's the point. You're still not acknowledging the fact that people are earning what they earn where they're at.
    Because there is a difference between 'earning' and 'getting' rewards, which you won't admit. They are getting those reards but a certainly not earning them because of the matchmaking.
    Pretty sure you win the Fights, you earn the Tokens. Unless you're talking about the Objectives which are for everyone either way. Just because they're not fighting the Matches you would like them to doesn't mean they're not earning them.
    You're just simply wrong about this. There is no further discussion on it.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,299 ★★★★★
    If you would like to agree to disagree, that's fine with me.
    You've made the assertion that because fighting them would be easy kills for you, they're getting easy Rewards.
    I'm adding that I don't feel that's accurate.
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    Ironman3000Ironman3000 Posts: 1,919 ★★★★★
    I do not agree to disagree. What is wrong is wrong.
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    StatureStature Posts: 425 ★★★

    I do not agree to disagree. What is wrong is wrong.

    Well, you are partially right. There are no easy or earned tokens. You anyway get a free upgraded store determined by non-BG related factors, for doing same things other do (with a system that heavily favors you). If there are any easy rewards, those are it.
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    BlueSmirnoffBlueSmirnoff Posts: 10

    It is not false. The primary goal of the Rewards is the Trophies. The value of said Trophies is tied into what's available in the Store, and at what rate. They're not separate. Yes, the Milestones are the same for everyone. Those Trophies only hold a value of what's available. Not what can be available in the future. What's available now.
    The argument that people can hoard them until they progress is moot because once they reach the ceiling and become Paragon, the debate nulls itself. You're no longer debating what's available for someone lower.

    The key word you use is "value"
    Kabam defines what is the level of value for each progression title..... Just look at the unit stores deals and 4th July / Cyber Monday deals. So while a Paragon may get more for their tokens, Kabam has decided that what you can buy with those tokens for a Cavalier is of the same value as to what a Paragon can buy.


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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,299 ★★★★★

    It is not false. The primary goal of the Rewards is the Trophies. The value of said Trophies is tied into what's available in the Store, and at what rate. They're not separate. Yes, the Milestones are the same for everyone. Those Trophies only hold a value of what's available. Not what can be available in the future. What's available now.
    The argument that people can hoard them until they progress is moot because once they reach the ceiling and become Paragon, the debate nulls itself. You're no longer debating what's available for someone lower.

    The key word you use is "value"
    Kabam defines what is the level of value for each progression title..... Just look at the unit stores deals and 4th July / Cyber Monday deals. So while a Paragon may get more for their tokens, Kabam has decided that what you can buy with those tokens for a Cavalier is of the same value as to what a Paragon can buy.


    Well I understand that it's subjective, and the effects of those Resources vary depending on what it does for any particular Account for where they're at. Nevertheless, they're not the "same" for everyone. There are nuances to it.
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    zaspacerzaspacer Posts: 115

    As for "They can hoard it until they hit Paragon.", so can Paragons.

    WTF does this even mean?
    It means nothing is stopping any Player at any progress level from hoarding their Trophies. The limits are the same for everyone. A Paragon can hoard just the same as a Player below. This idea that they're going to gain some kind of unfair advantage by hoarding them (compared to Players that have been Paragon much longer at that) is not logical.
    Do you really not understand the hoarding argument? We've been talking about it for like 6 months now and you still don't get it?
    Do you really think that an Uncollected player hoarding Trophy Tokens (TT) is a winning strategy vs. a Paragon player?

    Suppose an Uncollected (UC) player collects the cap number of TT: 150,000.

    How many seasons will that take them?

    Victory Track (VT) provides 45,000 TT per season. So it takes them 3 seasons to get 135,000 TT. And 4 seasons to get 150,000 (they will hit the TT cap when they finish Gold 1 on Season 4).

    So already we are seeing there might be an advantages difference between an UC player farming 135,000 TT vs 150,000 TT: days budgeted, etc.

    How long does a Season Take?

    Season 7 Dates: Start April 19th, 2023; End May 17th, 2023
    Season 8 Dates: Start May, 24th, 2023; End June 21st, 2023

    Each Season lasts 29 days. There is a 7 day period between Seasons.

    How many days will it take them do get 135,000 or 150,000 TT?

    To get to 135,000 TT will take 73 days (if they farm Season 3's 45k TT in 1 day) to 101 days (if they take all of Season 3 to farm the 45k TT). To get to 150,000 TT will take 109 to 137 days.

    Keep in mind, BG matches take an estimated 10-15 minutes each. It takes 17 wins to complete Gold 1, and 41 wins to complete Vibranium 1. So if a player never lost a match (beaten, bug, etc.) it would take them 2.8 to 4.3 hours to farm Gold 1, and 6.8 to 10.3 hours to farm Vibranium 1.

    What the heck are you proposing they do then that is such a great strategy?

    They've already wasted 73 to 137 days stuck at Uncollected. That's 73-137 days of missed Paragon Daily Crystals, ~3-4 missed Paragon Daily Calendars, ~3-4 missed Paragon and Thronebreaker and Cavalier Side Quest events. Plus (depending on what content they choose to do) things like Paragon AQ, AW, Monthly Quest, access to offers, etc.

    And how much TT would they have over the same period if they just Progressed to Paragon instead and played BG as Paragon? Even if its a Meh skill player and they get stuck at Gold 1 (17,100 TT/season), that's 51,300 to 68,400 TT for the same season time. And with this new "easy progression" to Platinum 1, are Meh skill Paragon players still getting stuck at Gold 1? (for reference, Platinum 1 is 25,200 TT/season). And what if they are a skilled Paragon player, then they can get more TT than an Uncollected player, which makes UC hoarding a total net loser.

    And how much time is it gonna take them to Complete content to get from Uncollected to Paragon? That time is gonna be part of their missed days for Paragon Daily crystals, Paragon Daily Calendar, might affect Side Quest events depending on the player's time and schedule budget, access to offers, etc..

    So take that Uncollected players 135,000 to 150,000 TT and subtract the (rewards only) "opportunity costs":
    73-137 days of missed Paragon Daily Crystals
    ~3-4 missed Paragon Daily Calendars
    ~3-4 Paragon and Thronebreaker and Cavalier Side Quest events
    51,300 to 68,400 TT (if they only get to Gold 1)

    Cross cancel the Uncollected TT vs. Paragon TT.


    135,000 TT hoarding method:

    Meh skill Uncollected player's opportunity cost:
    73-101 days of missed Paragon Daily Crystals
    ~3 missed Paragon Daily Calendars
    ~3 missed Paragon and Thronebreaker and Cavalier Side Quest events
    (+ AW, AQ, Monthly Quest, etc. depending on the player and what they do at Paragon)

    vs.

    Meh skill Paragon player's opportunity cost:
    83,700 Trophy Tokens


    150,000 TT hoarding method:

    Meh skill Uncollected player's opportunity cost:
    109-137 days of Paragon Daily Crystals
    ~3-4 Paragon Daily Calendars
    ~3-4 Paragon and Thronebreaker and Cavalier Side Quest events
    (+ AW, AQ, Monthly Quest, etc. depending on the player and what they do at Paragon)

    vs.

    Meh skill Paragon player's opportunity cost:
    83,700 Trophy Tokens


    Where's the advantage?

    Do you have a different hoarding model? Tell me and we can calculate that and see how it matches up.

    Or is the 6 months of hoarding argument more of a fantasy thing, that some people want to just accept as real, so they can believe it because it makes them feel better? A lot of MCOC is players paying (money, time, etc.) to access a fantasy outcome. As Justin Y. said, "The intent of gacha games is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment". And that is fine too. Culture and people's lives are full of fantasy to help bolster emotion, health, inspiration, and prosperity.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,810 Guardian

    Pretty sure you win the Fights, you earn the Tokens.

    I actually agree with this, at least in a sense. The players can only fight the fights the game presents to them, and if they win, they should get the rewards.

    However, this would be true no matter how the match maker worked. The players who win in Silver earn those tokens. The players who win in Diamond also earn those tokens. Regardless of who they face. The Cav who beats the Cav in Silver earns those tokens by virtue of winning the fight. The Paragon who beats the Cav in Diamond also earns those tokens, because that's who they matched against. The Paragon earned their roster, earned their playing skills, earned their place on VT, and earned every win they get, bugs exempted. If the Cav wants to stand and fight, or if they choose to resign and move on to the next match up, the Paragon still earns that win either way, in exactly the same way the Cav who beats Cavs in Gold earns those rewards.

    They all earn their rewards, they all play the hand they are dealt. That doesn't mean the dealer is dealing fairly, however. Competitions are not supposed to be about who earns rewards, or who deserves rewards. It is supposed to be about who wins more. Usain Bolt didn't win races because he earned those wins. He won races because he was the fastest. The dude used to sometimes coast to the finish line because he was so much faster than his competition he could do the last 20% of the race using the same effort I use to go to the refrigerator. But he still won, because he was the fastest, period.
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    zaspacerzaspacer Posts: 115
    DNA3000 said:

    The Paragon earned their roster, earned their playing skills, earned their place on VT, and earned every win they get, bugs exempted.

    DNA3000 said:


    They all earn their rewards, they all play the hand they are dealt. That doesn't mean the dealer is dealing fairly, however.

    I've drafted last a total of 3 times in my last 26 matches. (And I've only been tracking my draft order for 26 matches)
    I'm currently on a 9 match streak of drafting first.

    Did my opponents "earn" the advantage of getting to draft last against me? Getting to choose their defenders last? Do my opponents also perhaps earn the advantage to have easier AI, or getting better rigged RNG on triggered abilities or having better Champs show up in their draft pools?

    Is the BG mode dealing fairly? Am I playing a fake competition?

    Why aren't we simultaneously making hidden drafting picks, then revealing after the timer expires for each draft group, anyway? 2-2-2-1
    Why aren't we then for the first match simultaneously hidden selecting attackers, reveal to players, then hidden selecting defenders simultaneously, reveal to players? For the first match anyway. Wouldn't that make it both more fair and faster?

    I don't care about matching me up randomly vs. others at my track level if that's how the mode is being set. If that is the rules that are being publicly disclosed. Fine, roll those dice and match me up against whatever mismatches you want. But please let me know if the there is other things in the mode that are unfair dealing that is not being disclosed to players.

    Me finding out about rigged matches by tracking and crunching data stinks.
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    TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,967 ★★★★★
    edited June 2023
    Honestly I had the worst run I’ve ever had today. 8 losses coming off a 9-4 “streak” or something like that. I’m a paragon around 17000 prestige. Most of these rosters were clearly beyond mine - more than my two r5 champs, more r4, more 7-stars, higher prestige. I finally snapped out of it.

    When you do a thing enough, streaks happen. If you get in your head about it, it gets worse. Regardless, you don’t deserve to play people on your level anymore than you deserve to play cavalier alliances in war
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    TheVolTheVol Posts: 37
    I think they should just make the PIs the same (just a suggestion dont cry) and whoever wins is just hands down the more skillful player. End of.

    I dont know the name of it but its kind of like that clash royale gamemode that they release for special events ( could be for gladiators circuit instead of the normal victory track ) or vice versa.

    Only saying this because honestly guys 🤣 you paragon players who have been sweating the game off for years have a very huge roster difference to the casual players. And its not really skillful to have a great roster who can demolish any pleb who steps into the victory track.

    You can agree or disagree i couldnt care less.
    I wouldnt complain about this whatsoever but now its gotten to the point where i cant even grind for the solo objectives lmao.
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    winterthurwinterthur Posts: 7,890 ★★★★★

    TB and can't get out of Gold III. :D:|:(

    Gold II now. B)
    Just reached Gold I. :|
    Aha …

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    Dab_westDab_west Posts: 132
    TheVol said:

    I think they should just make the PIs the same (just a suggestion dont cry) and whoever wins is just hands down the more skillful player. End of.

    I dont know the name of it but its kind of like that clash royale gamemode that they release for special events ( could be for gladiators circuit instead of the normal victory track ) or vice versa.

    Only saying this because honestly guys 🤣 you paragon players who have been sweating the game off for years have a very huge roster difference to the casual players. And its not really skillful to have a great roster who can demolish any pleb who steps into the victory track.

    You can agree or disagree i couldnt care less.
    I wouldnt complain about this whatsoever but now its gotten to the point where i cant even grind for the solo objectives lmao.

    Lol if it’s not skilful to get a large roster u get one then. Then u can still lose to people more skilful than u.
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    GoingBackGoingBack Posts: 111 ★★
    TheVol said:

    I feel like the only people disagreeing are the paragon players who benefit off the free wins xD

    If you dont have the roster and/or the skill why should you get to progress farther? Why do you feel you should make it past Plat? I am so tired of people complaining that they can’t make it past Victory track. You are able to progress as far as your roster and skill will allow you to progress.
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    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,299 ★★★★★

    dude. get yourself a good mod and climb to celescial. they barely ban modders and even if you get banned. it's a week ban. so much rewards for a week off game. lol

    This is just....I can't.
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    TheVolTheVol Posts: 37
    Dab_west said:

    TheVol said:

    I think they should just make the PIs the same (just a suggestion dont cry) and whoever wins is just hands down the more skillful player. End of.

    I dont know the name of it but its kind of like that clash royale gamemode that they release for special events ( could be for gladiators circuit instead of the normal victory track ) or vice versa.

    Only saying this because honestly guys 🤣 you paragon players who have been sweating the game off for years have a very huge roster difference to the casual players. And its not really skillful to have a great roster who can demolish any pleb who steps into the victory track.

    You can agree or disagree i couldnt care less.
    I wouldnt complain about this whatsoever but now its gotten to the point where i cant even grind for the solo objectives lmao.

    Lol if it’s not skilful to get a large roster u get one then. Then u can still lose to people more skilful than u.
    U can literally pay to win your way to a good roster
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    TheVolTheVol Posts: 37
    GoingBack said:

    TheVol said:

    I feel like the only people disagreeing are the paragon players who benefit off the free wins xD

    If you dont have the roster and/or the skill why should you get to progress farther? Why do you feel you should make it past Plat? I am so tired of people complaining that they can’t make it past Victory track. You are able to progress as far as your roster and skill will allow you to progress.
    I dont care about victory track if you had eyes and could read i mainly complained about not being able to do solo objectives
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    CoppinCoppin Posts: 2,601 ★★★★★
    TheVol said:

    Dab_west said:

    TheVol said:

    I think they should just make the PIs the same (just a suggestion dont cry) and whoever wins is just hands down the more skillful player. End of.

    I dont know the name of it but its kind of like that clash royale gamemode that they release for special events ( could be for gladiators circuit instead of the normal victory track ) or vice versa.

    Only saying this because honestly guys 🤣 you paragon players who have been sweating the game off for years have a very huge roster difference to the casual players. And its not really skillful to have a great roster who can demolish any pleb who steps into the victory track.

    You can agree or disagree i couldnt care less.
    I wouldnt complain about this whatsoever but now its gotten to the point where i cant even grind for the solo objectives lmao.

    Lol if it’s not skilful to get a large roster u get one then. Then u can still lose to people more skilful than u.
    U can literally pay to win your way to a good roster
    I dunno your personal situation...
    But if we are talking about UC/Cav.. saying pay to win is hilarious.. UC/Cav haven't even done the F2P minimum requirements and accuse of P2W.,.
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    Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,331 ★★★★★
    TheVol said:

    GoingBack said:

    TheVol said:

    I feel like the only people disagreeing are the paragon players who benefit off the free wins xD

    If you dont have the roster and/or the skill why should you get to progress farther? Why do you feel you should make it past Plat? I am so tired of people complaining that they can’t make it past Victory track. You are able to progress as far as your roster and skill will allow you to progress.
    I dont care about victory track if you had eyes and could read i mainly complained about not being able to do solo objectives
    You can do half the objectives- play 3 matches everyday for 600 tokens. Maybe you will win a match or 2 at some point to get a few of the win objectives done
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    LexSaviLexSavi Posts: 171

    dude. get yourself a good mod and climb to celescial. they barely ban modders and even if you get banned. it's a week ban. so much rewards for a week off game. lol

    Going to go out on a limb here and assume that encouraging any form of cheating is against forum rules. Not to mention that the one of the only things everyone tends to agree on in this forum is their universal disdain for cheaters, and for good reason. I hope you just made a bad joke, but either way, do better.
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    TheVolTheVol Posts: 37
    Graves_3 said:

    TheVol said:

    GoingBack said:

    TheVol said:

    I feel like the only people disagreeing are the paragon players who benefit off the free wins xD

    If you dont have the roster and/or the skill why should you get to progress farther? Why do you feel you should make it past Plat? I am so tired of people complaining that they can’t make it past Victory track. You are able to progress as far as your roster and skill will allow you to progress.
    I dont care about victory track if you had eyes and could read i mainly complained about not being able to do solo objectives
    You can do half the objectives- play 3 matches everyday for 600 tokens. Maybe you will win a match or 2 at some point to get a few of the win objectives done
    Does it look like i want to progress every 3 days
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 ★★★★
    TheVol said:

    Graves_3 said:

    TheVol said:

    GoingBack said:

    TheVol said:

    I feel like the only people disagreeing are the paragon players who benefit off the free wins xD

    If you dont have the roster and/or the skill why should you get to progress farther? Why do you feel you should make it past Plat? I am so tired of people complaining that they can’t make it past Victory track. You are able to progress as far as your roster and skill will allow you to progress.
    I dont care about victory track if you had eyes and could read i mainly complained about not being able to do solo objectives
    You can do half the objectives- play 3 matches everyday for 600 tokens. Maybe you will win a match or 2 at some point to get a few of the win objectives done
    Does it look like i want to progress every 3 days
    If you wanna progress faster, put in the work
  • Options
    Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,331 ★★★★★
    edited June 2023
    TheVol said:

    Graves_3 said:

    TheVol said:

    GoingBack said:

    TheVol said:

    I feel like the only people disagreeing are the paragon players who benefit off the free wins xD

    If you dont have the roster and/or the skill why should you get to progress farther? Why do you feel you should make it past Plat? I am so tired of people complaining that they can’t make it past Victory track. You are able to progress as far as your roster and skill will allow you to progress.
    I dont care about victory track if you had eyes and could read i mainly complained about not being able to do solo objectives
    You can do half the objectives- play 3 matches everyday for 600 tokens. Maybe you will win a match or 2 at some point to get a few of the win objectives done
    Does it look like i want to progress every 3 days
    Then you have to complete story content or work on building your roster. It seems like you want everything and you want it now and the only way to do that is drop some serious money.
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    Ironman3000Ironman3000 Posts: 1,919 ★★★★★
    zaspacer said:

    As for "They can hoard it until they hit Paragon.", so can Paragons.

    WTF does this even mean?
    It means nothing is stopping any Player at any progress level from hoarding their Trophies. The limits are the same for everyone. A Paragon can hoard just the same as a Player below. This idea that they're going to gain some kind of unfair advantage by hoarding them (compared to Players that have been Paragon much longer at that) is not logical.
    Do you really not understand the hoarding argument? We've been talking about it for like 6 months now and you still don't get it?
    Do you really think that an Uncollected player hoarding Trophy Tokens (TT) is a winning strategy vs. a Paragon player?

    Suppose an Uncollected (UC) player collects the cap number of TT: 150,000.

    How many seasons will that take them?

    Victory Track (VT) provides 45,000 TT per season. So it takes them 3 seasons to get 135,000 TT. And 4 seasons to get 150,000 (they will hit the TT cap when they finish Gold 1 on Season 4).

    So already we are seeing there might be an advantages difference between an UC player farming 135,000 TT vs 150,000 TT: days budgeted, etc.

    How long does a Season Take?

    Season 7 Dates: Start April 19th, 2023; End May 17th, 2023
    Season 8 Dates: Start May, 24th, 2023; End June 21st, 2023

    Each Season lasts 29 days. There is a 7 day period between Seasons.

    How many days will it take them do get 135,000 or 150,000 TT?

    To get to 135,000 TT will take 73 days (if they farm Season 3's 45k TT in 1 day) to 101 days (if they take all of Season 3 to farm the 45k TT). To get to 150,000 TT will take 109 to 137 days.

    Keep in mind, BG matches take an estimated 10-15 minutes each. It takes 17 wins to complete Gold 1, and 41 wins to complete Vibranium 1. So if a player never lost a match (beaten, bug, etc.) it would take them 2.8 to 4.3 hours to farm Gold 1, and 6.8 to 10.3 hours to farm Vibranium 1.

    What the heck are you proposing they do then that is such a great strategy?

    They've already wasted 73 to 137 days stuck at Uncollected. That's 73-137 days of missed Paragon Daily Crystals, ~3-4 missed Paragon Daily Calendars, ~3-4 missed Paragon and Thronebreaker and Cavalier Side Quest events. Plus (depending on what content they choose to do) things like Paragon AQ, AW, Monthly Quest, access to offers, etc.

    And how much TT would they have over the same period if they just Progressed to Paragon instead and played BG as Paragon? Even if its a Meh skill player and they get stuck at Gold 1 (17,100 TT/season), that's 51,300 to 68,400 TT for the same season time. And with this new "easy progression" to Platinum 1, are Meh skill Paragon players still getting stuck at Gold 1? (for reference, Platinum 1 is 25,200 TT/season). And what if they are a skilled Paragon player, then they can get more TT than an Uncollected player, which makes UC hoarding a total net loser.

    And how much time is it gonna take them to Complete content to get from Uncollected to Paragon? That time is gonna be part of their missed days for Paragon Daily crystals, Paragon Daily Calendar, might affect Side Quest events depending on the player's time and schedule budget, access to offers, etc..

    So take that Uncollected players 135,000 to 150,000 TT and subtract the (rewards only) "opportunity costs":
    73-137 days of missed Paragon Daily Crystals
    ~3-4 missed Paragon Daily Calendars
    ~3-4 Paragon and Thronebreaker and Cavalier Side Quest events
    51,300 to 68,400 TT (if they only get to Gold 1)

    Cross cancel the Uncollected TT vs. Paragon TT.


    135,000 TT hoarding method:

    Meh skill Uncollected player's opportunity cost:
    73-101 days of missed Paragon Daily Crystals
    ~3 missed Paragon Daily Calendars
    ~3 missed Paragon and Thronebreaker and Cavalier Side Quest events
    (+ AW, AQ, Monthly Quest, etc. depending on the player and what they do at Paragon)

    vs.

    Meh skill Paragon player's opportunity cost:
    83,700 Trophy Tokens


    150,000 TT hoarding method:

    Meh skill Uncollected player's opportunity cost:
    109-137 days of Paragon Daily Crystals
    ~3-4 Paragon Daily Calendars
    ~3-4 Paragon and Thronebreaker and Cavalier Side Quest events
    (+ AW, AQ, Monthly Quest, etc. depending on the player and what they do at Paragon)

    vs.

    Meh skill Paragon player's opportunity cost:
    83,700 Trophy Tokens


    Where's the advantage?

    Do you have a different hoarding model? Tell me and we can calculate that and see how it matches up.

    Or is the 6 months of hoarding argument more of a fantasy thing, that some people want to just accept as real, so they can believe it because it makes them feel better? A lot of MCOC is players paying (money, time, etc.) to access a fantasy outcome. As Justin Y. said, "The intent of gacha games is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment". And that is fine too. Culture and people's lives are full of fantasy to help bolster emotion, health, inspiration, and prosperity.
    lol, this is so much writing arguing a point that literally zero people have made.

    Because you all see to be having trouble, the "hoarding" argument is that low players don't have to spend their tokens and can hoard them until they raise their level, which is the only argument vs the rearda being different.

    Keep up people.
  • Options
    Ironman3000Ironman3000 Posts: 1,919 ★★★★★
    TheVol said:

    I think they should just make the PIs the same (just a suggestion dont cry) and whoever wins is just hands down the more skillful player. End of.

    I dont know the name of it but its kind of like that clash royale gamemode that they release for special events ( could be for gladiators circuit instead of the normal victory track ) or vice versa.

    Only saying this because honestly guys 🤣 you paragon players who have been sweating the game off for years have a very huge roster difference to the casual players. And its not really skillful to have a great roster who can demolish any pleb who steps into the victory track.

    You can agree or disagree i couldnt care less.
    I wouldnt complain about this whatsoever but now its gotten to the point where i cant even grind for the solo objectives lmao.

    lol, if gaining skill and a roster is so easy then why isn't everyone a Paragon with the skills of a boss killer?

    Awful argument.
  • Options
    Ironman3000Ironman3000 Posts: 1,919 ★★★★★

    TheVol said:

    Graves_3 said:

    TheVol said:

    GoingBack said:

    TheVol said:

    I feel like the only people disagreeing are the paragon players who benefit off the free wins xD

    If you dont have the roster and/or the skill why should you get to progress farther? Why do you feel you should make it past Plat? I am so tired of people complaining that they can’t make it past Victory track. You are able to progress as far as your roster and skill will allow you to progress.
    I dont care about victory track if you had eyes and could read i mainly complained about not being able to do solo objectives
    You can do half the objectives- play 3 matches everyday for 600 tokens. Maybe you will win a match or 2 at some point to get a few of the win objectives done
    Does it look like i want to progress every 3 days
    If you wanna progress faster, put in the work
    This is what gets me. If they cried on the forums less and just actually did the content they'd be Paragon by now. It really isn't hard, at all, to get Paragon.
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