Summoner store and 4th of july deals

Maxwell24Maxwell24 Member Posts: 432 ★★★
edited June 2023 in General Discussion
Are 4th of july deals gonna be In game and in the summoner market? And if so does that mean you can just double dip and get double the rewards? Just kinda confused cause kabam has just been silent and refused to really answer anything for the past month and imo the whole idea of a summoner store where your able to pay with CVS and not even kidding when I say dollar tree gift cards is just sketchy af, and I can't forget to mention the many people I'm my line chats that have bought stuff only for their money to be stolen and the item not given to then

Comments

  • Josh51700Josh51700 Member Posts: 88 ★
    There’s a tab in the web store itself so they’ll definitely have something in the store. I have no clue how they’ll go about it but they do have to be careful with it imo. Double dipping aside it would be hard for them to completely eliminate the store in game and buying through apple/google play. Those App Stores might get upset about not making money on all purchases. Similar to the way fortnite got taken down from their store for an issue regarding pay in store and other things. So imo the web store will have completely different purchasable items and the in app store will stick strictly to units but who knows.
  • ArifuteraArifutera Member Posts: 216 ★★★
    Any answer would help us prepare for this
  • bm3eppsbm3epps Member Posts: 1,157 ★★★
    I seriously doubt you would be able to double dip when it comes to the rewards. If anything I see them probably making a one time offer that's based on progression.
  • Josh51700Josh51700 Member Posts: 88 ★
    bm3epps said:

    I seriously doubt you would be able to double dip when it comes to the rewards. If anything I see them probably making a one time offer that's based on progression.

    Most realistic scenario! Especially so they don’t get into deep dirt with the app stores
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    Josh51700 said:

    There’s a tab in the web store itself so they’ll definitely have something in the store. I have no clue how they’ll go about it but they do have to be careful with it imo. Double dipping aside it would be hard for them to completely eliminate the store in game and buying through apple/google play. Those App Stores might get upset about not making money on all purchases. Similar to the way fortnite got taken down from their store for an issue regarding pay in store and other things. So imo the web store will have completely different purchasable items and the in app store will stick strictly to units but who knows.

    The net result of the Epic v Apple cut and the Cameron v Apple settlement is that Apple no longer bars developers from providing alternate payment systems for purchases related to App store apps provided they continue to use Apple's in-app purchase system for direct in-app purchases.

    In layman's terms, Kabam can sell stuff in their own store that you can use in MCOC, provided that the direct buy-me buttons in the actual game still use Apple's (and Google's) in-app purchasing systems. They just have to tell you to explicitly go to that other store and use it. They can't put buttons in the game that directly link to specific purchases (as far as I'm aware). That's how every game company that is doing this is doing it: directing players to their own completely separate store, where they can buy things that get added to their game account.

    Beyond that, there are no restrictions on what they can sell in either place, and Apple cannot take direct action upon app developers who decide to use their own stores within these guidelines.
  • MrSakuragiMrSakuragi Member Posts: 5,288 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Josh51700 said:

    There’s a tab in the web store itself so they’ll definitely have something in the store. I have no clue how they’ll go about it but they do have to be careful with it imo. Double dipping aside it would be hard for them to completely eliminate the store in game and buying through apple/google play. Those App Stores might get upset about not making money on all purchases. Similar to the way fortnite got taken down from their store for an issue regarding pay in store and other things. So imo the web store will have completely different purchasable items and the in app store will stick strictly to units but who knows.

    The net result of the Epic v Apple cut and the Cameron v Apple settlement is that Apple no longer bars developers from providing alternate payment systems for purchases related to App store apps provided they continue to use Apple's in-app purchase system for direct in-app purchases.

    In layman's terms, Kabam can sell stuff in their own store that you can use in MCOC, provided that the direct buy-me buttons in the actual game still use Apple's (and Google's) in-app purchasing systems. They just have to tell you to explicitly go to that other store and use it. They can't put buttons in the game that directly link to specific purchases (as far as I'm aware). That's how every game company that is doing this is doing it: directing players to their own completely separate store, where they can buy things that get added to their game account.

    Beyond that, there are no restrictions on what they can sell in either place, and Apple cannot take direct action upon app developers who decide to use their own stores within these guidelines.
    As of now, pending appeal, links to outside stores can be placed within the game. According to MSNBC’s interpretation:


  • Josh51700Josh51700 Member Posts: 88 ★
    edited June 2023
    DNA3000 said:

    Josh51700 said:

    There’s a tab in the web store itself so they’ll definitely have something in the store. I have no clue how they’ll go about it but they do have to be careful with it imo. Double dipping aside it would be hard for them to completely eliminate the store in game and buying through apple/google play. Those App Stores might get upset about not making money on all purchases. Similar to the way fortnite got taken down from their store for an issue regarding pay in store and other things. So imo the web store will have completely different purchasable items and the in app store will stick strictly to units but who knows.

    The net result of the Epic v Apple cut and the Cameron v Apple settlement is that Apple no longer bars developers from providing alternate payment systems for purchases related to App store apps provided they continue to use Apple's in-app purchase system for direct in-app purchases.

    In layman's terms, Kabam can sell stuff in their own store that you can use in MCOC, provided that the direct buy-me buttons in the actual game still use Apple's (and Google's) in-app purchasing systems. They just have to tell you to explicitly go to that other store and use it. They can't put buttons in the game that directly link to specific purchases (as far as I'm aware). That's how every game company that is doing this is doing it: directing players to their own completely separate store, where they can buy things that get added to their game account.

    Beyond that, there are no restrictions on what they can sell in either place, and Apple cannot take direct action upon app developers who decide to use their own stores within these guidelines.
    Yes I know the issues with epic were based of something different but it’s in a similar scenario where money was involved through in app purchases. The issue is that if apple and google play don’t like that some of their biggest money making days on a game that makes both kabam AND the app stores millions over the years, is just now converting over to a web store where kabam makes essentially full profit and none for apple or google play even though that app is currently available on their store. If they do a double dip scenario and do offer very similar to what’s in game I can almost guarantee apple and google play won’t just sit by and allow all that money to slip past them. The offers in game with have to have a higher limit than the web stores for apple and google to not complain about money issues. After all this app is only alive and active due to those app stores allowing it to be around and available. If all of a sudden kabam does their own way of making money without apple and google being in on the profit it may arise some issues. All in all I wouldn’t be surprised if kabam did make the offers better on the web store and being purchable multiple times and multiple different offers. But I’d also expect to see a few offers based on progression at a 1 buy limit with nothing to do with the in game offers that way everyone in the companies are happy and there isn’t a risk taken by kabam
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    MrSakuragi said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Josh51700 said:

    There’s a tab in the web store itself so they’ll definitely have something in the store. I have no clue how they’ll go about it but they do have to be careful with it imo. Double dipping aside it would be hard for them to completely eliminate the store in game and buying through apple/google play. Those App Stores might get upset about not making money on all purchases. Similar to the way fortnite got taken down from their store for an issue regarding pay in store and other things. So imo the web store will have completely different purchasable items and the in app store will stick strictly to units but who knows.

    The net result of the Epic v Apple cut and the Cameron v Apple settlement is that Apple no longer bars developers from providing alternate payment systems for purchases related to App store apps provided they continue to use Apple's in-app purchase system for direct in-app purchases.

    In layman's terms, Kabam can sell stuff in their own store that you can use in MCOC, provided that the direct buy-me buttons in the actual game still use Apple's (and Google's) in-app purchasing systems. They just have to tell you to explicitly go to that other store and use it. They can't put buttons in the game that directly link to specific purchases (as far as I'm aware). That's how every game company that is doing this is doing it: directing players to their own completely separate store, where they can buy things that get added to their game account.

    Beyond that, there are no restrictions on what they can sell in either place, and Apple cannot take direct action upon app developers who decide to use their own stores within these guidelines.
    As of now, pending appeal, links to outside stores can be placed within the game. According to MSNBC’s interpretation:
    This was part of the "anti-steering" issues, and while this is a bit fuzzy since the courts upheld Apple's right to require app developers to use their in-app purchase mechanism as not illegally anti-competitive, the combination of the two rulings has been interpreted as allowing app developers to link *to* their outside stores, but allows Apple to forbid app developers from *using* alternate payment systems within the app. In other words, you can link to *stores* but not *purchases*.

    So to be safe, every instance I'm aware of where game operators are using their own stores seems to be following the rule that you can put a button that says "we have a store over here" that bounces you completely out of the game and into a web store, but they are not (to the best of my knowledge) putting buttons that say "buy this, we'll charge you directly without paying Apple their cut."
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    Josh51700 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Josh51700 said:

    There’s a tab in the web store itself so they’ll definitely have something in the store. I have no clue how they’ll go about it but they do have to be careful with it imo. Double dipping aside it would be hard for them to completely eliminate the store in game and buying through apple/google play. Those App Stores might get upset about not making money on all purchases. Similar to the way fortnite got taken down from their store for an issue regarding pay in store and other things. So imo the web store will have completely different purchasable items and the in app store will stick strictly to units but who knows.

    The net result of the Epic v Apple cut and the Cameron v Apple settlement is that Apple no longer bars developers from providing alternate payment systems for purchases related to App store apps provided they continue to use Apple's in-app purchase system for direct in-app purchases.

    In layman's terms, Kabam can sell stuff in their own store that you can use in MCOC, provided that the direct buy-me buttons in the actual game still use Apple's (and Google's) in-app purchasing systems. They just have to tell you to explicitly go to that other store and use it. They can't put buttons in the game that directly link to specific purchases (as far as I'm aware). That's how every game company that is doing this is doing it: directing players to their own completely separate store, where they can buy things that get added to their game account.

    Beyond that, there are no restrictions on what they can sell in either place, and Apple cannot take direct action upon app developers who decide to use their own stores within these guidelines.
    Yes I know the issues with epic were based of something different but it’s in a similar scenario where money was involved through in app purchases. The issue is that if apple and google play don’t like that some of their biggest money making days on a game that makes both kabam AND the app stores millions over the years, is just now converting over to a web store where kabam makes essentially full profit and none for apple or google play even though that app is currently available on their store. If they do a double dip scenario and do offer very similar to what’s in game I can almost guarantee apple and google play won’t just sit by and allow all that money to slip past them. The offers in game with have to have a higher limit than the web stores for apple and google to not complain about money issues. After all this app is only alive and active due to those app stores allowing it to be around and available. If all of a sudden kabam does their own way of making money without apple and google being in on the profit it may arise some issues. All in all I wouldn’t be surprised if kabam did make the offers better on the web store and being purchable multiple times and multiple different offers. But I’d also expect to see a few offers based on progression at a 1 buy limit with nothing to do with the in game offers that way everyone in the companies are happy and there isn’t a risk taken by kabam
    Apple cannot act in the manner you describe, because that would be a violation of the settlement they legally agreed to in the Cameron v Apple suit.

    See: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/08/apple-us-developers-agree-to-app-store-updates/
    To give developers even more flexibility to reach their customers, Apple is also clarifying that developers can use communications, such as email, to share information about payment methods outside of their iOS app. As always, developers will not pay Apple a commission on any purchases taking place outside of their app or the App Store. Users must consent to the communication and have the right to opt out.
  • HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Member Posts: 1,054 ★★★★
    bm3epps said:

    I seriously doubt you would be able to double dip when it comes to the rewards. If anything I see them probably making a one time offer that's based on progression.

    Especially since they could have done away with deal limits on the game ages ago.
  • PikoluPikolu Member, Guardian Posts: 7,771 Guardian
    Something to keep in mind is some of the deals could just be transferred to the webstore. For example, everything recently has had a limit of 4, but kabam could have a limit of 2 in game and a limit of 2 in the webstore too.

    I highly doubt they would do that, but it is a possibility.
  • Maja1988Maja1988 Member Posts: 11 ★
    @Kabam Miike
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    edited June 2023
    Josh51700 said:

    What I’m saying should be taken with a grain of salt. What I’m saying has nothing to do with that contract but what I am saying is that I’m a made up scenario kabam offers only a few things that aren’t even let say worthy of buying compared to the offers on their website, and most of the players merge over to that website, and no longer buy anything through an AppStore and the app stores profit margins fall heavy noticeable in one week. They’ll have a problem because in their contract they never said the game companies can be shady and move all money flow from the App Store who is providing the game all availability to be played. Again I highly doubt kabam would do anything remotely close to what I just said. It’s all hypothetical but let’s be honest that contract only protects kabam from advertising it’s website and making it know but it does not allow them to essentially fully merge all profits into it cause then at that point apple and google play will be allowing this game that they essentially have all control over how people even play it to make no money at all whatsoever. You are talking about a profit drop from probably 30-40% of what they make to let’s say 5% from the people who don’t buy off the store.

    Apple could just decide to make your phone explode unless you send them money. I'm not saying they will, I'm just making up a scenario where it is a possibility. They could also buy Alphabet and force Google to add this feature to all Android phones. Again, I'm not saying they will, I'm just saying there are scenarios where they would. It is both shady and messy, but there's no contract terms that forbid it.
  • BeeweeBeewee Member Posts: 556 ★★★★
    So will people be allowed to double dip? Or nah?
  • MrSakuragiMrSakuragi Member Posts: 5,288 ★★★★★
    Beewee said:

    So will people be allowed to double dip? Or nah?

    Currently unknown if offers will be on both platforms, in which format and in which quantities and limits.
  • DarkestDestroyerDarkestDestroyer Member Posts: 2,887 ★★★★★
    Josh51700 said:

    There’s a tab in the web store itself so they’ll definitely have something in the store. I have no clue how they’ll go about it but they do have to be careful with it imo. Double dipping aside it would be hard for them to completely eliminate the store in game and buying through apple/google play. Those App Stores might get upset about not making money on all purchases. Similar to the way fortnite got taken down from their store for an issue regarding pay in store and other things. So imo the web store will have completely different purchasable items and the in app store will stick strictly to units but who knows.

    I think the whole trial left open a loophole to allow kabam to create their own store, so even if Apple or Googleplay get upset, they can’t really do anything.

    It’s pretty clever from kabam in all fairness, but it just hurts even more that a 40unit revive was a huge deal and could of hurt them, they really done us over with that, it feels to me still anyway.

    Since that, they have had a couple events that would of generated millions.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    DarkestDestroyer said:

    Josh51700 said:

    There’s a tab in the web store itself so they’ll definitely have something in the store. I have no clue how they’ll go about it but they do have to be careful with it imo. Double dipping aside it would be hard for them to completely eliminate the store in game and buying through apple/google play. Those App Stores might get upset about not making money on all purchases. Similar to the way fortnite got taken down from their store for an issue regarding pay in store and other things. So imo the web store will have completely different purchasable items and the in app store will stick strictly to units but who knows.

    I think the whole trial left open a loophole to allow kabam to create their own store, so even if Apple or Googleplay get upset, they can’t really do anything.
    It is worth noting that the company Kabam is using to implement the web store - xsolla - has already done this for many other games and apps. It is almost certainly not a coincidence that Kabam is using them to implement their store. They have already navigated this problem of outside payment systems for apps hosted on Apple and Google app stores many times already.

    If Apple or Google were going to go after anyone, they would probably go after xsolla directly, and go after their entire customer list simultaneously, which seems unlikely. It is important to note they got Epic on a technicality. App developers could *always* set up external stores. That's how Amazon can sell stuff you can still use in apps on iPhones. You can buy, say, Kindle books on Amazon and read them in the Kindle app. Apple can't stop that. Epic took the extra step of actually overriding the in-app purchase system in Fortnite in violation of Apple's developer agreement. That's what gave Apple the right to kick them off the platform.

    While I'm sure both Apple and Google would love it if everyone bought everything exclusively in their platforms, that's not an actual option they can enforce. They can control what you do on their platforms, but not what you do outside of their platforms. Attempting to do so would expose them to lawsuits they almost certainly would not want to entertain in court.
  • MrSakuragiMrSakuragi Member Posts: 5,288 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DarkestDestroyer said:

    Josh51700 said:

    There’s a tab in the web store itself so they’ll definitely have something in the store. I have no clue how they’ll go about it but they do have to be careful with it imo. Double dipping aside it would be hard for them to completely eliminate the store in game and buying through apple/google play. Those App Stores might get upset about not making money on all purchases. Similar to the way fortnite got taken down from their store for an issue regarding pay in store and other things. So imo the web store will have completely different purchasable items and the in app store will stick strictly to units but who knows.

    I think the whole trial left open a loophole to allow kabam to create their own store, so even if Apple or Googleplay get upset, they can’t really do anything.
    It is worth noting that the company Kabam is using to implement the web store - xsolla - has already done this for many other games and apps. It is almost certainly not a coincidence that Kabam is using them to implement their store. They have already navigated this problem of outside payment systems for apps hosted on Apple and Google app stores many times already.

    If Apple or Google were going to go after anyone, they would probably go after xsolla directly, and go after their entire customer list simultaneously, which seems unlikely. It is important to note they got Epic on a technicality. App developers could *always* set up external stores. That's how Amazon can sell stuff you can still use in apps on iPhones. You can buy, say, Kindle books on Amazon and read them in the Kindle app. Apple can't stop that. Epic took the extra step of actually overriding the in-app purchase system in Fortnite in violation of Apple's developer agreement. That's what gave Apple the right to kick them off the platform.

    While I'm sure both Apple and Google would love it if everyone bought everything exclusively in their platforms, that's not an actual option they can enforce. They can control what you do on their platforms, but not what you do outside of their platforms. Attempting to do so would expose them to lawsuits they almost certainly would not want to entertain in court.
    Any idea how xsolla operates in relation to Apple? Still a percentage of sales (though less than 30%)? Flat fee for their platform and API integration? Other?
  • Josh51700Josh51700 Member Posts: 88 ★
    DarkestDestroyer said:

    Josh51700 said:

    There’s a tab in the web store itself so they’ll definitely have something in the store. I have no clue how they’ll go about it but they do have to be careful with it imo. Double dipping aside it would be hard for them to completely eliminate the store in game and buying through apple/google play. Those App Stores might get upset about not making money on all purchases. Similar to the way fortnite got taken down from their store for an issue regarding pay in store and other things. So imo the web store will have completely different purchasable items and the in app store will stick strictly to units but who knows.

    I think the whole trial left open a loophole to allow kabam to create their own store, so even if Apple or Googleplay get upset, they can’t really do anything.

    It’s pretty clever from kabam in all fairness, but it just hurts even more that a 40unit revive was a huge deal and could of hurt them, they really done us over with that, it feels to me still anyway.

    Since that, they have had a couple events that would of generated millions.
    Overall my point was if apple/google is no longer making any profit from the game they’ll just take it off the App Store….which they can and they have all right too if kabam will money grab from something else and keep more profit. So yes it’s clever for them for the time being till they make the companies upset for promoting their game all over their platform to be able to download yet don’t make much or next to nothing on it anymore.
  • Josh51700Josh51700 Member Posts: 88 ★
    DNA3000 said:

    Josh51700 said:

    What I’m saying should be taken with a grain of salt. What I’m saying has nothing to do with that contract but what I am saying is that I’m a made up scenario kabam offers only a few things that aren’t even let say worthy of buying compared to the offers on their website, and most of the players merge over to that website, and no longer buy anything through an AppStore and the app stores profit margins fall heavy noticeable in one week. They’ll have a problem because in their contract they never said the game companies can be shady and move all money flow from the App Store who is providing the game all availability to be played. Again I highly doubt kabam would do anything remotely close to what I just said. It’s all hypothetical but let’s be honest that contract only protects kabam from advertising it’s website and making it know but it does not allow them to essentially fully merge all profits into it cause then at that point apple and google play will be allowing this game that they essentially have all control over how people even play it to make no money at all whatsoever. You are talking about a profit drop from probably 30-40% of what they make to let’s say 5% from the people who don’t buy off the store.

    Apple could just decide to make your phone explode unless you send them money. I'm not saying they will, I'm just making up a scenario where it is a possibility. They could also buy Alphabet and force Google to add this feature to all Android phones. Again, I'm not saying they will, I'm just saying there are scenarios where they would. It is both shady and messy, but there's no contract terms that forbid it.
    Wow you are hilarious! Want a cookie? Point was they can take the game off the store at any given time. If they promote this game that’s making millions of dollars yet they get next to none of the profit anymore they’ll be upset lol let’s say you were working for a company to promote a product and they are doing outstandingly well, and they just one day randomly start making more money from some website for promotion and start paying you less for really no reason other than this new website they choose to promote through instead. All hypothetical BUT answer me this, the company does that to you what do YOU do? You gonna stand around and still give full support? Be honest.
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