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I Don't Want to Use Zemo Anymore

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    Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Posts: 781 ★★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ORHypeBuffed said:

    @Colinwhitworth69
    You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
    The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

    Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.

    No, he was worse.
    Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
    Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc
    Yes, I do. If a Champ can lock the opponent in place and perform an infinite Special Lock you can cycle through infinitely, then that is about as broken as it gets. There's no getting out of that for the AI.
    Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo
    That doesn't freeze them in place and prevent them from moving.
    This is an impressively unique response. How does the fact that they don’t move matter in this case?
  • Options
    KnightOfTheRealmKnightOfTheRealm Posts: 914 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ORHypeBuffed said:

    @Colinwhitworth69
    You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
    The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

    Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.

    No, he was worse.
    Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
    Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc
    Yes, I do. If a Champ can lock the opponent in place and perform an infinite Special Lock you can cycle through infinitely, then that is about as broken as it gets. There's no getting out of that for the AI.
    Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo
    That doesn't freeze them in place and prevent them from moving.
    So??
  • Options
    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,550 ★★★★★
    edited July 2023
    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ORHypeBuffed said:

    @Colinwhitworth69
    You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
    The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

    Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.

    No, he was worse.
    Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
    Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc
    Yes, I do. If a Champ can lock the opponent in place and perform an infinite Special Lock you can cycle through infinitely, then that is about as broken as it gets. There's no getting out of that for the AI.
    Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo
    Well, for the Doom cycle to work, the champion has to be susceptible to Stun, and also to Power Steal, and ideally, also to Shock and Stagger, for starters.

    And they have to not inflict Slow or Petrify.

    So there are plenty of ways in which this can be disabled. That's pretty much the difference.

    You could not, for example, use the Doom cycle on the Collector, Grandmaster, most of the Summer of Pain or Eternity of Pain.

    Any time the Devs wanted the Doom cycle out of the picture, they had a plethora of nodes that could do it.

    There isn't a single champion in the game immune to Root, nor - please correct me if I'm wrong - is there any effect currently in the game that enables an opponent to break out of a well-executed Root Lock.
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    UnOriginalUnOriginal Posts: 727 ★★★
    The only thing i can tale of this situacion
    We Will not get a 6* magik anytime soon
  • Options
    KnightOfTheRealmKnightOfTheRealm Posts: 914 ★★★
    Magrailothos said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ORHypeBuffed said:

    @Colinwhitworth69
    You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
    The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

    Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.

    No, he was worse.
    Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
    Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc
    Yes, I do. If a Champ can lock the opponent in place and perform an infinite Special Lock you can cycle through infinitely, then that is about as broken as it gets. There's no getting out of that for the AI.
    Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo
    Well, for the Doom cycle to work, the champion has to be susceptible to Stun, and also to Power Steal, and ideally, also to Shock and Stagger, for starters.

    And they have to not inflict Slow or Petrify.

    So there are plenty of ways in which this can be disabled. That's pretty much the difference.

    You could not, for example, use the Doom cycle on the Collector, Grandmaster, most of the Summer of Pain or Eternity of Pain.

    Any time the Devs wanted the Doom cycle out of the picture, they had a plethora of nodes that could do it.

    There isn't a single champion in the game immune to Root, nor - please correct me if I'm wrong - is there any effect currently in the game that enables an opponent to break out of a well-executed Root Lock.
    Almost nobody is immune to stun or power steal, and shocks/staggers aren’t needed at all in his rotation. Look at korg for example.
    Very few things can shut him down, ironically the class he’s typically worst against is cosmic (hulkling with his immunities, CGR being incin immune, and herc being stun immune)
  • Options
    CyborgNinja135CyborgNinja135 Posts: 1,117 ★★★★
    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ORHypeBuffed said:

    @Colinwhitworth69
    You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
    The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

    Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.

    No, he was worse.
    Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
    Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc
    Yes, I do. If a Champ can lock the opponent in place and perform an infinite Special Lock you can cycle through infinitely, then that is about as broken as it gets. There's no getting out of that for the AI.
    Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo
    When executing the Doom cycle the opponent will always have power and they are always able to throw a special attack. The only reason they don't throw it is because you're holding block to "prevent" the AI from throwing their special. It can be disrupted at any point
  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,376 ★★★★★
    Drago_von_Drago said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ORHypeBuffed said:

    @Colinwhitworth69
    You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
    The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

    Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.

    No, he was worse.
    Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
    Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc
    Yes, I do. If a Champ can lock the opponent in place and perform an infinite Special Lock you can cycle through infinitely, then that is about as broken as it gets. There's no getting out of that for the AI.
    Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo
    That doesn't freeze them in place and prevent them from moving.
    This is an impressively unique response. How does the fact that they don’t move matter in this case?
    Thought that was self-explanatory. It's the cheesiest of cheeses. Prevent the AI from moving at all, Specials are the only way they can break free, L3s are not able to be thrown.....
  • Options
    Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 2,237 ★★★★★
    pseudosane said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    pseudosane said:

    If you dont want to play with him.... dont. RDTs arent required for this reason.

    Agree there, but there’s is more than valid reasons why they should be.

    1.) Root nerf was not included in the balancing announcement so it’s fair to say the champion was changed a second time, silently, and outside of the communicated process

    2.) Trello, where there was a note, is a tool that is not reliably used and is often out of date or vague in detail.

    3.) Only a small percentage of the forum community even knew about Trello. The forums as we’ve been told by Kabam are a very small vocal minority f the player base. So only a percentage of a percentage of players may have been aware.

    4.) We have never been told to consult Trello for official communications. There is no link to Trello in the game so it’s not apparent that resource would need to be consulted when weighing irreversible decisions.

    5.) Kabam themselves are inconsistent about bufg reporting on Trello vs the Forums, which creates confusions about where players should look.


    Really these are all sub points to one larger one about established and visible communication pathways not being utilized here, but RDT should be issued.
    Tbf, very few folks actually ranked him ONLY for this "root" interaction. Zemo is a tough and annoying defender in war and BGs. His utility outside of the "root cheese" is still there. the only change was he cannot lock champs from an sp3 anymore, which isnt a huge part of his kit.
    He's been a pretty easy defender in BGs once you don't apply debuffs to him.
  • Options
    Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 2,237 ★★★★★
    altavista said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo

    Would be unpopular, but I imagine if Doom was released within the past year, that this ability would be changed.
    For sure - Hercules too.
  • Options
    klobberintymeklobberintyme Posts: 1,496 ★★★★
    0100 said:

    Seriously. I would like to formally request a rank-down-ticket for 6* and 5* versions.
    Zemo went from an impressive champion, to super solid, and now finally average.

    I would not have ranked him up if I had known he was being repeatedly nerfed.
    Also, his furies are good and his Sp3 rotation is still solid, but that takes time ramping.

    you do you. as for me,




    my zemo is perfect as is. won't change a thing.
  • Options
    KnightOfTheRealmKnightOfTheRealm Posts: 914 ★★★
    CyborgNinja135 said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    ORHypeBuffed said:

    @Colinwhitworth69
    You have to consider the state of the game changing constantly.
    The nerfs were unnecessary because *NOW* newer metas will turn him into a relic of the past just like Cap IW.

    Zemo isn't AA; he's not Warlock or Kitty, and certainly not Herc or Doom.

    No, he was worse.
    Any Champ that can freeze the opponent in place and stop them from executing any Specials including L3s, is devastating to the game and future content. All you need is one Champ, and you can cheese anything.
    Bro thinks zemo is more broken than doom and herc
    Yes, I do. If a Champ can lock the opponent in place and perform an infinite Special Lock you can cycle through infinitely, then that is about as broken as it gets. There's no getting out of that for the AI.
    Then explain the difference between that and the doom cycle, where an opponent is unable to use a special the entire fight and all power constantly benefits doom? Infinite cycle and has way way way way way more damage than Zemo
    When executing the Doom cycle the opponent will always have power and they are always able to throw a special attack. The only reason they don't throw it is because you're holding block to "prevent" the AI from throwing their special. It can be disrupted at any point
    If you play doom right, you can effortlessly take down a 1m healthpool with the opponent throwing no specials.
  • Options
    KnightOfTheRealmKnightOfTheRealm Posts: 914 ★★★
    His fight control is unmatched and unrivaled throughout the entirety of the game
  • Options
    altavistaaltavista Posts: 1,336 ★★★★
    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    His fight control is unmatched and unrivaled throughout the entirety of the game

    It seems like you are arguing that if Doom is untouched then Baron Zemo should be untouched. Pointing out a broken ability in another champion as a reason why a different champion should have a similar broken ability, is not the defense you think it is.

    There is a difference in choosing to limiting the ability of a 7 month old champion, compared to limiting the abilities of a 3.5+ year old champion. There is an exponential amount of players that would be affected by a Doom change than a Zemo change.

    I agree that it kinda sucks for the few Zemo players, and Kabam screwed up all levels of communication with the playerbase. But ultimately, that is it.
  • Options
    CrazyBunnyZoyCrazyBunnyZoy Posts: 34 ★
    0100 said:

    Seriously. I would like to formally request a rank-down-ticket for 6* and 5* versions.
    Zemo went from an impressive champion, to super solid, and now finally average.

    I would not have ranked him up if I had known he was being repeatedly nerfed.
    Also, his furies are good and his Sp3 rotation is still solid, but that takes time ramping.


    It is our fault as players for enabling this behavior by kabam.
    They are nerfing a game mechanic and claiming it is a champ balancing.

    We should stop hyping and spending on new champs until balancing program is over and just ignore them as much as community is ignored by kabam when they make mistakes or act unfairly
  • Options
    Death33Death33 Posts: 110 ★★
    klobberintyme said:

    0100 said:

    Seriously. I would like to formally request a rank-down-ticket for 6* and 5* versions.
    Zemo went from an impressive champion, to super solid, and now finally average.

    I would not have ranked him up if I had known he was being repeatedly nerfed.
    Also, his furies are good and his Sp3 rotation is still solid, but that takes time ramping.

    you do you. as for me,




    my zemo is perfect as is. won't change a thing.
    He’s still an okay champ, but as my first r5 that I did he is horrible compared to some of the other options. They changed the way he works with barely any warning (trello is bs). Would rather have done valk or KP or even blade lmao. And to those saying that he was broken beyond doom/Herc etc that’s not true. His lock didn’t work on every single fight, neither does Herc or doom but just saying it wasn’t like you could just lock everything.
  • Options
    ahmynutsahmynuts Posts: 6,611 ★★★★★
    altavista said:

    KnightOfTheRealm said:

    His fight control is unmatched and unrivaled throughout the entirety of the game

    It seems like you are arguing that if Doom is untouched then Baron Zemo should be untouched. Pointing out a broken ability in another champion as a reason why a different champion should have a similar broken ability, is not the defense you think it is.

    There is a difference in choosing to limiting the ability of a 7 month old champion, compared to limiting the abilities of a 3.5+ year old champion. There is an exponential amount of players that would be affected by a Doom change than a Zemo change.

    I agree that it kinda sucks for the few Zemo players, and Kabam screwed up all levels of communication with the playerbase. But ultimately, that is it.
    It's also worth it to note that the doom argument is moot because they are talking about directly changing Dooms kit while Zemos kit was not directly changed, the root mechanic was. Technically Zemo himself has not been changed by Kabam so it is not comparable
  • Options
    Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Posts: 781 ★★★★
    You’re missing the point of the Doom argument. If Doom can lock up a defender reliably and do a huge amount of damage while the defender is stuck in a loop, how is Zemo doing that “broken”? I haven’t heard anyone call Doom broken lately. He’s a top tier champ but he doesn’t break the game.
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    KnightOfTheRealmKnightOfTheRealm Posts: 914 ★★★
    Doom is broken because of his control and herc is broken because of how many fights he can cheese, idk how zemo is broken lol, his damage takes forever to get good
  • Options
    Kabam MiikeKabam Miike Posts: 8,270
    Hey all, we have addressed this one more time here, and will be closing these discussions moving forward. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/340923/rank-down-tickets-for-zemo-and-kraven/p26
This discussion has been closed.