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Rintrah Power Gain against Buff Immune

airmundoairmundo Posts: 146 ★
in General Discussion
Has it been addressed that Rintrah is still triggering his power gain when a buff immune champ dex’s while his neutralize is up? Had it happen in war and makes it much harder to contain him when he keeps gaining power and therefore mystical charges on a dex.

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    airmundoairmundo Posts: 146 ★
    edited October 2023
    I’d add that when a champs kit specifically states they don’t trigger dex , like Silk, there is no power gain. Silk also works against wiccan but the buff immunes get incinerated if they parry then dex him…even though they are buff immune. So it seems like the “buff failure” takes place before the champs “buff immunity”. Seems like a bad interaction to me, buff immunity should take place before the neutralize. It’s neutralizing a buff that wouldn’t show up in the first place 🤷🏻‍♂️




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    airmundoairmundo Posts: 146 ★
    AverageDesi said:

    You've actually realized the issue.

    Champions that can't trigger Dex buff like silk are different from champions that can trigger the buff but are immune to it. Neutralize takes away the "can trigger" part by reducing the ability accuracy and hence causes the rest of the issues

    Why should the neutralize come before the buff immune? And is that confirmed by kabam on what is intended or just the community trying to make sense of what’s going on (like what I did).

    Personally I don’t see why I couldn’t debate that they’re buff immune therefore there is no “trying to trigger a buff” because they’re immune. So, nothing to neutralize at any point in time.
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    AverageDesiAverageDesi Posts: 5,260 ★★★★★
    airmundo said:

    AverageDesi said:

    You've actually realized the issue.

    Champions that can't trigger Dex buff like silk are different from champions that can trigger the buff but are immune to it. Neutralize takes away the "can trigger" part by reducing the ability accuracy and hence causes the rest of the issues

    Why should the neutralize come before the buff immune? And is that confirmed by kabam on what is intended or just the community trying to make sense of what’s going on (like what I did).

    Personally I don’t see why I couldn’t debate that they’re buff immune therefore there is no “trying to trigger a buff” because they’re immune. So, nothing to neutralize at any point in time.
    Yes it has been confirmed.

    Ands for a champ to be immune to an effect, it has to be there in the first place.
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    airmundoairmundo Posts: 146 ★
    AverageDesi said:

    airmundo said:

    AverageDesi said:

    You've actually realized the issue.

    Champions that can't trigger Dex buff like silk are different from champions that can trigger the buff but are immune to it. Neutralize takes away the "can trigger" part by reducing the ability accuracy and hence causes the rest of the issues

    Why should the neutralize come before the buff immune? And is that confirmed by kabam on what is intended or just the community trying to make sense of what’s going on (like what I did).

    Personally I don’t see why I couldn’t debate that they’re buff immune therefore there is no “trying to trigger a buff” because they’re immune. So, nothing to neutralize at any point in time.
    Yes it has been confirmed.

    Ands for a champ to be immune to an effect, it has to be there in the first place.
    Can you share where it’s confirmed?
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    airmundoairmundo Posts: 146 ★
    Maratox said:

    airmundo said:

    AverageDesi said:

    You've actually realized the issue.

    Champions that can't trigger Dex buff like silk are different from champions that can trigger the buff but are immune to it. Neutralize takes away the "can trigger" part by reducing the ability accuracy and hence causes the rest of the issues

    Why should the neutralize come before the buff immune? And is that confirmed by kabam on what is intended or just the community trying to make sense of what’s going on (like what I did).

    Personally I don’t see why I couldn’t debate that they’re buff immune therefore there is no “trying to trigger a buff” because they’re immune. So, nothing to neutralize at any point in time.
    When nick uses a medium attack against colossus, does that mean nick isn’t trying to inflict the bleed? Or is the bleed just not applying because of immunity? It’s the latter. In order for a champ to trigger an immunity, the status effect first has to pass a chance to apply.
    Curious, if you fight a collosus on masochism and use NF, does collosus heal when you try to bleed him? If he does, then I agree with you on how this works. If he doesn’t, then the two concepts aren’t working the same way.

    What you’re describing implies that a debuff also tries to take place before immunity. If that’s the case then masochism should try to take place before the debuff immunity kicks in. I haven’t tested this anywhere so I’m genuinely curious because you brought it up.
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    MaratoxMaratox Posts: 1,499 ★★★★★
    airmundo said:

    Maratox said:

    airmundo said:

    AverageDesi said:

    You've actually realized the issue.

    Champions that can't trigger Dex buff like silk are different from champions that can trigger the buff but are immune to it. Neutralize takes away the "can trigger" part by reducing the ability accuracy and hence causes the rest of the issues

    Why should the neutralize come before the buff immune? And is that confirmed by kabam on what is intended or just the community trying to make sense of what’s going on (like what I did).

    Personally I don’t see why I couldn’t debate that they’re buff immune therefore there is no “trying to trigger a buff” because they’re immune. So, nothing to neutralize at any point in time.
    When nick uses a medium attack against colossus, does that mean nick isn’t trying to inflict the bleed? Or is the bleed just not applying because of immunity? It’s the latter. In order for a champ to trigger an immunity, the status effect first has to pass a chance to apply.
    Curious, if you fight a collosus on masochism and use NF, does collosus heal when you try to bleed him? If he does, then I agree with you on how this works. If he doesn’t, then the two concepts aren’t working the same way.

    What you’re describing implies that a debuff also tries to take place before immunity. If that’s the case then masochism should try to take place before the debuff immunity kicks in. I haven’t tested this anywhere so I’m genuinely curious because you brought it up.
    What you’re assuming about masochism interaction is not correct. Masochism states “whenever the defender is inflicted with a debuff, it is purified.” Masochism does not take place before an immunity triggers like you’re saying. They’re two possible paths that can occur when a debuff attempts to be inflicted. If defender is immune to debuff, immunity triggers. If defender is not immune to debuff, it is placed on the defender and masochism triggers.
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    SirGamesBondSirGamesBond Posts: 4,220 ★★★★★
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/308075/why-does-wiccan-apply-incinerates-to-red-guardin-and-spidey-99-when-they-dex
    Enjoy last year discussion.
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    airmundoairmundo Posts: 146 ★
    SirGamesBond said:

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/308075/why-does-wiccan-apply-incinerates-to-red-guardin-and-spidey-99-when-they-dex
    Enjoy last year discussion.

    Will do, thanks for sharing.

    Crazy how passive aggressive people are with someone who’s asking a legitimate question trying to understand something.
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    airmundoairmundo Posts: 146 ★
    Leaving this here. Someone could’ve sent this and I would have seen myself out on this topic. Thanks again for sharing the original post. Someone mentioned to me this was getting patched but I know it’s been around for a while so I was curious why it would just be getting patched now.


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    PikoluPikolu Posts: 6,675 Guardian
    airmundo said:

    Leaving this here. Someone could’ve sent this and I would have seen myself out on this topic. Thanks again for sharing the original post. Someone mentioned to me this was getting patched but I know it’s been around for a while so I was curious why it would just be getting patched now.


    Instead of having someone else search for it, you could have simply searched for it yourself before making the thread in the first place 😉
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    GinjabredMonstaGinjabredMonsta Posts: 6,454 Guardian
    It’s a broken interaction that should honestly be changed
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    MaratoxMaratox Posts: 1,499 ★★★★★
    GinjabredMonsta said:

    It’s a broken interaction that should honestly be changed

    It’s working logically and as intended so why should it be changed?
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    airmundoairmundo Posts: 146 ★
    edited October 2023
    _ignore, trying to delete..
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    MaratoxMaratox Posts: 1,499 ★★★★★
    edited October 2023
    airmundo said:

    Edit

    Ignoring
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    airmundoairmundo Posts: 146 ★
    Maratox said:

    airmundo said:

    Edit

    Ignoring
    Yup, trying to delete lol kinda hard when you respond within seconds
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