Hey all, as we have said before, we only comment when we have something to add.
I understand your requests for more information, and if we have more to share in the future, we will. We do not have anything to share at this time, and bumping a thread just to ask for information we don't have to share is not constructive.
This discussion is not about percentage-based potions, and we are not going to discuss that here, nor do we have plans to make those available at any time in the near future. I originally closed this thread, but I'm opening it again but we're going to focus out conversation on the changes that ARE being made, and not on those that aren't.
If we are focussing on the changes that are being made. They do nothing to make me change my mindset regarding potions. I’ll stick to only using them for story mode bosses on occasions
I don't plan to buy more potions with units. I don't buy them with units now, I won't buy them with units if you lower the cost. There's some data for you.
Why do people hate that kabam are monitizing heals we used to pay for big heals for units way back they now say we can buy bigger and people dont like, there are some players that buy heals for units but want it to be better and there solution is now bigger heals will cost what the biggest heal we could have gotten which was a level 5 heal that cost 28 units its now gonna be a level 7 for 30k heals for players that buy heals its finally a nice change (i am a player that bought heals for units as never liked fighting in content like lab that needed health)
Because Kabam has moved to over monetize rewards through big sales offers instead. Your units and money will get far more rewards then we can get from actually playing game. Most people have a finite budget (in cash or units) so my belief is for the vast majority (I’m assuming here I don’t have analytics to support so could be wrong) it’s spend units on big rewards deals OR on revives/health pots. It’s typically not both. By pushing us down the road of having to spend units on the health economy of the game we need to make a choice. Use units to play the game for average rewards or use units for often much bigger reward deals.
If the game rewards and progression was centred around completing the game I don’t think there would be as much as an issue. When LOL was the prevalent end game content July 4th deals weren’t game breaking. But now you’re almost guaranteed you’ll get more from your units spending them on Cyber Weekend / banquet event then you would buying revives/health pots and actually playing the game.
Also the post talks about “being transparent” when at the same time really comes across as disingenuous and lacking any transparency as to the real reasoning for why has this change option been chosen. Kabam nerfed revive farming, and changes to MEQ feel likes it been nerfed even more. Health pot availability from completing content seems to have dropped off the map. Almost everyone in the community has been asking for % based health pots and this was dismissed without any reasoning, but wrapped up as if it’s for our benefit why it was dismissed as an option. If it’s really for our benefit help us understand why it’s not the preferred option, in the interest of transparency that Kabam says they are looking for. But not really.
This post feels like it provides a solution for Kabam but not a solution for the players.
this.
the game has shifted from content to offers.
we used to have a 1x purchase limit and we're knocking on the door to 5x. and the number of spending events have double or tripled as well so twice a year players have to chose between an event that needs up to 40k units versus spending their units on expensive content who's value diminishes faster and faster each year as offers get crazier and crazier.
Imma probably get slammed for this but percentage based potions would suck. Since players farm potions most of the time without spending units, percentage based units would heal either far too little or far too much. Since they are teachincally free (no unit cost) healing even 5% HP from a LV3 Health potion is too much. Why? They are easily accessible via ROL. Easily farmed. Kinda busted. It's a game. There's gotta be some balances. If everything was absolutely able to be farmed in great abundance easily. The game would make essentially very little compared to now. How do yall think the game will survive then? This is an improvement. U still get to farm ur potions like you are now. There is no way to satisfy everyone. So how do you make a decision like this? Everyone wins and everyone loses. Find the middle ground. That's what they are doing.
Think about revives as a combo of a revive and a percentage based health potion. They revive you and heal for a percentage amount. Now they are making it cheaper to top up to max HP if need be.
This is a win.
Personally if ur running out of revives and potions constantly. Maybe take a step back and assess the situation. Farm up ur potions and revives. Slow down. Think up a strategy. Farm some units up for insurance. And try again. If u keep losing. Then maybe ur champs aren't high enough leveled. So wait out and do some other content. Don't save ur potions and revives up to just run em down the drain. Use them wisely as if they were little bundles of units. Each one has a unit cost so think of it as saving units each time u don't use one. I do it. It works fine. Waited a week and I have (I know it sounds little) 8 revives and 20 ish lv4 hp potions? Did 2 quests in 8.2 and used 1 revive total. I had 7. Got one back via Hero use. Ready again for tomorrow.
I don't plan to buy more potions with units. I don't buy them with units now, I won't buy them with units if you lower the cost. There's some data for you.
I'm pretty sure they already have that data, considering the goal isn't really to make people spend more, it's to make it easier for those who do spend on them. Nor will it really make a difference if people swear off buying them. All they're really doing is making it more difficult on themselves.
Imma probably get slammed for this but percentage based potions would suck. Since players farm potions most of the time without spending units, percentage based units would heal either far too little or far too much. Since they are teachincally free (no unit cost) healing even 5% HP from a LV3 Health potion is too much. Why? They are easily accessible via ROL. Easily farmed. Kinda busted. It's a game. There's gotta be some balances. If everything was absolutely able to be farmed in great abundance easily. The game would make essentially very little compared to now. How do yall think the game will survive then? This is an improvement. U still get to farm ur potions like you are now. There is no way to satisfy everyone. So how do you make a decision like this? Everyone wins and everyone loses. Find the middle ground. That's what they are doing.
Think about revives as a combo of a revive and a percentage based health potion. They revive you and heal for a percentage amount. Now they are making it cheaper to top up to max HP if need be.
This is a win.
Personally if ur running out of revives and potions constantly. Maybe take a step back and assess the situation. Farm up ur potions and revives. Slow down. Think up a strategy. Farm some units up for insurance. And try again. If u keep losing. Then maybe ur champs aren't high enough leveled. So wait out and do some other content. Don't save ur potions and revives up to just run em down the drain. Use them wisely as if they were little bundles of units. Each one has a unit cost so think of it as saving units each time u don't use one. I do it. It works fine. Waited a week and I have (I know it sounds little) 8 revives and 20 ish lv4 hp potions? Did 2 quests in 8.2 and used 1 revive total. I had 7. Got one back via Hero use. Ready again for tomorrow.
Good luck and make the best of what we got.
The problem is that in general questing, so many champs now have significantly higher health pools than the potions are meant to help. You could use 25 L3 potions and still not health half a champ's health. At least for me, it's more efficient to use multiple revives than 1 revive and so many potions.
Even without changing to a percentage base, Kabam needed to do something that actually helps. After the revive farming nerf, they led us to believe potions in the future will actually be a viable options for us. Instead, we waited months for something that many are vocally saying will never help them. Increasing the amount each potions heals or making the higher level ones more available for free would go a long way. As it stands, why would I pay units for something I can bypass with free revives?
@WinterFields 3x the health for 28 units is more health than 28 units rn. If u don't want to spend units and just farm up then do that. It's a change in the right direction. And u missed what I said. If u are already farming them for free, then what's the point of having them cost anything. They are making them cheaper. If you don't spend units on potions and revives, then u have to change the way you approach the game. U can't expect the same results between you and someone who spends units on consumables. There is always a flip side. U don't heal as much, but u don't spend anything. And those who do spend, get more.
U cant go around not spending a dollar expecting to eat at the same restaurants as those who do spend. That's just not how the world works.
@WinterFields 3x the health for 28 units is more health than 28 units rn. If u don't want to spend units and just farm up then do that. It's a change in the right direction. And u missed what I said. If u are already farming them for free, then what's the point of having them cost anything. They are making them cheaper. If you don't spend units on potions and revives, then u have to change the way you approach the game. U can't expect the same results between you and someone who spends units on consumables. There is always a flip side. U don't heal as much, but u don't spend anything. And those who do spend, get more.
U cant go around not spending a dollar expecting to eat at the same restaurants as those who do spend. That's just not how the world works.
Good luck
As others in this chat mentioned, you can get more from spending on July 4th/Cyber Weekend than completing content. I don't spend money on this game, and many who do still only casually spend. It takes months of grinding arena to be able to get those deals.
I don't expect to match accounts that spend on deals, but I do believe I can get far more for my units by not spending on potions and saving for these massive deals. I hope spending on units advances your account far, but as for me, I will save for the holiday deals and use revives instead of potions.
The problem is that's a choice. People can save every last Unit they have for deals, or they can spend them on Resources to complete content. In many cases, completing that content helps them progress more, as in the case of Story. Everest content is something done in our own time, so it's not really a requirement, but again that's a choice. In terms of team modes, I'm almost certain that Members are spending on Resources anyway at higher levels, and this will be cheaper. At lower levels, if you're spending that much to keep going, you're on too high a Map.
Honestly, sure it's an improvement but there isn't much to get psyched about beyond the boost compensation.
This past months EQ I got 0 potions and revives from your "improved rewards" chests (across three fully explored difficulties). Now this post comes out and it took you seven months to come back at us with your amazing revamp/improvement to the potion system which equates to: "Uh... we'll sell you six for what it used to cost for five."
"Oh, no they don't actually heal any more than they used to. But they're cheaper!!!"
It doesn't matter I don't care how cheap you make them, a lvl 1 potion will never again be relevant for me. Same goes for lvl 2, for the most part even lvl 3...
There is no-one in the game getting psyched about healing a champion for 250 health. That's pathetic. That is what needed an upgrade. You don't want percentage based? Fine, I can honestly understand the position you're taking on this - but bump up how potent the potions are.
What I would love, is if you bump up the potency of potions and also/or change the lowest level of potion available to us to scale with our progression. Permanently and across all content.
I'm not suggesting the top tier, but as our ceiling rises (we gain access to higher level potions) so should our floor: it should be impossible for lvl 1 potions to spawn for us past a certain progression level. Then impossible for lvl 2 potions, etc... Paragon should have lvl 3 be the lowest possible potion to spawn anywhere, even in the apothecary.
It also shouldn't matter the difficulty we go through for things like EQ and SQ, we're spending the energy - if someone Cavalier or Thronebeaker or Paragon completes content, the potions they receive from that content should scale up.
Sorry, I know I said back on the first page that I was trying to be positive about this... but this is honestly a super disappointing "update".
@Kabam Jax I might be being a little dense here, I can see the cost of the level 4 and 5 questing health pots have gone down. I can’t see the level 6 and 7 health pots in the game. Were these not part of the Step 1 update?
@Kabam Jax I might be being a little dense here, I can see the cost of the level 4 and 5 questing health pots have gone down. I can’t see the level 6 and 7 health pots in the game. Were these not part of the Step 1 update?
They were there but then disappeared about roughly half hour to an hour from depending on timezone but for kabam 10am pst they went live but then went sometime after
@Kabam Jax I might be being a little dense here, I can see the cost of the level 4 and 5 questing health pots have gone down. I can’t see the level 6 and 7 health pots in the game. Were these not part of the Step 1 update?
They were there but then disappeared about roughly half hour to an hour from depending on timezone but for kabam 10am pst they went live but then went sometime after
They’re still not back. Necropolis is coming soon. If they’re supposed to be live in the game now, hopefully Kabam can get it fixed. Overall I’m not a fan of this 3 Step Plan as a solution. But surely we need to get the whole of Step 1 implemented together. Where are the level 6 and 7 health pots?
Lower unit cost of potions is a positive, especially for those who don’t farm/grind.
No update to the loyalty store until Feb (assuming no delays) is really disappointing. Clearly the value of loyalty store potions has massively reduced now we have 6* r5 and 7*, yet cost is the same and will be another 3 months at least.
Seriously what is the drop rate on these EQ chests? It must be 99% iso at least. Remember all the positive comments when we started seeing 2 revives on some TB paths? Those days are gone. These chests are a disgrace.
I have explored every level of EQ in the previous months since the change to chests was made. I am about a third of the way through exploring all levels this month. Just received my first revive since the change in a chest on TB difficulty. It was an L1. Someone please explain how this is better than it was? Before the change I could view every level and every path and decide which to run for what rewards and consistently was getting revives over the course of exploration. Don't come at me with RNG and sample size. I don't typically subscribe to the Nerf crowd, but there's no other answer here.
I still don't see level 6 or 7 potions, but do see the reduced price for level 5 potions. Did I miss an announcement? Also, didn't know if I should bring this thread back or ask in a new one.
I have explored every level of EQ in the previous months since the change to chests was made. I am about a third of the way through exploring all levels this month. Just received my first revive since the change in a chest on TB difficulty. It was an L1. Someone please explain how this is better than it was? Before the change I could view every level and every path and decide which to run for what rewards and consistently was getting revives over the course of exploration. Don't come at me with RNG and sample size. I don't typically subscribe to the Nerf crowd, but there's no other answer here.
The drops are definitely worse. I usually only bother with Proven through UC with some of Cavalier but like you said, I used to regularly be able to get some revives on my runs and now I don't know if I got more than 1. I know I'm not running the hardest difficulties but given where champion health pools are at it is ridiculous to still be getting level 1 and 2 health potions as well. I barely get any of the level 1 and 2 (useless as they are) potions now either.
Additionally, the iso drops are worse now as well. Last month I was mostly getting 3,000 iso pieces with some 1,300 and now it is mostly the 75 - 525, with some occasional 1,300 and possibly very rare 3,000 (though I can't recall for sure if I got any 3,000 this month from EQ).
I still don't see level 6 or 7 potions, but do see the reduced price for level 5 potions. Did I miss an announcement? Also, didn't know if I should bring this thread back or ask in a new one.
I believe their announcement was that level 6 and 7 potions would only be available from offers, not in the store for regular purchase.
Seriously what is the drop rate on these EQ chests? It must be 99% iso at least. Remember all the positive comments when we started seeing 2 revives on some TB paths? Those days are gone. These chests are a disgrace.
Facts. What triggers me the most is the explanation behind "we remove rng but should be the same overall". No it's not. This is the kind of explanation that triggers people and feed the "kabam is bad at communicating or is not being honest argumentative". Even if we assume the drop rate is still the same, the fact we can't see what's inside the chest makes it random, defeating the purpose of the update btw. Cause before we could look through all paths and decide which one to go, preferably the one with items of course. Now it's random. It's like comparing a 6 star crystal with a nexus 6 star crystal. We used to have a nexus revive path, now we get a basic path.
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Have a nice day sir
They do nothing to make me change my mindset regarding potions.
I’ll stick to only using them for story mode bosses on occasions
I don't plan to buy more potions with units. I don't buy them with units now, I won't buy them with units if you lower the cost. There's some data for you.
How can you run a company and completely disregard your customers at almost every turn?
the game has shifted from content to offers.
we used to have a 1x purchase limit and we're knocking on the door to 5x. and the number of spending events have double or tripled as well so twice a year players have to chose between an event that needs up to 40k units versus spending their units on expensive content who's value diminishes faster and faster each year as offers get crazier and crazier.
Think about revives as a combo of a revive and a percentage based health potion. They revive you and heal for a percentage amount. Now they are making it cheaper to top up to max HP if need be.
This is a win.
Personally if ur running out of revives and potions constantly. Maybe take a step back and assess the situation. Farm up ur potions and revives. Slow down. Think up a strategy. Farm some units up for insurance. And try again. If u keep losing. Then maybe ur champs aren't high enough leveled. So wait out and do some other content. Don't save ur potions and revives up to just run em down the drain. Use them wisely as if they were little bundles of units. Each one has a unit cost so think of it as saving units each time u don't use one. I do it. It works fine. Waited a week and I have (I know it sounds little) 8 revives and 20 ish lv4 hp potions? Did 2 quests in 8.2 and used 1 revive total. I had 7. Got one back via Hero use. Ready again for tomorrow.
Good luck and make the best of what we got.
Nor will it really make a difference if people swear off buying them. All they're really doing is making it more difficult on themselves.
Even without changing to a percentage base, Kabam needed to do something that actually helps. After the revive farming nerf, they led us to believe potions in the future will actually be a viable options for us. Instead, we waited months for something that many are vocally saying will never help them. Increasing the amount each potions heals or making the higher level ones more available for free would go a long way. As it stands, why would I pay units for something I can bypass with free revives?
U cant go around not spending a dollar expecting to eat at the same restaurants as those who do spend. That's just not how the world works.
Good luck
I don't expect to match accounts that spend on deals, but I do believe I can get far more for my units by not spending on potions and saving for these massive deals. I hope spending on units advances your account far, but as for me, I will save for the holiday deals and use revives instead of potions.
In terms of team modes, I'm almost certain that Members are spending on Resources anyway at higher levels, and this will be cheaper. At lower levels, if you're spending that much to keep going, you're on too high a Map.
This past months EQ I got 0 potions and revives from your "improved rewards" chests (across three fully explored difficulties). Now this post comes out and it took you seven months to come back at us with your amazing revamp/improvement to the potion system which equates to: "Uh... we'll sell you six for what it used to cost for five."
"Oh, no they don't actually heal any more than they used to. But they're cheaper!!!"
It doesn't matter I don't care how cheap you make them, a lvl 1 potion will never again be relevant for me. Same goes for lvl 2, for the most part even lvl 3...
There is no-one in the game getting psyched about healing a champion for 250 health. That's pathetic. That is what needed an upgrade. You don't want percentage based? Fine, I can honestly understand the position you're taking on this - but bump up how potent the potions are.
What I would love, is if you bump up the potency of potions and also/or change the lowest level of potion available to us to scale with our progression. Permanently and across all content.
I'm not suggesting the top tier, but as our ceiling rises (we gain access to higher level potions) so should our floor: it should be impossible for lvl 1 potions to spawn for us past a certain progression level. Then impossible for lvl 2 potions, etc... Paragon should have lvl 3 be the lowest possible potion to spawn anywhere, even in the apothecary.
It also shouldn't matter the difficulty we go through for things like EQ and SQ, we're spending the energy - if someone Cavalier or Thronebeaker or Paragon completes content, the potions they receive from that content should scale up.
Sorry, I know I said back on the first page that I was trying to be positive about this... but this is honestly a super disappointing "update".
No update to the loyalty store until Feb (assuming no delays) is really disappointing.
Clearly the value of loyalty store potions has massively reduced now we have 6* r5 and 7*, yet cost is the same and will be another 3 months at least.
Additionally, the iso drops are worse now as well. Last month I was mostly getting 3,000 iso pieces with some 1,300 and now it is mostly the 75 - 525, with some occasional 1,300 and possibly very rare 3,000 (though I can't recall for sure if I got any 3,000 this month from EQ).
What triggers me the most is the explanation behind "we remove rng but should be the same overall". No it's not. This is the kind of explanation that triggers people and feed the "kabam is bad at communicating or is not being honest argumentative".
Even if we assume the drop rate is still the same, the fact we can't see what's inside the chest makes it random, defeating the purpose of the update btw. Cause before we could look through all paths and decide which one to go, preferably the one with items of course. Now it's random.
It's like comparing a 6 star crystal with a nexus 6 star crystal. We used to have a nexus revive path, now we get a basic path.