Is this the intent?

I've been doing the absurd apothecary ever since they 'fixed' the story runs. I get 1 level 1 revive a day. If I'm lucky (It's not event quest 22hr event) I get 1 level 2 revive a day. Is this really what kabam thinks is 'good enough' my energy refills just expire. No need to rerun eq and nowhere to potion/revive runs. No we don't need 25 revives a day. But isn't there a better middle ground? I'm sure they can code something that limits it to 5-10 a day. Instead of just removing everything. It just seems like a huge overreaction every time they 'fix' revive runs.

Comments

GalactikDonut

to answer the question, it is the intent. if they give you 5-10 revives a day then content will be designed to require 5 to 10 times the amount of revives. you can reasonably beat necropolis with the amount of revives you get within a month.

PT_99

After ANOTHER revive nerf, I guess Kabam will see less and less players actively playing honestly.
More and more energy refills will expire for nothing but I will suggest to run the lower difficulty EQ for units at least

Pandingo

After ANOTHER revive nerf, I guess Kabam will see less and less players actively playing honestly.
More and more energy refills will expire for nothing but I will suggest to run the lower difficulty EQ for units at least

That's actually a good suggestion. I was honestly just filling up tier 1/2 cats for poops and gigs. I run some 4* arena just for the units.

Pikolu

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives? It has been ages for me since I've used a revive in EQ because I'd rather just redo the entire quest with a better boss counter, and I used like 2 revives to explore 8.3. The only time I have really needed a stash of revives in this entire year was for the Carina challenge Vol 3 and Necropolis.

I feel the main issue doesn't come from people wanting 5-10 revives daily, the issue comes when there is everest content (supposed to be stupid difficult) and people want their revives now. Seriously, outside of Necropolis and EoP releases times, do you really need 5-10 revives daily?

Pandingo

to answer the question, it is the intent. if they give you 5-10 revives a day then content will be designed to require 5 to 10 times the amount of revives. you can reasonably beat necropolis with the amount of revives you get within a month.

I don't see a problem with that 😅🤣 having run necropolis 3 times I'd love a non spending way to run 3 more. Or even 1 a month.

Savage123456789

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives? It has been ages for me since I've used a revive in EQ because I'd rather just redo the entire quest with a better boss counter, and I used like 2 revives to explore 8.3. The only time I have really needed a stash of revives in this entire year was for the Carina challenge Vol 3 and Necropolis.

I feel the main issue doesn't come from people wanting 5-10 revives daily, the issue comes when there is everest content (supposed to be stupid difficult) and people want their revives now. Seriously, outside of Necropolis and EoP releases times, do you really need 5-10 revives daily?

Only time will tell. With the design of necropolis, I think Kabam were justified in nerfing the revive count. If they keep things this way, then yeah, no need for those absurd amount of revives, but if we slip back to AoL, and Carina 1 and slightly less 2 type of designs, then no, we need those revive stuff.

Jefechuta

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives? It has been ages for me since I've used a revive in EQ because I'd rather just redo the entire quest with a better boss counter, and I used like 2 revives to explore 8.3. The only time I have really needed a stash of revives in this entire year was for the Carina challenge Vol 3 and Necropolis.

I feel the main issue doesn't come from people wanting 5-10 revives daily, the issue comes when there is everest content (supposed to be stupid difficult) and people want their revives now. Seriously, outside of Necropolis and EoP releases times, do you really need 5-10 revives daily?

Literally people only complain about revives because they want to do new Endgame content on day 1, dude, grind, its not supposed to be done fast af boy, its supposed to take your time and to take you maybe one month, two, three to do the hardest content on the game, I mean, what the hell.

Pandingo

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives?

Ahhh pikolu. The voice of reason. Ya. I want em for everest content. But it's not like it used to be with everest stuff. One or two options. Now. There are tons of places where a lil revive goes a long way. Even for endgame content people. Like. Each act of act 8 only has me using maybe 10-15 revives to complete 100%. Mostly the final boss and mostly due to silly mistakes. But like I said there's tons of everest content now. I just feel for 99% of players (Id maybe cede 95%) even 5 a day would be way more than reasonable. And if not. Don't do it. Does it really hurt the 5%

SIlverProfessor

I wonder what one of the slowest months for this game is. They would have the data on either slowest in regards to number of accounts logging in and playing. What if they have a month event where they "ok" revive farming (even have milestones with rewards) that would encourage people to farm as much as they want for that month. Deadpool's Fall Harvest and populate revives throughout all content.

Zeke_the_Xbot

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives? It has been ages for me since I've used a revive in EQ because I'd rather just redo the entire quest with a better boss counter, and I used like 2 revives to explore 8.3. The only time I have really needed a stash of revives in this entire year was for the Carina challenge Vol 3 and Necropolis.

I feel the main issue doesn't come from people wanting 5-10 revives daily, the issue comes when there is everest content (supposed to be stupid difficult) and people want their revives now. Seriously, outside of Necropolis and EoP releases times, do you really need 5-10 revives daily?

Nice brag but not everyone has a stacked roster or the skill to boast how they can clear stuff so easily like you. Yes some of use need a plethora of revives to beat content some regard as only moderately difficult or challenging. We are not all the same. And “getting gud” is always easier said then done.

Pikolu

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives?
Ahhh pikolu. The voice of reason. Ya. I want em for everest content. But it's not like it used to be with everest stuff. One or two options. Now. There are tons of places where a lil revive goes a long way. Even for endgame content people. Like. Each act of act 8 only has me using maybe 10-15 revives to complete 100%. Mostly the final boss and mostly due to silly mistakes. But like I said there's tons of everest content now. I just feel for 99% of players (Id maybe cede 95%) even 5 a day would be way more than reasonable. And if not. Don't do it. Does it really hurt the 5%

So you'd agree that for the average player, they won't be using more than 60 revives a month outside of everest content (which isn't even designed for the average player to do)?

If the average person can get through their respective EQs and still progress story with 60 revives a month, then I'd say the current 2 daily possible revives is a fair balance for the game.

Instead of increasing the daily possible revives, how about we ask kabam to have a week-long quest when everest content drops that'll give us 2-3 extra revives everyday as a boost? Or even better, have it be an arena that drops the revives so you can grab them while in the quest.

Jefechuta

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives? It has been ages for me since I've used a revive in EQ because I'd rather just redo the entire quest with a better boss counter, and I used like 2 revives to explore 8.3. The only time I have really needed a stash of revives in this entire year was for the Carina challenge Vol 3 and Necropolis.

I feel the main issue doesn't come from people wanting 5-10 revives daily, the issue comes when there is everest content (supposed to be stupid difficult) and people want their revives now. Seriously, outside of Necropolis and EoP releases times, do you really need 5-10 revives daily?
Nice brag but not everyone has a stacked roster or the skill to boast how they can clear stuff so easily like you. Yes some of use need a plethora of revives to beat content some regard as only moderately difficult or challenging. We are not all the same. And “getting gud” is always easier said then done.

If you are not able to do content, improve either your skills or your roster.

Damn, if you guys were playing on 2015 where Act 4 was hard, you would be like "Give us free revives, nerf the content, buff the rewards" etc, things are not meant to be done as soon as those are avaible, they are meant to do as soon as you are capable of doing them, I have a stacked roster and I didnt even do EoP since Im waiting to have the best champs at R4 for each Carina's Challenge to be able to do them without much revives, and Im chilling meanwhile doing other stuff rather than asking for stuff when its not needed at all.

Jack2634

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives? It has been ages for me since I've used a revive in EQ because I'd rather just redo the entire quest with a better boss counter, and I used like 2 revives to explore 8.3. The only time I have really needed a stash of revives in this entire year was for the Carina challenge Vol 3 and Necropolis.

I feel the main issue doesn't come from people wanting 5-10 revives daily, the issue comes when there is everest content (supposed to be stupid difficult) and people want their revives now. Seriously, outside of Necropolis and EoP releases times, do you really need 5-10 revives daily?

this

Pandingo

@Jack2634 he IS the voice of reason. It just didn't seem to hurt anybody 🤗 I'd love to finish all the everest content. But it inherently requires saving many revives. Even old-school everest (still want that ultron)

Pandingo

The get gud argument, it's invalid. Roster argument is invalid. I remember when act 4 was hard. Didn't need revives. Needed skill. Like any act. Even act 8 is easy after a single run or two. But it's challenging enough to be fun. Nobody is doing necro with less than 35 revives. Or if so. It's less than 1% of players, even the most followed streamers are simply dumping revives into the paths. 35 minimum. Which comes out to one path a month even for highly skilled, roster pumped accounts. I'm not asking for the world. I'm asking for the opportunity for more than 1 20% and 1 40% a day. At the very least so people stop complaining as much. Including myself 😅 banquet is just a huge miss. Even 4 revives wouldn't break the game but make it so a run attempt can be made biweekly at something higher tier.

Rustyoneil

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives? It has been ages for me since I've used a revive in EQ because I'd rather just redo the entire quest with a better boss counter, and I used like 2 revives to explore 8.3. The only time I have really needed a stash of revives in this entire year was for the Carina challenge Vol 3 and Necropolis.

I feel the main issue doesn't come from people wanting 5-10 revives daily, the issue comes when there is everest content (supposed to be stupid difficult) and people want their revives now. Seriously, outside of Necropolis and EoP releases times, do you really need 5-10 revives daily?

I completely agree. Outside of end game content you don’t need that many revives. If you do, you’re doing content above your skill level. Necropolis wasn’t designed to explore in a couple days or months. It’s not ending any time soon, you don’t need to explore the whole thing right now. Just like everything else in this game, if you don’t have the patience to hoard your revives, there’s always unit man.

Jefechuta

The get gud argument, it's invalid. Roster argument is invalid. I remember when act 4 was hard. Didn't need revives. Needed skill. Like any act. Even act 8 is easy after a single run or two. But it's challenging enough to be fun. Nobody is doing necro with less than 35 revives. Or if so. It's less than 1% of players, even the most followed streamers are simply dumping revives into the paths. 35 minimum. Which comes out to one path a month even for highly skilled, roster pumped accounts. I'm not asking for the world. I'm asking for the opportunity for more than 1 20% and 1 40% a day. At the very least so people stop complaining as much. Including myself 😅 banquet is just a huge miss. Even 4 revives wouldn't break the game but make it so a run attempt can be made biweekly at something higher tier.

"Its invalid", because you say so? It is not invalid because your main argument was that you use revives outside of Everest Content, if so, then improve your skills and roster, then you will only need those revives only for Everest content.

If you grind for a little more than a month you can stash around 74-78 revives, only with the revives you get Daily, if you need even more, you have arena, grind units to buy revives.

I grind arena for the deals we get on Cyber Weekend, July 4th, Spring Sales and Banquet!

Yeah, thats very nice, keep that grind and those units for those deals, but you can still grind a little bit more to get some additional units, so you can buy more revives if those 74-78 are not enough.

Hard content is meant to be hard, not doable for everybody, if you cant do it, you must wait till you are capable of it.

Demonzfyre

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives? It has been ages for me since I've used a revive in EQ because I'd rather just redo the entire quest with a better boss counter, and I used like 2 revives to explore 8.3. The only time I have really needed a stash of revives in this entire year was for the Carina challenge Vol 3 and Necropolis.

I feel the main issue doesn't come from people wanting 5-10 revives daily, the issue comes when there is everest content (supposed to be stupid difficult) and people want their revives now. Seriously, outside of Necropolis and EoP releases times, do you really need 5-10 revives daily?
Nice brag but not everyone has a stacked roster or the skill to boast how they can clear stuff so easily like you. Yes some of use need a plethora of revives to beat content some regard as only moderately difficult or challenging. We are not all the same. And “getting gud” is always easier said then done.

Everest content is meant to be done gradually. It's not meant for you to throw 200 revives at just to get it done. You're supposed to plan and strategize how to take paths.

DNA3000

I've been doing the absurd apothecary ever since they 'fixed' the story runs. I get 1 level 1 revive a day. If I'm lucky (It's not event quest 22hr event) I get 1 level 2 revive a day. Is this really what kabam thinks is 'good enough' my energy refills just expire. No need to rerun eq and nowhere to potion/revive runs. No we don't need 25 revives a day. But isn't there a better middle ground? I'm sure they can code something that limits it to 5-10 a day. Instead of just removing everything. It just seems like a huge overreaction every time they 'fix' revive runs.

Five to ten revives per day means being able to stockpile between 90 and 160 L1 revives alone from Apothecary (without Sigil inventory increases), which combined with the 34 you can stockpile from 22 hr events means somewhere between 124 and 182 revives, before counting any other revives, any other revive sources, and any other revive stacking techniques (such as holding 22 hr rewards in the reward queue before claiming).

More than 124 to 182 is what you're saying is the "middle ground" for revive availability?

DNA3000

The get gud argument, it's invalid. Roster argument is invalid. I remember when act 4 was hard. Didn't need revives. Needed skill. Like any act. Even act 8 is easy after a single run or two. But it's challenging enough to be fun. Nobody is doing necro with less than 35 revives. Or if so. It's less than 1% of players, even the most followed streamers are simply dumping revives into the paths. 35 minimum. Which comes out to one path a month even for highly skilled, roster pumped accounts. I'm not asking for the world. I'm asking for the opportunity for more than 1 20% and 1 40% a day. At the very least so people stop complaining as much. Including myself 😅 banquet is just a huge miss. Even 4 revives wouldn't break the game but make it so a run attempt can be made biweekly at something higher tier.

You're asking for enough revives for you to do the most difficult top tier Everest content every two weeks, only a couple weeks after it just came out. You say you are not asking for "the world" but you are literally asking for the biggest thing you could possibly ask for in the game outside of just everything.

Anyone trying *at all* to gather resources for Necropolis should at the bare minimum be able to fill both L1 and L2 inventories, which is 20 each, and then easily cap out the L1 stash at 14 and at least do some amount of 22hr farming above that, say at least half of them. That's a rock bottom minimum revive stash of 61 revives (20 + 20 + 14 + 7). This counts no other revive opportunities anywhere.

61 is the absolute floor, not 35. And 61 is well within the reach of high skill players. It isn't within the reach of lower skill players, but lower skill players shouldn't expect to tackle Necropolis without higher resource expenditures. And for sufficiently low skill low progress players, they should have no expectations at all about completing Necropolis. It is, as previously mentioned, the highest tier Everest content that gates the highest progression tier, and both it and the progress title it gates are brand new.

There are plenty of revives for top end game players to complete it for free. There are sufficient revives available in-game for moderate end game players to power through it. If you can't do it with what is available, you're simply not the target audience for that content.

There's no skill "argument" and there's no roster "argument." Those aren't arguments. It is simply a fact that the Necropolis is not intended for everyone to complete whenever they want. There is a skill hurdle and there is a roster hurdle (or rather, there is a combined skill+roster hurdle) and that hurdle can be lowered with potions and revives, but it is not meant for everyone to completely negate both with unbounded potions and revives, and if there's not enough of them for you to beat it, then you're not going to beat it, period.

GroundedWisdom

If you have Energy to burn, you can run the lowest level of EQs. They give Units, which you can buy Revs with. If memory serves, you said you feel it isn't worth your time to run them, but that's a choice.

DNA3000

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives? It has been ages for me since I've used a revive in EQ because I'd rather just redo the entire quest with a better boss counter, and I used like 2 revives to explore 8.3. The only time I have really needed a stash of revives in this entire year was for the Carina challenge Vol 3 and Necropolis.

I feel the main issue doesn't come from people wanting 5-10 revives daily, the issue comes when there is everest content (supposed to be stupid difficult) and people want their revives now. Seriously, outside of Necropolis and EoP releases times, do you really need 5-10 revives daily?
Nice brag but not everyone has a stacked roster or the skill to boast how they can clear stuff so easily like you. Yes some of use need a plethora of revives to beat content some regard as only moderately difficult or challenging. We are not all the same. And “getting gud” is always easier said then done.

MCOC is, in large part, a progressional game. The whole point of progressional games is to incentivize and reward progress, by having content that requires certain levels of skill and roster strength. The whole point of the game is there will be stuff you can't do now, that requires getting more skilled and/or growing your roster stronger.

Of course not everyone has the roster or the skills to do Necropolis, outside of extremely large resource expenditures. That's the whole point. That's why Necropolis is even there, to be an aspirational target for the players who want to climb the hardest mountains. We don't call it Everest content because everyone is supposed to be able to beat it. We call it Everest content because most people can't beat it, and most people probably won't beat it any time soon.

I think there is a sizeable percentage of the player population that has lost sight of the fact that progressional games are aspirational in nature. You're supposed to want to have the best rewards and beat the hardest content, but the vast majority of players won't be able to when it first comes out, if ever. Progressional games as a service are not Burger King: you can't have it your way. There are sandbox games where the player decides what they want to do, how they want to do it, and when they want to do it. The point to those games is engineering the experience itself, for players who get gratification from that type of play. But this is not that kind of game. This game provides challenges, some of them trivial, some of them moderate, some of them very hard, and some of them far outside most player's capabilities. You're supposed to climb to the level of your competency, and you are supposed to be able to live with what that ultimately is, or strive to improve yourself so that next time you will be able to climb higher.

Not everyone has a stacked roster. You're supposed to build one. Not everyone has all the right skills. You're supposed to gain them. And this is not supposed to be easy. If it was easy, everyone could do it easily, and the game wouldn't bother asking you to do it.

WOLF_LINK

Yes, Apothecary is disappointing, but the massive Revive Auto-Farming exploit isn’t a solution either.

Pandingo

I guess we're missing my point amid the onslaught of different opinions. I'll say again. 5-10 a day. Happy medium. Nobody should get 50 a day ftp. That's crazy. But I don't see an issue farming 5-10 a day. They can certainly cap it.

willrun4adonut

I got an honest question for everyone. Outside of things like EoP, and Necropolis, do you really use that many revives? It has been ages for me since I've used a revive in EQ because I'd rather just redo the entire quest with a better boss counter, and I used like 2 revives to explore 8.3. The only time I have really needed a stash of revives in this entire year was for the Carina challenge Vol 3 and Necropolis.

I feel the main issue doesn't come from people wanting 5-10 revives daily, the issue comes when there is everest content (supposed to be stupid difficult) and people want their revives now. Seriously, outside of Necropolis and EoP releases times, do you really need 5-10 revives daily?

I use revives often because they just take up space and I'd rather not read the nodes and study them if I'm just having revives expire. But I am perfectly content with them nerfing revive farming if that means future content is also adjusted to reflect that.

And this comes from someone who farmed revives like crazy for Necropolis and Carina vol. 3.

GalactikDonut

I guess we're missing my point amid the onslaught of different opinions. I'll say again. 5-10 a day. Happy medium. Nobody should get 50 a day ftp. That's crazy. But I don't see an issue farming 5-10 a day. They can certainly cap it.

i guess you’re missing my point. and the point of the nerf. revives aren’t meant to be super plentiful. 5-10 revives a day is between 70 and 140 extra revives in your overflow. that is way too much for the difficulty of content. you are not supposed to be able to steamroll content by spamming revives. the middle ground is the 2 a day you can get right now. if you really need more than the 75 you can have in a month at once then farm units and use those to buy revives, but honestly i’d suggest just waiting to do the harder content until you’re ready and don’t need a tone revives

GroundedWisdom

I guess we're missing my point amid the onslaught of different opinions. I'll say again. 5-10 a day. Happy medium. Nobody should get 50 a day ftp. That's crazy. But I don't see an issue farming 5-10 a day. They can certainly cap it.

5-10 a day is 150-300 a month. If they're putting out content that requires that many Revs, they have bigger fish to fry than farming.

Pandingo

This is all I'll add. Because there are so many divided opinions. When it comes down to it. I do apothecary every day. I don't ever recall getting any revive from easy. And I have only ever got level 1 from the next path. It's broken in a bad way. It's borderline worthless but we only do it because if we don't do it and complain we have no right to complain. It advertises level 1 and level 2 revives. But it shouldn't because. I'm telling you. I run it. Every. Day. So again. Just 4-5 opportunities a day would be nice. If you don't need it? Great. Don't do it. But 95% of players would benefit from a minor tweak in the system. Base it on progression. Add another level or two. I don't care. It just needs to be fixed if farming is going to be cut out.

DNA3000

I guess we're missing my point amid the onslaught of different opinions. I'll say again. 5-10 a day. Happy medium. Nobody should get 50 a day ftp. That's crazy. But I don't see an issue farming 5-10 a day. They can certainly cap it.

In case you missed it, 5-10 a day is ludicrously high.

Capping just the easy to farm revives to 180 (20 L1 inventory + 20 L2 inventory + 140 L1 in stash), which is not the actual limit on revives you can use, makes it almost impossible to make meaningfully difficult content.

As it is, players can already easily bring 70ish revives to bear on content with trivial effort. Adding an additional one hundred revives and saying this is just a happy medium makes me wonder what you think the actual reasonable ceiling is.

Pikolu

This is all I'll add. Because there are so many divided opinions. When it comes down to it. I do apothecary every day. I don't ever recall getting any revive from easy. And I have only ever got level 1 from the next path. It's broken in a bad way. It's borderline worthless but we only do it because if we don't do it and complain we have no right to complain. It advertises level 1 and level 2 revives. But it shouldn't because. I'm telling you. I run it. Every. Day. So again. Just 4-5 opportunities a day would be nice. If you don't need it? Great. Don't do it. But 95% of players would benefit from a minor tweak in the system. Base it on progression. Add another level or two. I don't care. It just needs to be fixed if farming is going to be cut out.

Why are you wasting your time on the easy quest? Just do the hard one, if there is no revive do the top path, then do the bottom path and go in a third time to see if a revive spawned. If no revive spawned, just leave. Doing it that way runs the 5% chance of a revive spawning 3 times instead of 2