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7* ranking progression - some thoughts

Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 2,214 ★★★★★
Just had a thought..

Why do you all think Kabam brought in 7* ranks 3s in less than a year (~ 8 months from introduction to rank 3s)?

No star level has progressed that quickly in recent memory.

My guess is it's because they made 6* ascensions too powerful (basically equal to 7r2) - if you could ascend all your champions to the equivalent of 7r2, why push for new 7* apart from the stat focus feature (and challenger rating in long content)?

Ascensions were their peace offering to the community for bringing in 7*s when many players didn't want to start the chase over for new champs at a new star level, but I think they probably made it a bit too powerful.

Their solution to that - bringing in 7r3 as another level, making 7*s even more valuable than ascended 6* and still chasable...

If my guess is correct, I think rather than having 7r3 now they should have made 6* ascension less powerful, so that the 7* progressions could have been done more slowly.
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Comments

  • Options
    Slevin73Slevin73 Posts: 91
    Probably a budget thing. Actual wasn't performing well against forecast so they had to push it a little.
  • Options
    SecondSkrillerSecondSkriller Posts: 1,143 ★★★★
    I think it’s perfectly fine, ascension is made to deal with 7 star rank 3 champions and realistically there’s only a max of 3 r3s you can have at the moment. With the controlled pool of 7 stars Kabam has shifted the focus from op champs like Hercules to ones they can closely monitor. Playing around 7 stars allows kabam to balance the game better since it’s all their fault now if a 7 star is too powerful :)
  • Options
    ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 4,995 ★★★★★
    Yall seem to forget that 6* were exactly the same way when they dropped. You could either r5 a 5* or r2 a 6*.
  • Options
    Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 2,214 ★★★★★
    Buttehrs said:

    Yall seem to forget that 6* were exactly the same way when they dropped. You could either r5 a 5* or r2 a 6*.

    Except it didnt happen in 8 months, which is the key point of this thread - the pace of progression and why it's been so fast.

    They have now had to firmly pull on the hand break so it doesn't get out of control.
  • Options
    WinterFieldsWinterFields Posts: 714 ★★★★
    PT_99 said:

    7r2 requirements should be what 7r3 requirements are, it's not even year for 7* release and we have already reached half of 7* max potential.

    By making 7r2 instantly available, Kabam have obsolete all the 6* other than top 6* of each class. It's waste of resources to rank up any 6* which is not top of the class anymore.

    Kabam themselves are responsible for not thinking towards long-term damage and now they did 2 tame sales and community is furious. Oh well

    It's not entirely a waste to rank up 6* that aren't necessarily the top of their class, especially when you consider that 7* sig stones don't exist yet.

    Ultron, for example, is a solid champ but not game breaking. At high sig, he can handle shock/incinerate which when added to his bleed/poison immunity, he can handle many scenarios including hazard shift
  • Options
    Chuck_FinleyChuck_Finley Posts: 923 ★★★★★
    edited December 2023
    Polygon said:

    Regardless of what it was, it was a mistake to have progresssion be this fast, and they realized it. Hence why the banquet and cyber deals were tailored as such.

    Some may find it unpleasant but just look at how awful july 4 was on the balance of the game and how many BG related complaint threads we had

    And you are 100% confident they won’t do the same thing again with cash explosion next July 4th? By limiting specifically banquet, they took people who were building units and aren’t huge spenders on sale days from being able to get back in the ballpark….6 months later. You can’t even rank 4 a 6 star with 10k units…. While we are facing rosters with R5’s everywhere from July 4th.

    Convince me Kabam has learned their lesson and I might say it was worth screwing us in the banquet. I have zero confidence that’s the case.
  • Options
    BendyBendy Posts: 4,174 ★★★★★
    The reason they did 7r3s is because kabam has stated that 7s came in late as we had multiple 7 r2s for top players so they had to bring 7r3s out for them but they also said u wont see as much after the initial time so october for battlerealm 2 from necro then spending events but banquet reduced it, as they said there be more ways after 6 months
  • Options
    HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Posts: 819 ★★★★
    We’ll likely be stuck at 7r3 for a while till people start crying about that.

    7r2 should not have required the same catalysts as 7r1 but it’s not really moving that fast when at most people have 3 7r3
  • Options
    ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 4,995 ★★★★★
    edited December 2023
    xLunatiXx said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Yall seem to forget that 6* were exactly the same way when they dropped. You could either r5 a 5* or r2 a 6*.

    You seem to forget and skip the main point of this conversation, 6r3 were not available 8 months after 6 star release
    Bugmat78 said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Yall seem to forget that 6* were exactly the same way when they dropped. You could either r5 a 5* or r2 a 6*.

    Except it didnt happen in 8 months, which is the key point of this thread - the pace of progression and why it's been so fast.

    They have now had to firmly pull on the hand break so it doesn't get out of control.
    And you guys also seem to forget that 7* will be going to r6 and not just r5. And probably ascension in the future as well.There's going to be extra time allotted simply for that reason alone so 8 months for r3 isn't even that bad.
  • Options
    ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 4,995 ★★★★★
    Bugmat78 said:

    Buttehrs said:

    xLunatiXx said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Yall seem to forget that 6* were exactly the same way when they dropped. You could either r5 a 5* or r2 a 6*.

    You seem to forget and skip the main point of this conversation, 6r3 were not available 8 months after 6 star release
    Bugmat78 said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Yall seem to forget that 6* were exactly the same way when they dropped. You could either r5 a 5* or r2 a 6*.

    Except it didnt happen in 8 months, which is the key point of this thread - the pace of progression and why it's been so fast.

    They have now had to firmly pull on the hand break so it doesn't get out of control.
    And you guys also seem to forget that 7* will be going to r6 and not just r5. And probably ascension in the future as well.There's going to be extra time allotted simply for that reason alone so 8 months for r3 isn't even that bad.
    Nobody forgot that so skip the condescension.

    None of that changes the fact that the progression happened ridiculously quickly at any level you want to analyse it, whether we stuck here at 7r3 for the next year or not.

    And I disagree with you - 8 months to move 3 ranks in any new star level at this stage of the game is frighteningly fast.
    So you'd rather sit at a rank for 12-24 months with nothing to do? Because when that happens you don't get new content or anything either.
  • Options
    jdschwjdschw Posts: 233 ★★
    Buttehrs said:


    So you'd rather sit at a rank for 12-24 months with nothing to do? Because when that happens you don't get new content or anything either.

    I don't know about the rest of you, but I have barely started building my stable of 7* champs. I only have ~15 7* champs total, before we even worry about rank. So, speaking for myself, I have plenty to do for the next 6-12 months, before I even worry about being able to even get rank 2 for more than a couple champs.
  • Options
    GamerGamer Posts: 10,371 ★★★★★
    Bugmat78 said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    Buttehrs said:

    xLunatiXx said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Yall seem to forget that 6* were exactly the same way when they dropped. You could either r5 a 5* or r2 a 6*.

    You seem to forget and skip the main point of this conversation, 6r3 were not available 8 months after 6 star release
    Bugmat78 said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Yall seem to forget that 6* were exactly the same way when they dropped. You could either r5 a 5* or r2 a 6*.

    Except it didnt happen in 8 months, which is the key point of this thread - the pace of progression and why it's been so fast.

    They have now had to firmly pull on the hand break so it doesn't get out of control.
    And you guys also seem to forget that 7* will be going to r6 and not just r5. And probably ascension in the future as well.There's going to be extra time allotted simply for that reason alone so 8 months for r3 isn't even that bad.
    Nobody forgot that so skip the condescension.

    None of that changes the fact that the progression happened ridiculously quickly at any level you want to analyse it, whether we stuck here at 7r3 for the next year or not.

    And I disagree with you - 8 months to move 3 ranks in any new star level at this stage of the game is frighteningly fast.
    So you'd rather sit at a rank for 12-24 months with nothing to do? Because when that happens you don't get new content or anything either.
    You can do new content without new ranks - we did it for quite a while with 6*s..and waiting 15 months to get the 1st 7r3 would have been fine, and would have felt less rushed and even more rewarding.

    We could have been doing that new content (necropolis or otherwise) for 7r2 mats now and have Paragon based around the number of 7r2s..but we couldn't because they introduced rank 2's almost immediately.
    But one the r2 7 star thing is r5 and r5 is using the same catalyst so there where already there at launch when r5 was a thing to I get you point I okay with r3 for awhile now
  • Options
    Bugmat78 said:

    Just had a thought..

    Why do you all think Kabam brought in 7* ranks 3s in less than a year (~ 8 months from introduction to rank 3s)?

    No star level has progressed that quickly in recent memory.

    My guess is it's because they made 6* ascensions too powerful (basically equal to 7r2) - if you could ascend all your champions to the equivalent of 7r2, why push for new 7* apart from the stat focus feature (and challenger rating in long content)?

    Ascensions were their peace offering to the community for bringing in 7*s when many players didn't want to start the chase over for new champs at a new star level, but I think they probably made it a bit too powerful.

    I think even without Ascension, there were still problems with 7* R2. Because 7* ranks overlap 6* ranks (which was the pattern going back to 5* champs) 7* R2 wasn't a lot more powerful than 6* R5 even without ascension in the mix. But equally important, neither 6* R5 nor 7* R2 could really gate progress because of the overlap in rank up materials. You had players speculating on whether or not 7* R1 champs might gate the next progression tier, much less 7* R2.

    7* R3 was the first rank that you could introduce a new catalyst requirement, which could then gate progression. Which meant if you added up the fact that R1 and R2 had significant overlap with 6* champs, *and* ascension was going to blur that even further, *and* we had to get to R3 to gate the next progression tier, there was significant pressure to get past R2 and to R3.

    I'm pretty sure that rank progression is going to be substantially slower post R3 because all those pressures are now gone. Probably to the point where people will be complaining it is too slow again. But I think those complaints are a sign that Kabam is going at the right speed. When they disappear, that's the canary in the cage that things are going faster than they ordinarily should.
  • Options
    Jack2634Jack2634 Posts: 833 ★★★
    i mean , unlike 4,5,6 star champs , 7 star champ MAX rank is rank 6 , so some changes were made and i think that was understandable . Plus , non spender can have max 2 r3 and whalers can only have 3 r3 at max too , atm . So it is not that bad
  • Options
    10or_Strong10or_Strong Posts: 1,197 ★★★
    They also discussed this on the Twitch livestream today. If i recall correctly, there was a desire that the next rank be attainable from content, rather than just from paid offers (since previously the top new progressions were often from pay to win events like Banquet). They felt Necropolis was the right content to make the first R3 attainable, and since that had already been planned out for release late this year, it did come faster than we may have expected. They did say the remainder of 7* progression will be slowing down.
  • Options
    GAMEOVERJamesGAMEOVERJames Posts: 902 ★★★
    It somehow indicates this game is on the way to be self-terminated.

    It’s been 9 years since MCOC introduction. I do believe it’s already long enough for a mobile game.

    I think the introduction of 7 star champs is pushing everything to the end.


  • Options
    Crys23Crys23 Posts: 773 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    Just had a thought..

    Why do you all think Kabam brought in 7* ranks 3s in less than a year (~ 8 months from introduction to rank 3s)?

    No star level has progressed that quickly in recent memory.

    My guess is it's because they made 6* ascensions too powerful (basically equal to 7r2) - if you could ascend all your champions to the equivalent of 7r2, why push for new 7* apart from the stat focus feature (and challenger rating in long content)?

    Ascensions were their peace offering to the community for bringing in 7*s when many players didn't want to start the chase over for new champs at a new star level, but I think they probably made it a bit too powerful.

    I think even without Ascension, there were still problems with 7* R2. Because 7* ranks overlap 6* ranks (which was the pattern going back to 5* champs) 7* R2 wasn't a lot more powerful than 6* R5 even without ascension in the mix. But equally important, neither 6* R5 nor 7* R2 could really gate progress because of the overlap in rank up materials. You had players speculating on whether or not 7* R1 champs might gate the next progression tier, much less 7* R2.

    7* R3 was the first rank that you could introduce a new catalyst requirement, which could then gate progression. Which meant if you added up the fact that R1 and R2 had significant overlap with 6* champs, *and* ascension was going to blur that even further, *and* we had to get to R3 to gate the next progression tier, there was significant pressure to get past R2 and to R3.

    I'm pretty sure that rank progression is going to be substantially slower post R3 because all those pressures are now gone. Probably to the point where people will be complaining it is too slow again. But I think those complaints are a sign that Kabam is going at the right speed. When they disappear, that's the canary in the cage that things are going faster than they ordinarily should.
    Wow, is this the real DNA? Because I have never seen such a bad post from you before, especially one related to stats.
    7* R2 weren't that much more powerful than 6r5? Really? You need to do some (simple) math.
    If you check the difference in stats, it's about 21.7% (health and attack). So ascension gives you 22% and now your 6*s can still feel relevant vs 7*s.
    But if you do the math on stat increases between each ranks (for 6*) you will see it's about 15% each time (except r1 to r2). If 6*s would've had rank 6, 7*r2 would've been more powerful than even that.
    So 7r2 are much, much more powerful than 6r5. Thats why ascension had to be so powerful.

    Kabam said they learned from previous rarity releases (6*, 5*) and they'll do better with 7*. But in fact they did much, much worse:
    - 7r1 are close to a 6r5 in stats (only ~3% worse), when in fact they should've been much closer to a 6r4 (like 2% better).
    - this made a 4 year chase to R5 a 6* seem pointless, made to feel even worse when kabam sold 4-5 6* gems on July 4th like candy on Halloween
    - 7r2 should not have required catalysts already in-game. They should've been the chase for the next year, not 7r3.

    The hope now is that 7R4s won't be released for at least 18 months. Maybe even two years. And when they do get released, a new 6* ascension level is also released to bring 6*s on a 7r3 level.
  • Options
    ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 4,995 ★★★★★
    Crys23 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    Just had a thought..

    Why do you all think Kabam brought in 7* ranks 3s in less than a year (~ 8 months from introduction to rank 3s)?

    No star level has progressed that quickly in recent memory.

    My guess is it's because they made 6* ascensions too powerful (basically equal to 7r2) - if you could ascend all your champions to the equivalent of 7r2, why push for new 7* apart from the stat focus feature (and challenger rating in long content)?

    Ascensions were their peace offering to the community for bringing in 7*s when many players didn't want to start the chase over for new champs at a new star level, but I think they probably made it a bit too powerful.

    I think even without Ascension, there were still problems with 7* R2. Because 7* ranks overlap 6* ranks (which was the pattern going back to 5* champs) 7* R2 wasn't a lot more powerful than 6* R5 even without ascension in the mix. But equally important, neither 6* R5 nor 7* R2 could really gate progress because of the overlap in rank up materials. You had players speculating on whether or not 7* R1 champs might gate the next progression tier, much less 7* R2.

    7* R3 was the first rank that you could introduce a new catalyst requirement, which could then gate progression. Which meant if you added up the fact that R1 and R2 had significant overlap with 6* champs, *and* ascension was going to blur that even further, *and* we had to get to R3 to gate the next progression tier, there was significant pressure to get past R2 and to R3.

    I'm pretty sure that rank progression is going to be substantially slower post R3 because all those pressures are now gone. Probably to the point where people will be complaining it is too slow again. But I think those complaints are a sign that Kabam is going at the right speed. When they disappear, that's the canary in the cage that things are going faster than they ordinarily should.
    Wow, is this the real DNA? Because I have never seen such a bad post from you before, especially one related to stats.
    7* R2 weren't that much more powerful than 6r5? Really? You need to do some (simple) math.
    If you check the difference in stats, it's about 21.7% (health and attack). So ascension gives you 22% and now your 6*s can still feel relevant vs 7*s.
    But if you do the math on stat increases between each ranks (for 6*) you will see it's about 15% each time (except r1 to r2). If 6*s would've had rank 6, 7*r2 would've been more powerful than even that.
    So 7r2 are much, much more powerful than 6r5. Thats why ascension had to be so powerful.

    Kabam said they learned from previous rarity releases (6*, 5*) and they'll do better with 7*. But in fact they did much, much worse:
    - 7r1 are close to a 6r5 in stats (only ~3% worse), when in fact they should've been much closer to a 6r4 (like 2% better).
    - this made a 4 year chase to R5 a 6* seem pointless, made to feel even worse when kabam sold 4-5 6* gems on July 4th like candy on Halloween
    - 7r2 should not have required catalysts already in-game. They should've been the chase for the next year, not 7r3.

    The hope now is that 7R4s won't be released for at least 18 months. Maybe even two years. And when they do get released, a new 6* ascension level is also released to bring 6*s on a 7r3 level.
    Why on earth would they allow us to ascend 6* 2nd time? What would have been the point of 7* in the first place then? That's a silly idea. Especially if it's 2 years from now, you should have a very healthy amount of 7* available.
  • Options
    Crys23Crys23 Posts: 773 ★★★★
    Buttehrs said:

    Crys23 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    Just had a thought..

    Why do you all think Kabam brought in 7* ranks 3s in less than a year (~ 8 months from introduction to rank 3s)?

    No star level has progressed that quickly in recent memory.

    My guess is it's because they made 6* ascensions too powerful (basically equal to 7r2) - if you could ascend all your champions to the equivalent of 7r2, why push for new 7* apart from the stat focus feature (and challenger rating in long content)?

    Ascensions were their peace offering to the community for bringing in 7*s when many players didn't want to start the chase over for new champs at a new star level, but I think they probably made it a bit too powerful.

    I think even without Ascension, there were still problems with 7* R2. Because 7* ranks overlap 6* ranks (which was the pattern going back to 5* champs) 7* R2 wasn't a lot more powerful than 6* R5 even without ascension in the mix. But equally important, neither 6* R5 nor 7* R2 could really gate progress because of the overlap in rank up materials. You had players speculating on whether or not 7* R1 champs might gate the next progression tier, much less 7* R2.

    7* R3 was the first rank that you could introduce a new catalyst requirement, which could then gate progression. Which meant if you added up the fact that R1 and R2 had significant overlap with 6* champs, *and* ascension was going to blur that even further, *and* we had to get to R3 to gate the next progression tier, there was significant pressure to get past R2 and to R3.

    I'm pretty sure that rank progression is going to be substantially slower post R3 because all those pressures are now gone. Probably to the point where people will be complaining it is too slow again. But I think those complaints are a sign that Kabam is going at the right speed. When they disappear, that's the canary in the cage that things are going faster than they ordinarily should.
    Wow, is this the real DNA? Because I have never seen such a bad post from you before, especially one related to stats.
    7* R2 weren't that much more powerful than 6r5? Really? You need to do some (simple) math.
    If you check the difference in stats, it's about 21.7% (health and attack). So ascension gives you 22% and now your 6*s can still feel relevant vs 7*s.
    But if you do the math on stat increases between each ranks (for 6*) you will see it's about 15% each time (except r1 to r2). If 6*s would've had rank 6, 7*r2 would've been more powerful than even that.
    So 7r2 are much, much more powerful than 6r5. Thats why ascension had to be so powerful.

    Kabam said they learned from previous rarity releases (6*, 5*) and they'll do better with 7*. But in fact they did much, much worse:
    - 7r1 are close to a 6r5 in stats (only ~3% worse), when in fact they should've been much closer to a 6r4 (like 2% better).
    - this made a 4 year chase to R5 a 6* seem pointless, made to feel even worse when kabam sold 4-5 6* gems on July 4th like candy on Halloween
    - 7r2 should not have required catalysts already in-game. They should've been the chase for the next year, not 7r3.

    The hope now is that 7R4s won't be released for at least 18 months. Maybe even two years. And when they do get released, a new 6* ascension level is also released to bring 6*s on a 7r3 level.
    Why on earth would they allow us to ascend 6* 2nd time? What would have been the point of 7* in the first place then? That's a silly idea. Especially if it's 2 years from now, you should have a very healthy amount of 7* available.
    You think I'll have 250 7* in 2 years? From 38 now? And dozens of them at sig200?
    The idea of a 2nd ascension would be to bring 6* at 7r3 level after 7r4s become available.
    Also, I think we all agree that some champs will never be 7* (Herc). This would be a way to keep them relevant. Also to not make 4 years of collecting 6* completly worthless.
    7* can go to rank 6. Having our old 6* roster at a 7r3 level (half of max) is reasonable. Actually, when r5 or r6 7* are out, another 6* ascension should be released.

    PS: look at the ascension icon. It clearly has a "1" on it. Maybe it's intentional, maybe an accident. But in the future it can have a 2, or a 3 on it.
  • Options
    Noob_Master69Noob_Master69 Posts: 680 ★★★★
    Crys23 said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Crys23 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    Just had a thought..

    Why do you all think Kabam brought in 7* ranks 3s in less than a year (~ 8 months from introduction to rank 3s)?

    No star level has progressed that quickly in recent memory.

    My guess is it's because they made 6* ascensions too powerful (basically equal to 7r2) - if you could ascend all your champions to the equivalent of 7r2, why push for new 7* apart from the stat focus feature (and challenger rating in long content)?

    Ascensions were their peace offering to the community for bringing in 7*s when many players didn't want to start the chase over for new champs at a new star level, but I think they probably made it a bit too powerful.

    I think even without Ascension, there were still problems with 7* R2. Because 7* ranks overlap 6* ranks (which was the pattern going back to 5* champs) 7* R2 wasn't a lot more powerful than 6* R5 even without ascension in the mix. But equally important, neither 6* R5 nor 7* R2 could really gate progress because of the overlap in rank up materials. You had players speculating on whether or not 7* R1 champs might gate the next progression tier, much less 7* R2.

    7* R3 was the first rank that you could introduce a new catalyst requirement, which could then gate progression. Which meant if you added up the fact that R1 and R2 had significant overlap with 6* champs, *and* ascension was going to blur that even further, *and* we had to get to R3 to gate the next progression tier, there was significant pressure to get past R2 and to R3.

    I'm pretty sure that rank progression is going to be substantially slower post R3 because all those pressures are now gone. Probably to the point where people will be complaining it is too slow again. But I think those complaints are a sign that Kabam is going at the right speed. When they disappear, that's the canary in the cage that things are going faster than they ordinarily should.
    Wow, is this the real DNA? Because I have never seen such a bad post from you before, especially one related to stats.
    7* R2 weren't that much more powerful than 6r5? Really? You need to do some (simple) math.
    If you check the difference in stats, it's about 21.7% (health and attack). So ascension gives you 22% and now your 6*s can still feel relevant vs 7*s.
    But if you do the math on stat increases between each ranks (for 6*) you will see it's about 15% each time (except r1 to r2). If 6*s would've had rank 6, 7*r2 would've been more powerful than even that.
    So 7r2 are much, much more powerful than 6r5. Thats why ascension had to be so powerful.

    Kabam said they learned from previous rarity releases (6*, 5*) and they'll do better with 7*. But in fact they did much, much worse:
    - 7r1 are close to a 6r5 in stats (only ~3% worse), when in fact they should've been much closer to a 6r4 (like 2% better).
    - this made a 4 year chase to R5 a 6* seem pointless, made to feel even worse when kabam sold 4-5 6* gems on July 4th like candy on Halloween
    - 7r2 should not have required catalysts already in-game. They should've been the chase for the next year, not 7r3.

    The hope now is that 7R4s won't be released for at least 18 months. Maybe even two years. And when they do get released, a new 6* ascension level is also released to bring 6*s on a 7r3 level.
    Why on earth would they allow us to ascend 6* 2nd time? What would have been the point of 7* in the first place then? That's a silly idea. Especially if it's 2 years from now, you should have a very healthy amount of 7* available.
    You think I'll have 250 7* in 2 years? From 38 now? And dozens of them at sig200?
    The idea of a 2nd ascension would be to bring 6* at 7r3 level after 7r4s become available.
    Also, I think we all agree that some champs will never be 7* (Herc). This would be a way to keep them relevant. Also to not make 4 years of collecting 6* completly worthless.
    7* can go to rank 6. Having our old 6* roster at a 7r3 level (half of max) is reasonable. Actually, when r5 or r6 7* are out, another 6* ascension should be released.

    PS: look at the ascension icon. It clearly has a "1" on it. Maybe it's intentional, maybe an accident. But in the future it can have a 2, or a 3 on it.
    If they don't want Herc to be available as a 7*, what makes you think they'd want him to stay relevant through Ascension? I think Kabam wants nothing more than for Herc to become irrelevant

    And your arguments for collecting 6*s becoming pointless is completely negated by the fact that the same has happened when it came to 5*s becoming pointless and 4*s before that
  • Options
    GamerGamer Posts: 10,371 ★★★★★

    Crys23 said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Crys23 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    Just had a thought..

    Why do you all think Kabam brought in 7* ranks 3s in less than a year (~ 8 months from introduction to rank 3s)?

    No star level has progressed that quickly in recent memory.

    My guess is it's because they made 6* ascensions too powerful (basically equal to 7r2) - if you could ascend all your champions to the equivalent of 7r2, why push for new 7* apart from the stat focus feature (and challenger rating in long content)?

    Ascensions were their peace offering to the community for bringing in 7*s when many players didn't want to start the chase over for new champs at a new star level, but I think they probably made it a bit too powerful.

    I think even without Ascension, there were still problems with 7* R2. Because 7* ranks overlap 6* ranks (which was the pattern going back to 5* champs) 7* R2 wasn't a lot more powerful than 6* R5 even without ascension in the mix. But equally important, neither 6* R5 nor 7* R2 could really gate progress because of the overlap in rank up materials. You had players speculating on whether or not 7* R1 champs might gate the next progression tier, much less 7* R2.

    7* R3 was the first rank that you could introduce a new catalyst requirement, which could then gate progression. Which meant if you added up the fact that R1 and R2 had significant overlap with 6* champs, *and* ascension was going to blur that even further, *and* we had to get to R3 to gate the next progression tier, there was significant pressure to get past R2 and to R3.

    I'm pretty sure that rank progression is going to be substantially slower post R3 because all those pressures are now gone. Probably to the point where people will be complaining it is too slow again. But I think those complaints are a sign that Kabam is going at the right speed. When they disappear, that's the canary in the cage that things are going faster than they ordinarily should.
    Wow, is this the real DNA? Because I have never seen such a bad post from you before, especially one related to stats.
    7* R2 weren't that much more powerful than 6r5? Really? You need to do some (simple) math.
    If you check the difference in stats, it's about 21.7% (health and attack). So ascension gives you 22% and now your 6*s can still feel relevant vs 7*s.
    But if you do the math on stat increases between each ranks (for 6*) you will see it's about 15% each time (except r1 to r2). If 6*s would've had rank 6, 7*r2 would've been more powerful than even that.
    So 7r2 are much, much more powerful than 6r5. Thats why ascension had to be so powerful.

    Kabam said they learned from previous rarity releases (6*, 5*) and they'll do better with 7*. But in fact they did much, much worse:
    - 7r1 are close to a 6r5 in stats (only ~3% worse), when in fact they should've been much closer to a 6r4 (like 2% better).
    - this made a 4 year chase to R5 a 6* seem pointless, made to feel even worse when kabam sold 4-5 6* gems on July 4th like candy on Halloween
    - 7r2 should not have required catalysts already in-game. They should've been the chase for the next year, not 7r3.

    The hope now is that 7R4s won't be released for at least 18 months. Maybe even two years. And when they do get released, a new 6* ascension level is also released to bring 6*s on a 7r3 level.
    Why on earth would they allow us to ascend 6* 2nd time? What would have been the point of 7* in the first place then? That's a silly idea. Especially if it's 2 years from now, you should have a very healthy amount of 7* available.
    You think I'll have 250 7* in 2 years? From 38 now? And dozens of them at sig200?
    The idea of a 2nd ascension would be to bring 6* at 7r3 level after 7r4s become available.
    Also, I think we all agree that some champs will never be 7* (Herc). This would be a way to keep them relevant. Also to not make 4 years of collecting 6* completly worthless.
    7* can go to rank 6. Having our old 6* roster at a 7r3 level (half of max) is reasonable. Actually, when r5 or r6 7* are out, another 6* ascension should be released.

    PS: look at the ascension icon. It clearly has a "1" on it. Maybe it's intentional, maybe an accident. But in the future it can have a 2, or a 3 on it.
    If they don't want Herc to be available as a 7*, what makes you think they'd want him to stay relevant through Ascension? I think Kabam wants nothing more than for Herc to become irrelevant

    And your arguments for collecting 6*s becoming pointless is completely negated by the fact that the same has happened when it came to 5*s becoming pointless and 4*s before that
    I hav a idea for that’s where ascension stil could be a thing for offer but like lock Hercules at 1 ascension if that’s make sense let said spider ham fx could get a 2 ascension since he already a 7 star so it could make it work
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    Crys23Crys23 Posts: 773 ★★★★

    Crys23 said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Crys23 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    Just had a thought..

    Why do you all think Kabam brought in 7* ranks 3s in less than a year (~ 8 months from introduction to rank 3s)?

    No star level has progressed that quickly in recent memory.

    My guess is it's because they made 6* ascensions too powerful (basically equal to 7r2) - if you could ascend all your champions to the equivalent of 7r2, why push for new 7* apart from the stat focus feature (and challenger rating in long content)?

    Ascensions were their peace offering to the community for bringing in 7*s when many players didn't want to start the chase over for new champs at a new star level, but I think they probably made it a bit too powerful.

    I think even without Ascension, there were still problems with 7* R2. Because 7* ranks overlap 6* ranks (which was the pattern going back to 5* champs) 7* R2 wasn't a lot more powerful than 6* R5 even without ascension in the mix. But equally important, neither 6* R5 nor 7* R2 could really gate progress because of the overlap in rank up materials. You had players speculating on whether or not 7* R1 champs might gate the next progression tier, much less 7* R2.

    7* R3 was the first rank that you could introduce a new catalyst requirement, which could then gate progression. Which meant if you added up the fact that R1 and R2 had significant overlap with 6* champs, *and* ascension was going to blur that even further, *and* we had to get to R3 to gate the next progression tier, there was significant pressure to get past R2 and to R3.

    I'm pretty sure that rank progression is going to be substantially slower post R3 because all those pressures are now gone. Probably to the point where people will be complaining it is too slow again. But I think those complaints are a sign that Kabam is going at the right speed. When they disappear, that's the canary in the cage that things are going faster than they ordinarily should.
    Wow, is this the real DNA? Because I have never seen such a bad post from you before, especially one related to stats.
    7* R2 weren't that much more powerful than 6r5? Really? You need to do some (simple) math.
    If you check the difference in stats, it's about 21.7% (health and attack). So ascension gives you 22% and now your 6*s can still feel relevant vs 7*s.
    But if you do the math on stat increases between each ranks (for 6*) you will see it's about 15% each time (except r1 to r2). If 6*s would've had rank 6, 7*r2 would've been more powerful than even that.
    So 7r2 are much, much more powerful than 6r5. Thats why ascension had to be so powerful.

    Kabam said they learned from previous rarity releases (6*, 5*) and they'll do better with 7*. But in fact they did much, much worse:
    - 7r1 are close to a 6r5 in stats (only ~3% worse), when in fact they should've been much closer to a 6r4 (like 2% better).
    - this made a 4 year chase to R5 a 6* seem pointless, made to feel even worse when kabam sold 4-5 6* gems on July 4th like candy on Halloween
    - 7r2 should not have required catalysts already in-game. They should've been the chase for the next year, not 7r3.

    The hope now is that 7R4s won't be released for at least 18 months. Maybe even two years. And when they do get released, a new 6* ascension level is also released to bring 6*s on a 7r3 level.
    Why on earth would they allow us to ascend 6* 2nd time? What would have been the point of 7* in the first place then? That's a silly idea. Especially if it's 2 years from now, you should have a very healthy amount of 7* available.
    You think I'll have 250 7* in 2 years? From 38 now? And dozens of them at sig200?
    The idea of a 2nd ascension would be to bring 6* at 7r3 level after 7r4s become available.
    Also, I think we all agree that some champs will never be 7* (Herc). This would be a way to keep them relevant. Also to not make 4 years of collecting 6* completly worthless.
    7* can go to rank 6. Having our old 6* roster at a 7r3 level (half of max) is reasonable. Actually, when r5 or r6 7* are out, another 6* ascension should be released.

    PS: look at the ascension icon. It clearly has a "1" on it. Maybe it's intentional, maybe an accident. But in the future it can have a 2, or a 3 on it.
    If they don't want Herc to be available as a 7*, what makes you think they'd want him to stay relevant through Ascension? I think Kabam wants nothing more than for Herc to become irrelevant

    And your arguments for collecting 6*s becoming pointless is completely negated by the fact that the same has happened when it came to 5*s becoming pointless and 4*s before that
    Lets take 6* vs 5*. Both go to a max of rank 5. 6* didn't surpass 5* until 6r3s. So, 3 power levels more than a 5*. Since 7* go to rank 6, not only is lv2 ascension needed for 6*, it slso makes sense to bring them to a 7r3 power level.
    And unless kabam wants to release 8*s, then ascension is more than likely for 7*s too. Thats one more power level. So one more ascension for 6*'s to bring them to 7r4 level is logical.
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    ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 4,995 ★★★★★
    Crys23 said:

    Buttehrs said:

    Crys23 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Bugmat78 said:

    Just had a thought..

    Why do you all think Kabam brought in 7* ranks 3s in less than a year (~ 8 months from introduction to rank 3s)?

    No star level has progressed that quickly in recent memory.

    My guess is it's because they made 6* ascensions too powerful (basically equal to 7r2) - if you could ascend all your champions to the equivalent of 7r2, why push for new 7* apart from the stat focus feature (and challenger rating in long content)?

    Ascensions were their peace offering to the community for bringing in 7*s when many players didn't want to start the chase over for new champs at a new star level, but I think they probably made it a bit too powerful.

    I think even without Ascension, there were still problems with 7* R2. Because 7* ranks overlap 6* ranks (which was the pattern going back to 5* champs) 7* R2 wasn't a lot more powerful than 6* R5 even without ascension in the mix. But equally important, neither 6* R5 nor 7* R2 could really gate progress because of the overlap in rank up materials. You had players speculating on whether or not 7* R1 champs might gate the next progression tier, much less 7* R2.

    7* R3 was the first rank that you could introduce a new catalyst requirement, which could then gate progression. Which meant if you added up the fact that R1 and R2 had significant overlap with 6* champs, *and* ascension was going to blur that even further, *and* we had to get to R3 to gate the next progression tier, there was significant pressure to get past R2 and to R3.

    I'm pretty sure that rank progression is going to be substantially slower post R3 because all those pressures are now gone. Probably to the point where people will be complaining it is too slow again. But I think those complaints are a sign that Kabam is going at the right speed. When they disappear, that's the canary in the cage that things are going faster than they ordinarily should.
    Wow, is this the real DNA? Because I have never seen such a bad post from you before, especially one related to stats.
    7* R2 weren't that much more powerful than 6r5? Really? You need to do some (simple) math.
    If you check the difference in stats, it's about 21.7% (health and attack). So ascension gives you 22% and now your 6*s can still feel relevant vs 7*s.
    But if you do the math on stat increases between each ranks (for 6*) you will see it's about 15% each time (except r1 to r2). If 6*s would've had rank 6, 7*r2 would've been more powerful than even that.
    So 7r2 are much, much more powerful than 6r5. Thats why ascension had to be so powerful.

    Kabam said they learned from previous rarity releases (6*, 5*) and they'll do better with 7*. But in fact they did much, much worse:
    - 7r1 are close to a 6r5 in stats (only ~3% worse), when in fact they should've been much closer to a 6r4 (like 2% better).
    - this made a 4 year chase to R5 a 6* seem pointless, made to feel even worse when kabam sold 4-5 6* gems on July 4th like candy on Halloween
    - 7r2 should not have required catalysts already in-game. They should've been the chase for the next year, not 7r3.

    The hope now is that 7R4s won't be released for at least 18 months. Maybe even two years. And when they do get released, a new 6* ascension level is also released to bring 6*s on a 7r3 level.
    Why on earth would they allow us to ascend 6* 2nd time? What would have been the point of 7* in the first place then? That's a silly idea. Especially if it's 2 years from now, you should have a very healthy amount of 7* available.
    You think I'll have 250 7* in 2 years? From 38 now? And dozens of them at sig200?
    The idea of a 2nd ascension would be to bring 6* at 7r3 level after 7r4s become available.
    Also, I think we all agree that some champs will never be 7* (Herc). This would be a way to keep them relevant. Also to not make 4 years of collecting 6* completly worthless.
    7* can go to rank 6. Having our old 6* roster at a 7r3 level (half of max) is reasonable. Actually, when r5 or r6 7* are out, another 6* ascension should be released.

    PS: look at the ascension icon. It clearly has a "1" on it. Maybe it's intentional, maybe an accident. But in the future it can have a 2, or a 3 on it.
    To be very honest, yes. You should have 250 7* in 2 more years. Here's why. There will be roughly another 50 new champs added in game in the next 2 years. They will increase the rate you earn and dupe both 6 and 7* between now and then, same way it happened with 4 and 5* when 6* dropped. That's literally how this game works. If after 9+ years you and and many others haven't figured that out by now, then there's just no hope for some of you.
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    WinterFieldsWinterFields Posts: 714 ★★★★

    It somehow indicates this game is on the way to be self-terminated.

    It’s been 9 years since MCOC introduction. I do believe it’s already long enough for a mobile game.

    I think the introduction of 7 star champs is pushing everything to the end.


    Wouldn't introducing 7* be the opposite to the game on the path to the end? If they stopped at 6*, where does that lead for growth and new progressions or things to chase after?
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