How do we express our feelings on raids?

ANIMEniac · January 22

Some changes I would like to see for Raids:

Kang is fine and well designed

Thanos mostly needs to see a slight re-work on missions. Blocking a hit should either be expanded to taking a hit on block, or a new mission entirely like knocking him down. Blocking a hit with those pierce buffs building is imo the most punishing and counter-intuitive thing we must do in the entire map to build charges.

Maestro I myself am fairly comfortable dexxing his SP1, but sometimes still mess up because it feels like the animation sometimes stutters or pauses. So only real fix besides replacing him would be to tone down the pierce and crit into block abilities. Which I do think would be best.

Ultron needs to either be unawakened as the final boss on the map, or have a permanent heal block on himself. It feels really bad that 1/3 or more of the champs for the mode don't do well, or you're actively punished for using them against him when all other defenders have 0 immunities or punishing effects against energy damage or DOT effects.

Finally, DOT damage needs some kind of buff. Especially the Assault feels really bad when so many champs are handicapped by relying on DOT effects to deal or supplement their damage. I get that not all champs can be of the same caliber as Titania, Iron Man, Hulkbuster, etc. Some champs are inevitably going to be better than others. But DOT champs feel like a trap or being punished for using them in the mode.

I'd like to see all the free revives given to us up front in the week to use, rather than trickled out 2 at a time every day. If AQ cycle was shortened and adjustable now to give us more control of our time, I'd like to see the same considerations be made for Raids as well.

Finally, please don't lock champs in the mode the entire week and allow us to use the champs on AW defense in Raids. I get not using them for both defense and offense in AW. But if we are allowed to use them in questing, I think we should be allowed to use them in AQ & Raids as well.

All in all, a mode I'm sure I'll enjoy more as I join a new more dedicated ally next cycle. But I do think needs some ironing out to be as fun as this really did seemed aimed to be!

krystolix · January 22

Too be honest, this for me, was the final nail in the coffin for continued alliance mode content that continually gets worse and worse.

The ai sucks for it. The nodes weren't that bad, they could knock the ferver needed to form charges from 50 down to 25 and that would be nice.

A change that needed to happen before this content went live was the revive and potion from little ammounts to percentages to make it actually like we have health when starting a fight (using saved up aq revives of the 1.6k hp kind seemed very idiotic/impossible to do anything when fighting Thanos).

130m health pool/10% damage cap/only two raid revives seems like a very poorly thought out implementation, also it stretched everything out and makes people feel like no progress is being made. With officers trying to get people to spend units (200 a pop for only 60% hp 🤮🤮🤮 for a guaranteed death at that!) because they feel that 7.5k 7* shards is worth it....

RNG rewards... Don't even need to share my opinion on that, it's been hammered down in this thread and countless others so far.

These are my thoughts so far.

Don7314 · January 22

I think with a few small changes this mode will be much more enjoyable. Calm down the pierce by a lot. And one mistake dexing Maestro’s L1 should not have that much degen. Especially with the lag this game sees. My screen stutters on specials a lot and makes dexing specials impossible sometimes. And to die from full health sucks.

ahmynuts · January 22

Don7314 said:
I think with a few small changes this mode will be much more enjoyable. Calm down the pierce by a lot. And one mistake dexing Maestro’s L1 should not have that much degen. Especially with the lag this game sees. My screen stutters on specials a lot and makes dexing specials impossible sometimes. And to die from full health sucks.

I still cant believe they had the audacity to give Maestro his black iso back after they took it away for the release of the champ

SandeepS · January 22

It was a bad show. Lots of things went wrong and didn't have a great customer experience. Was like giving a prototype to a customer.

Suggestion: refund the items and give the tokens back so we can try again but with the problems fixed. It's once a month so there is hopefully enough time to do it.

SummonerNR · January 23

Sparhauk said:

I posted this after my original thread that was a little more critical was not on the forum. If it wasn't deleted, then apologies.

Was it more than just critical though. Like tending towards more abusive, conspiratorial, demeaning, etc ? (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, so probably is due to below..)

Or if not, could have been that when trying to do a couple times of Editing it after initial post tends to result in that initial post (like even with replies in another post after editing a reply more than once) getting auto-flagged as “Pending, Marked for Review”. Which if on weekend would take while for an actual person to get around to looking at. Which by then if they end up seeing (as is common) that new post or comment is just made by poster instead then original may not need to be re-showed since you already did another one discussing same thing. Part of that I’m guessing is sort of internal mechanism of the Forum system.

Which, sounds like original might have been lengthy, so did you go back in a couple times to do more edits afterwards ??

Sparhauk · January 23

Wozzle007 said:

Kabam Miike said:

Sparhauk said:
I mean in a way that doesn't end with our discussion just getting deleted, or getting a childish rebuke from a moderator?

Hey OP, if you want to provide feedback on the game mode, you can just do that. Take a look around, there's lots of direct feedback from players, and we're taking it all into account. We also don't just shut things down if people are critical of us. That's a false narrative that people have made up and try to cling to. There's a lot of critical feedback out there, and it's just as valid as the positive feedback.

We have A LOT of feedback to review, and we'll be sure to address as much as we can when we have something to say. The team is already looking at changes we can make going forward, and I want to thank everybody who gave actionable and constructive feedback. Don't expect to hear anything right away, but I want to work with the team to come up with something that we can share as sort of a mini-roadmap for changes you can expect in the short and long term of Raids.
I’m not a games developer and this is a genuine question. Is it not easier for the developers to get it right first time, then it is implement something that has so many substantial issues that it requires road map to fix? I’m thinking this is a very similar situation to Battle Grounds implementation.

I appreciate the game can’t be developed by committee. It just seems that a large portion of the player base could have provided the game team with some insight into the pitfalls of the game design long before it was released. The team could then choose what feedback to adopt or ignore. It can’t be good a feeling to see something brand new in the game so universally criticised. This comes off the back of a massive win from Necropolis to give some balance. But original Battle Grounds was poorly received, July 4th massively overtuned, Necropolis was great, Cyber Week undertuned, Banquet undertuned, Raids poorly received. It feels like there is a disconnect between Kabams aims and what players want. I don’t think the answer is the players need to get over it, but I do think Kabam needs to have more of what there customers want (both FTP and paying) at the heart of game design. Figuring out how to monetise it should be secondary. If people are having fun, they’ll always be a way to add monetary cost, but enjoyment first.

I am a software developer, not specifically games, but complicated financial software. And I guarantee the developers is not where this thing went off the rails. The project manager likely didn't have fully realized requirements from the game designers. The QA team clearly didn't have any sort of basic matrix of failure scenarios to test. My guess is there was a C suite exec that thought this would drive revenues, and rammed it rough shod through the poor people tasked with implementing it. That's typically where all software goes wrong.

Sparhauk · January 23

Honestly, there's no world in which logging on 7 days in a row at the exact same time for me, and 2 people from around the globe, fighting 2 fights then hanging it up for 24 hours is ever going to be "fun".

I'll be avoiding it like incursions and battle grounds.

Wozzle007 · January 23

BitterSteel said:

Wozzle007 said:

Kabam Miike said:

Sparhauk said:
I mean in a way that doesn't end with our discussion just getting deleted, or getting a childish rebuke from a moderator?

Hey OP, if you want to provide feedback on the game mode, you can just do that. Take a look around, there's lots of direct feedback from players, and we're taking it all into account. We also don't just shut things down if people are critical of us. That's a false narrative that people have made up and try to cling to. There's a lot of critical feedback out there, and it's just as valid as the positive feedback.

We have A LOT of feedback to review, and we'll be sure to address as much as we can when we have something to say. The team is already looking at changes we can make going forward, and I want to thank everybody who gave actionable and constructive feedback. Don't expect to hear anything right away, but I want to work with the team to come up with something that we can share as sort of a mini-roadmap for changes you can expect in the short and long term of Raids.
. Figuring out how to monetise it should be secondary. If people are having fun, they’ll always be a way to add monetary cost, but enjoyment first.
I appreciate the sentiment, but can you honestly say you believe the community would be fine if Raids was completely free to begin with and then they added tons of ways to monetise it? That sounds like a disaster to me personally.

Unfortunately, fun and monetisation needs to be there at launch and then tweaks made if necessary. Adding monetisation later would cause a storm on the forums, and possibly kill the game mode in the eyes of the community

I don’t mean free to begin with and monetise later after it’s been implemented and dropped in the game. I mean design it to be an enjoyable experience first as the core value of the game mode. It feels like the mode has been designed with someone thinking, how can we design this with as many ways to monetise this as possible. Then build it around that.

Loki_Poki1280 · January 23

Wdym the Thanos block a hit mission is worse than maestro punish heavys and specials?

Just parry and it's gone. If u fight maestro, the weight of you goofing on a special and die is heavier than blocking a hit from thanos.

Both have pierce so blocked hits suck , but maestro is much harder. Especially since as the fight goes on longer, your more likely to mess up.

Not to mention that maestro gets his own passive furies the lower his health gets in combination with everything going on with the nodes as well.

Personally I feel like raids (assuming there won't be extra glory) is 6/10.

Of course alliance will need lots of coordination for this, but the rewards are solid. Also, the glory. Since it was a bug this time, I feel as if Kabam can implement this bug into the actual game to a smaller degree.

Only real problem with raids are the raid chests. They are simply put . . . Unfair.

The difficulty is just right imo. It's not hard, just need everyone on ur team to do their part.

Remove rng aspect and raids is 7.5-8/10,
Increase the glory and raids is 9/10

At least for me. Also I've heard somewhere that Valiants don't have a Selector of their own. I'm not valiant (yet) but they should get a little extra. Their daily crystals are fire, but they should get more benefits outside that.

FunnyDude · January 23

My suggestions are here, beside that, I really don't enjoy the pierce, I wouldn't go mad if Kabam decided to keep it but quite a few people (high percentage) can't take fight like that. I assume this game mode is not designed for hundreds of people, it's supposed to be designed for tens of thousands of people right? The current difficulty and cost are really just for hundreds of people, not sustainable for majority of players .

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/358285/lets-be-constructive-and-talk-about-raid

And again, tuning RAID is one thing, a lot of good suggestions already. Giving out AQ revives and potions to compensate players for testing BETA RAID is also extremely important IMO.

FunnyDude · January 23

Final suggestion on RAID, Champion pool of Assault is really bad, Hulkbuster and Crossbone are the only two can work properly in all fights.

Steam97 · January 23

I personally think that 2 revives per day is definitely not enough, considering the ramp up that needs to be done for every fight (maybe just find a way to save the ramp up from fight to fight or increase the number of free revives). This mode was advertised during the live streaming as possible to be done with only those free revives but considering the ramp up that is impossible. Then as others have said the block mission for thanos is literally impossible to do after a while in the fight with the pierce buffs. In addition to that, the ultron fight timer needs to be raised to 5 minutes and maybe he needs to be unawakened, that regen is not funny at all.

DrZola · January 23

Lots of comments on this thread. Most are good.

I’ve made plenty elsewhere and am confident the team can search for them if they are willing.

Only thing I will reiterate here is this one: fix charge wiping. That’s a terrible feature.

Dr. Zola

Certi · January 23

Loki_Poki1280 said:
Wdym the Thanos block a hit mission is worse than maestro punish heavys and specials?

Just parry and it's gone.

You die from parry.

HERU · January 23

Kabam Miike said:

Hey OP, if you want to provide feedback on the game mode, you can just do that.

Are you considering any form of compensation for the 100% revives appearing in store only after a 30 minutes delay? This prevented many alliances, like mine, to complete the Ultron's fight. We ended up with just 15% left...so frustrating after all the work and units spent.

Sparhauk · January 23

So, on the Thanos block a hit mission. Simplest "fix" would be change it to "hit into block'.

I would like to see it a bit easier to push Maestro to SP2... So frustrating getting degened to death because the lag (running galaxy s23+) that happens frequently on his sp1.

I didn't get to face Kang in this mode...

ahmynuts · January 23

Sparhauk said:
So, on the Thanos block a hit mission. Simplest "fix" would be change it to "hit into block'.

I would like to see it a bit easier to push Maestro to SP2... So frustrating getting degened to death because the lag (running galaxy s23+) that happens frequently on his sp1.

I didn't get to face Kang in this mode...

Kang is tuned like a baby compared to Thanos and Maestro

EBG78 · January 23

If the difficulty doesn’t change significantly, the rewards should be for each BG that clears the map, every member that ran raids gets the per BG rewards. So if three BG’s clear the maps, everyone gets 6 25% T6C crystals, 3 T6B, 3 T3A, and 22,500 7* shards. Otherwise the work done, and items used, to clear just aren’t justified from the current rewards.

Corby11 · January 23

I pretty much liked the raids and understand the intention was that it would be for a limited number of players but not really sure what Kabam felt that demographic would look like, Master level alliances, platinum level alliances etc? But overall I’m not sure why you would create niche content then make it accessible to everyone, why wouldn’t you introduce raids with threat levels similar to incursion rooms and the monthly EQ with appropriate levels of rewards to match if you wanted to give all players access?

I do think they need to keep pushing out content that only people at a top level can achieve otherwise what’s the point of releasing 7* champs and rank up material for them so I have no problem with there been content I can’t clear at my current progression level so my personal preference is rather than make the current version easier for all just introduce different tiers.

That been said if you kept the single tier but made it easier I won’t complain 😂😂.

Ironman3000 · January 23

IMO, Raids feel like an idea that made sense in theory but was created by a team that clearly doesn't have the experience of a normal player. I'm sure to some players, and I'm sure the team that created the mode, the 45 different tasks and nuances of Raids is super cool. To that 99% of players who want to go in a fight and have fun, it's terrible.

They re-introduced entry costs and waiting on ally mates to fight. Who though tit would be a good idea to revert back to what the community hated? That in and of itself is a complete failure.

GroundedWisdom · January 23

Ironman3000 said:
IMO, Raids feel like an idea that made sense in theory but was created by a team that clearly doesn't have the experience of a normal player. I'm sure to some players, and I'm sure the team that created the mode, the 45 different tasks and nuances of Raids is super cool. To that 99% of players who want to go in a fight and have fun, it's terrible.

They re-introduced entry costs and waiting on ally mates to fight. Who though tit would be a good idea to revert back to what the community hated? That in and of itself is a complete failure.

I don't think Raids are aimed at the 99%. I will admit I've seen a number of issues, and people have discussed them, so I don't need to reiterate them. However, not all of it is a miss. It's meant to be a group effort. It's meant to be hard. I don't think it's for the majority of Players. I think it's for the top percentage.

DerpyEagle · January 23

I put up 32 million points(almost half the alliance) and pulled catalysts from all 3 chests

The rng aspect of the chests are upright terrible

Wozzle007 · January 23

@Kabam Miike I would create to modes of entry to the game. 1 totally free, no tickets no anything. 2nd mode of entry £5 per round of raids. I would create a store instead of having the chests. Those who enter free get decent rewards. Those who pay, get an additional item or 2. But the draw for them is after 3 completed raids, they have to clear the Ultron boss they can acquire 7* OG Labyrinth of Legends Ultron. You give this Ultron a buff so his awakened ability really matters and people want to dupe him.

Then after 12 months you change the Ultron Boss to the brand new Infinity Ultron, as per Marvel What If!!!! INFINITY ULTRON! People paid for Morbius, they are paying Infinity Ultron. After beating the Infinity Ultron boss 4 or 6 times the paid ticket entry can quite him via the store. Now tell me people won’t want to pay for this.

We already dual tracks, I don’t think overall people with have a problem with this.

You can then strip out all the annoying mechanics like 10% death, Pierce on boss requiring being blocked, tone down the SP1 degen of Maestro, increase free revives from 2 to 4. Reduce the cost of the 200 unit revive to 100 units, increase the health of the pots available via the glory store. If people think clearing the map is achievable, they’ll pay for the ticket to enter to get the extra super awesome rewards.

cbmx · January 23

I am Japanese and play with the language setting in Japanese, but the node screen did not show the role charge.

After a few days, I realized that I could check the role charge status by switching to English, but I had to restart and switch each time, which was a big disadvantage. We told the alliance members, but many of them had already given up on raids and were no longer willing to earn role charges.

Please do not put us in this sad situation when you are going to include a new game mode. Make sure it's fully confirmed before releasing it.

laserjohn26 · January 23

I would suggest doing it calmy and constructively. Try to use "I" statements. Be concise and clear.

Joeqw · January 23

Concept is solid, and the effort is appreciated - but it was much harder than expected and isn’t something we would do again without change. Given the rewards it’s reasonable to expect a challenge, but we are top 90 (20k prestige), p3 ally and only one bg completed.

Some tweaks could make it more viable -

1. Increase damage cap to 20% and reduce defender health pools/attack values by 25%

2. Increase the timer for defenders to acquire buffs (pierce, etc) - maybe double the time.

3. Remove the linked nodes on boss, but require users to clear 100% map to get max rewards. This would still prevent boss rush but allow a group who arrived at Ultron w two or three days remaining to continue playing the mode. We did this and basically sat at Ultron for several days while the left lane battled Maestro. Made it frustrating.

Interested to see version 2.0

Grub88 · January 23

Sparhauk said:

Wozzle007 said:

Kabam Miike said:

Sparhauk said:
I mean in a way that doesn't end with our discussion just getting deleted, or getting a childish rebuke from a moderator?

Hey OP, if you want to provide feedback on the game mode, you can just do that. Take a look around, there's lots of direct feedback from players, and we're taking it all into account. We also don't just shut things down if people are critical of us. That's a false narrative that people have made up and try to cling to. There's a lot of critical feedback out there, and it's just as valid as the positive feedback.

We have A LOT of feedback to review, and we'll be sure to address as much as we can when we have something to say. The team is already looking at changes we can make going forward, and I want to thank everybody who gave actionable and constructive feedback. Don't expect to hear anything right away, but I want to work with the team to come up with something that we can share as sort of a mini-roadmap for changes you can expect in the short and long term of Raids.
I’m not a games developer and this is a genuine question. Is it not easier for the developers to get it right first time, then it is implement something that has so many substantial issues that it requires road map to fix? I’m thinking this is a very similar situation to Battle Grounds implementation.

I appreciate the game can’t be developed by committee. It just seems that a large portion of the player base could have provided the game team with some insight into the pitfalls of the game design long before it was released. The team could then choose what feedback to adopt or ignore. It can’t be good a feeling to see something brand new in the game so universally criticised. This comes off the back of a massive win from Necropolis to give some balance. But original Battle Grounds was poorly received, July 4th massively overtuned, Necropolis was great, Cyber Week undertuned, Banquet undertuned, Raids poorly received. It feels like there is a disconnect between Kabams aims and what players want. I don’t think the answer is the players need to get over it, but I do think Kabam needs to have more of what there customers want (both FTP and paying) at the heart of game design. Figuring out how to monetise it should be secondary. If people are having fun, they’ll always be a way to add monetary cost, but enjoyment first.
I am a software developer, not specifically games, but complicated financial software. And I guarantee the developers is not where this thing went off the rails. The project manager likely didn't have fully realized requirements from the game designers. The QA team clearly didn't have any sort of basic matrix of failure scenarios to test. My guess is there was a C suite exec that thought this would drive revenues, and rammed it rough shod through the poor people tasked with implementing it. That's typically where all software goes wrong.

Industrial software developer here, totally agree that they are pushing content out too quickly with no proper testing. I think that is exactly what everyone is saying. Kabam seem like they are in trouble financially to have to sacrifice quality for quantity.

It is the exact same story with pushing out so many new characters. There are so many old character interactions that are still bugged and they are still releasing new ones. I recon it would be all spaghetti code, that's why its easier to just release it and see what breaks

Venoween · January 23

HungaryHippo said:

JoseOk said:
Here’s a suggestion, remove the dang piercing. It does way too much damage… don’t have nodes that require getting hit on the block.

And it should be more like 5 free Revives a day. You donkeys!!
What have donkeys done to deserve this?

The big ears are oppressive. Lol

FunnyDude · January 24

Today I heard from my in-game friend that his alliance is going to disband because of RAID, it's too expensive, too stressful, and unfair because of RNG, so some key players decided to quit and there is no way for the alliance to keep at the same level without those players.

If we go through all the recent changes in the game, we can easily realize all of them lead to the same direction "expensive":

No more revive farming: I think this is a reasonable change and it will definitely make devs easier when they design end-game content. The only problem is timing, because it makes the game more expensive and the next two things unfortunately go on the same direction.
AW tactics: Kabam decided to increase the difficulty of war tactics to make devs happy, but potion changes are lagging behind for ages. My alliance decided to push in the last season and we made "master" at the end, but it is very expensive. I spent more than 2K units on potions and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one, I'm fine because I'm a whale, but some players in my alliance started to complain, so we decided to give up the next season and only use 1-loyalty revives.
RAID: the last straw, we all knew what has happened, super difficult and expensive (I spent 1.6K units), horrible RNG. Many players used up all their stashed AQ potions and units, they are simply not able to do it again if things keep unchanged.

Again, I am a semi-supporter of removing revive farming, but if you check the timing, all these changes happened in one month, all these changes make the game way more expensive. So I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I'm just telling the fact: after all these changes happen at the same time, some people just step away from the game.

How do we express our feelings on raids?

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