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Kabam why are you so far behind your own game?

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    startropicsstartropics Posts: 673 ★★★★
    generally speaking, not every area need to be buffed to current standards. it's easier and better for players if big highly visible game modes get a big buff than spreading rewards across the entire game.

    and it's all calculated way in advance anyway. they could buff the 7hr solo event but then BGs or AW would be less appealing.

    the only thing they've always been behind in is the potion economy, especially in war, but that's another issue altogether.
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    SammyDeSammyDe Posts: 959 ★★★
    My understanding is that Necropolis is to challenge endgame users and reward them with the new title upon exploration (unless you spend big on the last cyber weekend).
    This acted as an express pass to Valiant. Unfortunately that also means that you will have to wait for people to catch up before they have enough people to roll out more changes. That’s why we have not really seen any meaningful (or at all) T4A in any content thus far.
    I suspect besides the current perks, the next Valiant ones will be Valentine’s Day deals and then Spring Cleaning ones. Once we have more Valiants, they will introduce the next difficulty by July 4 week.
    On the other hand, you can argue that if you keep getting great perks and awesome rewards, then you will also speed up the process and get 8* years earlier which is probably also not good for the game. Pacing is important too.
    Maybe just sit back and enjoy the game and prepare for the next challenge?
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    WhiteKnightWhiteKnight Posts: 333 ★★★
    No I definitely asked a question I want answered...

    I don't know if maybe I'm too direct? I pointed out multiple areas where I feel like Kabam are behind and then asked the question of why.

    As someone pointed out, Paragon players had to wait months before any kind of tailored difficulty came out and as I pointed out TB difficulty wasn't introduced until Paragon title was released.

    I had a genuine question that I would like a genuine answer for as this is clearly a reoccurring issue, I see nothing but complaints on the forums, YouTube channels and multiple chats I'm in that things need to be updated quicker and yet Kabam do nothing and don't change.

    Finally, Kabam couldn't cover my wage 😂 I also have a life, my own house, dog, Mrs and child and I enjoy playing this game and I'm competitive by nature so I want to be challenged not feel like I'm breezing through a game I've played for 8 years I aren't quite ready to give up 😅
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    WhiteKnightWhiteKnight Posts: 333 ★★★
    SammyDe said:

    My understanding is that Necropolis is to challenge endgame users and reward them with the new title upon exploration (unless you spend big on the last cyber weekend).
    This acted as an express pass to Valiant. Unfortunately that also means that you will have to wait for people to catch up before they have enough people to roll out more changes. That’s why we have not really seen any meaningful (or at all) T4A in any content thus far.
    I suspect besides the current perks, the next Valiant ones will be Valentine’s Day deals and then Spring Cleaning ones. Once we have more Valiants, they will introduce the next difficulty by July 4 week.
    On the other hand, you can argue that if you keep getting great perks and awesome rewards, then you will also speed up the process and get 8* years earlier which is probably also not good for the game. Pacing is important too.
    Maybe just sit back and enjoy the game and prepare for the next challenge?

    You see I get this completely... but there isn't even Paragon level difficulty and Valiant is out, they aren't going to drop Valiant EQ before Paragon which just highlights the issues.

    It's like playing a leveled based game such as Fallout, you work hard to get upto level 60/70/100 IMAGINE if all your enemies capped out at level 40, this is the same thing; we get the opportunity to reach these high levels and yet nothing to do with it
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,974 Guardian

    No I definitely asked a question I want answered...

    I don't know if maybe I'm too direct? I pointed out multiple areas where I feel like Kabam are behind and then asked the question of why.

    As someone pointed out, Paragon players had to wait months before any kind of tailored difficulty came out and as I pointed out TB difficulty wasn't introduced until Paragon title was released.

    What we were waiting for in every case is for enough players to catch up to the title to make it worth development time to dedicate content targeted at that otherwise tiny slice of players.
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    WhiteKnightWhiteKnight Posts: 333 ★★★
    edited January 26

    What we were waiting for in every case is for enough players to catch up to the title to make it worth development time to dedicate content targeted at that otherwise tiny slice of players.


    But that just means the players pushing for these titles aren't worth Kabams efforts as there's so few of them?

    Off topic, but with the Mythic title fiasco, that doesn't shock me 😂

    And I think by now, most people who play this game at a moderately high level are Paragon and yet no Paragon level difficulty
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,974 Guardian

    SammyDe said:

    My understanding is that Necropolis is to challenge endgame users and reward them with the new title upon exploration (unless you spend big on the last cyber weekend).
    This acted as an express pass to Valiant. Unfortunately that also means that you will have to wait for people to catch up before they have enough people to roll out more changes. That’s why we have not really seen any meaningful (or at all) T4A in any content thus far.
    I suspect besides the current perks, the next Valiant ones will be Valentine’s Day deals and then Spring Cleaning ones. Once we have more Valiants, they will introduce the next difficulty by July 4 week.
    On the other hand, you can argue that if you keep getting great perks and awesome rewards, then you will also speed up the process and get 8* years earlier which is probably also not good for the game. Pacing is important too.
    Maybe just sit back and enjoy the game and prepare for the next challenge?

    You see I get this completely... but there isn't even Paragon level difficulty and Valiant is out, they aren't going to drop Valiant EQ before Paragon which just highlights the issues.

    It's like playing a leveled based game such as Fallout, you work hard to get upto level 60/70/100 IMAGINE if all your enemies capped out at level 40, this is the same thing; we get the opportunity to reach these high levels and yet nothing to do with it
    That's a problem with all progressional games. In a sense, progressional games are building roads for the players to drive on, as they are driving on them. If they extended the road as soon as the fastest driver reached the end of it, they would be spending all their time trying to keep ahead of that one fastest driver. Instead, they wait until enough drivers reach the end of the road to build an extension of it to allow them to drive further down it.

    If you are one of the fastest progress players in any progression game, you're going to have to wait for at least some nominal number of other players to catch up to you before the game developers spend significant time on extending the road out there or building an amusement park that only a tiny percentage of players have enough gas to reach.

    On top of that, where the driving metaphor breaks down is acceleration. When you make content suitably challenging for the fastest players in the game, it generally also has to be rewarding enough for those players to want to do it. But rewards scaled to content challenging enough for the highest progression players will, out of sheer necessity, propel them to the next theoretical progression tier even faster. Which means even if you tried to keep up with those players, those players would get faster and faster without limit. Either you eventually have to throttle their rewards, and make future end game content unrewarding, or you have to slow down end game content. But if you do it later instead of now, the problem would be vastly worse, because the players you are throttling will not be one progression tier or two higher than the average player and the average piece of content, they will be several more higher and even more bored with even less to challenge them.
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    Mr.0-8-4Mr.0-8-4 Posts: 470 ★★★
    Glassback said:

    Have you tried telling the barista at Starbucks you’re a valiant?

    I damn near spit my coffee out while implosively coughing, desperately trying to catch my breath lmao
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    WhiteKnightWhiteKnight Posts: 333 ★★★
    edited January 26
    I honestly cannot dispute that it makes complete sense 😅

    I think the only thing I can say in this instance is there are those blasting forward in Ferraris, Lambos that need to be slowed down but even the players in the Porsche haven't got the road to drive on either 🤷‍♂️ what I'm trying to say is, the highest level not having a difficulty I can understand but for the second highest level to not have their own challenge after this level being introduced around a year ago isn't really adequate
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    WhiteKnightWhiteKnight Posts: 333 ★★★
    Mr.0-8-4 said:

    Glassback said:

    Have you tried telling the barista at Starbucks you’re a valiant?

    I damn near spit my coffee out while implosively coughing, desperately trying to catch my breath lmao
    Even called the manager from the back so make sure they knew too 😎
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,974 Guardian

    I honestly cannot dispute that it makes complete sense 😅

    I think the only thing I can say in this instance is there are those blasting forward in Ferraris, Lambos that need to be slowed down but even the players in the Porsche haven't got the road to drive on either 🤷‍♂️ what I'm trying to say is, the highest level not having a difficulty I can understand but for the second highest level to not have their own challenge after this level being introduced around a year ago isn't really adequate

    The Paragon tier of difficulty is the Paragon Gauntlet challenge. Which to be honest is perfectly fine with me. I know it is gated on TB exploration so this is a matter of preference, but I personally prefer to explore TB and then knock out a Boss Rush style challenge map for Paragon rewards than potentially have to explore two full six map tiers to get maximum TB and Paragon rewards. And if Paragon tier existed, I would assume most higher progress players would want to fully explore at least that tier to maximize rewards, so the choice would be, for most players, complete TB and then explore Paragon, or explore TB and then Boss Rush Paragon. I personally like that latter choice more, as the difficulty gets focused more on the less grindy part.

    I would not be surprised to see a Valiant Gauntlet before we see a Paragon difficulty tier. And I would prefer to not have too many full tiers added to monthly EQ.
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    KeonexKeonex Posts: 312 ★★★
    I agree we definitely need monthly events to be tailored in difficulty to progression levels.

    we aren’t even asking for a whole new event, boosting up health and attack values could be enough to prove a challenge.

    Valiant definitely needs something more.

    more levels to side quest would be great too.

    Why are Valiant going after same rewards month by month than Thronebreaker, what is the point of progression based titles if you aren’t actively participating at higher progression events
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    ahmynutsahmynuts Posts: 6,537 ★★★★★
    Keonex said:

    I agree we definitely need monthly events to be tailored in difficulty to progression levels.

    we aren’t even asking for a whole new event, boosting up health and attack values could be enough to prove a challenge.

    Valiant definitely needs something more.

    more levels to side quest would be great too.

    Why are Valiant going after same rewards month by month than Thronebreaker, what is the point of progression based titles if you aren’t actively participating at higher progression events

    An interesting point raised by Keonex. How will DNA3000 respond? Find out next time on mcoc forum arguments z
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    BringPopcornBringPopcorn Posts: 3,331 ★★★★★
    So Paragons got the gaunlet like what? 6 months ago or so?.. after years of being the top progression level.
    And valiants are complaining after a few months? Lol...
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,974 Guardian
    Keonex said:

    Why are Valiant going after same rewards month by month than Thronebreaker, what is the point of progression based titles if you aren’t actively participating at higher progression events

    That's a good question. I'm Valiant, and I know a few Valiants, and while I cannot speak for anyone but myself, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of players who are Valiant now knew going in that there was no giant pot of gold waiting for them. They knew there was no Valiant tier difficulty, and one would not be forthcoming soon. So why did any of us bother?

    Because, that's who we are. We didn't need large incentives to push for Valiant. We did it because we pushed for Paragon, and Thronebreaker, and Cavalier. We did not need extra rewards or opportunities to incentivize us to go for it. Most of us would have probably pushed for it even if the rewards were lower.

    You don't pay people to do what they are going to do anyway. You encourage people to do more, when you need to encourage people to do more. The Valiant title still has new car smell. Slowly, over time, the devs will add more content and more rewards intended for or targeting Valiants. They'll do that at a relatively slow pace, to give Valiant as much time in the sun as possible. They more rewarding it is, and the more incentives there are to push for it, the more players will actually push harder and harder to get it. Title inflation will start over again as it did for every other title, and inflation never goes backwards. Rewards will only get higher, and as they do the clamor from the Paragon's to make Valiant more available to them so they don't get left behind will grow louder, and progress will accelerate from Paragon to Valiant, and as a side effect from Thronebreaker to Paragon, and in a finite amount of time we'll have to do this all over again.

    The devs intend the game to be around for the next ten years or more. They are in no hurry to be adding more progression tiers every eighteen months. So the answer to your question is honestly, at the moment there isn't a lot of point to becoming Valiant. Most Valiant players are Valiant because they have their own personal motivations to keep pushing upward, to be one of the first, regardless of whether there's anything there when they get there. They get to say I was there first, before the devs made it easier to get to, and before there was as much obvious rewards for doing so. Those players get to have their time, and then the game will move on and give the next bunch of players their time.
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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,386 ★★★★★
    Keonex said:

    I agree we definitely need monthly events to be tailored in difficulty to progression levels.

    we aren’t even asking for a whole new event, boosting up health and attack values could be enough to prove a challenge.

    Valiant definitely needs something more.

    more levels to side quest would be great too.

    Why are Valiant going after same rewards month by month than Thronebreaker, what is the point of progression based titles if you aren’t actively participating at higher progression events

    You were Paragon 2 months ago. Calm down.
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    ahmynutsahmynuts Posts: 6,537 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Keonex said:

    Why are Valiant going after same rewards month by month than Thronebreaker, what is the point of progression based titles if you aren’t actively participating at higher progression events

    That's a good question. I'm Valiant, and I know a few Valiants, and while I cannot speak for anyone but myself, I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of players who are Valiant now knew going in that there was no giant pot of gold waiting for them. They knew there was no Valiant tier difficulty, and one would not be forthcoming soon. So why did any of us bother?

    Because, that's who we are. We didn't need large incentives to push for Valiant. We did it because we pushed for Paragon, and Thronebreaker, and Cavalier. We did not need extra rewards or opportunities to incentivize us to go for it. Most of us would have probably pushed for it even if the rewards were lower.

    You don't pay people to do what they are going to do anyway. You encourage people to do more, when you need to encourage people to do more. The Valiant title still has new car smell. Slowly, over time, the devs will add more content and more rewards intended for or targeting Valiants. They'll do that at a relatively slow pace, to give Valiant as much time in the sun as possible. They more rewarding it is, and the more incentives there are to push for it, the more players will actually push harder and harder to get it. Title inflation will start over again as it did for every other title, and inflation never goes backwards. Rewards will only get higher, and as they do the clamor from the Paragon's to make Valiant more available to them so they don't get left behind will grow louder, and progress will accelerate from Paragon to Valiant, and as a side effect from Thronebreaker to Paragon, and in a finite amount of time we'll have to do this all over again.

    The devs intend the game to be around for the next ten years or more. They are in no hurry to be adding more progression tiers every eighteen months. So the answer to your question is honestly, at the moment there isn't a lot of point to becoming Valiant. Most Valiant players are Valiant because they have their own personal motivations to keep pushing upward, to be one of the first, regardless of whether there's anything there when they get there. They get to say I was there first, before the devs made it easier to get to, and before there was as much obvious rewards for doing so. Those players get to have their time, and then the game will move on and give the next bunch of players their time.
    I think the disconnect is coming from the expectation that there should be a pot of gold immediately at the end of the rainbow versus the reality being that there is not one and it needs to gradually fill up.

    Don't get me wrong, I would love for there to be more for us already, especially since this is the hardest they've pushed a title to the players, but that's pretty much the only reason why. The titles usually take a while to have all of their benefits rolled out. Newer players also arent as used to that which i think also needs to be taken into consideration. Which is also wild to say the words newer players in the same context as valiant
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    PT_99PT_99 Posts: 3,038 ★★★★★
    Pikolu said:

    PT_99 said:

    A_Fungi said:

    Another one?

    If posts keep coming then it means indeed there's an issue right? Surely no one complains for sake of it.
    You sure about that?
    There's always a bad fish in pond
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    Scopeotoe987Scopeotoe987 Posts: 1,550 ★★★★★
    Honestly the most out of date feature I can think of is the daily objective crystals, introduced at the cavalier level we haven’t seen a upgrade for them since release, & it’s sad because they could genuinely make the case for daily objectives being fun to chase again
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    ReignkingTWReignkingTW Posts: 2,630 ★★★★★
    So...would it be possible for Kabam to be ahead in their game?
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    Sunstar19Sunstar19 Posts: 118
    Although I understand the intent of Valiant players wanting a Valiant difficulty in monthly event quest and side quest, there is no suggestion how to make this level of difficulty fun and unique.

    Today, the unique nodes exist only in TB level, while the rest are just variations of health with the same general mode. This is perfectly fine for me as I don’t want to spend time in each level Cavalier, Uncollected to customise my team for specific counters, too much time and efforts. I would prefer to strategise for TB level then work through the rest testing some new champs in the preferred class for non TB difficulties. On side quest, i believe this is an additional way to give players rewards, not meant to be an excruciating quest. It needs to be simple, straightforward without much hassle. This design allows the game to be enjoyed by the masses.
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    KeonexKeonex Posts: 312 ★★★
    it would be great if Kabam took a month instead of releasing new champs to instead focus on releasing higher difficulty content to existing events

    Higher Monthly EQ, Side Event, Solo Events, Arena.

    Stuff to make login in daily worthwhile rather than just claiming daily crystals.

    Also would love weekly Raids instead than once per month
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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,386 ★★★★★
    Keonex said:

    it would be great if Kabam took a month instead of releasing new champs to instead focus on releasing higher difficulty content to existing events

    Higher Monthly EQ, Side Event, Solo Events, Arena.

    Stuff to make login in daily worthwhile rather than just claiming daily crystals.

    Also would love weekly Raids instead than once per month

    Because champion designers aren't the same people who design quests.
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