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Why would Magik be too OP as a 6 star now?

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    Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 3,035 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Wicket329 said:

    Zuko_ILC said:

    BitterSteel said:

    1. That’s not why she’s powerful. She fully locks down champions without them being able to throw a special or gain power. It’s why since then most power controllers have something at stake, White Tiger, Idoom and Fanta all have the opponent at high power with a risk of them throwing it. Viv reduces power gain and drains, but still baits specials.
    2. She is the best power controller for a lot of the game. She’s as powerful, if not more powerful, as Doom at controlling power. And everyone knows how broken doom is. Why don’t you think she’s the best power controller for a lot of the game? Additionally, the existence of counters to power control isn’t an argument against her being too OP.
    3. Limbo isn’t why she’s too powerful
    4. Counters existing isn’t an argument against a champ being too OP. You can point to champions who nullify shutting down Herc’s immortality but he’s still ridiculously powerful
    5.
    6. See 5
    7. AQ isnt a great measuring stick for whether a champion is too powerful
    8. That’s because she’s not on the list of roles
    9. She probably is quite good for incursions with power control and sustainability, but incursions isn’t a measuring stick for whether champions are too powerful
    10. depending defenders, Magik works for path 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8. And can work for some nodes on the other paths - even 9 with a synergy. She works for 7 of the minis and also boss node. I disagree with her not being able to dominate war maps
    11. The current AW meta revolves around specials, take that away and the tactic is no threat. It’s why people have been using Vision(s). So I disagree with her not countering AW metas. Prowess power is another she counters, which was power gain.
    12. She’s not a long form content champ, though I can imagine her working well for some of the EoP fights
    13. She would be very strong for BGs, and the ability to ban someone isn’t an argument against how OP someone is

    White Tiger and vision needs nerfed cuz you can essentially prevent your opponents from throwing a special. Just hold block and then use your specials. So if magik is too OP then these 2 really shouldn't be in the game either.
    White Tiger and Vision both require very specific play styles and can be thwarted by something as simple as increased power gain rate or any kind of passive power gain. Magik fully power locks the opponent at 0 power. There is nobody comparable in the game. The two closest are Psylocke and Dormammu, who also just objectively aren’t as effective at it as Magik.
    Magik just like everyone else(vision and white tiger) has her weakness..debuff shruggers cannot be fully and completely power locked. Debuff immune nodes for the same reason.
    Okay… what percentage of the game does that apply to? And do you really want Kabam to start designing content with even more Tenacity/Debuff Immunity nodes just to counter one character?

    These arguments are so shortsighted. Just consider what happens if you get the thing you want, and you’ll realize it’s not good.
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    Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,311 ★★★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Wicket329 said:

    Zuko_ILC said:

    BitterSteel said:

    1. That’s not why she’s powerful. She fully locks down champions without them being able to throw a special or gain power. It’s why since then most power controllers have something at stake, White Tiger, Idoom and Fanta all have the opponent at high power with a risk of them throwing it. Viv reduces power gain and drains, but still baits specials.
    2. She is the best power controller for a lot of the game. She’s as powerful, if not more powerful, as Doom at controlling power. And everyone knows how broken doom is. Why don’t you think she’s the best power controller for a lot of the game? Additionally, the existence of counters to power control isn’t an argument against her being too OP.
    3. Limbo isn’t why she’s too powerful
    4. Counters existing isn’t an argument against a champ being too OP. You can point to champions who nullify shutting down Herc’s immortality but he’s still ridiculously powerful
    5.
    6. See 5
    7. AQ isnt a great measuring stick for whether a champion is too powerful
    8. That’s because she’s not on the list of roles
    9. She probably is quite good for incursions with power control and sustainability, but incursions isn’t a measuring stick for whether champions are too powerful
    10. depending defenders, Magik works for path 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8. And can work for some nodes on the other paths - even 9 with a synergy. She works for 7 of the minis and also boss node. I disagree with her not being able to dominate war maps
    11. The current AW meta revolves around specials, take that away and the tactic is no threat. It’s why people have been using Vision(s). So I disagree with her not countering AW metas. Prowess power is another she counters, which was power gain.
    12. She’s not a long form content champ, though I can imagine her working well for some of the EoP fights
    13. She would be very strong for BGs, and the ability to ban someone isn’t an argument against how OP someone is

    White Tiger and vision needs nerfed cuz you can essentially prevent your opponents from throwing a special. Just hold block and then use your specials. So if magik is too OP then these 2 really shouldn't be in the game either.
    White Tiger and Vision both require very specific play styles and can be thwarted by something as simple as increased power gain rate or any kind of passive power gain. Magik fully power locks the opponent at 0 power. There is nobody comparable in the game. The two closest are Psylocke and Dormammu, who also just objectively aren’t as effective at it as Magik.
    Magik just like everyone else(vision and white tiger) has her weakness..debuff shruggers cannot be fully and completely power locked. Debuff immune nodes for the same reason.
    Okay… what percentage of the game does that apply to? And do you really want Kabam to start designing content with even more Tenacity/Debuff Immunity nodes just to counter one character?

    These arguments are so shortsighted. Just consider what happens if you get the thing you want, and you’ll realize it’s not good.
    Honestly!! You are the one who started off counting the weakness of champs like vision and white tiger and said that simple passive power gain will thwart them. I am just pointing out the same can be said about magik. Get a grip my dear!! You seem to be forgetting your own arguments for being too far sighted.
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    BringPopcornBringPopcorn Posts: 2,738 ★★★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    I think any champ we can't have as a 6 or 7 star, shouldn't be a defender in any quest as a 6 or 7*

    Hehe remember when they put a 6* Wolverine in a quest and everyone freaked out thinking it was comming out the next month lol
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    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,053 ★★★★★
    BringPopcorn said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    I think any champ we can't have as a 6 or 7 star, shouldn't be a defender in any quest as a 6 or 7*

    Hehe remember when they put a 6* Wolverine in a quest and everyone freaked out thinking it was comming out the next month lol
    Yep. We've had magik as a 7* defender before too and that limbo damage sux.
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    2StarKing2StarKing Posts: 855 ★★★
    White Tiger is the new Magik
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    smdam38smdam38 Posts: 846 ★★★
    Does anyone remember when nobody wanted Magik?
    She was a trash champion that nobody wanted.
    She got buffed to her overpowered level that she’s at now?

    I don’t expect the devs to see the future. But they did this. Nobody else. You buffed too hard.
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    Zeke_the_XbotZeke_the_Xbot Posts: 329 ★★
    If you can completely control the enemies power you steal all threat they pose for 99% of champs
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    BringPopcornBringPopcorn Posts: 2,738 ★★★★★
    Zemo got "nerfed" cause his mechanic was similar to what Magik can do.... Just think about it.. lock you and not let the defender throw Sps...
    Compare it to the Ronan cheese you get once in a while if want, except that Ronan cant do it all the time against every champ... That doesnt stop players from taking a 4-5* and doing 1000 hits just to cheese it...
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    Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Posts: 768 ★★★★
    So are you saying someone could relatively easily complete most of Act 6/7 with a maxed out and ascended Magik?

    Ascension puts her close to 6*R3 level damage and health so is she a cheat code for Act 6/7 as a 5*?
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    smdam38smdam38 Posts: 846 ★★★
    Is she now?
    Show me how overpowered she is. Run through it with her.
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    Vegeta9001Vegeta9001 Posts: 1,348 ★★★★
    smdam38 said:

    Does anyone remember when nobody wanted Magik?
    She was a trash champion that nobody wanted.
    She got buffed to her overpowered level that she’s at now?

    I don’t expect the devs to see the future. But they did this. Nobody else. You buffed too hard.

    Bring back rewind magik
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,687 Guardian
    smdam38 said:

    Does anyone remember when nobody wanted Magik?
    She was a trash champion that nobody wanted.
    She got buffed to her overpowered level that she’s at now?

    I don’t expect the devs to see the future. But they did this. Nobody else. You buffed too hard.

    I remember. What I remember is that when Magik was "buffed" the consensus opinion, or at least the consensus opinion of the vocal part of the community, was that she was made worse. I was one of the few people who seemed to think she was much better. Maybe because back then I was a scrub, and power control was immensely powerful to someone who was still learning the game.

    And then one of those celeb challenge maps came out, I forget which one specifically, and it turned the tide on how the mainstream consensus opinion viewed power control. And there were other things like that Magik vs Starburst video that showed how powerful Limbo could be on offense. It took the players a very long time to come around to how powerful Magik was. It wasn't just the devs who couldn't foresee how strong she would be, the players couldn't just plain see how strong she was, until enough time had passed for enough players to come around to it.

    Magik was actually the first time it was demonstrated to me that the vocal majority is not always right, and sometimes not even close to being right, and most importantly it often reflects this completely ludicrous attitude that what matters most is what the highest skilled players need to do the highest difficulty content in the game. If it isn't useful in top difficulty content, who cares. And if it does something that other champs already do, who cares. And if it is only good in content I already did, who cares.

    99.9% of the players care, and 100% of the developers.

    And yes, they did that. They are responsible for all changes made to all champions, and they are also singularly responsible for taking any corrective action necessary. No one is blaming the players, they are not at fault for anything. But nerfs are not punishment for something they were not at fault for causing. They aren't punishment at all. They are just what happens in a game as a service. Some changes you're not going to like.
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    Wakandas_FinestWakandas_Finest Posts: 827 ★★★★
    Wicket329 said:

    Zuko_ILC said:

    BitterSteel said:

    1. That’s not why she’s powerful. She fully locks down champions without them being able to throw a special or gain power. It’s why since then most power controllers have something at stake, White Tiger, Idoom and Fanta all have the opponent at high power with a risk of them throwing it. Viv reduces power gain and drains, but still baits specials.
    2. She is the best power controller for a lot of the game. She’s as powerful, if not more powerful, as Doom at controlling power. And everyone knows how broken doom is. Why don’t you think she’s the best power controller for a lot of the game? Additionally, the existence of counters to power control isn’t an argument against her being too OP.
    3. Limbo isn’t why she’s too powerful
    4. Counters existing isn’t an argument against a champ being too OP. You can point to champions who nullify shutting down Herc’s immortality but he’s still ridiculously powerful
    5.
    6. See 5
    7. AQ isnt a great measuring stick for whether a champion is too powerful
    8. That’s because she’s not on the list of roles
    9. She probably is quite good for incursions with power control and sustainability, but incursions isn’t a measuring stick for whether champions are too powerful
    10. depending defenders, Magik works for path 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8. And can work for some nodes on the other paths - even 9 with a synergy. She works for 7 of the minis and also boss node. I disagree with her not being able to dominate war maps
    11. The current AW meta revolves around specials, take that away and the tactic is no threat. It’s why people have been using Vision(s). So I disagree with her not countering AW metas. Prowess power is another she counters, which was power gain.
    12. She’s not a long form content champ, though I can imagine her working well for some of the EoP fights
    13. She would be very strong for BGs, and the ability to ban someone isn’t an argument against how OP someone is

    White Tiger and vision needs nerfed cuz you can essentially prevent your opponents from throwing a special. Just hold block and then use your specials. So if magik is too OP then these 2 really shouldn't be in the game either.
    White Tiger and Vision both require very specific play styles and can be thwarted by something as simple as increased power gain rate or any kind of passive power gain. Magik fully power locks the opponent at 0 power. There is nobody comparable in the game. The two closest are Psylocke and Dormammu, who also just objectively aren’t as effective at it as Magik.
    You forgot Dr. Voodoo
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,687 Guardian
    Wakandas_Finest said:

    Wicket329 said:

    Zuko_ILC said:

    BitterSteel said:

    1. That’s not why she’s powerful. She fully locks down champions without them being able to throw a special or gain power. It’s why since then most power controllers have something at stake, White Tiger, Idoom and Fanta all have the opponent at high power with a risk of them throwing it. Viv reduces power gain and drains, but still baits specials.
    2. She is the best power controller for a lot of the game. She’s as powerful, if not more powerful, as Doom at controlling power. And everyone knows how broken doom is. Why don’t you think she’s the best power controller for a lot of the game? Additionally, the existence of counters to power control isn’t an argument against her being too OP.
    3. Limbo isn’t why she’s too powerful
    4. Counters existing isn’t an argument against a champ being too OP. You can point to champions who nullify shutting down Herc’s immortality but he’s still ridiculously powerful
    5.
    6. See 5
    7. AQ isnt a great measuring stick for whether a champion is too powerful
    8. That’s because she’s not on the list of roles
    9. She probably is quite good for incursions with power control and sustainability, but incursions isn’t a measuring stick for whether champions are too powerful
    10. depending defenders, Magik works for path 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8. And can work for some nodes on the other paths - even 9 with a synergy. She works for 7 of the minis and also boss node. I disagree with her not being able to dominate war maps
    11. The current AW meta revolves around specials, take that away and the tactic is no threat. It’s why people have been using Vision(s). So I disagree with her not countering AW metas. Prowess power is another she counters, which was power gain.
    12. She’s not a long form content champ, though I can imagine her working well for some of the EoP fights
    13. She would be very strong for BGs, and the ability to ban someone isn’t an argument against how OP someone is

    White Tiger and vision needs nerfed cuz you can essentially prevent your opponents from throwing a special. Just hold block and then use your specials. So if magik is too OP then these 2 really shouldn't be in the game either.
    White Tiger and Vision both require very specific play styles and can be thwarted by something as simple as increased power gain rate or any kind of passive power gain. Magik fully power locks the opponent at 0 power. There is nobody comparable in the game. The two closest are Psylocke and Dormammu, who also just objectively aren’t as effective at it as Magik.
    You forgot Dr. Voodoo
    Voodoo doesn't power lock. He can power burn a lot of power, but he does not have a power lock.

    Magik both power locks and power steals, which means she can both stop power gain and also remove any power that is there. That combination is rare. Dormammu has it but not quite to the same degree.

    The combination of the two effects make Magik's power control much more resilient. If all you have is power lock you can stop power gain, but any breakdown in that lock and the opponent will gain power you cannot take away. Eventually they will get to special attacks unless your control is perfect, and for most players it won't be. Conversely if you have power burn or steal but no power lock your ability to control power can be compromised by anything with sufficient power gain. If the target has enhanced power gain or energize or other related effects power steal and power burn can be overwhelmed.

    Magik's power steal acts as a negative feedback to her power control. The less overall power control she exerts, the more power the opponent will have and the more power she will be able to steal, which will get her to SP2 quicker and reinforce her power locking abilities. There's a lot more margin for error as a result.

    On top of that, most champions with significant power control have to use specials to do it. Magik is very suicide-friendly even in situations where you have to spam specials because she is very specifically recoil-friendly. In fact, back in the day people often said Vision was suicide friendly because he was immune to bleed and poison, but I found Magik far more friendly to those masteries specifically because she was basically recoil immune. Vision could recoil himself to death.
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    HungaryHippoHungaryHippo Posts: 773 ★★★★
    Magik would be the best mystic champ asa a 6*. Immediately rank 5 ascended id available.
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    DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 18,687 Guardian
    BringPopcorn said:

    Zemo got "nerfed" cause his mechanic was similar to what Magik can do.... Just think about it.. lock you and not let the defender throw Sps...
    Compare it to the Ronan cheese you get once in a while if want, except that Ronan cant do it all the time against every champ... That doesnt stop players from taking a 4-5* and doing 1000 hits just to cheese it...

    I think a closer analogy is the Gwenpool nerf. Before she was nerfed, she could simply corner the defender, land an enervate, and then spam heavies and the defender simply couldn't break out of the corner because if the player has reasonable rhythm, the only out is by using a special attack. If you are permanently enervated, you won't gain power from hits. Only passive power gain or bleed immunity would prevent this.

    Magik is even better than this. The problem is that Gwenpool was relatively easy to rebalance without otherwise crippling her capabilities except in this one perma-corner area. Magik is not as easy to nerf without fundamentally taking away what she's actually supposed to be able to do normally. But there's no question in my mind that Magik is better than Gwenpool at doing something Gwenpool was explicitly nerfed to prevent doing.
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    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,375 ★★★★★
    smdam38 said:

    Is she now?
    Show me how overpowered she is. Run through it with her.

    Why should we?

    Your recent comments:



    Perhaps no-one has told you this before, but most people don't respond well to petulant demands, and abuse. Particularly not from anonymous strangers.

    You speak and act as a child. Learn not to, and we'll treat you as a grown-up.
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