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Is it that hard to at least buff more OG champs?

DarkestDestroyerDarkestDestroyer Posts: 2,880 ★★★★★
I can’t even be bothered listing them, but can we at least revisit the OG champs who have been stagnant for years, whilst newer champs always get revisited and tuned up etc.

Just my thoughts, for a start Thor is questioning if he’s even a God.

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    GamerGamer Posts: 10,481 ★★★★★

    I can’t even be bothered listing them, but can we at least revisit the OG champs who have been stagnant for years, whilst newer champs always get revisited and tuned up etc.

    Just my thoughts, for a start Thor is questioning if he’s even a God.

    well smail buff wont work for a very old champion like cyclups ect there need a big one
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    AcidBurn404AcidBurn404 Posts: 332 ★★
    Look at how many great reworks have kabam released. Juggs, hulk, diablo, hulkbuster etc... dont expect every champion in this game to be beyond god tier.
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    Phantomfire500Phantomfire500 Posts: 232 ★★
    Yes
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    The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,783 ★★★★★
    edited February 17
    Buffs, especially reworks that most og champs need, take a ton of time. That said, it is quite frustrating when you have champs like Jane Foster and Luke Cage getting their 500th buff to be good but not great while other champs remain untouched.
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    DarkestDestroyerDarkestDestroyer Posts: 2,880 ★★★★★
    I wasn’t asking if it’s hard, as in difficult. I mean tons of newer champs seem to get reworked over the OH ones. I’m sort of saying, is it that hard to decide to go with mega stale champs over champs who are already at a decent level even if not got tier.
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    PikoluPikolu Posts: 7,102 Guardian

    I wasn’t asking if it’s hard, as in difficult. I mean tons of newer champs seem to get reworked over the OH ones. I’m sort of saying, is it that hard to decide to go with mega stale champs over champs who are already at a decent level even if not got tier.

    New champions have the goals of what they should do, so it is very easy to see if they need changed and it is easy to make the change. Old champions probably don't have these goals, and if they do, then they probably need rewritten. Because of that, it takes much longer to decide older champions to buff because you can't just say "I want to buff Cap America WW2" and then boom have a buff idea for him. Someone like him would need a full rework like we saw with Iron Man/Hulk/OG Spidey which means it will take a long time. It isn't an easy process and isn't even one that one person is over. I imagine the entire rebalance team probably works together to decide who will be reworked when they got time.
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    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,605 ★★★★★
    DarkestDestroyer,

    It's clearly a lot of work; even if sometimes it's hard to see where that work goes, when the buff is released (looking at you, Psycho-man and Nova...)

    Kabam have their own schedule, and unfortunately redesigns are low on their priority list now - probably something to do with (a) Developer time being a limited resource that could be spent on other areas of the game, and (b) buffs/reworks of older champs not being a good profit-making project, I'd guess...

    Although increased player happiness hopefully counts for something, right lads 😉

    If you (or Kabam) want to read some ideas, there are loads of buff suggestions in the Suggestions Thread which, sadly, mostly collect little to no feedback from the 'Community'; suggesting that they're not necessarily a huge priority for many of us, either.

    If you want to buck that trend, I've got a thread here with suggestions for pretty much all the classic champions. Be sure to Like, Disagree, comment, whatever...
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/328552/complete-buff-designs-for-classic-champions/p1
  • Options
    JLordVileJJLordVileJ Posts: 1,788 ★★★

    DarkestDestroyer,

    It's clearly a lot of work; even if sometimes it's hard to see where that work goes, when the buff is released (looking at you, Psycho-man and Nova...)

    Kabam have their own schedule, and unfortunately redesigns are low on their priority list now - probably something to do with (a) Developer time being a limited resource that could be spent on other areas of the game, and (b) buffs/reworks of older champs not being a good profit-making project, I'd guess...

    Although increased player happiness hopefully counts for something, right lads 😉

    If you (or Kabam) want to read some ideas, there are loads of buff suggestions in the Suggestions Thread which, sadly, mostly collect little to no feedback from the 'Community'; suggesting that they're not necessarily a huge priority for many of us, either.

    If you want to buck that trend, I've got a thread here with suggestions for pretty much all the classic champions. Be sure to Like, Disagree, comment, whatever...
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/328552/complete-buff-designs-for-classic-champions/p1

    U tryna say psycho man is bad whilst knowing @Darkraw346 uses forums? Bold man, bold. What did you say you want to wear to your funeral again 💀 lol
  • Options
    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,605 ★★★★★

    DarkestDestroyer,

    It's clearly a lot of work; even if sometimes it's hard to see where that work goes, when the buff is released (looking at you, Psycho-man and Nova...)

    Kabam have their own schedule, and unfortunately redesigns are low on their priority list now - probably something to do with (a) Developer time being a limited resource that could be spent on other areas of the game, and (b) buffs/reworks of older champs not being a good profit-making project, I'd guess...

    Although increased player happiness hopefully counts for something, right lads 😉

    If you (or Kabam) want to read some ideas, there are loads of buff suggestions in the Suggestions Thread which, sadly, mostly collect little to no feedback from the 'Community'; suggesting that they're not necessarily a huge priority for many of us, either.

    If you want to buck that trend, I've got a thread here with suggestions for pretty much all the classic champions. Be sure to Like, Disagree, comment, whatever...
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/328552/complete-buff-designs-for-classic-champions/p1

    U tryna say psycho man is bad whilst knowing @Darkraw346 uses forums? Bold man, bold. What did you say you want to wear to your funeral again 💀 lol
    😉

    Actually I think @Darkraw346 would agree - Psycho-man's buff did very little for him.

    I didn't say he was bad; but he's hard to play, in a way that his buff didn't really change.

    The successful buffs haven't necessarily given a huge damage boost, but have adjusted timings, added refreshes and so on, in a way that reduces the stress of playing them and makes rotations smoother. Shuri, Viv Vision and IMIW being really good examples (wonder why they're all tech? I should have put Red Skull in, too...).

    Psycho-man didn't get any easier to play, and didn't get any better at balancing Utility/Damage. So not a great buff.

    Psycho-man is clearly not too bad - solos in Necropolis are nothing to sneer at!
  • Options
    Darkraw346Darkraw346 Posts: 2,130 ★★★★★

    DarkestDestroyer,

    It's clearly a lot of work; even if sometimes it's hard to see where that work goes, when the buff is released (looking at you, Psycho-man and Nova...)

    Kabam have their own schedule, and unfortunately redesigns are low on their priority list now - probably something to do with (a) Developer time being a limited resource that could be spent on other areas of the game, and (b) buffs/reworks of older champs not being a good profit-making project, I'd guess...

    Although increased player happiness hopefully counts for something, right lads 😉

    If you (or Kabam) want to read some ideas, there are loads of buff suggestions in the Suggestions Thread which, sadly, mostly collect little to no feedback from the 'Community'; suggesting that they're not necessarily a huge priority for many of us, either.

    If you want to buck that trend, I've got a thread here with suggestions for pretty much all the classic champions. Be sure to Like, Disagree, comment, whatever...
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/328552/complete-buff-designs-for-classic-champions/p1

    U tryna say psycho man is bad whilst knowing @Darkraw346 uses forums? Bold man, bold. What did you say you want to wear to your funeral again 💀 lol
    😉

    Actually I think @Darkraw346 would agree - Psycho-man's buff did very little for him.

    I didn't say he was bad; but he's hard to play, in a way that his buff didn't really change.

    The successful buffs haven't necessarily given a huge damage boost, but have adjusted timings, added refreshes and so on, in a way that reduces the stress of playing them and makes rotations smoother. Shuri, Viv Vision and IMIW being really good examples (wonder why they're all tech? I should have put Red Skull in, too...).

    Psycho-man didn't get any easier to play, and didn't get any better at balancing Utility/Damage. So not a great buff.

    Psycho-man is clearly not too bad - solos in Necropolis are nothing to sneer at!
    Yes Psycho man needs a buff, mainly one that just adds damage to his other modes imo, wouldn't hurt if they'd also make his sp2 Hate furies last forever and add a pre fight that allows you to choose a mode and lock it (locking means you CANT rotate modes in the fight)

    If we are already here, these are my suggestions:
    For Fear mode:whenever Psycho man prevents an abillity to trigger during the opponent's speical attack, due to his concussions-inflict an indefinite power sting, max stacks 10. These power stings won't deal a burst of X dmg at the start of the opponent's speical attacks, instead, they will deal a burst of X energy damage EACH time an opponent's abillity fails during his speical attack, these power stings will then reapply.

    For Doubt mode:When an opponent's abillity fails to trigger while blocking, due to Psycho man's concussions-Psycho man gains a Pierce buff of X potency, max stacks 10. when Psycho man hits the opponent's block, inflicts instant Shock, dealing X energy dmg, damage scales with Pierce.

    Now, these two improvements to his kit can either be done with synergies (I'd put the Fear mode improvements as a synergy with White tiger, and the Doubt mode improvements in a synergy with Gladiator, in both cases Psycho man would be locked in to the respective mode, like in Mangog's synergy)
    Otherwise, Kabam can grant Psycho man these changes to his kit as well as as Pre fight abilities, one for each mode, and then the mode you choose from the Pre fights screen-you will be locked into for the duration of the fight, and won't be able to rotate between his modes.

    They also can put these changes to his kit, along with a locking in mechanic, which means for example:
    Whenever Psycho man dashes back and double blocks, lock Psycho man to his current mode, while the lock on is active, Psycho man's last light attack won't rotate modes, instead, it will grant Psycho man an Armor up buff, lasting 15 seconds.

    Also make him miss in his heavy attack like Tigra
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    GrO_ot78GrO_ot78 Posts: 688 ★★★
    We all want (and need…) a Groot buff 🧨💥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

    It shouldn’t be hard at all. Just give him more power, or you could even be lazy and just King Groot him.
  • Options
    JLordVileJJLordVileJ Posts: 1,788 ★★★

    DarkestDestroyer,

    It's clearly a lot of work; even if sometimes it's hard to see where that work goes, when the buff is released (looking at you, Psycho-man and Nova...)

    Kabam have their own schedule, and unfortunately redesigns are low on their priority list now - probably something to do with (a) Developer time being a limited resource that could be spent on other areas of the game, and (b) buffs/reworks of older champs not being a good profit-making project, I'd guess...

    Although increased player happiness hopefully counts for something, right lads 😉

    If you (or Kabam) want to read some ideas, there are loads of buff suggestions in the Suggestions Thread which, sadly, mostly collect little to no feedback from the 'Community'; suggesting that they're not necessarily a huge priority for many of us, either.

    If you want to buck that trend, I've got a thread here with suggestions for pretty much all the classic champions. Be sure to Like, Disagree, comment, whatever...
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/328552/complete-buff-designs-for-classic-champions/p1

    U tryna say psycho man is bad whilst knowing @Darkraw346 uses forums? Bold man, bold. What did you say you want to wear to your funeral again 💀 lol
    😉

    Actually I think @Darkraw346 would agree - Psycho-man's buff did very little for him.

    I didn't say he was bad; but he's hard to play, in a way that his buff didn't really change.

    The successful buffs haven't necessarily given a huge damage boost, but have adjusted timings, added refreshes and so on, in a way that reduces the stress of playing them and makes rotations smoother. Shuri, Viv Vision and IMIW being really good examples (wonder why they're all tech? I should have put Red Skull in, too...).

    Psycho-man didn't get any easier to play, and didn't get any better at balancing Utility/Damage. So not a great buff.

    Psycho-man is clearly not too bad - solos in Necropolis are nothing to sneer at!
    Yes Psycho man needs a buff, mainly one that just adds damage to his other modes imo, wouldn't hurt if they'd also make his sp2 Hate furies last forever and add a pre fight that allows you to choose a mode and lock it (locking means you CANT rotate modes in the fight)

    If we are already here, these are my suggestions:
    For Fear mode:whenever Psycho man prevents an abillity to trigger during the opponent's speical attack, due to his concussions-inflict an indefinite power sting, max stacks 10. These power stings won't deal a burst of X dmg at the start of the opponent's speical attacks, instead, they will deal a burst of X energy damage EACH time an opponent's abillity fails during his speical attack, these power stings will then reapply.

    For Doubt mode:When an opponent's abillity fails to trigger while blocking, due to Psycho man's concussions-Psycho man gains a Pierce buff of X potency, max stacks 10. when Psycho man hits the opponent's block, inflicts instant Shock, dealing X energy dmg, damage scales with Pierce.

    Now, these two improvements to his kit can either be done with synergies (I'd put the Fear mode improvements as a synergy with White tiger, and the Doubt mode improvements in a synergy with Gladiator, in both cases Psycho man would be locked in to the respective mode, like in Mangog's synergy)
    Otherwise, Kabam can grant Psycho man these changes to his kit as well as as Pre fight abilities, one for each mode, and then the mode you choose from the Pre fights screen-you will be locked into for the duration of the fight, and won't be able to rotate between his modes.

    They also can put these changes to his kit, along with a locking in mechanic, which means for example:
    Whenever Psycho man dashes back and double blocks, lock Psycho man to his current mode, while the lock on is active, Psycho man's last light attack won't rotate modes, instead, it will grant Psycho man an Armor up buff, lasting 15 seconds.

    Also make him miss in his heavy attack like Tigra
    @Kabam Miike needs to see this
  • Options
    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,605 ★★★★★

    DarkestDestroyer,

    It's clearly a lot of work; even if sometimes it's hard to see where that work goes, when the buff is released (looking at you, Psycho-man and Nova...)

    Kabam have their own schedule, and unfortunately redesigns are low on their priority list now - probably something to do with (a) Developer time being a limited resource that could be spent on other areas of the game, and (b) buffs/reworks of older champs not being a good profit-making project, I'd guess...

    Although increased player happiness hopefully counts for something, right lads 😉

    If you (or Kabam) want to read some ideas, there are loads of buff suggestions in the Suggestions Thread which, sadly, mostly collect little to no feedback from the 'Community'; suggesting that they're not necessarily a huge priority for many of us, either.

    If you want to buck that trend, I've got a thread here with suggestions for pretty much all the classic champions. Be sure to Like, Disagree, comment, whatever...
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/328552/complete-buff-designs-for-classic-champions/p1

    U tryna say psycho man is bad whilst knowing @Darkraw346 uses forums? Bold man, bold. What did you say you want to wear to your funeral again 💀 lol
    😉

    Actually I think @Darkraw346 would agree - Psycho-man's buff did very little for him.

    I didn't say he was bad; but he's hard to play, in a way that his buff didn't really change.

    The successful buffs haven't necessarily given a huge damage boost, but have adjusted timings, added refreshes and so on, in a way that reduces the stress of playing them and makes rotations smoother. Shuri, Viv Vision and IMIW being really good examples (wonder why they're all tech? I should have put Red Skull in, too...).

    Psycho-man didn't get any easier to play, and didn't get any better at balancing Utility/Damage. So not a great buff.

    Psycho-man is clearly not too bad - solos in Necropolis are nothing to sneer at!
    Yes Psycho man needs a buff, mainly one that just adds damage to his other modes imo, wouldn't hurt if they'd also make his sp2 Hate furies last forever and add a pre fight that allows you to choose a mode and lock it (locking means you CANT rotate modes in the fight)

    If we are already here, these are my suggestions:
    For Fear mode:whenever Psycho man prevents an abillity to trigger during the opponent's speical attack, due to his concussions-inflict an indefinite power sting, max stacks 10. These power stings won't deal a burst of X dmg at the start of the opponent's speical attacks, instead, they will deal a burst of X energy damage EACH time an opponent's abillity fails during his speical attack, these power stings will then reapply.

    For Doubt mode:When an opponent's abillity fails to trigger while blocking, due to Psycho man's concussions-Psycho man gains a Pierce buff of X potency, max stacks 10. when Psycho man hits the opponent's block, inflicts instant Shock, dealing X energy dmg, damage scales with Pierce.

    Now, these two improvements to his kit can either be done with synergies (I'd put the Fear mode improvements as a synergy with White tiger, and the Doubt mode improvements in a synergy with Gladiator, in both cases Psycho man would be locked in to the respective mode, like in Mangog's synergy)
    Otherwise, Kabam can grant Psycho man these changes to his kit as well as as Pre fight abilities, one for each mode, and then the mode you choose from the Pre fights screen-you will be locked into for the duration of the fight, and won't be able to rotate between his modes.

    They also can put these changes to his kit, along with a locking in mechanic, which means for example:
    Whenever Psycho man dashes back and double blocks, lock Psycho man to his current mode, while the lock on is active, Psycho man's last light attack won't rotate modes, instead, it will grant Psycho man an Armor up buff, lasting 15 seconds.

    Also make him miss in his heavy attack like Tigra
    @Kabam Miike needs to see this
    Miike may or may not see it. Someone will probably see it.

    But in all the time I've been reading and writing rework suggestions (and I've done more on this subject than most people) I've never seen a moderator pass any judgment of any kind on a buff suggestion.

    A while back, Kabam Porthos (no longer with the team, I think) organised a semi-official Champion Improvements Suggestions Thread, which was theoretically a place for us to focus our efforts and which the Devs might glance at, if they ever wanted inspiration. Although I think a lot of his motivation might have been to reduce the number of new suggestion threads that were popping up!
    It ran for some years from 2018, before largely petering out in mid-2023, when it was apparent the buff program had largely stopped, too.

    My own thread here has 32 rework suggestions for classic champions, and I'm not expecting any moderator comments: the moderators don't have the power to make stuff like this happen, and they really don't want to up our expectations by saying "hey, there are some really cool suggestions here, I'll pass it on..."
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    Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 2,278 ★★★★★
    edited February 18

    I can’t even be bothered listing them, but can we at least revisit the OG champs who have been stagnant for years, whilst newer champs always get revisited and tuned up etc.

    Just my thoughts, for a start Thor is questioning if he’s even a God.

    I don't feel it is. I just think it's much less profitable. That is my personal opinion on the economy of buffing and why some champs get 2 or 3 while others get overlooked time and time again.

    They temporarily buffed all of the Avengers for a side quest a few years ago and if their buffs were just that most would be happy with it. But you can't sell champs people have from day 1. Only OG Hulk, Iron Man and arguably OG SPiderman (depending on who you ask) has been buffed "properly" since that. Maybe add Gamora too.
  • Options
    ButtehrsButtehrs Posts: 5,139 ★★★★★
    Bugmat78 said:

    I can’t even be bothered listing them, but can we at least revisit the OG champs who have been stagnant for years, whilst newer champs always get revisited and tuned up etc.

    Just my thoughts, for a start Thor is questioning if he’s even a God.

    I don't feel it is. I just think it's much less profitable. That is my personal opinion on the economy of buffing and why some champs get 2 or 3 while others get overlooked time and time again.

    They temporarily buffed all of the Avengers for a side quest a few years ago and if their buffs were just that most would be happy with it. But you can't sell champs people have from day 1. Only OG Hulk, Iron Man and arguably OG SPiderman (depending on who you ask) has been buffed "properly" since that. Maybe add Gamora too.
    Ahem, og iron man would like a word.
  • Options
    Viper198787Viper198787 Posts: 470 ★★★
    The thought is, when people download this game, they want to play their favorite Marvel characters and feel powerful doing so. So why aren’t iconic characters portrayed in the MCU powerful? OG Cap, Doc Strange, Black Widow, and Thor (ok but could use some juice) could all use some love. But then you have obscure champs who have much better kits and are more powerful. Now don’t get me wrong, adding obscure champs are good because you get to learn about new characters. But if someone is downloading this game to feel powerful playing Doctor Strange, they’ll be sorely disappointed.
  • Options
    ChiiccChiicc Posts: 179

    I can’t even be bothered listing them, but can we at least revisit the OG champs who have been stagnant for years, whilst newer champs always get revisited and tuned up etc.

    Just my thoughts, for a start Thor is questioning if he’s even a God.

    They literally do buff of champ one by one. Currently doing mister sinister. They do them one by one. I’d understand complaining if they never did anything but they have done a lot of good ogs buffes and continue to. Like iceman,nebula,hulk etc..
  • Options
    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,605 ★★★★★
    Chiicc said:

    I can’t even be bothered listing them, but can we at least revisit the OG champs who have been stagnant for years, whilst newer champs always get revisited and tuned up etc.

    Just my thoughts, for a start Thor is questioning if he’s even a God.

    They literally do buff of champ one by one. Currently doing mister sinister. They do them one by one. I’d understand complaining if they never did anything but they have done a lot of good ogs buffes and continue to. Like iceman,nebula,hulk etc..
    That's nice, but the thing is, for a couple of years in 21-22, they were buffing them two at a time, pretty much every month.

    Now it's something they sometimes fit in, if there's a bit of developer time left over because they don't need to rebalance the two new releases they're reviewing that month.

    We went around eight months between buffs at one point last year.

    It's an afterthought, rather than a priority.
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