Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
Especially the community. The devs can get ideas from what people discuss, but people who play as a job shouldn't have any say. That goes for any game.
Oof. No my guy. Just no.
Yes
Go ahead, what's your idea for a Carinas challenge?
That's the problem right there. You all think the people who made the game can't come up with anything. Streamer and Content creators always make a game worse when their ideas are implemented in a game.
Aaaaaaaaannnnnnnnndddddddd scene.....
Ladies and Gentlemen, thank you for coming to my production of "Twists and Turns: A story of how to get out of answering a question".
I don't need to answer [your] question.
Oooooooh. The sequel- "I don't have any original ideas so I'm going to attack people".
well Obiviously everyone of us is hesitant to rank up a champ who is in 7* pool.
A 6* r5 sig 200 Mojo, when ramped, has an attack value of 12,012. This is not ascended (because I don’t think Auntm.ai has ascension information).
A 7* r2 sig 20 Mojo, when ramped, has an attack value of 10,456. It isn’t until sig 80 that the 7* r2 passes the 6* in terms of attack value.
The 7*’s real advantage comes from the healthpool, having an additional 12k health at r2 as compared to the r5 6*. This is a lot, but is only really relevant if you’re planning on healing to full on every revive, which I think would be prohibitively expensive for most fights. I think I would do it for those fights which have unavoidable damage interactions, but skip it otherwise and just ride with 40% health since Mojo has some pretty decent regen on prompt completion.
Finally, while stat focus is obviously a huge benefit in most cases, the bulk of Mojo’s damage comes from his degeneration, which does not scale with any stat focus option. As such, I don’t know that stat focus is necessarily as big of a deal for him specifically as it is for other champs.
Anyway, this isn’t meant to necessarily convince anybody on one option being better than the other, it’s just a write up so you have all the information. Personally, I took my 6* Mojo to r5 about two days before he was announced to be coming to the game as a 7*, and I haven’t been lucky enough to pull him yet. I might be lying to myself to make myself feel better, but I think that since he’s good on both offense and defense, when I pull him I could stick the 7* on war defense and keep the 6* as an attacker.
Hope this helps with preparations!
The break even point is actually closer to sig 20, i.e. one natural dup.
One way to look at the value of a champ in long form content is to presume you will probably die at some point, and ask how much damage you can deliver before you do. That depends in part on your attack value, and in part on your max health. All other things being equal, if you have twice as much attack you're going to do twice as much damage before you die. And all other things being equal, if you have twice as much health you're also going to do twice as much damage before you die, because you will survive twice as long before you die. Note that this is true even if you do not heal to full: if you only use 40% revives, say, then if you have twice as much max health you will also revive with twice as much health as something with half your max health.
How do we combine these two? Short answer: multiply them together. The reason why this works is due to a bit of math simplification. How would we attempt to calculate the damage you can do before dying? Well, we would first try to figure out how long you would stay alive. We'd estimate that by taking your health and dividing by the average DPS you were sustaining. Healing can alter this somewhat, but we'll start with a first-order simplification and ignore healing for now. So the amount of time you would stay alive would be your health H divided by incoming dps D, or H/D. We would then multiply that by your outgoing dps in damage. That would be proportional to your attack rating, some k times A. So we would have your damage be kA x (H/D), which would be kAH/D. In this comparison k is a constant and D is a constant (we're talking about comparing two different attackers against the same defender), so this is just some big constant K times AH. If we are comparing this to some other rarity of the same champ, we'd be comparing KAH to KA'H', which means we are just comparing AH to A'H' and we don't need to actually calculate or care what K is. In other words, comparing AH for one rarity to A'H' for another rarity of the same champ tells us which one will deliver more damage before it dies, at least to a first order approximation. This doesn't cover things like scaling factors for damage significant effects, and it doesn't account for deaths due to high order damage effects which would kill you no matter how much health you have. But it is a decent rule of thumb.
So if we are comparing awakened sig 200 6* R5 Mojo to unawakened 7* R2 Mojo, we're comparing 12012 x 63718 vs 4875 x 77584. That's the fury-boosted attack of 6* Mojo vs the unboosted (because unawakened) 7* Mojo. We get 765,380,616 vs 378,222,000. The 6* is the runaway favorite here. But suppose we want to know how high Mojo's sig needs to be for the 7* to overtake the 6*. We can just use some simple arithmetic here and solve for 7* Mojo's attack value. 12012 x 63718 = A x 77584; 12012 x 63718 / 77584 = A; A = 9865. 7* R2 Mojo has base attack of 4875, so the amount of fury buff he needs to overtake 6* Mojo is 9865 - 4875 = 4990. An awakened sig 1 Mojo has a sig fury buff of 4875, which is not quite high enough but very close. At sig 20 (a natural dup) the fury buff goes up to 5588, which is more than enough (the break even point is at about sig 4).
How about Ascension? Ascension increases 6* Attack and health by 22% (the percentages are different for different rarities). An ascended 6* R5 Mojo would have a total AH rating of 12012 x 1.22 x 63718 x 1.22 = 1,139,192,509. To reach that level a 7* R2 Mojo would have to get to a total attack rating of 14683, which would require a net fury buff of 9808. At max sig the fury buff would be 9750, which is actually slightly short. 7* R2 max sig would be delivering 99.6% of the damage that an ascended 6* R5 max sig Mojo was delivering per revive. 99.6% is essentially a tie in an estimate like this, but on paper it is a thin sliver lower.
If we want to factor healing into this estimation, that would complicate the math quite a bit. The short answer is, the shorter the fights last, the less proportional impact healing has. The longer they last, the more healing tips the balance towards the higher health champion, because the higher health champion has a disproportionate benefit from healing. Healing might seem like it can be incorporated as just having more health, but what it actually does is reduce incoming damage. Consider if incoming damage was 1000 dps, the difference between 990 healing per second and 1010 healing per second is not 2% more health, it is actually the difference between eventually dying and immortality. To factor this in requires complex linear estimators or calculus. But it would definitely be strong enough to tip the balance between 6* R5 ascended and 7* R2 both at max sig as above, given how tiny the difference is.
TL;DR: if you want to compare two different rarities of the same champ to see how different attack rating and health values matter, the simple rule of thumb is to multiply attack and health of each and compare. Bigger number wins. This does not account for healing: healing tips the scales towards the champion with higher health. Exactly how much usually takes big time math to determine. This also does not account for non-scaling effects: things that don't depend on either your attack rating or how much health you have. To be clear, this is a rule of thumb estimation, not a precise calculation.
6* R5 max sig Mojo is about equal to a 7* R2 sig 20 Mojo. A 6* R5 max sig ascended Mojo is about equal to a 7* R2 max sig Mojo. The 6* R5 max sig ascended Mojo is, of course, vastly easier and cheaper to acquire at the present time.
These ccp challenges are fun and challenging wdym 🙂
Especially with the avengers and zemo challenges. I think it's pretty cool to see how well a group of champs that everyone thinks are garbage can shine like they have.
It's challenging to use them to their max potential in fights that can be difficult. It's rewarding to complete something like that. It's fun to use champs that are forgotten about and are a reason that many of us play the game in the first place.
I've completed both of Lagacy's challenges. I don't have the resources or the skill right now to do Mike's, and definitely not Fintech's. That's OK. Down the road I might have a go at them. For now I've really enjoyed watching others accomplish what I cannot- something that I've done a lot over the years that I've played this game. It gives me something to strive for and a way to connect to the community. I consider that a win. Though to be honest I've been fairly disgusted with the manner in which many in the community have behaved themselves while voicing their disagreement with this. Thought for sure we'd be better than that.
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
But what is fun and challenging. I've asked people this dozens of times and no answer has really been given. I mean people want to use Hulk for the Avengers challenge. Is it really that different than my "suggestion"?
What's fun and challenging to you, isn't necessarily fun and challenging to someone else and that's the real issue that Kabam faces every time they try and release content.
If it's too "difficult" then they released it because they nerfed revive farming and must be low on sales. If it's too easy then it's because they've run out of ideas and the game must be coming to an end soon.
So what is fun and challenging to you?
Necropolis? I don't even know what type of question that is the answer is obvious. Fun node interactions but still tough. Fights that actually make me want to go back in not uninstall the game.
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
But what is fun and challenging. I've asked people this dozens of times and no answer has really been given. I mean people want to use Hulk for the Avengers challenge. Is it really that different than my "suggestion"?
What's fun and challenging to you, isn't necessarily fun and challenging to someone else and that's the real issue that Kabam faces every time they try and release content.
If it's too "difficult" then they released it because they nerfed revive farming and must be low on sales. If it's too easy then it's because they've run out of ideas and the game must be coming to an end soon.
So what is fun and challenging to you?
Necropolis? I don't even know what type of question that is the answer is obvious. Fun node interactions but still tough. Fights that actually make me want to go back in not uninstall the game.
How many people want to do Necropolis fights for fun?
A solo is a solo isn't it though? The manner in which it is solo'd shouldn't matter. Use cheese, milk whatever ...a solo is a solo so why did it matter?
Let me scale back on the "no thought" thing. I think that's being taken too literally 😂. Obviously there was thought put into it ... what I mean is that it isn't creative at all. To me.
The Avengers thing .. I mean it was cool ... there was something there but leaving Hulk off to stop a solo doesn't make any sense. You missed an opportunity for a lot of "stongest Avenger" community talk etc. It's just not creative to me. But again, that's just my puny opinion mate lol
I appreciate the responses nonetheless Karate Mike. You've always been one of the few creators who I thought was just a genuine dude loving the game. But still ... to ME ... none of those challenges were creative or fun. And the community agrees.
Not every opinion or response especially in disagreement has to be villain vs hero. We're adults (I'm assuming) ... it's just conversation in the end ... at least to me.
Can I ask how using Hulk to stun lock everyone would be creative?
I never said it would be. I only mentioned Hulk because of his exclusion. Leaving him off in and of itself was the lack of it. It is what it is though mate. We win some, we lose some .. we tie sometimes even. Such is life and such is the box of chocolates.
At the end of the day ... at least there's something for people to engage in around the game despite the conversation it creates.
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
These ccp challenges are fun and challenging wdym 🙂
90% of the playerbase will disagree with you and there's a thread with over 18 pages explaining why we don't find it fun 🙂
That thread doesn't represent 90% of players. I thought you'd be better than that.
You realize there are ccs also saying they weren't fun right? Also, look at the comment sections on Mike's videos... I swear it's like you purposely want to go against what most people think just to side with Kabam no matter what, every single time 🤣
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
These ccp challenges are fun and challenging wdym 🙂
90% of the playerbase will disagree with you and there's a thread with over 18 pages explaining why we don't find it fun 🙂
That thread doesn't represent 90% of players. I thought you'd be better than that.
Cant deny that the thread took the forums by storm with how many people commented. I saw people posting on it that never post on forums. You know its serious when people make accounts just to comment on the Carinas or return to their ancient forum accounts
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
But what is fun and challenging. I've asked people this dozens of times and no answer has really been given. I mean people want to use Hulk for the Avengers challenge. Is it really that different than my "suggestion"?
What's fun and challenging to you, isn't necessarily fun and challenging to someone else and that's the real issue that Kabam faces every time they try and release content.
If it's too "difficult" then they released it because they nerfed revive farming and must be low on sales. If it's too easy then it's because they've run out of ideas and the game must be coming to an end soon.
So what is fun and challenging to you?
Necropolis? I don't even know what type of question that is the answer is obvious. Fun node interactions but still tough. Fights that actually make me want to go back in not uninstall the game.
How many people want to do Necropolis fights for fun?
You didn't read any of the feedback on the forums or any social platform or YouTube? Lol I seriously don't get why you're trying to argue this when Mike himself already said the only people who would find this fun were the folks who loved grinding pre nerfed Act 6. Why do you think Act 6 has been nerfed so many times? Cause it's totally fun? Lmao
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
These ccp challenges are fun and challenging wdym 🙂
90% of the playerbase will disagree with you and there's a thread with over 18 pages explaining why we don't find it fun 🙂
That thread doesn't represent 90% of players. I thought you'd be better than that.
You realize there are ccs also saying they weren't fun right? Also, look at the comment sections on Mike's videos... I swear it's like you purposely want to go against what most people think just to side with Kabam no matter what, every single time 🤣
Ya think?
He just posts diatribes and derails conversations. No one's reading all that.
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
These ccp challenges are fun and challenging wdym 🙂
90% of the playerbase will disagree with you and there's a thread with over 18 pages explaining why we don't find it fun 🙂
That thread doesn't represent 90% of players. I thought you'd be better than that.
In case I wasn't clear enough, I never argued the fact that some people find it fun cause they do, I just said most people don't, something which a lot of people and other ccs (even Mike himself) have already pointed out. Hell, Mike himself said that the challenges were targeted towards a SMALL demographic of players who have been craving this type of content, the same players who loved pre nerfed Act 6 (which almost nobody enjoyed, it's common knowledge at this point hence the amount of nerfs it has gone through since it's release). Mike himself has acknowledged the vast majority isn't into this type of content so I don't get what point you're even trying to make here cause you're just flat out wrong based on everything that's already been said by the person who designed the challenges.
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
These ccp challenges are fun and challenging wdym 🙂
90% of the playerbase will disagree with you and there's a thread with over 18 pages explaining why we don't find it fun 🙂
That thread doesn't represent 90% of players. I thought you'd be better than that.
You realize there are ccs also saying they weren't fun right? Also, look at the comment sections on Mike's videos... I swear it's like you purposely want to go against what most people think just to side with Kabam no matter what, every single time 🤣
You're right. I sincerely apologize. When you said there's a thread with 18 pages of complaints I did realize you also meant look at comments on videos. I truly don't know how I made that mistake. Looking back, you very clear. I know now going forward that when you say thread, you mean YouTube comments as well.
Anyway, I think its not too late to amend the challenges and restore faith in the community. That level of difficulty wasnt really communicated.
I love how you cropped out the part of my text where I clearly stated the top 500? Yes, i'm aware, I saw that they said ultra hard. But since when does Ultra Hard correlate to aimed at the top 0.1%?
The last time we seen challenges on this level was the Carina Challenges volume 1 where we had to use 4 stars in Labyrinth.
Anyway, I think its not too late to amend the challenges and restore faith in the community. That level of difficulty wasnt really communicated.
I love how you cropped out the part of my text where I clearly stated the top 500? Yes, i'm aware, I saw that they said ultra hard. But since when does Ultra Hard correlate to aimed at the top 0.1%?
The last time we seen challenges on this level was the Carina Challenges volume 1 where we had to use 4 stars in Labyrinth.
Next time, show the full context buddy
You said it "wasn't really communicated". It was clearly communicated.
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
But what is fun and challenging. I've asked people this dozens of times and no answer has really been given. I mean people want to use Hulk for the Avengers challenge. Is it really that different than my "suggestion"?
What's fun and challenging to you, isn't necessarily fun and challenging to someone else and that's the real issue that Kabam faces every time they try and release content.
If it's too "difficult" then they released it because they nerfed revive farming and must be low on sales. If it's too easy then it's because they've run out of ideas and the game must be coming to an end soon.
So what is fun and challenging to you?
Necropolis? I don't even know what type of question that is the answer is obvious. Fun node interactions but still tough. Fights that actually make me want to go back in not uninstall the game.
Necropolis was a very fun piece of content, but it was not challenging. Almost every fight could be facerolled by Aegon. No thoughts, just crits. My favorite fights in it were the ones where the bulk of your damage was done through alternative means, like Elsa. Having to parry her specials was a great, skill-focused mechanic. Good stuff.
But otherwise it was just kind of… inevitable? Like, I didn’t need to do anything clever or try any off the wall playstyles or champions or mastery setups. It was just unga bunga Valiant now please. But I remember when fighting Abyss Korg (also with Aegon), I had to learn spacing techniques and heavy baiting so that I could get his rock stacks off of him without eating thorns damage. I had to grow as a player to do the content because it would’ve been too punishing to do the fight with the skills I had at the time.
And I think this illustrates the difference. Even several years later, I remember that particularly challenging Abyss fight. Whereas I finished my Necropolis exploration only a little over a month ago and I’ve forgotten most of the fights already. Necropolis was absolutely fun, I don’t want to knock it, but it didn’t really have a lot of memorable challenges.
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
But what is fun and challenging. I've asked people this dozens of times and no answer has really been given. I mean people want to use Hulk for the Avengers challenge. Is it really that different than my "suggestion"?
What's fun and challenging to you, isn't necessarily fun and challenging to someone else and that's the real issue that Kabam faces every time they try and release content.
If it's too "difficult" then they released it because they nerfed revive farming and must be low on sales. If it's too easy then it's because they've run out of ideas and the game must be coming to an end soon.
So what is fun and challenging to you?
Necropolis? I don't even know what type of question that is the answer is obvious. Fun node interactions but still tough. Fights that actually make me want to go back in not uninstall the game.
Necropolis was a very fun piece of content, but it was not challenging. Almost every fight could be facerolled by Aegon. No thoughts, just crits. My favorite fights in it were the ones where the bulk of your damage was done through alternative means, like Elsa. Having to parry her specials was a great, skill-focused mechanic. Good stuff.
But otherwise it was just kind of… inevitable? Like, I didn’t need to do anything clever or try any off the wall playstyles or champions or mastery setups. It was just unga bunga Valiant now please. But I remember when fighting Abyss Korg (also with Aegon), I had to learn spacing techniques and heavy baiting so that I could get his rock stacks off of him without eating thorns damage. I had to grow as a player to do the content because it would’ve been too punishing to do the fight with the skills I had at the time.
And I think this illustrates the difference. Even several years later, I remember that particularly challenging Abyss fight. Whereas I finished my Necropolis exploration only a little over a month ago and I’ve forgotten most of the fights already. Necropolis was absolutely fun, I don’t want to knock it, but it didn’t really have a lot of memorable challenges.
We got to 11M deaths. Maybe it was easy for you but based on deaths alone it's pretty clear that it was challenging for the vast majority, with or without Ægon (personally I haven't used Ægon and I refuse to do so cause I find it extremely boring due to his playstyle).
Like I said, challenging and fun are both subjective, the only thing we know for sure is most people don't want bs nodes in the game. Now, I'm okay with us getting bs content every once in a while but if the rest of EOP this year is going to be like the stuff we've been getting lately (Carina's Challenges and WoW Abs Man I think I'm just going to quit. It may be fun for you, whether it's because you have the skills or enjoy the pain, but for most of us that's not the case and all the ccs that made the challenges are fully aware of this. Mike himself acknowledged the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't like this type of content with super bs nodes or absurd requirements so that's not even up for debate.
Anyway, I think its not too late to amend the challenges and restore faith in the community. That level of difficulty wasnt really communicated.
I love how you cropped out the part of my text where I clearly stated the top 500? Yes, i'm aware, I saw that they said ultra hard. But since when does Ultra Hard correlate to aimed at the top 0.1%?
The last time we seen challenges on this level was the Carina Challenges volume 1 where we had to use 4 stars in Labyrinth.
Next time, show the full context buddy
I cropped it to make it more concise & easier to read, something I wish more people would do here - but I don't mind leaving it in full if you'd prefer.
The LoL Star-Lord in Carina's 1 was a revive fest, straight up. It wasn't necessarily something I'd classify as "hard." There was just nothing you could do to avoid spending dozens of revives in there no matter how well you played.
All of these are skill based - and while they could absolutely cost you just as many revives depending on play, they've also all been proven they could potentially be done in under 10.
They are very different types of challenges. These are ultra hard - CV1 was, bluntly, a big mistake.
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
But what is fun and challenging. I've asked people this dozens of times and no answer has really been given. I mean people want to use Hulk for the Avengers challenge. Is it really that different than my "suggestion"?
What's fun and challenging to you, isn't necessarily fun and challenging to someone else and that's the real issue that Kabam faces every time they try and release content.
If it's too "difficult" then they released it because they nerfed revive farming and must be low on sales. If it's too easy then it's because they've run out of ideas and the game must be coming to an end soon.
So what is fun and challenging to you?
Necropolis? I don't even know what type of question that is the answer is obvious. Fun node interactions but still tough. Fights that actually make me want to go back in not uninstall the game.
Necropolis was a very fun piece of content, but it was not challenging. Almost every fight could be facerolled by Aegon. No thoughts, just crits. My favorite fights in it were the ones where the bulk of your damage was done through alternative means, like Elsa. Having to parry her specials was a great, skill-focused mechanic. Good stuff.
But otherwise it was just kind of… inevitable? Like, I didn’t need to do anything clever or try any off the wall playstyles or champions or mastery setups. It was just unga bunga Valiant now please. But I remember when fighting Abyss Korg (also with Aegon), I had to learn spacing techniques and heavy baiting so that I could get his rock stacks off of him without eating thorns damage. I had to grow as a player to do the content because it would’ve been too punishing to do the fight with the skills I had at the time.
And I think this illustrates the difference. Even several years later, I remember that particularly challenging Abyss fight. Whereas I finished my Necropolis exploration only a little over a month ago and I’ve forgotten most of the fights already. Necropolis was absolutely fun, I don’t want to knock it, but it didn’t really have a lot of memorable challenges.
We got to 11M deaths. Maybe it was easy for you but based on deaths alone it's pretty clear that it was challenging for the vast majority, with or without Ægon (personally I haven't used Ægon and I refuse to do so cause I find it extremely boring due to his playstyle).
Like I said, challenging and fun are both subjective, the only thing we know for sure is most people don't want bs nodes in the game. Now, I'm okay with us getting bs content every once in a while but if the rest of EOP this year is going to be like the stuff we've been getting lately (Carina's Challenges and WoW Abs Man I think I'm just going to quit. It may be fun for you, whether it's because you have the skills or enjoy the pain, but for most of us that's not the case and all the ccs that made the challenges are fully aware of this. Mike himself acknowledged the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't like this type of content with super bs nodes or absurd requirements so that's not even up for debate.
I’ve said it in a bunch of other places too, but I’m not trying to talk people into having fun in content they don’t enjoy. I wholly accept that most of the playerbase doesn’t love this stuff. I’m just explaining why I, and I imagine the other small percentage of players who like this content, do like it.
But I agree, WoW should not be consistently tuned to the level of this Abs Man, at least in part because of how deep the Deathless KG piece is into the milestones. That is a prize that, as I understand it, is meant to be attainable to a larger swath of the playerbase than the current round of Carina’s Challenges are, and so it is not ideal for them to be similar in difficulty. I think it’s substantially harder to get than any of the Guilly pieces were, and that’s not great. I hope that the next bosses come in at a lower difficulty than this one. I wouldn’t hate it if each season had one boss as tough as this Abs Man, but that one absolutely shouldn’t be the first one up. And I do think Kabam realizes Abs Man is overtuned, they said as much when they said they were going to tune his regen before he comes back for the WoW finale.
I also agree that I don’t want all content going forward to be tuned to the level of these Carina’s Challenges. That would be bad for the health of the game. But Kabam knows that. It’s why story content is so easy and why Necropolis landed where it did. I was wrong to say Necropolis wasn’t a challenge because you’re right, it is subjective. And that was challenge content for the majority of the playerbase. But for the players like me who are looking for something harder than that, these Challenges are perfect. And it makes me sad how aggressively the playerbase has backlashed on them, because they’re my favorite part of this game and come around so infrequently. I think that’s why I’m so vocal on the forums about this. Not because I want to convince people that they should love it, but because I just don’t want people to stop Kabam from making this every once in a while.
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
But what is fun and challenging. I've asked people this dozens of times and no answer has really been given. I mean people want to use Hulk for the Avengers challenge. Is it really that different than my "suggestion"?
What's fun and challenging to you, isn't necessarily fun and challenging to someone else and that's the real issue that Kabam faces every time they try and release content.
If it's too "difficult" then they released it because they nerfed revive farming and must be low on sales. If it's too easy then it's because they've run out of ideas and the game must be coming to an end soon.
So what is fun and challenging to you?
Necropolis? I don't even know what type of question that is the answer is obvious. Fun node interactions but still tough. Fights that actually make me want to go back in not uninstall the game.
Necropolis was a very fun piece of content, but it was not challenging. Almost every fight could be facerolled by Aegon. No thoughts, just crits. My favorite fights in it were the ones where the bulk of your damage was done through alternative means, like Elsa. Having to parry her specials was a great, skill-focused mechanic. Good stuff.
But otherwise it was just kind of… inevitable? Like, I didn’t need to do anything clever or try any off the wall playstyles or champions or mastery setups. It was just unga bunga Valiant now please. But I remember when fighting Abyss Korg (also with Aegon), I had to learn spacing techniques and heavy baiting so that I could get his rock stacks off of him without eating thorns damage. I had to grow as a player to do the content because it would’ve been too punishing to do the fight with the skills I had at the time.
And I think this illustrates the difference. Even several years later, I remember that particularly challenging Abyss fight. Whereas I finished my Necropolis exploration only a little over a month ago and I’ve forgotten most of the fights already. Necropolis was absolutely fun, I don’t want to knock it, but it didn’t really have a lot of memorable challenges.
We got to 11M deaths. Maybe it was easy for you but based on deaths alone it's pretty clear that it was challenging for the vast majority, with or without Ægon (personally I haven't used Ægon and I refuse to do so cause I find it extremely boring due to his playstyle).
Like I said, challenging and fun are both subjective, the only thing we know for sure is most people don't want bs nodes in the game. Now, I'm okay with us getting bs content every once in a while but if the rest of EOP this year is going to be like the stuff we've been getting lately (Carina's Challenges and WoW Abs Man I think I'm just going to quit. It may be fun for you, whether it's because you have the skills or enjoy the pain, but for most of us that's not the case and all the ccs that made the challenges are fully aware of this. Mike himself acknowledged the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't like this type of content with super bs nodes or absurd requirements so that's not even up for debate.
I’ve said it in a bunch of other places too, but I’m not trying to talk people into having fun in content they don’t enjoy. I wholly accept that most of the playerbase doesn’t love this stuff. I’m just explaining why I, and I imagine the other small percentage of players who like this content, do like it.
But I agree, WoW should not be consistently tuned to the level of this Abs Man, at least in part because of how deep the Deathless KG piece is into the milestones. That is a prize that, as I understand it, is meant to be attainable to a larger swath of the playerbase than the current round of Carina’s Challenges are, and so it is not ideal for them to be similar in difficulty. I think it’s substantially harder to get than any of the Guilly pieces were, and that’s not great. I hope that the next bosses come in at a lower difficulty than this one. I wouldn’t hate it if each season had one boss as tough as this Abs Man, but that one absolutely shouldn’t be the first one up. And I do think Kabam realizes Abs Man is overtuned, they said as much when they said they were going to tune his regen before he comes back for the WoW finale.
I also agree that I don’t want all content going forward to be tuned to the level of these Carina’s Challenges. That would be bad for the health of the game. But Kabam knows that. It’s why story content is so easy and why Necropolis landed where it did. I was wrong to say Necropolis wasn’t a challenge because you’re right, it is subjective. And that was challenge content for the majority of the playerbase. But for the players like me who are looking for something harder than that, these Challenges are perfect. And it makes me sad how aggressively the playerbase has backlashed on them, because they’re my favorite part of this game and come around so infrequently. I think that’s why I’m so vocal on the forums about this. Not because I want to convince people that they should love it, but because I just don’t want people to stop Kabam from making this every once in a while.
Fair enough. I mean, personally for me I can tolerate it to a certain extent and I'm sure I will do all the challenges eventually but it is the type content I hate the most.
We'll see how they handle that situation I suppose, I really don't see how they could address that regen without nerfing him completely but his rebalance is already done so I don't know, maybe some node with petrify to help us out I don't know. I'm glad we agree on this though.
Fair enough, I understand your point of view. I definitely don't mind this type of content every once in a while, in fact the only reason I'm even worried is because of that Abs Man fight. I think it was just terrible timing in general and they need to try to space it out better next time so we don't get oversaturated with bs content on the same month. I am almost 100% sure that the reason there was this much backlash is because Kabam released these challenges immediately after the WoW backlash. Now, I'm not saying nobody would've complained cause a lot of people probably still would've, but I'm sure a lot of people like me would've also been like "okay, we haven't had a big challenge in a bit, if I want one, the content is right there"
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
But what is fun and challenging. I've asked people this dozens of times and no answer has really been given. I mean people want to use Hulk for the Avengers challenge. Is it really that different than my "suggestion"?
What's fun and challenging to you, isn't necessarily fun and challenging to someone else and that's the real issue that Kabam faces every time they try and release content.
If it's too "difficult" then they released it because they nerfed revive farming and must be low on sales. If it's too easy then it's because they've run out of ideas and the game must be coming to an end soon.
So what is fun and challenging to you?
Necropolis? I don't even know what type of question that is the answer is obvious. Fun node interactions but still tough. Fights that actually make me want to go back in not uninstall the game.
Necropolis was a very fun piece of content, but it was not challenging. Almost every fight could be facerolled by Aegon. No thoughts, just crits. My favorite fights in it were the ones where the bulk of your damage was done through alternative means, like Elsa. Having to parry her specials was a great, skill-focused mechanic. Good stuff.
But otherwise it was just kind of… inevitable? Like, I didn’t need to do anything clever or try any off the wall playstyles or champions or mastery setups. It was just unga bunga Valiant now please. But I remember when fighting Abyss Korg (also with Aegon), I had to learn spacing techniques and heavy baiting so that I could get his rock stacks off of him without eating thorns damage. I had to grow as a player to do the content because it would’ve been too punishing to do the fight with the skills I had at the time.
And I think this illustrates the difference. Even several years later, I remember that particularly challenging Abyss fight. Whereas I finished my Necropolis exploration only a little over a month ago and I’ve forgotten most of the fights already. Necropolis was absolutely fun, I don’t want to knock it, but it didn’t really have a lot of memorable challenges.
We got to 11M deaths. Maybe it was easy for you but based on deaths alone it's pretty clear that it was challenging for the vast majority, with or without Ægon (personally I haven't used Ægon and I refuse to do so cause I find it extremely boring due to his playstyle).
Like I said, challenging and fun are both subjective, the only thing we know for sure is most people don't want bs nodes in the game. Now, I'm okay with us getting bs content every once in a while but if the rest of EOP this year is going to be like the stuff we've been getting lately (Carina's Challenges and WoW Abs Man I think I'm just going to quit. It may be fun for you, whether it's because you have the skills or enjoy the pain, but for most of us that's not the case and all the ccs that made the challenges are fully aware of this. Mike himself acknowledged the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't like this type of content with super bs nodes or absurd requirements so that's not even up for debate.
I’ve said it in a bunch of other places too, but I’m not trying to talk people into having fun in content they don’t enjoy. I wholly accept that most of the playerbase doesn’t love this stuff. I’m just explaining why I, and I imagine the other small percentage of players who like this content, do like it.
But I agree, WoW should not be consistently tuned to the level of this Abs Man, at least in part because of how deep the Deathless KG piece is into the milestones. That is a prize that, as I understand it, is meant to be attainable to a larger swath of the playerbase than the current round of Carina’s Challenges are, and so it is not ideal for them to be similar in difficulty. I think it’s substantially harder to get than any of the Guilly pieces were, and that’s not great. I hope that the next bosses come in at a lower difficulty than this one. I wouldn’t hate it if each season had one boss as tough as this Abs Man, but that one absolutely shouldn’t be the first one up. And I do think Kabam realizes Abs Man is overtuned, they said as much when they said they were going to tune his regen before he comes back for the WoW finale.
I also agree that I don’t want all content going forward to be tuned to the level of these Carina’s Challenges. That would be bad for the health of the game. But Kabam knows that. It’s why story content is so easy and why Necropolis landed where it did. I was wrong to say Necropolis wasn’t a challenge because you’re right, it is subjective. And that was challenge content for the majority of the playerbase. But for the players like me who are looking for something harder than that, these Challenges are perfect. And it makes me sad how aggressively the playerbase has backlashed on them, because they’re my favorite part of this game and come around so infrequently. I think that’s why I’m so vocal on the forums about this. Not because I want to convince people that they should love it, but because I just don’t want people to stop Kabam from making this every once in a while.
Fair enough. I mean, personally for me I can tolerate it to a certain extent and I'm sure I will do all the challenges eventually but it is the type content I hate the most.
We'll see how they handle that situation I suppose, I really don't see how they could address that regen without nerfing him completely but his rebalance is already done so I don't know, maybe some node with petrify to help us out I don't know. I'm glad we agree on this though.
Fair enough, I understand your point of view. I definitely don't mind this type of content every once in a while, in fact the only reason I'm even worried is because of that Abs Man fight. I think it was just terrible timing in general and they need to try to space it out better next time so we don't get oversaturated with bs content on the same month. I am almost 100% sure that the reason there was this much backlash is because Kabam released these challenges immediately after the WoW backlash. Now, I'm not saying nobody would've complained cause a lot of people probably still would've, but I'm sure a lot of people like me would've also been like "okay, we haven't had a big challenge in a bit, if I want one, the content is right there"
Yeah, I think the thought process was “WoW is temporary, the Carina’s Challenges are permanent, so these won’t clash” which, while true from a purely rational perspective, just isn’t how this community approaches the game. If these had dropped back in October, which was the original intent, it probably would’ve gone over better. Although who knows what that would’ve done to the Necro release the following month.
I feel like this is the first reasonable conversation I’ve been able to have on this topic since the challenges dropped, so thanks for that. Hopefully everybody gets the anger out of their systems soon and we can get back to the forums working like this a little more.
One thing thats worth mentioning is that when the EOP and Gauntlet originally launched, even though it was only r3 that was accessible at the time, the revive farm and energy farm was still out, so that reasoning cant really be applied (Karate Mike tried using that in a lot of his comments responding to feedback).
I'd like to point out that this is completely incorrect. Revive farming as we know it started in fall of 2021, when kabam made a bunch of updates to earlier acts, one of which was increasing the revive spawn rate. (Technically there was a short period of time at the very beginning of mcoc when ROL fights dropped revives, but that had been gone for many many years) Both the Grandmasters Gauntlet and the original Summer of Pain happened the summer before, meaning everyone cleared them without access to those means of farming. In fact, revive farming is literally more than twice as lucrative now, with the addition of the apothecary and 40% revives in 22 hour solo events. It is true though that EOP Acceptance specifically dropped when revive farming was at its peak
Content creators shouldn't have a say in anything.
But the community should? Carinas challenge #69- Defeat Act 3 Thanos will only Rank 3 7*'s. Rewards- Generic 7* Rank 6 gem.
I don't think anyone is actually asking for something as ridiculous as that, we just want fun challenging content 🙂
But what is fun and challenging. I've asked people this dozens of times and no answer has really been given. I mean people want to use Hulk for the Avengers challenge. Is it really that different than my "suggestion"?
What's fun and challenging to you, isn't necessarily fun and challenging to someone else and that's the real issue that Kabam faces every time they try and release content.
If it's too "difficult" then they released it because they nerfed revive farming and must be low on sales. If it's too easy then it's because they've run out of ideas and the game must be coming to an end soon.
So what is fun and challenging to you?
Necropolis? I don't even know what type of question that is the answer is obvious. Fun node interactions but still tough. Fights that actually make me want to go back in not uninstall the game.
Necropolis was a very fun piece of content, but it was not challenging. Almost every fight could be facerolled by Aegon. No thoughts, just crits. My favorite fights in it were the ones where the bulk of your damage was done through alternative means, like Elsa. Having to parry her specials was a great, skill-focused mechanic. Good stuff.
But otherwise it was just kind of… inevitable? Like, I didn’t need to do anything clever or try any off the wall playstyles or champions or mastery setups. It was just unga bunga Valiant now please. But I remember when fighting Abyss Korg (also with Aegon), I had to learn spacing techniques and heavy baiting so that I could get his rock stacks off of him without eating thorns damage. I had to grow as a player to do the content because it would’ve been too punishing to do the fight with the skills I had at the time.
And I think this illustrates the difference. Even several years later, I remember that particularly challenging Abyss fight. Whereas I finished my Necropolis exploration only a little over a month ago and I’ve forgotten most of the fights already. Necropolis was absolutely fun, I don’t want to knock it, but it didn’t really have a lot of memorable challenges.
We got to 11M deaths. Maybe it was easy for you but based on deaths alone it's pretty clear that it was challenging for the vast majority, with or without Ægon (personally I haven't used Ægon and I refuse to do so cause I find it extremely boring due to his playstyle).
Like I said, challenging and fun are both subjective, the only thing we know for sure is most people don't want bs nodes in the game. Now, I'm okay with us getting bs content every once in a while but if the rest of EOP this year is going to be like the stuff we've been getting lately (Carina's Challenges and WoW Abs Man I think I'm just going to quit. It may be fun for you, whether it's because you have the skills or enjoy the pain, but for most of us that's not the case and all the ccs that made the challenges are fully aware of this. Mike himself acknowledged the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't like this type of content with super bs nodes or absurd requirements so that's not even up for debate.
I’ve said it in a bunch of other places too, but I’m not trying to talk people into having fun in content they don’t enjoy. I wholly accept that most of the playerbase doesn’t love this stuff. I’m just explaining why I, and I imagine the other small percentage of players who like this content, do like it.
But I agree, WoW should not be consistently tuned to the level of this Abs Man, at least in part because of how deep the Deathless KG piece is into the milestones. That is a prize that, as I understand it, is meant to be attainable to a larger swath of the playerbase than the current round of Carina’s Challenges are, and so it is not ideal for them to be similar in difficulty. I think it’s substantially harder to get than any of the Guilly pieces were, and that’s not great. I hope that the next bosses come in at a lower difficulty than this one. I wouldn’t hate it if each season had one boss as tough as this Abs Man, but that one absolutely shouldn’t be the first one up. And I do think Kabam realizes Abs Man is overtuned, they said as much when they said they were going to tune his regen before he comes back for the WoW finale.
I also agree that I don’t want all content going forward to be tuned to the level of these Carina’s Challenges. That would be bad for the health of the game. But Kabam knows that. It’s why story content is so easy and why Necropolis landed where it did. I was wrong to say Necropolis wasn’t a challenge because you’re right, it is subjective. And that was challenge content for the majority of the playerbase. But for the players like me who are looking for something harder than that, these Challenges are perfect. And it makes me sad how aggressively the playerbase has backlashed on them, because they’re my favorite part of this game and come around so infrequently. I think that’s why I’m so vocal on the forums about this. Not because I want to convince people that they should love it, but because I just don’t want people to stop Kabam from making this every once in a while.
Fair enough. I mean, personally for me I can tolerate it to a certain extent and I'm sure I will do all the challenges eventually but it is the type content I hate the most.
We'll see how they handle that situation I suppose, I really don't see how they could address that regen without nerfing him completely but his rebalance is already done so I don't know, maybe some node with petrify to help us out I don't know. I'm glad we agree on this though.
Fair enough, I understand your point of view. I definitely don't mind this type of content every once in a while, in fact the only reason I'm even worried is because of that Abs Man fight. I think it was just terrible timing in general and they need to try to space it out better next time so we don't get oversaturated with bs content on the same month. I am almost 100% sure that the reason there was this much backlash is because Kabam released these challenges immediately after the WoW backlash. Now, I'm not saying nobody would've complained cause a lot of people probably still would've, but I'm sure a lot of people like me would've also been like "okay, we haven't had a big challenge in a bit, if I want one, the content is right there"
Yeah, I think the thought process was “WoW is temporary, the Carina’s Challenges are permanent, so these won’t clash” which, while true from a purely rational perspective, just isn’t how this community approaches the game. If these had dropped back in October, which was the original intent, it probably would’ve gone over better. Although who knows what that would’ve done to the Necro release the following month.
I feel like this is the first reasonable conversation I’ve been able to have on this topic since the challenges dropped, so thanks for that. Hopefully everybody gets the anger out of their systems soon and we can get back to the forums working like this a little more.
That probably was their thought process, terrible idea though hopefully they learned something from this and next time they'll spread it out properly.
I don't think it would've clashed that much with Necropolis cause when you finish a Necropolis run it doesn't leave a bitter taste in your mouth no matter how bad you are because the fights are just extremely fun in general + revive farming was still a thing. If these had been released in October I think the backlash would've been at the very least cut in half.
Yeah I hear ya, same here although I will admit, I did say some unsavory things to certain individuals who weren't looking for civilized discussions hence the bars on my profile picture lol but yeah, it's nice being able to disagree with someone on this topic without any animosity. Wish everyone was willing to discuss things the same way.
The challenges aren't even difficult or skill based, numerous fights paired with the champs you have to pick just dont work so you gotta brute force it. Lagacys are actually fun, mike's are doable but not a fan of having to rank up avengers. It's Fintechs that are just dumb, so many fights that aren't meant to be taken with Mojo that Warlock for example.
The challenges aren't even difficult or skill based, numerous fights paired with the champs you have to pick just dont work so you gotta brute force it. Lagacys are actually fun, mike's are doable but not a fan of having to rank up avengers. It's Fintechs that are just dumb, so many fights that aren't meant to be taken with Mojo that Warlock for example.
Have you considered that the goal of that fight is to not complete Mojo’s prompts? And that the challenge of that particular matchup is that it goes against your instincts as a player?
Comments
One way to look at the value of a champ in long form content is to presume you will probably die at some point, and ask how much damage you can deliver before you do. That depends in part on your attack value, and in part on your max health. All other things being equal, if you have twice as much attack you're going to do twice as much damage before you die. And all other things being equal, if you have twice as much health you're also going to do twice as much damage before you die, because you will survive twice as long before you die. Note that this is true even if you do not heal to full: if you only use 40% revives, say, then if you have twice as much max health you will also revive with twice as much health as something with half your max health.
How do we combine these two? Short answer: multiply them together. The reason why this works is due to a bit of math simplification. How would we attempt to calculate the damage you can do before dying? Well, we would first try to figure out how long you would stay alive. We'd estimate that by taking your health and dividing by the average DPS you were sustaining. Healing can alter this somewhat, but we'll start with a first-order simplification and ignore healing for now. So the amount of time you would stay alive would be your health H divided by incoming dps D, or H/D. We would then multiply that by your outgoing dps in damage. That would be proportional to your attack rating, some k times A. So we would have your damage be kA x (H/D), which would be kAH/D. In this comparison k is a constant and D is a constant (we're talking about comparing two different attackers against the same defender), so this is just some big constant K times AH. If we are comparing this to some other rarity of the same champ, we'd be comparing KAH to KA'H', which means we are just comparing AH to A'H' and we don't need to actually calculate or care what K is. In other words, comparing AH for one rarity to A'H' for another rarity of the same champ tells us which one will deliver more damage before it dies, at least to a first order approximation. This doesn't cover things like scaling factors for damage significant effects, and it doesn't account for deaths due to high order damage effects which would kill you no matter how much health you have. But it is a decent rule of thumb.
So if we are comparing awakened sig 200 6* R5 Mojo to unawakened 7* R2 Mojo, we're comparing 12012 x 63718 vs 4875 x 77584. That's the fury-boosted attack of 6* Mojo vs the unboosted (because unawakened) 7* Mojo. We get 765,380,616 vs 378,222,000. The 6* is the runaway favorite here. But suppose we want to know how high Mojo's sig needs to be for the 7* to overtake the 6*. We can just use some simple arithmetic here and solve for 7* Mojo's attack value. 12012 x 63718 = A x 77584; 12012 x 63718 / 77584 = A; A = 9865. 7* R2 Mojo has base attack of 4875, so the amount of fury buff he needs to overtake 6* Mojo is 9865 - 4875 = 4990. An awakened sig 1 Mojo has a sig fury buff of 4875, which is not quite high enough but very close. At sig 20 (a natural dup) the fury buff goes up to 5588, which is more than enough (the break even point is at about sig 4).
How about Ascension? Ascension increases 6* Attack and health by 22% (the percentages are different for different rarities). An ascended 6* R5 Mojo would have a total AH rating of 12012 x 1.22 x 63718 x 1.22 = 1,139,192,509. To reach that level a 7* R2 Mojo would have to get to a total attack rating of 14683, which would require a net fury buff of 9808. At max sig the fury buff would be 9750, which is actually slightly short. 7* R2 max sig would be delivering 99.6% of the damage that an ascended 6* R5 max sig Mojo was delivering per revive. 99.6% is essentially a tie in an estimate like this, but on paper it is a thin sliver lower.
If we want to factor healing into this estimation, that would complicate the math quite a bit. The short answer is, the shorter the fights last, the less proportional impact healing has. The longer they last, the more healing tips the balance towards the higher health champion, because the higher health champion has a disproportionate benefit from healing. Healing might seem like it can be incorporated as just having more health, but what it actually does is reduce incoming damage. Consider if incoming damage was 1000 dps, the difference between 990 healing per second and 1010 healing per second is not 2% more health, it is actually the difference between eventually dying and immortality. To factor this in requires complex linear estimators or calculus. But it would definitely be strong enough to tip the balance between 6* R5 ascended and 7* R2 both at max sig as above, given how tiny the difference is.
TL;DR: if you want to compare two different rarities of the same champ to see how different attack rating and health values matter, the simple rule of thumb is to multiply attack and health of each and compare. Bigger number wins. This does not account for healing: healing tips the scales towards the champion with higher health. Exactly how much usually takes big time math to determine. This also does not account for non-scaling effects: things that don't depend on either your attack rating or how much health you have. To be clear, this is a rule of thumb estimation, not a precise calculation.
6* R5 max sig Mojo is about equal to a 7* R2 sig 20 Mojo. A 6* R5 max sig ascended Mojo is about equal to a 7* R2 max sig Mojo. The 6* R5 max sig ascended Mojo is, of course, vastly easier and cheaper to acquire at the present time.
It's challenging to use them to their max potential in fights that can be difficult. It's rewarding to complete something like that. It's fun to use champs that are forgotten about and are a reason that many of us play the game in the first place.
I've completed both of Lagacy's challenges. I don't have the resources or the skill right now to do Mike's, and definitely not Fintech's. That's OK. Down the road I might have a go at them. For now I've really enjoyed watching others accomplish what I cannot- something that I've done a lot over the years that I've played this game. It gives me something to strive for and a way to connect to the community. I consider that a win. Though to be honest I've been fairly disgusted with the manner in which many in the community have behaved themselves while voicing their disagreement with this. Thought for sure we'd be better than that.
At the end of the day ... at least there's something for people to engage in around the game despite the conversation it creates.
He just posts diatribes and derails conversations. No one's reading all that.
Please forgive me.
The last time we seen challenges on this level was the Carina Challenges volume 1 where we had to use 4 stars in Labyrinth.
Next time, show the full context buddy
But otherwise it was just kind of… inevitable? Like, I didn’t need to do anything clever or try any off the wall playstyles or champions or mastery setups. It was just unga bunga Valiant now please. But I remember when fighting Abyss Korg (also with Aegon), I had to learn spacing techniques and heavy baiting so that I could get his rock stacks off of him without eating thorns damage. I had to grow as a player to do the content because it would’ve been too punishing to do the fight with the skills I had at the time.
And I think this illustrates the difference. Even several years later, I remember that particularly challenging Abyss fight. Whereas I finished my Necropolis exploration only a little over a month ago and I’ve forgotten most of the fights already. Necropolis was absolutely fun, I don’t want to knock it, but it didn’t really have a lot of memorable challenges.
Like I said, challenging and fun are both subjective, the only thing we know for sure is most people don't want bs nodes in the game. Now, I'm okay with us getting bs content every once in a while but if the rest of EOP this year is going to be like the stuff we've been getting lately (Carina's Challenges and WoW Abs Man I think I'm just going to quit. It may be fun for you, whether it's because you have the skills or enjoy the pain, but for most of us that's not the case and all the ccs that made the challenges are fully aware of this. Mike himself acknowledged the vast majority of the playerbase doesn't like this type of content with super bs nodes or absurd requirements so that's not even up for debate.
The LoL Star-Lord in Carina's 1 was a revive fest, straight up. It wasn't necessarily something I'd classify as "hard."
There was just nothing you could do to avoid spending dozens of revives in there no matter how well you played.
All of these are skill based - and while they could absolutely cost you just as many revives depending on play, they've also all been proven they could potentially be done in under 10.
They are very different types of challenges.
These are ultra hard - CV1 was, bluntly, a big mistake.
But I agree, WoW should not be consistently tuned to the level of this Abs Man, at least in part because of how deep the Deathless KG piece is into the milestones. That is a prize that, as I understand it, is meant to be attainable to a larger swath of the playerbase than the current round of Carina’s Challenges are, and so it is not ideal for them to be similar in difficulty. I think it’s substantially harder to get than any of the Guilly pieces were, and that’s not great. I hope that the next bosses come in at a lower difficulty than this one. I wouldn’t hate it if each season had one boss as tough as this Abs Man, but that one absolutely shouldn’t be the first one up. And I do think Kabam realizes Abs Man is overtuned, they said as much when they said they were going to tune his regen before he comes back for the WoW finale.
I also agree that I don’t want all content going forward to be tuned to the level of these Carina’s Challenges. That would be bad for the health of the game. But Kabam knows that. It’s why story content is so easy and why Necropolis landed where it did. I was wrong to say Necropolis wasn’t a challenge because you’re right, it is subjective. And that was challenge content for the majority of the playerbase. But for the players like me who are looking for something harder than that, these Challenges are perfect. And it makes me sad how aggressively the playerbase has backlashed on them, because they’re my favorite part of this game and come around so infrequently. I think that’s why I’m so vocal on the forums about this. Not because I want to convince people that they should love it, but because I just don’t want people to stop Kabam from making this every once in a while.
We'll see how they handle that situation I suppose, I really don't see how they could address that regen without nerfing him completely but his rebalance is already done so I don't know, maybe some node with petrify to help us out I don't know. I'm glad we agree on this though.
Fair enough, I understand your point of view. I definitely don't mind this type of content every once in a while, in fact the only reason I'm even worried is because of that Abs Man fight.
I think it was just terrible timing in general and they need to try to space it out better next time so we don't get oversaturated with bs content on the same month. I am almost 100% sure that the reason there was this much backlash is because Kabam released these challenges immediately after the WoW backlash. Now, I'm not saying nobody would've complained cause a lot of people probably still would've, but I'm sure a lot of people like me would've also been like "okay, we haven't had a big challenge in a bit, if I want one, the content is right there"
I feel like this is the first reasonable conversation I’ve been able to have on this topic since the challenges dropped, so thanks for that. Hopefully everybody gets the anger out of their systems soon and we can get back to the forums working like this a little more.
I don't think it would've clashed that much with Necropolis cause when you finish a Necropolis run it doesn't leave a bitter taste in your mouth no matter how bad you are because the fights are just extremely fun in general + revive farming was still a thing. If these had been released in October I think the backlash would've been at the very least cut in half.
Yeah I hear ya, same here although I will admit, I did say some unsavory things to certain individuals who weren't looking for civilized discussions hence the bars on my profile picture lol but yeah, it's nice being able to disagree with someone on this topic without any animosity. Wish everyone was willing to discuss things the same way.