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Will Bullseye get nerfed?

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    Dab_westDab_west Posts: 133
    Nah he’s good. Those blades got nothing on me.
    Skyfaw said:

    ahmynuts said:

    Skyfaw said:

    That’s what people say when they’re r5 ascended. They just say r6 lmao

    That's what you say, lol. I've never seen another person say r6 for ascension.
    1. Ascension != a r6
    2. There is already r6 coded into the game with seven stars. What are you going to call those when we get there? R7?
    Ascension just = a rank up in power
    I wasn’t the one who came up with it. I’ve seen streamers say it and makes sense to me. Imagine saying r5 ascended all the time it’s kinda of a mouthful. Don’t know why you making a big deal out of it.

    Checks out to me lol
    most of the top players call ascended 6 star r5 champs r6, so ur good :)
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    BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
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    BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades
    The only thing I would change though is, his Killer instinct should be consumed upon throwing a special. It’s unnecessary to make him a chip damage defender and a delay defender at the same time.

    He also needs a bit of an attacker buff too. His damage is mid, even if you play him well
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,629 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades
    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
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    ErcarretErcarret Posts: 2,787 ★★★★★
    Nah he’s good. Those blades got nothing on me.
    I doubt that he'll be nerfed and I personally took him to r2 yesterday, but I will probably wait for the update on him before taking him to r3. I think that's just prudent given that his position in the game isn't cemented yet.

    I feel like Bullseye is kind of similar to Peni when she was first released. They're both super annoying and can't be countered by the usual methods, but as players become more familiar with Bullseye, I have a feeling that they'll be able to counter him with just about every champion around just by playing things slow, just as with Peni. You don't need a hard counter to take Peni down, you need one to take her down quickly.

    Same with Bullseye. Assuming you can dodge his specials (which, if you're like me and currently can't, is something you'll eventually learn in time), you just have to be very careful about when and how you push him over a power bar threshold. I've had quite some success with pushing him to 90% of a bar of power, stunning him, then pushing him to a bar of power while stunned, bait a special and then wait out the evade. This is REALLY ANNOYING - just like hitting Peni's block a bunch of times was before we got any direct counters to her - but there is a way to defeat him.

    That said, it's still easier said than done. I'm by no means claiming to be some perfect Bullseye counterer. I've been beaten into the dust by him just as many times as anyone else here has. I'm just saying...in theory...there's currently a way.
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    call_me_ogcall_me_og Posts: 87
    Nah he’s good. Those blades got nothing on me.

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    photon is allready getting completley countered by classic daredevil though
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,629 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    photon is allready getting completley countered by classic daredevil though
    What does that have to do with anything? Lol my reply was in response to someone saying "we'll get counters for Bullseye within three months". Daredevil has been in the game for years, no idea what you're trying to argue here.
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    call_me_ogcall_me_og Posts: 87
    Nah he’s good. Those blades got nothing on me.

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    photon is allready getting completley countered by classic daredevil though
    What does that have to do with anything? Lol my reply was in response to someone saying "we'll get counters for Bullseye within three months". Daredevil has been in the game for years, no idea what you're trying to argue here.
    what im trying to argue is that photon allready has counters
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    MadGodOryxMadGodOryx Posts: 59
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades
    Ercarret said:

    I doubt that he'll be nerfed and I personally took him to r2 yesterday, but I will probably wait for the update on him before taking him to r3. I think that's just prudent given that his position in the game isn't cemented yet.

    I feel like Bullseye is kind of similar to Peni when she was first released. They're both super annoying and can't be countered by the usual methods, but as players become more familiar with Bullseye, I have a feeling that they'll be able to counter him with just about every champion around just by playing things slow, just as with Peni. You don't need a hard counter to take Peni down, you need one to take her down quickly.

    Same with Bullseye. Assuming you can dodge his specials (which, if you're like me and currently can't, is something you'll eventually learn in time), you just have to be very careful about when and how you push him over a power bar threshold. I've had quite some success with pushing him to 90% of a bar of power, stunning him, then pushing him to a bar of power while stunned, bait a special and then wait out the evade. This is REALLY ANNOYING - just like hitting Peni's block a bunch of times was before we got any direct counters to her - but there is a way to defeat him.

    That said, it's still easier said than done. I'm by no means claiming to be some perfect Bullseye counterer. I've been beaten into the dust by him just as many times as anyone else here has. I'm just saying...in theory...there's currently a way.

    Blud if I play it slow against Peni, even as a champ who cannot counter her, I can end the fight with 100% HP.

    If I play it slow against Bullsey, perfectly Dex all specials, I’ll end up with 70% HP just because I’m not immune to bleed. Thats ****. This isnt a “Oh just learn him” thing. Folks have learned him. Top players like Bero know the counters. And even with those counters he can easily shave off 20% of your life with a single special, or worse if you make a single mistake

    I doubt hes getting nerfed because Kabam seems to be going down a dark road with defenders rn and Photon dodged nerfs with zero fanfare, but lets not sweep Bullseye’s **** under the rug like it doesn’t stink.
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    call_me_ogcall_me_og Posts: 87
    Nah he’s good. Those blades got nothing on me.


    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    photon is allready getting completley countered by classic daredevil though
    Classic Daredevil struggles to even kill Photon before the timer runs out in AW, much less BGs lmao.
    there are still other counters for photon
    photon isnt that bad if you kill her qucikly
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,629 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    photon is allready getting completley countered by classic daredevil though
    What does that have to do with anything? Lol my reply was in response to someone saying "we'll get counters for Bullseye within three months". Daredevil has been in the game for years, no idea what you're trying to argue here.
    what im trying to argue is that photon allready has counters
    1. Daredevil is a turtle in BGs.
    2. She does have other counters but that isn't the whole point of the argument here, you're trying to argue the obvious when nobody here is arguing against it.
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    MadGodOryxMadGodOryx Posts: 59
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades


    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    photon is allready getting completley countered by classic daredevil though
    Classic Daredevil struggles to even kill Photon before the timer runs out in AW, much less BGs lmao.
    there are still other counters for photon
    photon isnt that bad if you kill her qucikly
    >Photon isnt that bad if you kill her quickly

    >Uses OG Daredevil as his go to example

    Photon player’s copium is just on another level. Its truly a wonder to behold firsthand
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    BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
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    SandPounderSandPounder Posts: 343 ★★★
    Nah he’s good. Those blades got nothing on me.
    Annoying defender that forces us to use expensive resources get nerfed….. pffft…. You don’t know Kabam.
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    GrandOldKaiGrandOldKai Posts: 787 ★★★★
    tbh, he needs an offensive buff (as long as it doesn't make him more awful to fight against)
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,629 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades
    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
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    BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
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    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,629 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades
    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
    No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
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    Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,331 ★★★★★

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
    No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
    By that token even apoc does not have a ‘hard counter’. He was released in 2020 but to date kabam hasn’t released a ‘hard counter’ for him. There is no hope for a ‘hard counter’ for bullseye.
  • Options
    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,629 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades
    Graves_3 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
    No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
    By that token even apoc does not have a ‘hard counter’. He was released in 2020 but to date kabam hasn’t released a ‘hard counter’ for him. There is no hope for a ‘hard counter’ for bullseye.
    What is there to counter? He doesn't even have strong defensive abilities that require a counter.
  • Options
    Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,331 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
    No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
    By that token even apoc does not have a ‘hard counter’. He was released in 2020 but to date kabam hasn’t released a ‘hard counter’ for him. There is no hope for a ‘hard counter’ for bullseye.
    What is there to counter? He doesn't even have strong defensive abilities that require a counter.
    He has poison, degen, concussion, bleed, weakness. Nobody who can counter his kit completely. Ergo, no ‘hard counter’.
  • Options
    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,629 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
    No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
    By that token even apoc does not have a ‘hard counter’. He was released in 2020 but to date kabam hasn’t released a ‘hard counter’ for him. There is no hope for a ‘hard counter’ for bullseye.
    What is there to counter? He doesn't even have strong defensive abilities that require a counter.
    He has poison, degen, concussion, bleed, weakness. Nobody who can counter his kit completely. Ergo, no ‘hard counter’.
    Those aren't defensive abilities though, defensive abilities are the ones that trigger when you hit or get close to the defender not when the defender hits you or gets close to you, hence the word "defensive".

    Also, in order for him to apply one of those he has to clip you with a basic attack and throw sp1 or sp2 without you blocking it, meaning you already have complete control over those abilities as long as you don't get hit. Not the same as Photon or Bullseye, you don't have complete control over Photon's debuffs or phasing (if you stun her), or Bullseye's evade. All of them can trigger regardless of you blocking attacking or dexing.
  • Options
    Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,331 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
    No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
    By that token even apoc does not have a ‘hard counter’. He was released in 2020 but to date kabam hasn’t released a ‘hard counter’ for him. There is no hope for a ‘hard counter’ for bullseye.
    What is there to counter? He doesn't even have strong defensive abilities that require a counter.
    He has poison, degen, concussion, bleed, weakness. Nobody who can counter his kit completely. Ergo, no ‘hard counter’.
    Those aren't defensive abilities though, defensive abilities are the ones that trigger when you hit or get close to the defender not when the defender hits you or gets close to you, hence the word "defensive".

    Also, in order for him to apply one of those he has to clip you with a basic attack and throw sp1 or sp2 without you blocking it, meaning you already have complete control over those abilities as long as you don't get hit. Not the same as Photon or Bullseye, you don't have complete control over Photon's debuffs or phasing (if you stun her), or Bullseye's evade. All of them can trigger regardless of you blocking attacking or dexing.
    You mean to say you counter apoc by being skillful and not getting hit? Thats exactly what people have been trying to tell you about photon. If you use one of defensive ability accuracy reduction champs, you can prevent her from going into pure light form and completely counter her. What else do you mean by a counter for photon?
  • Options
    BigBlueOxBigBlueOx Posts: 1,597 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
    No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
    The only skill I’m questioning right now is reading comprehension. Previously it was a specific matchup interaction in a game with thousands but I’ve seen you act like you know more that the guy who makes deep dives so rather than attempt to fill a knowledge gap I’m happy to let you go on in ignorance.
  • Options
    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,629 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades
    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
    No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
    By that token even apoc does not have a ‘hard counter’. He was released in 2020 but to date kabam hasn’t released a ‘hard counter’ for him. There is no hope for a ‘hard counter’ for bullseye.
    What is there to counter? He doesn't even have strong defensive abilities that require a counter.
    He has poison, degen, concussion, bleed, weakness. Nobody who can counter his kit completely. Ergo, no ‘hard counter’.
    Those aren't defensive abilities though, defensive abilities are the ones that trigger when you hit or get close to the defender not when the defender hits you or gets close to you, hence the word "defensive".

    Also, in order for him to apply one of those he has to clip you with a basic attack and throw sp1 or sp2 without you blocking it, meaning you already have complete control over those abilities as long as you don't get hit. Not the same as Photon or Bullseye, you don't have complete control over Photon's debuffs or phasing (if you stun her), or Bullseye's evade. All of them can trigger regardless of you blocking attacking or dexing.
    You mean to say you counter apoc by being skillful and not getting hit? Thats exactly what people have been trying to tell you about photon. If you use one of defensive ability accuracy reduction champs, you can prevent her from going into pure light form and completely counter her. What else do you mean by a counter for photon?
    I never said that isn't how you counter Photon, in fact I've agreed with them multiple times on this thread, you counter Photon with skilled gameplay yes.

    Lol what? I never said Mantis Crossbones and other champs aren't counters, they are counters, but they're not hard counters. Can they counter miss? Can they block unblockable specials? If they could they would be hard counters, they can't therefore they're great counters but that's it. While they can indeed counter Photon better than most champs, they don't shut down every or most defensive abilities she has in her kit.
    I'm not disagreeing with someone calling them counters cause I actually agree, I'm disagreeing with calling them hard counters. If you disagree with me then agree to disagree 😂
  • Options
    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,629 ★★★★★
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades
    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
    No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
    The only skill I’m questioning right now is reading comprehension. Previously it was a specific matchup interaction in a game with thousands but I’ve seen you act like you know more that the guy who makes deep dives so rather than attempt to fill a knowledge gap I’m happy to let you go on in ignorance.
    Karatemike has corrected me on multiple occasions about certain stuff and so have other people, to which I've replied "good to know, thanks for the info!". This sounds more like you being mad at me because I've hurt you on a personal level (if I did I truly do apologize), get well soon mate! 🙂
  • Options
    Graves_3Graves_3 Posts: 1,331 ★★★★★

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    Graves_3 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    victor158 said:

    Pikolu said:

    Doubtful.

    Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.

    You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
    What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.

    Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
    Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.

    She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
    what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
    All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials.
    Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.

    And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
    If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
    I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter.
    Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
    If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
    She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter.
    If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
    Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
    No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
    By that token even apoc does not have a ‘hard counter’. He was released in 2020 but to date kabam hasn’t released a ‘hard counter’ for him. There is no hope for a ‘hard counter’ for bullseye.
    What is there to counter? He doesn't even have strong defensive abilities that require a counter.
    He has poison, degen, concussion, bleed, weakness. Nobody who can counter his kit completely. Ergo, no ‘hard counter’.
    Those aren't defensive abilities though, defensive abilities are the ones that trigger when you hit or get close to the defender not when the defender hits you or gets close to you, hence the word "defensive".

    Also, in order for him to apply one of those he has to clip you with a basic attack and throw sp1 or sp2 without you blocking it, meaning you already have complete control over those abilities as long as you don't get hit. Not the same as Photon or Bullseye, you don't have complete control over Photon's debuffs or phasing (if you stun her), or Bullseye's evade. All of them can trigger regardless of you blocking attacking or dexing.
    You mean to say you counter apoc by being skillful and not getting hit? Thats exactly what people have been trying to tell you about photon. If you use one of defensive ability accuracy reduction champs, you can prevent her from going into pure light form and completely counter her. What else do you mean by a counter for photon?
    I never said that isn't how you counter Photon, in fact I've agreed with them multiple times on this thread, you counter Photon with skilled gameplay yes.

    Lol what? I never said Mantis Crossbones and other champs aren't counters, they are counters, but they're not hard counters. Can they counter miss? Can they block unblockable specials? If they could they would be hard counters, they can't therefore they're great counters but that's it. While they can indeed counter Photon better than most champs, they don't shut down every or most defensive abilities she has in her kit.
    I'm not disagreeing with someone calling them counters cause I actually agree, I'm disagreeing with calling them hard counters. If you disagree with me then agree to disagree 😂
    She only has unblockable undexable specials in pure light form. If she doesn’t gain charges, she can’t go into pure light form. Thereby negating the biggest threat in her kit. So you basically need someone who can also stun her safely so you can do parry 5 hits. OG cap has a kit straight forward enough for simple parry 5hit game play. I guess kabam should stick to releasing champs like him
  • Options
    MadGodOryxMadGodOryx Posts: 59
    Yes definitely. He is to sassy with those blades

    Annoying defender that forces us to use expensive resources get nerfed….. pffft…. You don’t know Kabam.

    Yeah. Thats the thing isnt it? Do I think he should get nerfed? Yeah definitely. Do I think Kabam will actually do it? Absolutely not
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