Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.
You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.
Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.
She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials. Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.
And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter. Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter. If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
By that token even apoc does not have a ‘hard counter’. He was released in 2020 but to date kabam hasn’t released a ‘hard counter’ for him. There is no hope for a ‘hard counter’ for bullseye.
What is there to counter? He doesn't even have strong defensive abilities that require a counter.
He has poison, degen, concussion, bleed, weakness. Nobody who can counter his kit completely. Ergo, no ‘hard counter’.
Those aren't defensive abilities though, defensive abilities are the ones that trigger when you hit or get close to the defender not when the defender hits you or gets close to you, hence the word "defensive".
Also, in order for him to apply one of those he has to clip you with a basic attack and throw sp1 or sp2 without you blocking it, meaning you already have complete control over those abilities as long as you don't get hit. Not the same as Photon or Bullseye, you don't have complete control over Photon's debuffs or phasing (if you stun her), or Bullseye's evade. All of them can trigger regardless of you blocking attacking or dexing.
You mean to say you counter apoc by being skillful and not getting hit? Thats exactly what people have been trying to tell you about photon. If you use one of defensive ability accuracy reduction champs, you can prevent her from going into pure light form and completely counter her. What else do you mean by a counter for photon?
I never said that isn't how you counter Photon, in fact I've agreed with them multiple times on this thread, you counter Photon with skilled gameplay yes.
Lol what? I never said Mantis Crossbones and other champs aren't counters, they are counters, but they're not hard counters. Can they counter miss? Can they block unblockable specials? If they could they would be hard counters, they can't therefore they're great counters but that's it. While they can indeed counter Photon better than most champs, they don't shut down every or most defensive abilities she has in her kit. I'm not disagreeing with someone calling them counters cause I actually agree, I'm disagreeing with calling them hard counters. If you disagree with me then agree to disagree 😂
She only has unblockable undexable specials in pure light form. If she doesn’t gain charges, she can’t go into pure light form. Thereby negating the biggest threat in her kit. So you basically need someone who can also stun her safely so you can do parry 5 hits. OG cap has a kit straight forward enough for simple parry 5hit game play. I guess kabam should stick to releasing champs like him
Personally I don't, and if you don't either then that's great. However, since there are people who had to buy three Odin's per Necropolis run, yes they need to be able to parry freely because they probably can't intercept. Would Mantis be a hard counter for those type of players? No, and they'll probably get clapped if they use Mantis. However give those same a players an ID so they can fight a Bishop or a Galan so they can fight a Peni and they will most likely finish the fight in 30 secs with more than half health because those are in fact hard counters that even a **** player can successfully use against strong defenders that require a counter.
Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.
You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.
Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.
She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials. Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.
And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
If Photon gets to pure light mode against you when using Mantis… that’s a git gud problem not a problem with a definitive hard counter. The only thing she can’t bypass is miss which isn’t a problem if you know how to play Mantis correctly.
I don't think you're quite getting what I'm saying, Mantis is a counter indeed, but she's not a hard counter. She doesn't absolutely destroy Photon effortlessly the way Galan destroys Peni or the way ID destroys Bishop because she doesn't actually shut down all of Photon's abilities completely. I'm not arguing Mantis doesn't counter Photon cause she does, but she's not a hard counter. Also, for like the fifth time, I don't have any issues with Photon lmao I have a 7* Mantis myself, I know what you're saying but that's not what I'm arguing here.
If you don’t think she’s a Hard counter when she shuts down Photon’s ability to inflict debuffs and do all her Photon things… then you don’t understand what a hard counter is.
She doesn't shut it down completely, the tranquilize lasts for 1 second after she starts landing hits, it's not permanent so you still have to be careful whereas with actual hard counters like ID for Bishop or Galan for Peni you don't have to worry about anything because their abilities will mitigate all the damage from their defensive abilities 100% regardless of whether Bishop throws sp1 and triggers steady release or Peni autoblocks and power burns you. If Photon goes into pure light form when you're using Mantis (whether it's because you suck at intercepting or weren't paying attention to her charges) she has no way to deal with the unblockable undexable specials and the fight could go South really fast. It doesn't matter how skilled you are or how bad you are, objectively Mantis cannot shut down all or most of Photon's abilities therefore she's not a hard counter. If anyone isn't understanding anything here it's you lol.
Nah. You should go learn how to properly play the match up. It’s possible to keep the tranquilize up 100% until you drop the sp2 that kills her 99% of the time. It’s a 30-40 second fight that ends in a full yellow bar.
No counter arguments just personal attacks about my skills, so predictable lmao I've done that matchup countless times, I know it's not hard. This however doesn't change the fact that objectively she's not a hard counter because she doesn't shut down all or most of Photon's abilities, she's a counter and that's it.
The only skill I’m questioning right now is reading comprehension. Previously it was a specific matchup interaction in a game with thousands but I’ve seen you act like you know more that the guy who makes deep dives so rather than attempt to fill a knowledge gap I’m happy to let you go on in ignorance.
Karatemike has corrected me on multiple occasions about certain stuff and so have other people, to which I've replied "good to know, thanks for the info!". This sounds more like you being mad at me because I've hurt you on a personal level (if I did I truly do apologize), get well soon mate! 🙂
Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.
You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
photon is allready getting completley countered by classic daredevil though
Classic Daredevil struggles to even kill Photon before the timer runs out in AW, much less BGs lmao.
there are still other counters for photon photon isnt that bad if you kill her qucikly
>Photon isnt that bad if you kill her quickly
>Uses OG Daredevil as his go to example
Photon player’s copium is just on another level. Its truly a wonder to behold firsthand
og daredevil is simply the best option for her outside of battlegrounds as he evades any ranged attacks which means he will fully evade all of photons specials and he alr cant miss you still havent undermined my other statement that photon allready has counters
Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.
You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
photon is allready getting completley countered by classic daredevil though
Classic Daredevil struggles to even kill Photon before the timer runs out in AW, much less BGs lmao.
there are still other counters for photon photon isnt that bad if you kill her qucikly
>Photon isnt that bad if you kill her quickly
>Uses OG Daredevil as his go to example
Photon player’s copium is just on another level. Its truly a wonder to behold firsthand
og daredevil is simply the best option for her outside of battlegrounds as he evades any ranged attacks which means he will fully evade all of photons specials and he alr cant miss you still havent undermined my other statement that photon allready has counters
Buddy OG Daredevil is lucky if he can kill a Miniboss Photon before the time runs out on AW.
She has other counters that are ok, Black Cat and Baron Zemo being my Go Tos at the moment, but even they struggle against her kit and a single **** up will leave them half dead.
And the fact you’re pathetically trying to act like OG Daredevil is anything other than a wet noodle cheese pick frankly says more about how awful Photon is than any counterpoint. Because THATS your first idea for the counter.
Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.
You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
What are you waffling on about? There's a ton of photon counters in the game already. Anyone with DAAR doesn't have to worry about her ever getting to pure light mode, those who don't need dexterity to dodge can dodge her specials in pure light, and skill alone can get around her annoying mechanics.
Also iron heart is almost the perfect onslaught counter
Nobody in the game counters her whole kit, what are you waffling about? I didn't say there aren't any counters at all, I said we don't have any hard counters meaning they shut down every single thing she has in her kit the way ID does with Bishop, or the way Galan does with Peni cause that's what people are arguing on this thread.
She has some stuff, but again she doesn't hard counter everything in Onslaught's kit, did you even read what I typed before you replied?
what part of her hit does xbones and mantis not counter? even ramped kate, kingpin, chee, taskmaster work, and if u play around her charges u can use basically anyone with good dmg like hulkling
All of them are screwed if she goes into pure light (if you're skilled enough you can play around that too of course), they have nothing to counter the unblockable specials. Also, you literally just said it yourself "play around her charges". With a hard counter you don't have to play around anything cause the champ can deal with everything in the defender's kit just by existing. That's why it's called a hard counter and not a counter.
And again, yes I don't have any issues with Photon she doesn't require counters just skilled gameplay this however doesn't change the fact that she doesn't have any hard counters who can shut down all of her annoying abilities effectively in BGs without wasting a ton of time (example Kate cause she has to go for one or two sp1s just so she doesn't get any debuffs on her and then start dealing damage with coldsnap, too long for BGs).
But.... photon never gets to purelight form against taskmaster or xbones or mantis, ramped kate, so are they not perfect counters?
This man was fighting for his life in here just to be proven entirely wrong. Ouch lmao
Fighting for my life about what exactly? Them releasing a Bullseye counter wasn't even the main thing I was arguing about, do you know how to read or did someone read that other reply out loud for you to compensate for the lack of brain cells?
After I selected yes, I rethought it and I do not think he will get nerfed. He is not overly difficult in normal matchups, the bigggest frustration comes from the Magic Thief tactic. His block penetration as a 7* is crazy, and with the tactic, you cant evade, put him on a stun reflection node (which almost everyone does), and you have a really annoying and frustrating fight.
I don’t really care one way or another. Either he isn’t and he’s optional or he is and is a staple. It’s kabam’s world and we’re just living in it. I think they’d rather sell a solution than fix the problem.
Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.
You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
Well well well, this didn’t age well for you with the arrival of nega sonic huh? Lmaooo
They still haven't released a champ that counters Onslaught directly lmao
True.
I'm a little surprised they made Prowler #Metal. If he wasn't, he'd have been a pretty good option for Onslaught. Similarly, Ironheart; although in her case, #Metal was probably unavoidable
Presumably they're planning some other counter in the near future...
Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.
You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
Well well well, this didn’t age well for you with the arrival of nega sonic huh? Lmaooo
They still haven't released a champ that counters Onslaught directly lmao
True.
I'm a little surprised they made Prowler #Metal. If he wasn't, he'd have been a pretty good option for Onslaught. Similarly, Ironheart; although in her case, #Metal was probably unavoidable
Presumably they're planning some other counter in the near future...
Within three months there will be a new champ who is an easy counter to Bullseye.
You say that as if they had already released champs who counter Photon and Onslaught directly, they haven't.
Well well well, this didn’t age well for you with the arrival of nega sonic huh? Lmaooo
They still haven't released a champ that counters Onslaught directly lmao
True.
I'm a little surprised they made Prowler #Metal. If he wasn't, he'd have been a pretty good option for Onslaught. Similarly, Ironheart; although in her case, #Metal was probably unavoidable
Presumably they're planning some other counter in the near future...
Probably not cause he still needs to apply incinerate to get the massive rupture damage and if you incinerate Onslaught you're dead. I do hope they bring a neuroshock immune in the future though, don't want neuroshock to be the new degen.
Comments
you still havent undermined my other statement that photon allready has counters
She has other counters that are ok, Black Cat and Baron Zemo being my Go Tos at the moment, but even they struggle against her kit and a single **** up will leave them half dead.
And the fact you’re pathetically trying to act like OG Daredevil is anything other than a wet noodle cheese pick frankly says more about how awful Photon is than any counterpoint. Because THATS your first idea for the counter.
STOP GIVING THEM IDEAS. Just let good champions be good, FFS.
I'm a little surprised they made Prowler #Metal. If he wasn't, he'd have been a pretty good option for Onslaught. Similarly, Ironheart; although in her case, #Metal was probably unavoidable
Presumably they're planning some other counter in the near future...
I do hope they bring a neuroshock immune in the future though, don't want neuroshock to be the new degen.