Do they even care about their playerbase?

2

Comments

  • klobberintymeklobberintyme Member Posts: 1,607 ★★★★
    Kabam Jax said:

    "Do they even care...?"
    I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.


    TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).

    Jax is above and beyond the best. Get this man the raise he deserves.
  • OldManHopOldManHop Member Posts: 296 ★★★
    edited March 18
    Kabam Jax said:

    Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them.

    Before I say this... I'm a pretty happy player. I spend on this game fairly frequently and have no intentions to quit the game anytime soon.

    Jax: You're not wrong... but sometimes people feel like it's mandatory to spend money, lest they be unable to continue. Sunk cost fallacy kicks in and then they're not spending money because they "enjoy" it but instead do so begrudgingly - that's how we end up on the forums with complaints like the ones you see so frequently.

    In general (especially for newer players), spending in this game doesn't feel rewarding - it feels like something you're required to do if you want to enjoy the game at the pace set by the content release schedule. There are exceptions to this, of course... piggy bank deals, double track events, etc., but it doesn't change the fact that many lower-progress players are absolutely inundated with purchase options that, from their perspective, exist solely to get them "un-stuck" in situations that seem engineered to get them stuck in the first place.

    I understand that it's a difficult balance. You are, after all, running a business whose purpose is to keep the game alive and, in turn, to keep people employed who allow that to happen... but I would suggest brainstorming ways to make more purchase options that make the player (especially newer & low-progress players) feel rewarded while giving them more FREE options for getting "un-stuck".

    I don't know what this would look like, but I hope it's at least something worth thinking about.


  • WarlockjrWarlockjr Member Posts: 811 ★★★

    People have been complaining about BGs since season 1...

    i just got back into it after a year lol but its like decent now in my opinion.
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Member Posts: 6,101 ★★★★★
    Kazorax said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    Kazorax said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    "Do they even care...?"
    I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.

    Allow me to pull up a chair, turn it backwards all cool, camp counsellor-like and just wax poetic about community management here for a moment.

    Let me say, first: I am incredibly grateful to work as a community manager, and even more-so to work within such a passionate community.

    In my career I learned quickly that once a community reaches a certain size - and it's way smaller than you might think - it is impossible to please everyone. Does that mean we don't care? No, we absolutely care - we just can't do something to soothe every issue for every individual.

    Think about it this way: for every "concern" you have on this list, there are certainly people in this community that feel the opposite. Hate your Battlegrounds matchup? I'm sure the person on the other side loved it. I'm not sure which "horrible event" we're referring to, but I've heard a great deal of praise for numerous new pieces of content, Necropolis among the most notable. Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them. Our job is to find and understand the balance on these specific topics.

    A brief aside to say that I'm grateful our game really only allows people to buy time, with enough effort free to play Summoners are still able to keep up (yes I know it's a lot of effort). I also love that this game has something for everyone. I know some people feel the need to complete *all* of the content and feel stressed that they cannot. I enjoy that everyone has a favourite and could stick to playing just their favourite, if they really wanted. That doesn't mean all the other content is "bad" it just likely means it isn't meant for them.

    So, back on track, let me ask the difficult question: how do we show Summoners we care? Well, that's a tough one to consider, as everyone has their own standards and we circle back to not being able to please everyone. But! There are constant internal conversations about community sentiment, a consistent feedback loop between the community team and the game team to discuss how everyone is feeling and (everyone's favourite!) data! These conversations happen outside the eye of the community, but there are always people advocating for the community needs. At the end of the day - and this likely isn't the first time you're seeing this - sometimes what the community wants conflicts with what the game needs.

    Outwardly, we communicate as effectively as we can. But that doesn't mean we hop into every thread in the forum to provide one-on-one consolation with every issue, especially when they're about larger concepts/gripes with systems such as Battlegrounds matchmaking. That's just not what the forums are for. The forums are one of many factors that contribute to the previously mentioned internal conversations. Yes, we hop into conversations where we're able, and address bugs when they happen. And we always see the call for constant updates, even to just say "we're still working on it" - but that's just an unrealistic expectation to set, because we're doing a lot of things (like telling the gameteam about conversations and trends on behalf of the community!) and there are limited number of hours in a day.

    At the end of the day, I love our livestreams and events like Battlerealm Brawl most because they allow us to connect with all of you in a much more engaging, live setting. I know not all of our forums-folks love the livestreams, and not everyone can fly to attend a live event, and that's okay. But it is our way of reaching out and showing the community we care. We care enough to not only communicate, but to connect and share a laugh and bond over a mutual love for this game and this community.

    Thank you for reading this borderline nonsensical monologue about how we care about you. It might not always be in the way you want, but we're humans and we're doing our best.

    TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).

    The response is appreciated, but we as a player base need more than "we have conversations on the back end". The U.S. Congress has loads of conversations, little to no actual good change coming from any of it, as an example(please do not spawn politics from this, just an example of a point I am making).

    There is no prior communication given from Kabam on these. If a mistake is made, and itd acknowledged, and the same mistake is being made over and over, what was the point of anything? If these posts are simply being read and not genuinely considered, and no real change is ever going to happen, then it's a moot point

    I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
    OoooUuuu, don't think I've ever been compared to US Congress before. Not sure if I should take it as a compliment... (but almost definitely not)

    I think you may have missed the general sentiment intended with my post. It is this: We care about the community, we try to advocate for the masses, and just because you can't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't.

    Furthermore, we understand we can't please everyone, and just because you're upset about something, doesn't mean the team is going to jump to cater to your specific needs - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one.
    What I take from this, then, is that kabam doesn't care about Paragon - under players anymore then. For example, All content is catered for valiants now. Everyone else gets awful rewards, and over difficult content such as Winter of Woe. We can't do BGs in the victory track of all places because I'm going up against valiant decks with 24k PI minimums with 8-10 ascended 6* maxes, and 7* r3/r2s galore. How is that your intent for the NON Gladiators circuit meta? I don't understand how this caters to your masses, unless you are catering to giving valiants easy rewards and making life hell for anyone else who wants to genuinely have fun in the only real competitive mode we have (war doesn't really count imho, especially with the god awful tactics and lack of testing of such before release)

    Sentimentality only goes so far, and as much as ide love to accept it at face value, isn't that what we've been doing for years now? Behind the scenes talk/data can be whatever you want it to be, but the reality is valiants got it EASY. Easy VT matches, where they can rampantly destroy lower decks with pay to win new characters, side quests catered to people with giant decks of all ranked characters to be able to squish Winter of woe for examples... I don't dismiss their hard work or wallet to get to that point, but let other players enjoy the game...
    This is all completely false. I'm a paragon. I have a grand total of 10 7* not a single one is above r1. I only have 1 r5 6*. Yet I've been able to do everything in game just fine and at my own pace as I see fit. I have also only ever spent money during platimun double tracks and I've been playing the game since the beginning. Find another hill to die on. The game is absolutely easy for anyone willing to learn and try and no just spending money.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,464 ★★★★★
    Kazorax said:

    Kazorax said:

    GC should be where you duke it out, VT should be about fairness. Locking rewards behind 3 consecutive VT's when you're a high performing paragon account vs valiant with nothing under 23K and 4 7* R3's and every single new champ with perfect counters to yours is actual BS. Combined with the fact that valiants just straight up can buy 6* r5 and ascend every new champ right into their BG roster and fight paragons to EASILY get through VT and grab these same "rewards" for little to no effort is not right. The bg Victor is being decided literally the moment it paired a huge valiant whale roster vs paragons. There's literally nothing any of you can say that changes this FACT.

    It offers literally no logical benefit to the game. You have 0 chance of advancing with 5 matches in a row required while fighting accounts like that.

    Beyond that, every single EVENT quest(I should have clarified) has been absolute garbage, along with absolute horribly designed defenders that have come out with terrible tactics in war.

    Wait a min, a few posts ago you said something about Magus spending 120k Euros and not spending much on this last one, and now you think its impossible to advance with "monster accounts" like that....so which one is it?. You dont want monster accounts around or you wanna give whales more reasons to spend?
    I never said this at all.
    Yeah sorry it was someone else with same profile pic.
  • Jaffa_Jaffa_ Member Posts: 39

    Kabam Jax said:

    "Do they even care...?"
    I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.


    TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).

    Jax is above and beyond the best. Get this man the raise he deserves.
    Think they need to go one better and add spider punk
  • A_FungiA_Fungi Member Posts: 999 ★★★★
    Your hang up on valiants vs paragon is kinda dumb.

    Do we get better daily crystals and some selectors? Yes, but necro took a lot of grinded resources.

    But roster is very different. The only need for valiant is 2 R3 7s... that is not likely going to vastly set you apart from veteran paragon accounts in BGs.

    Winter of Woe is also not greatly affected because we can only use 1 champ each time... unlikely to be our R3 champ (except hulk against abs).

    Instead of complaining in circles on forums, go get yourself in the arena for some units and become valiant yourself.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    Kazorax said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    Kazorax said:

    Kabam Jax said:

    "Do they even care...?"
    I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.

    Allow me to pull up a chair, turn it backwards all cool, camp counsellor-like and just wax poetic about community management here for a moment.

    Let me say, first: I am incredibly grateful to work as a community manager, and even more-so to work within such a passionate community.

    In my career I learned quickly that once a community reaches a certain size - and it's way smaller than you might think - it is impossible to please everyone. Does that mean we don't care? No, we absolutely care - we just can't do something to soothe every issue for every individual.

    Think about it this way: for every "concern" you have on this list, there are certainly people in this community that feel the opposite. Hate your Battlegrounds matchup? I'm sure the person on the other side loved it. I'm not sure which "horrible event" we're referring to, but I've heard a great deal of praise for numerous new pieces of content, Necropolis among the most notable. Deals being a cash grab? I mean, it's a purchase, so, kind of hard to debate that, but the people buying them must enjoy them. Our job is to find and understand the balance on these specific topics.

    A brief aside to say that I'm grateful our game really only allows people to buy time, with enough effort free to play Summoners are still able to keep up (yes I know it's a lot of effort). I also love that this game has something for everyone. I know some people feel the need to complete *all* of the content and feel stressed that they cannot. I enjoy that everyone has a favourite and could stick to playing just their favourite, if they really wanted. That doesn't mean all the other content is "bad" it just likely means it isn't meant for them.

    So, back on track, let me ask the difficult question: how do we show Summoners we care? Well, that's a tough one to consider, as everyone has their own standards and we circle back to not being able to please everyone. But! There are constant internal conversations about community sentiment, a consistent feedback loop between the community team and the game team to discuss how everyone is feeling and (everyone's favourite!) data! These conversations happen outside the eye of the community, but there are always people advocating for the community needs. At the end of the day - and this likely isn't the first time you're seeing this - sometimes what the community wants conflicts with what the game needs.

    Outwardly, we communicate as effectively as we can. But that doesn't mean we hop into every thread in the forum to provide one-on-one consolation with every issue, especially when they're about larger concepts/gripes with systems such as Battlegrounds matchmaking. That's just not what the forums are for. The forums are one of many factors that contribute to the previously mentioned internal conversations. Yes, we hop into conversations where we're able, and address bugs when they happen. And we always see the call for constant updates, even to just say "we're still working on it" - but that's just an unrealistic expectation to set, because we're doing a lot of things (like telling the gameteam about conversations and trends on behalf of the community!) and there are limited number of hours in a day.

    At the end of the day, I love our livestreams and events like Battlerealm Brawl most because they allow us to connect with all of you in a much more engaging, live setting. I know not all of our forums-folks love the livestreams, and not everyone can fly to attend a live event, and that's okay. But it is our way of reaching out and showing the community we care. We care enough to not only communicate, but to connect and share a laugh and bond over a mutual love for this game and this community.

    Thank you for reading this borderline nonsensical monologue about how we care about you. It might not always be in the way you want, but we're humans and we're doing our best.

    TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).

    The response is appreciated, but we as a player base need more than "we have conversations on the back end". The U.S. Congress has loads of conversations, little to no actual good change coming from any of it, as an example(please do not spawn politics from this, just an example of a point I am making).

    There is no prior communication given from Kabam on these. If a mistake is made, and itd acknowledged, and the same mistake is being made over and over, what was the point of anything? If these posts are simply being read and not genuinely considered, and no real change is ever going to happen, then it's a moot point

    I don't doubt your enthusiasm and care for the community, but what's being said and what we see is two different things.
    OoooUuuu, don't think I've ever been compared to US Congress before. Not sure if I should take it as a compliment... (but almost definitely not)

    I think you may have missed the general sentiment intended with my post. It is this: We care about the community, we try to advocate for the masses, and just because you can't see it happening, doesn't mean it isn't.

    Furthermore, we understand we can't please everyone, and just because you're upset about something, doesn't mean the team is going to jump to cater to your specific needs - the needs of the many outweigh the needs of one.
    What I take from this, then, is that kabam doesn't care about Paragon - under players anymore then. For example, All content is catered for valiants now. Everyone else gets awful rewards, and over difficult content such as Winter of Woe. We can't do BGs in the victory track of all places because I'm going up against valiant decks with 24k PI minimums with 8-10 ascended 6* maxes, and 7* r3/r2s galore. How is that your intent for the NON Gladiators circuit meta? I don't understand how this caters to your masses, unless you are catering to giving valiants easy rewards and making life hell for anyone else who wants to genuinely have fun in the only real competitive mode we have (war doesn't really count imho, especially with the god awful tactics and lack of testing of such before release)

    Sentimentality only goes so far, and as much as ide love to accept it at face value, isn't that what we've been doing for years now? Behind the scenes talk/data can be whatever you want it to be, but the reality is valiants got it EASY. Easy VT matches, where they can rampantly destroy lower decks with pay to win new characters, side quests catered to people with giant decks of all ranked characters to be able to squish Winter of woe for examples... I don't dismiss their hard work or wallet to get to that point, but let other players enjoy the game...
    Guess what? If you don't suck and did at least one Necropolis path you too will be Valiant in a month or so once 8.4 drops! If you're not, well, keep building your deck like all of us did at one point 😉
  • acessentialacessential Member Posts: 8
    Kabam Jax said:

    "Do they even care...?"
    I would say: we do, absolutely. But I think we've been trying to make our case for that for a long time, and I don't think we'll ever convince everyone.

    TLDR - We care. We try to show it by: communicating when we're able, advocating for the community internally and connecting with you all through livestreams and events (and more).

    Great thanks, while you're here can you provide an update on the discussed compensation for last month's Incursions black screen issue?
  • WhiteKnightWhiteKnight Member Posts: 685 ★★★★
    Honestly Jax, the response is appreciated so much more than you would realise, even just an acknowledgement is more than most expected.

    But unfortunately, this just sounds like you and the other community managers see our complaints, push for change but those with the power to introduce this change don't care.

    You've seen our complaints of back to back war season node being unplayable, BG rewards not being updated for nearly a year and a half and still needing another month or two, stores not being updated and when they do the update is almost pointless ie incursions leaving 6* crystals at same price but just add a 7* crystal, loyalty just adding a new potion level and increase amount to spend but not reducing price of potions or anything else, BG store adding valiant offers but leaving Paragon untouched.

    Just a few things that can and need to be changed and I honestly have NO DOUBT you and the others are pushing this because it will only make your lives easier but it seems to be falling on death ears. You, Miike and the others are the front and take the blunt of the community frustration and that is unfair especially if you cannot push change, which is exactly how this sounds.
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  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,720 Guardian
    Catmanndo said:

    If they care and want to make us happy, then fix the problems…
    Inputs and ai are trash on my iPad Pro, it might work great for other devices, but I experience unreliable controls in a game that 100% relies on precision controls.
    The ai makes it far less fun than it has the potential to be, same with these node choices.
    The defensive champs will eventually see more counters over time, but my immediate concerns are inputs and ai…
    I’m a spender, but I’m not spending on a broken product.

    So are you saying you agree with the OP, that Kabam doesn't do anything to show they care about the playerbase when it comes to the content, game modes, and monetization of the game? Or are you saying that the only way to show they care about the playerbase is to fix your specific complaints, and if they don't address your specific complaints that is proof they don't care about the entire playerbase?

    Imagine someone telling you that you only care what they think if you do what they say. What would your reaction to that statement be? I know what mine would be.
  • GaborrrrrGaborrrrr Member Posts: 28
    Actions speak louder than words… it’s clear Kabam wants money which they can get from 1% who they cater content for. Everyone else can get lost… “time is not a relevant resource” = creating a fun game is not the goal, well congrats Kabam in this you have succeeded!!
  • RoggamRoggam Member Posts: 131
    Jax for Senate!
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,129 ★★★★★
    Gaborrrrr said:

    Actions speak louder than words… it’s clear Kabam wants money which they can get from 1% who they cater content for. Everyone else can get lost… “time is not a relevant resource” = creating a fun game is not the goal, well congrats Kabam in this you have succeeded!!

    I didn't think anyone was going to have a worse take than OP but I'm pretty sure you just exceeded it.
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