Shocker MASSIVE nerf

Hey @Kabam Miike can we know why the big nerf to shocker wasn't announced or posted anywhere? I love the champion and taked him to max level, now there is a lot of fights like red skull or maestro that he can't take anymore

Comments

Emilia90

So is this confirmed to be intentional? I have an r2 shocker and a big reason I took him up was to have another maestro counter. Idk if I’d rank him down at r2 but to those who have him r3 like the post above mine it’s incredibly unfair. I think RDTs would be deserved.
Yes, it is 100% intentional that she should have never worked for the Maestro.
Was this in the patchnotes/mentioned anywhere? It seems like everyone was unaware of this fix and I think they should’ve said this somewhere
It was a live fix that happened last Friday. Didn't need the client to be updated so not hot fix but will be on the patch notes of the may update.

Ah I see. I think they should’ve communicated this properly and it does suck for Shocker fans. I know it didn’t say that he countered glance anywhere, but I kinda assumed he somehow bypassed it from all the videos on it. I think RDT’s are warranted (though he’s still a great champ). Are the devs willing to budge on that?

PIKESTAIN

i wouldn't have ranked him if i knew he was like this. a r2 isn't exactly cheap, can we get shocker specific rankdown tickets? i know people will say it's a change to the mechanics and unrelated to shocker specifically, which is true, but this probably affects him the most?

what do we do now?

Agreed. As the owner of a R3, this stings.

dannyrotten

So is this confirmed to be intentional? I have an r2 shocker and a big reason I took him up was to have another maestro counter. Idk if I’d rank him down at r2 but to those who have him r3 like the post above mine it’s incredibly unfair. I think RDTs would be deserved.
Yes, it is 100% intentional that she should have never worked for the Maestro.
Was this in the patchnotes/mentioned anywhere? It seems like everyone was unaware of this fix and I think they should’ve said this somewhere
It was a live fix that happened last Friday. Didn't need the client to be updated so not hot fix but will be on the patch notes of the may update.
So you’re saying this is official and there’s no issues? Pardon my naivety but are you representing kabam? Didn’t see it in your bio. Pardon if I missed it

I am a forum guardian and don't officially represent kabam, but I do talk with the devs a lot and share insights of conversations there with y'all to help shed light on situations like this.

Thanks for that. About the other part? Final? No issues?

Nemesis_17

So is this confirmed to be intentional? I have an r2 shocker and a big reason I took him up was to have another maestro counter. Idk if I’d rank him down at r2 but to those who have him r3 like the post above mine it’s incredibly unfair. I think RDTs would be deserved.
Yes, it is 100% intentional that she should have never worked for the Maestro.
That’s a big L. Even if it was unintentional why not just let it be. He was by no means game breaking it just added an extra layer of utility to his kit that you can’t find elsewhere. Also why wait so damn long to change it?
It sounds like it wasn't Shocker that was changed, but the mechanics of glancing that were changed and Shocker is just the most obvious example. If that's the case, they can't just "let it be" because such bugs will have all sorts of downstream problems if left unchecked.

Maybe that’s the case, but if so they should:
1: Communicate ahead of time before more people rank him up while unaware of the change, and
2: Supply RDTs as this is a disadvantage for shocker.

Even though Shocker wasn’t directly changed, his impact in the contest was. I think it’d be a very poor justification to not give RDTs if they decide to use that as a reason.

And I understand that he’s still an amazing champ post-nerf but in a competitive game mode like battlegrounds, every minor difference matters. I spent days trying to decide to rank up shocker or guardian and ultimately went with shocker, a big part of that being because he counters maestro. The nerf changes that, and thus part of the reason I ranked him.

BigBlueOx

Why has there never been any communication about this interaction being bugged? Shocker has been out for a year, Maestro 5 months…. Shocker being a Maestro counter has been discussed on many many streams with CCP members…. But nothing was ever said… just poor form on this.

BeastDad

Shocker has been out for a year, Maestro 5 months…. Shocker being a Maestro counter has been discussed on many many streams with CCP members….

That was mistake #1 right there...

jcphillips7

Shocker has been out for a year, Maestro 5 months…. Shocker being a Maestro counter has been discussed on many many streams with CCP members….
That was mistake #1 right there...

I recall shortly after the Discord went live, there was a big conversation on there one evening with Fintech, DLL, and a few other people in Masters alliances and they were all discussing interactions and nodes and stuff, and Shocker and Glancing was brought up. I remember people saying “leave Shocker alone! Lol” etc, but also it being said that they can’t just expect them to leave it in if something wasn’t interacting properly.

I think that’s what started stirring the pot, and if this was a live fix last Friday, that evening’s conversation on Discord probably caused it.

Drago_von_Drago

This sounds like the Zemo/Kraven/Root scenario all over again. I’m all for fixing mechanics that aren’t working right but there needs to be better communication when it has this big of an impact on a champ.

Emilia90

Can anyone else not see Mike’s comment anymore?

BadMother2

What did Miike say?

Nemesis_17

Can anyone else not see Mike’s comment anymore?

Yes lol

Drago_von_Drago

Can anyone else not see Mike’s comment anymore?

Kabam employees sometimes comment and then delete it but the tag still stays on the thread title in the list. I’m guessing whoever it was needed to revise the response. At least we know it’s in their radar going into the weekend.

Emilia90

What did Miike say?

That there was a gap in communication, they pushed it out without telling us and they’re sorry, shocker is being monitored closely now but there’s no immediate plans for compensation:(

Nemesis_17

What did Miike say?

Was kinda long but tldr:
Miike and Jax didn’t know the change went live so they couldn’t warn us ahead of time.
Because it’s not a direct nerf to shocker there are no plans for compensation at this time.

Emilia90

What did Miike say?
Was kinda long but tldr:
Miike and Jax didn’t know the change went live so they couldn’t warn us ahead of time.
Because it’s not a direct nerf to shocker there are no plans for compensation at this time.

Personally feel like compensation is warranted. I don’t have shocker ranked up but I feel for everyone that does. I know he’s still good, but I can already see the change effect battlegrounds a lot. Faced multiple players who didn’t draft a maestro counter and took shocker and got cooked

Nemesis_17

What did Miike say?
Was kinda long but tldr:
Miike and Jax didn’t know the change went live so they couldn’t warn us ahead of time.
Because it’s not a direct nerf to shocker there are no plans for compensation at this time.
Personally feel like compensation is warranted. I don’t have shocker ranked up but I feel for everyone that does. I know he’s still good, but I can already see the change effect battlegrounds a lot. Faced multiple players who didn’t draft a maestro counter and took shocker and got cooked

RDTs are absolutely deserved. Being an unintentional mechanic or the fact that shocker directly was changed isn’t justification for no compensation. Now I at least know why they couldn’t communicate ahead of time, but it’s their mistake in their buggy game. Why should we be in the disadvantaged position for ranking up a champ that was shown to summoners differently?

Emilia90

What did Miike say?
Was kinda long but tldr:
Miike and Jax didn’t know the change went live so they couldn’t warn us ahead of time.
Because it’s not a direct nerf to shocker there are no plans for compensation at this time.
Personally feel like compensation is warranted. I don’t have shocker ranked up but I feel for everyone that does. I know he’s still good, but I can already see the change effect battlegrounds a lot. Faced multiple players who didn’t draft a maestro counter and took shocker and got cooked
RDTs are absolutely deserved. Being an unintentional mechanic or the fact that shocker directly was changed isn’t justification for no compensation. Now I at least know why they couldn’t communicate ahead of time, but it’s their mistake in their buggy game. Why should we be in the disadvantaged position for ranking up a champ that was shown to summoners differently?

Agreed. I don’t know why he removed his comment but I think they should just give compensation for the lack of communication.

Nemesis_17

What did Miike say?
Was kinda long but tldr:
Miike and Jax didn’t know the change went live so they couldn’t warn us ahead of time.
Because it’s not a direct nerf to shocker there are no plans for compensation at this time.
Personally feel like compensation is warranted. I don’t have shocker ranked up but I feel for everyone that does. I know he’s still good, but I can already see the change effect battlegrounds a lot. Faced multiple players who didn’t draft a maestro counter and took shocker and got cooked
RDTs are absolutely deserved. Being an unintentional mechanic or the fact that shocker directly was changed isn’t justification for no compensation. Now I at least know why they couldn’t communicate ahead of time, but it’s their mistake in their buggy game. Why should we be in the disadvantaged position for ranking up a champ that was shown to summoners differently?
Agreed. I don’t know why he removed his comment but I think they should just give compensation for the lack of communication.

He also had a paragraph there saying that his heavy being affected by armor was basically false info. Which isn’t true since there’s literally screenshots on the first page of this thread showing that. Maybe he wanted to reword or fact check what he was gonna say with that which is completely fair to do imo.

Kabam Miike

Hey all,

I've spent a lot of today trying to track down exactly what happened and why.

First, I want to apologize for this fix going live without notice. We (Jax and I) were not aware of it, so we were not able to tell you about it before it happened. We've found the communications breakdown here and are working to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

This situation was caused by a Bug that went live late last year. This was not live when Shocker was released, or when he was going through his balance process. The gist of it is that glancing was measuring the opponent's attack too soon and was thus reducing it by too little if Champion's Attack rating was also being increased at the exact same time, which is the case with Shocker.

This was a bug fix that affected Glancing, and not a direct change to Shocker. It also does not affect Shocker's effectiveness against other Enemies. I know we've seen some folks talking about his damage changing against Champions with Armor Ups applied, and that should not be the case. We are keeping an eye out for that, but I think that this was a false flag.

I know that this affected Shocker directly, and there will be more conversations about him in the near future, but it is the end of the day on Friday, and it won't happen until early next week. I will be personally ensuring that we keep an eye on him, and especially his usage.

Once again, I am very sorry that this bug fix went out without any communication. That should not have happened, and we will work to ensure it doesn't happen again.

ahmynuts

What did Miike say?
Was kinda long but tldr:
Miike and Jax didn’t know the change went live so they couldn’t warn us ahead of time.
Because it’s not a direct nerf to shocker there are no plans for compensation at this time.
Personally feel like compensation is warranted. I don’t have shocker ranked up but I feel for everyone that does. I know he’s still good, but I can already see the change effect battlegrounds a lot. Faced multiple players who didn’t draft a maestro counter and took shocker and got cooked
RDTs are absolutely deserved. Being an unintentional mechanic or the fact that shocker directly was changed isn’t justification for no compensation. Now I at least know why they couldn’t communicate ahead of time, but it’s their mistake in their buggy game. Why should we be in the disadvantaged position for ranking up a champ that was shown to summoners differently?

This is a very rare case when I think at least a conversation about rdts should be happening. This is the second time shockers heavy damage has been changed since his first debut. First the change from the deep dive damage that got some people and this one that hurts alot more.

Nemesis_17

Well the part about no compensation at the moment was removed. I think that’s the correct play👍

Nemesis_17

What did Miike say?
Was kinda long but tldr:
Miike and Jax didn’t know the change went live so they couldn’t warn us ahead of time.
Because it’s not a direct nerf to shocker there are no plans for compensation at this time.
Personally feel like compensation is warranted. I don’t have shocker ranked up but I feel for everyone that does. I know he’s still good, but I can already see the change effect battlegrounds a lot. Faced multiple players who didn’t draft a maestro counter and took shocker and got cooked
RDTs are absolutely deserved. Being an unintentional mechanic or the fact that shocker directly was changed isn’t justification for no compensation. Now I at least know why they couldn’t communicate ahead of time, but it’s their mistake in their buggy game. Why should we be in the disadvantaged position for ranking up a champ that was shown to summoners differently?
This is a very rare case when I think at least a conversation about rdts should be happening. This is the second time shockers heavy damage has been changed since his first debut. First the change from the deep dive damage that got some people and this one that hurts alot more.

Yeah I remember that. I obviously didn’t have shocker at the time so I didn’t really pay attention to what happened then. I remember people saying his damage was lowered, but then his buff increased the damage so I basically forgot about it. This is entirely different though

SlayerOfGods

Was this bug even on the Trello board? Ever?

BlackPhøenix448

i wouldn't have ranked him if i knew he was like this. a r2 isn't exactly cheap, can we get shocker specific rankdown tickets? i know people will say it's a change to the mechanics and unrelated to shocker specifically, which is true, but this probably affects him the most?

what do we do now?
Agreed. As the owner of a R3, this stings.

Dude yeah I own an r3 Shocker. Seriously Kabam

Emilia90

Well the part about no compensation at the moment was removed. I think that’s the correct play👍

Agreed. I think that would be in bad taste and hopefully whatever discussions they have next week lead to compensation, especially for the people who ranked him as a 7* specifically for this

I think they’ve been on a roll recently and this would be a weird hill to die on

dannyrotten

I feel like this lack of communication on their end is a broken record. Something changes, they apologize and say they’ll fix the lack of communication, and it repeats itself. Shocker is THE counter to glancing (and specifically maestro in bg) and we’ve all spent our resources to rank him up with this in mind.

The repeating systematic lack of communication is the biggest issue in my opinion. The players pay the bills here. Give us the option to rank him down. We’ll see how many actually do. If it’s restricted to just shocker, what harm in issuing RDTs?

DNA3000

So is this confirmed to be intentional? I have an r2 shocker and a big reason I took him up was to have another maestro counter. Idk if I’d rank him down at r2 but to those who have him r3 like the post above mine it’s incredibly unfair. I think RDTs would be deserved.
Yes, it is 100% intentional that she should have never worked for the Maestro.
That’s a big L. Even if it was unintentional why not just let it be. He was by no means game breaking it just added an extra layer of utility to his kit that you can’t find elsewhere. Also why wait so damn long to change it?
It sounds like it wasn't Shocker that was changed, but the mechanics of glancing that were changed and Shocker is just the most obvious example. If that's the case, they can't just "let it be" because such bugs will have all sorts of downstream problems if left unchecked.
Maybe that’s the case, but if so they should:
1: Communicate ahead of time before more people rank him up while unaware of the change, and
2: Supply RDTs as this is a disadvantage for shocker.

Even though Shocker wasn’t directly changed, his impact in the contest was. I think it’d be a very poor justification to not give RDTs if they decide to use that as a reason.

And I understand that he’s still an amazing champ post-nerf but in a competitive game mode like battlegrounds, every minor difference matters. I spent days trying to decide to rank up shocker or guardian and ultimately went with shocker, a big part of that being because he counters maestro. The nerf changes that, and thus part of the reason I ranked him.

Perhaps. While thinking about the mechanics this bug fix seems completely obvious, most players do not understand all of the ways the mechanics work and judge by observation rather than mechanical fidelity. As this is a subtle interaction (its not like a champion started bleeding bleed immune champs which anyone not brain dead should understand is a bug, this is a much more complex interaction) and given the timing of when the bug was introduced and then resolved, this should have been better communicated and I think given the specific way this general bug affects specific champions some kind of compensation for those affected is at least fair game for discussion. I'm not generally supportive of RDTs every time a bug fix happens, and I'm not sure if I would rubber stamp RDTs here, but the circumstances here seem atypical enough for such things to a least be on the table.

monkeys

Hey all,

I've spent a lot of today trying to track down exactly what happened and why.

First, I want to apologize for this fix going live without notice. We (Jax and I) were not aware of it, so we were not able to tell you about it before it happened. We've found the communications breakdown here and are working to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

.....

Once again, I am very sorry that this bug fix went out without any communication. That should not have happened, and we will work to ensure it doesn't happen again.

It is refreshing to get a straightforward apology about this happening without proper communication. However, the frequent times when changes were made without proper communication has eroded my trust in Kabam.

It is concerning that earlier in this thread the person saying it will just be in the May patch notes it's supposed to be an acceptable response. Such a situation is just another example to players of Kansas being able to change champs/interactions without apparent regard to the impact on how players have utilized previous resources into a champ.

I'm just glad I hadn't ranked up my 7* shocker yet. I hope with the angst over the weekend, Kabam comes back next week to make it right for those players who did rank him up already.

Nemesis_17

So is this confirmed to be intentional? I have an r2 shocker and a big reason I took him up was to have another maestro counter. Idk if I’d rank him down at r2 but to those who have him r3 like the post above mine it’s incredibly unfair. I think RDTs would be deserved.
Yes, it is 100% intentional that she should have never worked for the Maestro.
That’s a big L. Even if it was unintentional why not just let it be. He was by no means game breaking it just added an extra layer of utility to his kit that you can’t find elsewhere. Also why wait so damn long to change it?
It sounds like it wasn't Shocker that was changed, but the mechanics of glancing that were changed and Shocker is just the most obvious example. If that's the case, they can't just "let it be" because such bugs will have all sorts of downstream problems if left unchecked.
Maybe that’s the case, but if so they should:
1: Communicate ahead of time before more people rank him up while unaware of the change, and
2: Supply RDTs as this is a disadvantage for shocker.

Even though Shocker wasn’t directly changed, his impact in the contest was. I think it’d be a very poor justification to not give RDTs if they decide to use that as a reason.

And I understand that he’s still an amazing champ post-nerf but in a competitive game mode like battlegrounds, every minor difference matters. I spent days trying to decide to rank up shocker or guardian and ultimately went with shocker, a big part of that being because he counters maestro. The nerf changes that, and thus part of the reason I ranked him.
Perhaps. While thinking about the mechanics this bug fix seems completely obvious, most players do not understand all of the ways the mechanics work and judge by observation rather than mechanical fidelity. As this is a subtle interaction (its not like a champion started bleeding bleed immune champs which anyone not brain dead should understand is a bug, this is a much more complex interaction) and given the timing of when the bug was introduced and then resolved, this should have been better communicated and I think given the specific way this general bug affects specific champions some kind of compensation for those affected is at least fair game for discussion. I'm not generally supportive of RDTs every time a bug fix happens, and I'm not sure if I would rubber stamp RDTs here, but the circumstances here seem atypical enough for such things to a least be on the table.

I will absolutely admit that I don’t know the ins and outs of how the coding works, and what starts different bugs. So I can understand why maybe it is a problem that really needs to be fixed to avoid further issues later. I also now know that there was miscommunication of some sort which led to us receiving no warning. An unfortunate mistake, but not an intentional one so I won’t hold that against them.

Due to this, giving out RDTs would be a great way to apologize to the community on a bug that is their mistake. I think in this case they’re most definitely warranted. Shocker countering glancing was a one of a kind mechanic that couldn’t be found elsewhere. I can’t speak for everyone but this was a huge selling point for me when ranking him. Without this, he’s another good tech that ends fights in sp1 to sp2 and doesn’t crit. Sure he’s not a bad champ that’s still great, but I can find that elsewhere. The very mechanic that made him unique is what’s being removed, which is why I think RDTs should be given.

EdisonLaw

Hey all,

I've spent a lot of today trying to track down exactly what happened and why.

First, I want to apologize for this fix going live without notice. We (Jax and I) were not aware of it, so we were not able to tell you about it before it happened. We've found the communications breakdown here and are working to ensure that it doesn't happen again.

This situation was caused by a Bug that went live late last year. This was not live when Shocker was released, or when he was going through his balance process. The gist of it is that glancing was measuring the opponent's attack too soon and was thus reducing it by too little if Champion's Attack rating was also being increased at the exact same time, which is the case with Shocker.

This was a bug fix that affected Glancing, and not a direct change to Shocker. It also does not affect Shocker's effectiveness against other Enemies. I know we've seen some folks talking about his damage changing against Champions with Armor Ups applied, and that should not be the case. We are keeping an eye out for that, but I think that this was a false flag.

I know that this affected Shocker directly, and there will be more conversations about him in the near future, but it is the end of the day on Friday, and it won't happen until early next week. I will be personally ensuring that we keep an eye on him, and especially his usage.

Once again, I am very sorry that this bug fix went out without any communication. That should not have happened, and we will work to ensure it doesn't happen again.

So will this be undone or will we be provided with rank down tickets?