Shouldn't Void Technically Be Cosmic?

Was just thinking about this. I know Sentry got his powers by a Super Soldier Serum but the Void is kind of a Cosmic Entity (cosmic power and power scale at the very least). So kind of like how Phoenix Jean Grey is Cosmic even though Jean Grey normally is just a Mutant.

Anyone else think about this as well? I am not saying it should be changed... just found it interesting how it would make more sense to have Void be Cosmic (to me at least).

Comments

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Svain

Don't know a ton about sentry or void, but the little research I've done, void is just the split personality of sentry. Phoenix got her power from the cosmic entity the Phoenix force that possessed Jean Grey. Void is just the evil side of sentry. So should still be science.

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Acanthus

Void has literally nothing to do with cosmic

Romario26

Tell em! @Acanthus

Acanthus

Romario26 wrote: »

Tell em! @Acanthus

Lol. How you doing wanker?

DNA3000

chev327fox wrote: »

Was just thinking about this. I know Sentry got his powers by a Super Soldier Serum but the Void is kind of a Cosmic Entity (cosmic power and power scale at the very least). So kind of like how Phoenix Jean Grey is Cosmic even though Jean Grey normally is just a Mutant.

Anyone else think about this as well? I am not saying it should be changed... just found it interesting how it would make more sense to have Void be Cosmic (to me at least).

The Void was created by Robert Reynold's subconscious. As he is a creation of the Sentry's powers and the Sentry got his powers from an amped up super soldier serum, the Void is also technically a product of a science experiment.

The Phoenix is a cosmic entity. Jean Grey is a mutant with mutant psychokinetic powers. When Jean Grey became the Phoenix she was essentially inhabited by a cosmic being. The Phoenix and the Phoenix force powers have nothing to do with Jean Grey's mutation or mutant abilities per se.

Evangelionlovr

Hubris_hater wrote: »

PeterQuill wrote: »

yeah but this is MCOC where classes dont make sense.

Or maybe a lot of characters are very ambiguous as to what class they fit into, and they also try to have roughly the same number of champs in each class to help the game

Maybe thats the reason?

Are you hired by Kabam? I see you defending them at every turn.

chev327fox

Jestress wrote: »

Science class is hurting enough as it is... don't need any reasons to shrink it.

Again, as I said in the OP, I am not arguing or asking for it to be changed... it was just a thought I had and felt would make a good discussion.

DNA3000 wrote: »

chev327fox wrote: »

Was just thinking about this. I know Sentry got his powers by a Super Soldier Serum but the Void is kind of a Cosmic Entity (cosmic power and power scale at the very least). So kind of like how Phoenix Jean Grey is Cosmic even though Jean Grey normally is just a Mutant.

Anyone else think about this as well? I am not saying it should be changed... just found it interesting how it would make more sense to have Void be Cosmic (to me at least).

The Void was created by Robert Reynold's subconscious. As he is a creation of the Sentry's powers and the Sentry got his powers from an amped up super soldier serum, the Void is also technically a product of a science experiment.

The Phoenix is a cosmic entity. Jean Grey is a mutant with mutant psychokinetic powers. When Jean Grey became the Phoenix she was essentially inhabited by a cosmic being. The Phoenix and the Phoenix force powers have nothing to do with Jean Grey's mutation or mutant abilities per se.

Yes I know it was born of him (or that is what is thought in the comics) and I know that the Phoenix force is a separate entity (but I also feel Void while connected to Sentry/Reynolds is its own separate entity when in that form)... but in the wiki as well as his stories Void is described as "more of a force than a person", a "force" that is thought to be infinitely powerful. So cosmic seems to fit the Void better since once he is the Void he is technically a Cosmic level being.

Again was just a thought I had. Not saying I am right and they are wrong (or I am right and you are wrong ect... just thought it was interesting is all).

I am curious... how do you see Superior Iron Man? He is cosmic just because of an armor change (not an entity). Should he still be tech based on your way of viewing it?

ALSO this is what Void should look like (but I understand the re-skin made it infinitely easier to put in 2 new characters instead of just one):

latest?cb=20100323214724

BitterSteel

Evangelionlovr wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

PeterQuill wrote: »

yeah but this is MCOC where classes dont make sense.

Or maybe a lot of characters are very ambiguous as to what class they fit into, and they also try to have roughly the same number of champs in each class to help the game

Maybe thats the reason?

Are you hired by Kabam? I see you defending them at every turn.

Have you met GW?

DNA3000

chev327fox wrote: »

Jestress wrote: »

Science class is hurting enough as it is... don't need any reasons to shrink it.

Again, as I said in the OP, I am not arguing or asking for it to be changed... it was just a thought I had and felt would make a good discussion.

DNA3000 wrote: »

chev327fox wrote: »

Was just thinking about this. I know Sentry got his powers by a Super Soldier Serum but the Void is kind of a Cosmic Entity (cosmic power and power scale at the very least). So kind of like how Phoenix Jean Grey is Cosmic even though Jean Grey normally is just a Mutant.

Anyone else think about this as well? I am not saying it should be changed... just found it interesting how it would make more sense to have Void be Cosmic (to me at least).

The Void was created by Robert Reynold's subconscious. As he is a creation of the Sentry's powers and the Sentry got his powers from an amped up super soldier serum, the Void is also technically a product of a science experiment.

The Phoenix is a cosmic entity. Jean Grey is a mutant with mutant psychokinetic powers. When Jean Grey became the Phoenix she was essentially inhabited by a cosmic being. The Phoenix and the Phoenix force powers have nothing to do with Jean Grey's mutation or mutant abilities per se.

Yes I know it was born of him (or that is what is thought in the comics) and I know that the Phoenix force is a separate entity (but I also feel Void while connected to Sentry/Reynolds is its own separate entity when in that form)... but in the wiki as well as his stories Void is described as "more of a force than a person", a "force" that is thought to be infinitely powerful. So cosmic seems to fit the Void better since once he is the Void he is technically a Cosmic level being.

In MCOC "cosmic" is not synonymous with "cosmic level" as in cosmically powerful. It refers to a kind of origin. The little Asgardian kid that shines Thor's shoes? He's cosmic.

The definitions of the origins in MCOC are loose, but "cosmic" is roughly synonymous with "alien" in MCOC. If the source of your special combat abilities as MCOC represents them is alien in nature, you're more likely to be cosmic. When more than one origin can apply, the character designer picks a specific viewpoint to select one. So Venom is cosmic because it is an alien being fused with a human and granting him special abilities. Venom is not a "cosmic level being." Symbiote Spiderman is cosmic even though both science and cosmic apply to that combined being. The focus of Sym Spiderman, a somewhat arbitrarily focus, is on the way Symbiote Spiderman is different from normal Spiderman, and that is through the abilities the symbiote grants him. On the other hand, Agent Venom is skill, because again both skill and cosmic apply but in this case the designer decided to focus on the military training of the core character first, which is enhanced by the symbiote.

I am curious... how do you see Superior Iron Man? He is cosmic just because of an armor change (not an entity). Should he still be tech based on your way of viewing it?

"Alien technology" can go either way. In this case the designer decided to emphasize the fact that Superior Iron Man's "technology" is heavily influenced by and supposedly a derivative of the alien symbiote's biology. So I'm fine with the character designer picking cosmic for that champion class.

chev327fox

DNA3000 wrote: »

In MCOC "cosmic" is not synonymous with "cosmic level" as in cosmically powerful. It refers to a kind of origin. The little Asgardian kid that shines Thor's shoes? He's cosmic.

The definitions of the origins in MCOC are loose, but "cosmic" is roughly synonymous with "alien" in MCOC. If the source of your special combat abilities as MCOC represents them is alien in nature, you're more likely to be cosmic. When more than one origin can apply, the character designer picks a specific viewpoint to select one. So Venom is cosmic because it is an alien being fused with a human and granting him special abilities. Venom is not a "cosmic level being." Symbiote Spiderman is cosmic even though both science and cosmic apply to that combined being. The focus of Sym Spiderman, a somewhat arbitrarily focus, is on the way Symbiote Spiderman is different from normal Spiderman, and that is through the abilities the symbiote grants him. On the other hand, Agent Venom is skill, because again both skill and cosmic apply but in this case the designer decided to focus on the military training of the core character first, which is enhanced by the symbiote.

I am pretty sure it is kind of a mixture of both power and alien. For someone who freely admits the looseness of the definitions you speak with confident certainty about the things you have opinions on (I am sure you can see how this is not logical).

Also there are a lot of aliens that are not Cosmic (on the flip side Black Bolt is Human.... even if he is a very powerful "inHUMAN", point is he is not alien)... so it clearly has to do with their power level, and power abilities, as well. Kind of a mixture of both. But again as you rightfully said it is pretty loose. I just really feel the need to point how odd it is for you to say it could not be when there are tons of examples of champs that do not fit your view of the rules of who is what and why

Again I could care less if Void is Science or Cosmic... I just felt like there was a case to be made that he could fit there since Void is always described as a infinitely powerful primal force. That's all

DNA3000 wrote: »

"Alien technology" can go either way. In this case the designer decided to emphasize the fact that Superior Iron Man's "technology" is heavily influenced by and supposedly a derivative of the alien symbiote's biology. So I'm fine with the character designer picking cosmic for that champion class.

So "In MCOC "cosmic" is not synonymous with "cosmic level" as in cosmically powerful. It refers to a kind of origin." but alien armor/tech is an exception to this rule? Seems a bit random... feels like a massive reach to keep your initial theory intact. Also Rocket Raccoon, Loki, Howard the Duck and many more would be cosmic and the new Ragnarok Thor should be Cosmic as well (and none of them are so this shows that is simply not the case.. they are all based heavily on their power/attack types).

I am not saying on way or the other one those (or on Void)... just showing again that the way you see that rule does not apply in most ways... if at all. Really it is a loose system, as you rightfully said, that really only focuses on which fits each one loosely enough and possibly working around needed categories or in Thor Ragnarok's case to differentiate him from base Thor more.

wSWeaponX

... He's not of Cosmic origin...

chev327fox

Would have been amazing if they modeled this for Void:

394?cb=20151015234302

wSWeaponX wrote: »

... He's not of Cosmic origin...

Can you please explain exactly what do you mean by Cosmic Origin? Also can you explain how that applies to a earthling like Black Bolt (seems to apply to his "powers" and not his "origin"... kind of like I am thinking of Void that is said to be more of a "force" with "limitless power" that could "devour the entire universe")? I know he is an "inHUMAN" but he is still human an from earth as far as I know (there may be something I am missing though).

Also I feel like Void was born of the supremely powerful Sentry... but Void was born a Cosmic level being IMO. But that is just a perspective and is pretty subjective.

Kestrelle

Ask Doc Ock

Voidsentry

Since Sentry is my favorite comic character and I've read all of his comics, I can answer that question: When Sentry drank the enhanced version of the super soldier serum, he gained the ability to warp reality on a molecular level. But since he is a paranoid schizophrenic, he sees an evil monster and his mind subconsciously creates that monster in form of the Void. So the Void is just a psionic construct of the Sentry. However, there were times where Sentry believed he himself was the Void, so he was transforming into the Void. If the Void is a separate entity or the Sentry himself, depends on Sentrys mental state.

Kabam also got it wrong in the story by making the Void seem more powerful. Sentry is more powerful and has defeated the Void time and time again, but he usually holds back much more, so the Void appears more devastating.

In terms of cosmic level power.... Sentry dwarves it. He is powerful enough to break the Silver Surfer in half. I personally place him above Thanos and below Odin.

Username1583

chev327fox wrote: »

Was just thinking about this. I know Sentry got his powers by a Super Soldier Serum but the Void is kind of a Cosmic Entity (cosmic power and power scale at the very least). So kind of like how Phoenix Jean Grey is Cosmic even though Jean Grey normally is just a Mutant.

Anyone else think about this as well? I am not saying it should be changed... just found it interesting how it would make more sense to have Void be Cosmic (to me at least).

Nope I think it has more sense to be science because of his powers origins. I hope to get him since they have made Sentry so bad. He looks to be quite good I think.

A_Noob_Is1

Void is a subconscious manifestation of sentry, much like how hulk is a manifestation of bruce banners rage and hatred.

DNA3000

chev327fox wrote: »

I am pretty sure it is kind of a mixture of both power and alien. For someone who freely admits the looseness of the definitions you speak with confident certainty about the things you have opinions on (I am sure you can see how this is not logical).

I am pointing out how MCOC has assigned the classes to the champions. It is my judgment that the most likely explanation for their decisions is that they assign cosmic to champions they view has having combat abilities related to an alien (as in space alien) nature. When you say you are "pretty sure" it is a mixture of power and alien, is that because that's what you want it to be, or because you have examples in the game that are consistent with that position?

Also there are a lot of aliens that are not Cosmic (on the flip side Black Bolt is Human.... even if he is a very powerful "inHUMAN", point is he is not alien)... so it clearly has to do with their power level, and power abilities, as well. Kind of a mixture of both.

The Inhumans are the product of alien genetic engineering by the Kree. This has been retconned by Marvel a couple of times, but at the moment the Inhuman race is essentially a Kree experiment. In fact, they were intended to be a race of weapons to be used by the Kree against the Skrulls. They are not humans with special abilities.

As far as I can see, every champion classified as Cosmic is either a member of an alien race (Asgardians, Kree, whatever Groot is), gets their powers from an alien or cosmic being (Phoenix, Symbiote Spiderman), or gets their powers from other alien sources (Captain Marvel, Superior Iron Man). The Inhumans are a species that is a product of alien genetic engineering (Kree manipulated genetic material from the Eternals, themselves a product of Celestial genetic engineering). You could call them an alien race or the product of an alien experiment.

chev327fox

@DNA3000 - It's a bit funny becasue I too feel you are saying things becasue you want it to be that way (or becasue you would rather not concede that it is a bit subjective even where you have kinda made definitive statements that it isn't... but I understand it is hard to walk things back and even harder to always speak/discuss in a way that leaves the possibility open for you to be wrong). I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the strictness of how they are categorized. In any case I appreciate the discussion

Voidsentry wrote: »

Since Sentry is my favorite comic character and I've read all of his comics, I can answer that question: When Sentry drank the enhanced version of the super soldier serum, he gained the ability to warp reality on a molecular level. But since he is a paranoid schizophrenic, he sees an evil monster and his mind subconsciously creates that monster in form of the Void. So the Void is just a psionic construct of the Sentry. However, there were times where Sentry believed he himself was the Void, so he was transforming into the Void. If the Void is a separate entity or the Sentry himself, depends on Sentrys mental state.

Kabam also got it wrong in the story by making the Void seem more powerful. Sentry is more powerful and has defeated the Void time and time again, but he usually holds back much more, so the Void appears more devastating.

In terms of cosmic level power.... Sentry dwarves it. He is powerful enough to break the Silver Surfer in half. I personally place him above Thanos and below Odin.

Thank for the info

That is interesting. The comics I have seen him in are the ones where he rips Ares in half (and one other story as well). They made it sound like Void was in a league of its own and more of a force then an entity. But I am sure like all heroes/characters there are many different versions of them over the many years.

DNA3000

chev327fox wrote: »

@DNA3000 - It's a bit funny becasue I too feel you are saying things becasue you want it to be that way (or becasue you would rather not concede that it is a bit subjective even where you have kinda made definitive statements that it isn't... but I understand it is hard to walk things back and even harder to always speak/discuss in a way that leaves the possibility open for you to be wrong). I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the strictness of how they are categorized. In any case I appreciate the discussion

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. Please explain to me how the statement "every champion classed as cosmic has is either an alien or has a strong alien connection" is subjective. Is that because you think whether something is an alien species is debatable? Because if so, that's not a nit I really care to pick.

Sungj

chev327fox wrote: »

Yes I know it was born of him (or that is what is thought in the comics) and I know that the Phoenix force is a separate entity (but I also feel Void while connected to Sentry/Reynolds is its own separate entity when in that form)... but in the wiki as well as his stories Void is described as "more of a force than a person", a "force" that is thought to be infinitely powerful. So cosmic seems to fit the Void better since once he is the Void he is technically a Cosmic level being.

Again was just a thought I had. Not saying I am right and they are wrong (or I am right and you are wrong ect... just thought it was interesting is all).

I am curious... how do you see Superior Iron Man? He is cosmic just because of an armor change (not an entity). Should he still be tech based on your way of viewing it?

ALSO this is what Void should look like (but I understand the re-skin made it infinitely easier to put in 2 new characters instead of just one):

Power level has nothing to do with being cosmic, if he has nothing of a cosmic nature to him he shouldn't be cosmic. Just because he is a "force" doesn't mean he is a cosmic force the two aren't interchangeable.

Superior Iron man is cosmic because the new suit is made with biological building blocks of symbiotes like venom who are cosmic entities.

Inquisitive

The Cosmic Class derives of champions who come from the cosmos. This implies any place that is not earth basically.

Black Bolt and Medusa are considered cosmic beings because they inhabited the Moon. It has very little to do with the Kree aspect. If this were the case, Quake would also be Cosmic. However, she is considered Science based on her overall skill set as a hacker and the fact she was born and living on earth during her transformation after being exposed to the Terrigen Mist. She wasn't overtaken by any entity, rather just had her powers awakened essentially.

Gamora, Ronan, Hyperion, Thor and Angela are all Cosmic beings since they aren't from earth. SIM, Carnage and Venom may have human hosts, but that's exactly what they are... hosts. Similar to the Phoenix Force, where the Mutant Jean Grey is exposed to a Cosmic entity and becomes the host for an extraterrestrial. In these cases, the extraterrestrial may not necessarily have control over the host, but they exist within them. Some of them can completely takeover the host or share an identity with the host, becoming a part of them without removing the actual host's mental capacity to think and act for themselves.

Now, while the Void can technically leave earth on a whim and cruise through the cosmos, he would only be considered a dual origin of "Cosmic" on another planet in the universe. On those planets, he could be considered a Cosmic. However, by earthlings, he will never be considered Cosmic because he's from earth and his alternative personality, if you will, was an unexpected side-effect of the Serum created on earth.

You could argue possibly for Nebula and Karnak (who is semi-dual class as it stands), since they are technically Cosmic beings. But as someone stated above, they draw inspiration based on the overall theme of the champion. So while certain champs could fit in multiple classes, I wouldn't say Void is one of those options. Science seems ideal and fits in with his storyline very well.