Deep Dive: The Leader

EdisonLaw

https://youtu.be/k3g8DQsf0zk?si=nGk22O2J6xmCuhRM

Thoughts? Post them here

Comments

EdisonLaw

My first thoughts: another champion who turns off masteries and ignores class disadvantage

Yodabolt21

It’s getting really old to have to worry about masteries with every new champ.

ShashankGupta

My first thoughts: another champion who turns off masteries and ignores class disadvantage

My attention goes towards sp3 lol
What is that 66k degen damage and you can get more with that 3 indefinite degen passive

Mysterio

My first impressions:
1) His damage seems to be lacking and not fast at all. He will be a terrible option for Battlegrounds offense.
2) His utility is neat, basically just a buffed up Sandman with his regen & power control.
3) Correct me if I am wrong but the masteries being disabled is a good thing here right? It stops the attacker from taking damage when their willpower regen would be reversed? Maybe I am missing something.

Overall he looks like a more complicated and difficult to manage version of Sandman while also not countering Unstoppable like Sandman and having less damage than Sandman. Also he is not a cool Spider-man villain like me or Sandman.

captain_rogers

There is zero reason for hus debuffs to shut purify/cleanse. Stop messing with class relationships tbh. If he is going to shut purify, atleast make it only against non skill champs.

It's a shame power dissolve only works when ability power is reduced to zero. He can't deal power dissolve damage to serpent.

Honestly I expected some way for him to place regen and power gain effects on opponent and reverse them. Really a missed opportunity.

He looks ugly

Nemesis_17

Disappointed that they’re doubling down on ignoring class advantage and shutting off masteries

Darkraw346

There is zero reason for hus debuffs to shut purify/cleanse. Stop messing with class relationships tbh. If he is going to shut purify, atleast make it only against non skill champs.

It's a shame power dissolve only works when ability power is reduced to zero. He can't deal power dissolve damage to serpent.

Honestly I expected some way for him to place regen and power gain effects on opponent and reverse them. Really a missed opportunity.

He looks ugly

I must be the only one happy hes shutting down Skills

EdisonLaw

My first impressions:
1) His damage seems to be lacking and not fast at all. He will be a terrible option for Battlegrounds offense.
2) His utility is neat, basically just a buffed up Sandman with his regen & power control.
3) Correct me if I am wrong but the masteries being disabled is a good thing here right? It stops the attacker from taking damage when their willpower regen would be reversed? Maybe I am missing something.

Overall he looks like a more complicated and difficult to manage version of Sandman while also not countering Unstoppable like Sandman and having less damage than Sandman. Also he is not a cool Spider-man villain like me or Sandman.

He should be decent for attack against mystics, power gain champs like Hype, regen champs like Gorr, etc. His big damage however is the sp3

EdisonLaw

There is zero reason for hus debuffs to shut purify/cleanse. Stop messing with class relationships tbh. If he is going to shut purify, atleast make it only against non skill champs.

It's a shame power dissolve only works when ability power is reduced to zero. He can't deal power dissolve damage to serpent.

Honestly I expected some way for him to place regen and power gain effects on opponent and reverse them. Really a missed opportunity.

He looks ugly

I think power dissolve deals damage when their power is drained, not when it hits zero.

captain_rogers

There is zero reason for hus debuffs to shut purify/cleanse. Stop messing with class relationships tbh. If he is going to shut purify, atleast make it only against non skill champs.

It's a shame power dissolve only works when ability power is reduced to zero. He can't deal power dissolve damage to serpent.

Honestly I expected some way for him to place regen and power gain effects on opponent and reverse them. Really a missed opportunity.

He looks ugly
I think power dissolve deals damage when their power is drained, not when it hits zero.

I wonder how it interact with serpent.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Man I really dislike these silly "floor/trap" mechanics ...

ShashankGupta

My first impressions:
1) His damage seems to be lacking and not fast at all. He will be a terrible option for Battlegrounds offense.
2) His utility is neat, basically just a buffed up Sandman with his regen & power control.
3) Correct me if I am wrong but the masteries being disabled is a good thing here right? It stops the attacker from taking damage when their willpower regen would be reversed? Maybe I am missing something.

Overall he looks like a more complicated and difficult to manage version of Sandman while also not countering Unstoppable like Sandman and having less damage than Sandman. Also he is not a cool Spider-man villain like me or Sandman.

That one disagree has been given by me
Your first point is totally wrong in bg he will probably a nuke with the sp3 rotation when you will use sp3 opponent would probably lost so much hp because of willpower reverse
Your second point is right
Your third point is also right

Your last words are also wrong he is not that difficult to use just need to keep opponent above the green door and FYI sandman counters unstoppable with the sp2 decelerate debuff

Fit_Fun9329

Man I really dislike these silly "floor/trap" mechanics ...

Yes. As soon as I see those mechanics at a champ - i am out

Emilia90

I don’t understand the mastery complaints here. Wouldn’t he cook everyone by reversing WP healing? Also he does look like he could be good for bg offense so I disagree there

Mysterio

My first impressions:
1) His damage seems to be lacking and not fast at all. He will be a terrible option for Battlegrounds offense.
2) His utility is neat, basically just a buffed up Sandman with his regen & power control.
3) Correct me if I am wrong but the masteries being disabled is a good thing here right? It stops the attacker from taking damage when their willpower regen would be reversed? Maybe I am missing something.

Overall he looks like a more complicated and difficult to manage version of Sandman while also not countering Unstoppable like Sandman and having less damage than Sandman. Also he is not a cool Spider-man villain like me or Sandman.
That one disagree has been given by me
Your first point is totally wrong in bg he will probably a nuke with the sp3 rotation when you will use sp3 opponent would probably lost so much hp because of willpower reverse
Your second point is right
Your third point is also right

Your last words are also wrong he is not that difficult to use just need to keep opponent above the green door and FYI sandman counters unstoppable with the sp2 decelerate debuff

I'll wait to see his usefulness in BG, see potential but also risk.
I know Sandman counters unstoppable. That's what I meant with the final part.

ItsClobberinTime

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

EdisonLaw

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

The green door does make them more aggressive and allow for intercepts, so the ramp may be faster than usual, but we’ll see

Emilia90

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.

Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao

ItsClobberinTime

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.
The green door does make them more aggressive and allow for intercepts, so the ramp may be faster than usual, but we’ll see

Yes but that won't make the fight quicker cause you'll also be constantly baiting sp1s, that's the main reason Punk is so slow and he sucks. You're so busy baiting sp1s what could've been a 40 sec fight turns into 60.
Leader might be slightly quicker since he shuts down MD completely but I doubt he'll be fast enough even then, we'll see though.

ItsClobberinTime

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.
Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao

Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.

Wicket329

No matter how many times we go through this, the community insists on judging champs before we get our hands on them.

Take a beat, y’all. Once content creators start actually playing them and we start seeing where they fit, then we’ll have enough information to begin forming opinions. Right now we can see a bunch of individual parts, but not necessarily the whole pictures.

ItsClobberinTime

No matter how many times we go through this, the community insists on judging champs before we get our hands on them.

Take a beat, y’all. Once content creators start actually playing them and we start seeing where they fit, then we’ll have enough information to begin forming opinions. Right now we can see a bunch of individual parts, but not necessarily the whole pictures.

He just asked for first impressions though, nobody's saying he will definitely be trash for sure. Just doesn't look that impressive at first glance is all.

EdisonLaw

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.
Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.

So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?

ItsClobberinTime

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.
Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?

It's not meant to be used on WP, it's meant to be used on actual regen effects.

ShashankGupta

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.
Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?

That willpower off is only on defence but don't forget if opponent has regen effects and willpower and they had which mostly people had greater recovery mastery you will reduce the healing further more
So I am guessing in many scenarios you don't even need to go for sp3
But my worry is one mistake of pushing him to sp3 and you are dead lol 💀

captain_rogers

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.
Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?
That willpower off is only on defence but don't forget if opponent has regen effects and willpower and they had which mostly people had greater recovery mastery you will reduce the healing further more
So I am guessing in many scenarios you don't even need to go for sp3
But my worry is one mistake of pushing him to sp3 and you are dead lol 💀

Pushing to sp3 is death against most defenders tbh

EdisonLaw

No matter how many times we go through this, the community insists on judging champs before we get our hands on them.

Take a beat, y’all. Once content creators start actually playing them and we start seeing where they fit, then we’ll have enough information to begin forming opinions. Right now we can see a bunch of individual parts, but not necessarily the whole pictures.

So far he does look good though from a first glance. Great regen and power gain counter

ShashankGupta

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.
Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?
That willpower off is only on defence but don't forget if opponent has regen effects and willpower and they had which mostly people had greater recovery mastery you will reduce the healing further more
So I am guessing in many scenarios you don't even need to go for sp3
But my worry is one mistake of pushing him to sp3 and you are dead lol 💀
Pushing to sp3 is death against most defenders tbh

Yes but sometimes you get saved by abilities like titania indestructible or war indestructible boost heimdall and many more my point is that degen is scary probably the biggest base dot damage in the game

EdisonLaw

Also this is kinda unrelated but I can’t find the champion spotlights on the actual MCOC website, are they not there yet?

ItsClobberinTime

First impressions, if you have to go for sp3 for matchups with no regen or power gain, he will probably be a slower worse Titania cause you'll be wasting a ton of time baiting sp1s so I don't see why anyone would even use him. For me it'll all depend on how well he can cook Serpent, if he's a solid counter I'll take it, if he's not then this is just another L champ this year and I won't be popping any Titans when the pool gets updated.

As for the wp mastery getting shut down and purify/cleanse not working I don't really care, he doesn't seem like an overpowered defender anyways. I just wanna know how fast he will be in BGs.
Yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking. I do want Patriot a lot so I’ll probably hold my shards anyway. Leader could have potential tho

As for defense, exactly this. He looks a little annoying for sure, but nothing too difficult. I wish people looked at the context of the mastery being shut down. Here, it’s a good thing because if you ran champs with WP against him otherwise, he’d kill you so fast lmao
Yeah and Patriot looks like he will need awakening so I'll most likely just go for the 6* r6 and sig 200 him.

Yeah it's funny that people are already complaining about WP being shut down lol you block a couple sp1s you casually start melting and his specials look hard to dex so this is definitely better.
So the sp1 vitality increases regen, but he already turns off willpower. How does this work?
That willpower off is only on defence but don't forget if opponent has regen effects and willpower and they had which mostly people had greater recovery mastery you will reduce the healing further more
So I am guessing in many scenarios you don't even need to go for sp3
But my worry is one mistake of pushing him to sp3 and you are dead lol 💀

In order to use the spectre the way you want to use it you'd have to remove the despair mastery which I'm pretty sure almost everyone has cause without it, a lot of science champs get absolutely ruined by WP.
If you don't remove Despair you will have 20 debuffs on them during most of the fight and because Despair is already shutting down WP 100% you won't be reversing any healing except when the vitality passive is up but it's only 25% potency you will probably be better of going for sp3 than spamming sp1 at that point.
I could be wrong though, it's very hard to tell if he'll be good or not cause a lot of masteries interact with his kit and it makes everything very confusing.