Dust and Ironheart Rebalance

So no changes for either. Fine. But typically that means we get a buff/tune up for another character. Is that just not happening now? Where’s the communication Kabam?

Comments

EdisonLaw

This is weird, you would think they want to sell early access bundles instead of making spending players second guess if its worthy or not.
The problem is the people who buy those early access bundles are whales who couldn't care less about the kits and just spend for the sake of spending, I know cause I have one of them in my alliance lol. He spends on every single new champ and r5 ascends them, he got both Sable and Arcade early access bundles and he r5 ascended Arcade even though he's completely and utterly useless on attack.
As long as so many people are willing to throw away their money on those bundles, they have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Unfortunate but it is what it is, we'll just have to shrug and move on for the rest of the year.

He's more likely using him on defense and not attack since he's slow on attack. And even then he’s not that difficult to fight. Annoying, yes but nowhere near Serpent or Bullseye

BigBlueOx

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves

Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024

Emilia90

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024

Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well

captain_rogers

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well

I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.

ahmynuts

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well
I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.

Dont let that one guy who thinks Luke Cage is ass see this

ItsClobberinTime

This is weird, you would think they want to sell early access bundles instead of making spending players second guess if its worthy or not.
The problem is the people who buy those early access bundles are whales who couldn't care less about the kits and just spend for the sake of spending, I know cause I have one of them in my alliance lol. He spends on every single new champ and r5 ascends them, he got both Sable and Arcade early access bundles and he r5 ascended Arcade even though he's completely and utterly useless on attack.
As long as so many people are willing to throw away their money on those bundles, they have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Unfortunate but it is what it is, we'll just have to shrug and move on for the rest of the year.
He's more likely using him on defense and not attack since he's slow on attack. And even then he’s not that difficult to fight. Annoying, yes but nowhere near Serpent or Bullseye

He's meh on defense too trust me lol unless he has a meta to supercharge him he's not a tough defender at all.

ItsClobberinTime

I predicted that they won’t change anything about these champs, they’ve laid off too many people responsible for this so we get nothing now in terms of rebalance or champion buffs. One buff per saga is LAUGHABLE considering Sagas are lazier than actual diverse monthly events. This Saga had the laziest side quest format possible.
Its not about them laying off people if u read the post there data came back they were doing fine simple as that seriously this thing of negativity of people being laid off happens all the times and yet doesnt effect anything

While I disagree with that guy about them laying people off, their excuse of "she's performing well" makes absolutely zero sense too. How would they even know how she's performing if almost nobody in Diamond and above is using her?
Instead of looking at how good she is in the depths of Bronze and Silver they should start looking at how often people use her in the higher leagues, if nobody is using her that means she's not that good and needs a buff cause if she was good people would be using her.

BigBlueOx

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well
I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.

Tbh… I can’t name a single 2024 attacker that’s better the Luke outside of maybe niche occasions

Emilia90

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well
I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.
Tbh… I can’t name a single 2024 attacker that’s better the Luke outside of maybe niche occasions

Nah White Tiger is fantastic and I’ll stand by her. She’s a goated attacker

Nemesis_17

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well
I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.
Tbh… I can’t name a single 2024 attacker that’s better the Luke outside of maybe niche occasions

Ehhh I wouldn’t go that far. White tiger and prowler are both better and even my dust hits quite a bit harder than Luke does. Negasonic might be debatably better but I wouldn’t say anyone else other than these 4 are.

StuntzTheCMMKid

I will be furious if they touch serpent. He is decent at best at attack, So he needs all his defensive prowesses.

I get it but I can’t rationalize leaving serpent as is on defense. His kill rate on defense is close to a 100% from what I’ve seen from other big players and my own experience. It’s not like bullseye where he trips people up, but there’s a lot of counters and I’ve also seen like 30 second takedowns of him with a few champs

I’m a huge DLL fan but Serpent is just such a mindblowingly stupid champ. Can’t dex when he has true focus, guaranteed block damage, immune to every power control other than steal I believe, damage reduction, power control reduction, long special attacks that make him further stall, insane power gain, cheat death, regen. Like who approved this? The more I think about him, the more frustrated I get

Instant burst reduction means you can’t really use hood or Ham effectively here, most power controllers are useless, most general champs are too slow or completely useless, and mystics are still unreliable or stalled. I think Chavez and Kush are his best counters and even they can be cooked by serpent because he’s just so annoying. Even if you play perfectly you get a guaranteed 7 second stall at the end and he can also fail neutralize
I mean, We had the same sentiment when photon, onslaught and bullseye were released and now they all were "fair". Give a few months and every new mystic champ will start to hard counter serpent.

Also We haven't had any mystic champ since serpent release, that's why he have limited counters. I rather see more champs countering him instead of nerfing him.

I'm a little biased here tho as I ranked him up solely for defense
I don’t think it’s the same thing though. Photon already had hard counters before she was out and despite turning off masteries, there’s ways to manage her and she isn’t immune to everything that exists. Same thing goes for onslaught and bullseye. While photon could already be nuked by CB, Mantis, Shang, Zemo, KP, and a few others by her time of release (and managed well and taken out by others like Hulkling and Starky with full health) there’s no hard serpent counters that even exist yet. Even his best counters aren’t the fastest of most reliable

I think people just needed to learn to dex onslaught and he can be nuked by anyone and bullseye is a frail dude despite being annoying to deal with so any bleed immune with good damage takes him well. I agree though, we haven’t had a single mystic and I’m willing to bet that Enchantress if she’s coming and Shathra will be hard serpent counters lmao. We’ll see though. From my experience figuring all the tough defenders, there’s nothing more limiting and punishing than serpent by miles. Like it’s a guaranteed loss unless you draft like 3 specific champs and even they can fail
Atleast serpent have 3 counters, When domino was released ,There wasn't a single hard counter. If I'm not wrong, The first champ who is immune to AAR and don't have any abilities whose chance to trigger is less thN 100% is Mysterio, Who was released like a year after domino. Time god bgs didn't exist at that time.

Serpent is definitely more annoying than other recent defenders, But as I said, as time goes by, Most mystics will start to counter him and he is more manageable.

Also I believe the only thing that makes him too tough in defense in his sig ability. Without the sig, He is not even top 5 defenders imo. So maybe a slight change like his death buff can be nullfied? Or death buff only heals and won't trigger power gain? I won't mind something like this. But they should tune his damage up if they plan to nerf his defenses.

Shuri is a good Serpent counter also

IlociaM

Only mid Champs allowed on 2024 lmao

BigBlueOx

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well
I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.
Tbh… I can’t name a single 2024 attacker that’s better the Luke outside of maybe niche occasions
Nah White Tiger is fantastic and I’ll stand by her. She’s a goated attacker

I thought about White Tiger, Prowler, and Dust… and I think those 3 may be debatable.

Actually Prowler I’d take over Luke. His kit has shown to be pretty flexible the more I see of it and use it myself. Dust and White Tiger need some match up help to compete with Luke’s damage throughput though. Both are reliably slower in general matches.

I remain unimpressed by Negasonic other than her gimmicky safety vs skill

Emilia90

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well
I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.
Tbh… I can’t name a single 2024 attacker that’s better the Luke outside of maybe niche occasions
Ehhh I wouldn’t go that far. White tiger and prowler are both better and even my dust hits quite a bit harder than Luke does. Negasonic might be debatably better but I wouldn’t say anyone else other than these 4 are.

Dust is a little on the slower side but I think she’s really cool and easily better than Luke. Fantastic utility and immunities, decent defender, and I’d expect that a r3 Dust closes out fights faster than a r3 Luke. But yeah those are good attackers for sure (Negasonic once again on the slower side but she’s good in skill matchups).

Destroyer would be goated if he ramped faster and I think Patriot and Leader have potential but we’ll see. I still doubt leader would be any good for battlegrounds though

Emilia90

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well
I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.
Tbh… I can’t name a single 2024 attacker that’s better the Luke outside of maybe niche occasions
Nah White Tiger is fantastic and I’ll stand by her. She’s a goated attacker
I thought about White Tiger, Prowler, and Dust… and I think those 3 may be debatable.

Actually Prowler I’d take over Luke. His kit has shown to be pretty flexible the more I see of it and use it myself. Dust and White Tiger need some match up help to compete with Luke’s damage throughput though. Both are reliably slower in general matches.

I remain unimpressed by Negasonic other than her gimmicky safety vs skill

Nah White Tiger is insanely fast. Trappy and JS Mcoc have great vids on her and she’s versatile and hits very hard. Even without the bleed she closes out fights fast and she can reliably nuke a ton of champs

I’ve seen r3 Luke stuff and he’s not as fast as Dust I think

ItsClobberinTime

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well
I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.
Tbh… I can’t name a single 2024 attacker that’s better the Luke outside of maybe niche occasions
Ehhh I wouldn’t go that far. White tiger and prowler are both better and even my dust hits quite a bit harder than Luke does. Negasonic might be debatably better but I wouldn’t say anyone else other than these 4 are.
Dust is a little on the slower side but I think she’s really cool and easily better than Luke. Fantastic utility and immunities, decent defender, and I’d expect that a r3 Dust closes out fights faster than a r3 Luke. But yeah those are good attackers for sure (Negasonic once again on the slower side but she’s good in skill matchups).

Destroyer would be goated if he ramped faster and I think Patriot and Leader have potential but we’ll see. I still doubt leader would be any good for battlegrounds though

I don't mean to be that guy that goes "actually 🤓" but there's both r3 Dust and Luke gameplay on YT and he's definitely faster. The thing with Dust is her rotation is sp2 sp1 spam no matter what rank she is, Luke's is sp1 spam too but he doesn't need the sp2 to start his ramp.he starts dealing damage immediately as he ramps up.

100% agree with Prowler and Wigra though.

Nemesis_17

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well
I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.
Tbh… I can’t name a single 2024 attacker that’s better the Luke outside of maybe niche occasions
Ehhh I wouldn’t go that far. White tiger and prowler are both better and even my dust hits quite a bit harder than Luke does. Negasonic might be debatably better but I wouldn’t say anyone else other than these 4 are.
Dust is a little on the slower side but I think she’s really cool and easily better than Luke. Fantastic utility and immunities, decent defender, and I’d expect that a r3 Dust closes out fights faster than a r3 Luke. But yeah those are good attackers for sure (Negasonic once again on the slower side but she’s good in skill matchups).

Destroyer would be goated if he ramped faster and I think Patriot and Leader have potential but we’ll see. I still doubt leader would be any good for battlegrounds though

Idk I’m probably biased I’ve just been really impressed with my dust on attack. I just used her against rol WS using a standard bgs rotation, baiting specials as if he could use an sp3, and it was a 45s kill. That was an r2 with cides, but I can tell you that without cides she can do the same thing to a 300k healthpool in bgs. I use her so much on defense that the only offensive fight I have with her is a 58s r1 attuma kill. However I spent around 10s trying to bait specials and I still had like 60-80k damage left in my rotation after he died.

I mostly agree with the rest tho. Destroyer is a sad one because he’s gonna fall off on defense once more ppl learn to dex his sp2. With his dupe you can’t maybe trap people into only using champs with buffs but that’s about it. And because of his lackluster performance on attack once he falls off as a defender he’s gonna fall off in general. Patriot will hopefully shine against science champs but I haven’t seen much of him so far. Leader is great in his niches but in most fights is too slow, and as a defender there’s a lot of champs who can still nuke him.

BigBlueOx

After the insanely awesome 2023 group of Champs, I’m just shocked that the design goals for 2024 seem so focused on mid-tier underwhelming champs with the exception of defenders… most of whom are wanted for their “fun” interactions that inspire rage rather than enjoyment
Even this year's buffs are so far better than the champs themselves
Agree. Red Skull and Mr. Sinister are far and away the best champs of 2024
Red Guardian too. SIM looks like he could hit very hard as well
I'll say even luke cage is better than most champs released this year.
Tbh… I can’t name a single 2024 attacker that’s better the Luke outside of maybe niche occasions
Ehhh I wouldn’t go that far. White tiger and prowler are both better and even my dust hits quite a bit harder than Luke does. Negasonic might be debatably better but I wouldn’t say anyone else other than these 4 are.
Dust is a little on the slower side but I think she’s really cool and easily better than Luke. Fantastic utility and immunities, decent defender, and I’d expect that a r3 Dust closes out fights faster than a r3 Luke. But yeah those are good attackers for sure (Negasonic once again on the slower side but she’s good in skill matchups).

Destroyer would be goated if he ramped faster and I think Patriot and Leader have potential but we’ll see. I still doubt leader would be any good for battlegrounds though

Destroyer encapsulates how I feel about 2024 attackers. He is so close to absolutely incredible but yet so far away. As he is there’s very little special about what he can do, but at the same time there’s something interesting about what he does. He needs a better interaction with buffs to be special. He plays those match ups for the most part as he plays matches where there are no buffs as there are very few champs and nodes that really hit his niche. If they balance him well though he is a dark horse for best attacker in 2024

Usagicassidy

Only mid Champs allowed on 2024 lmao

That BETTER not be the case come November...

Silhouette1742

Dust is primarily a defender and she’s been balanced in her role. Is she lacking offensively yes but most good defenders are. Ironheart on the other hand is primarily an attacker and her lack of defensive prowess is fine but she definitely needs a tune up offensively. My suggestion would be some sort of small amount of power gain to help quicken her rotation (something similar to guardian maybe) and make her prowess invalidation either more accessible (maybe on special hits too) or add something to her damage (damage burst or repulsor debuffs when removing a prowess)

SecondSkriller

I predicted that they won’t change anything about these champs, they’ve laid off too many people responsible for this so we get nothing now in terms of rebalance or champion buffs. One buff per saga is LAUGHABLE considering Sagas are lazier than actual diverse monthly events. This Saga had the laziest side quest format possible.
Its not about them laying off people if u read the post there data came back they were doing fine simple as that seriously this thing of negativity of people being laid off happens all the times and yet doesnt effect anything

Ironheart isn’t doing fine lol, she’s not competitive at all because she’s slow and stressful

ItsClobberinTime

Dust is primarily a defender and she’s been balanced in her role. Is she lacking offensively yes but most good defenders are. Ironheart on the other hand is primarily an attacker and her lack of defensive prowess is fine but she definitely needs a tune up offensively. My suggestion would be some sort of small amount of power gain to help quicken her rotation (something similar to guardian maybe) and make her prowess invalidation either more accessible (maybe on special hits too) or add something to her damage (damage burst or repulsor debuffs when removing a prowess)

It's already over, no point in suggesting any changes cause they don't care.

ItsClobberinTime

Dust is primarily a defender and she’s been balanced in her role. Is she lacking offensively yes but most good defenders are. Ironheart on the other hand is primarily an attacker and her lack of defensive prowess is fine but she definitely needs a tune up offensively. My suggestion would be some sort of small amount of power gain to help quicken her rotation (something similar to guardian maybe) and make her prowess invalidation either more accessible (maybe on special hits too) or add something to her damage (damage burst or repulsor debuffs when removing a prowess)

Forums posting my reply twice -_-

Nemesis_17

Dust is primarily a defender and she’s been balanced in her role. Is she lacking offensively yes but most good defenders

See that’s the funny thing, dust is supposed to be more of an attacker than a defender. These are her champion attributes:

Defender strength is literally her lowest attribute lol. I do agree that as an overall champ she doesn’t really need a tune up, but I was hoping she would get a little something to help her reach these stats.

ItsClobberinTime

I predicted that they won’t change anything about these champs, they’ve laid off too many people responsible for this so we get nothing now in terms of rebalance or champion buffs. One buff per saga is LAUGHABLE considering Sagas are lazier than actual diverse monthly events. This Saga had the laziest side quest format possible.
Its not about them laying off people if u read the post there data came back they were doing fine simple as that seriously this thing of negativity of people being laid off happens all the times and yet doesnt effect anything
Ironheart isn’t doing fine lol, she’s not competitive at all because she’s slow and stressful

As someone with a 7* r2 awakened, can confirm this is the case.

NONYABIZZ

Iron heart got nothing, now I'm worried about Prowler's medium debuff going unchanged and he'll never be able to fight against top mutant defenders
There's no hope for him, And negasonic as well.
It’s hilarious to me that Negasonic at max ramp incinerates (r2 7*) does as much damage as Kate with one coldsnap. And her method of refresh is way more annoying too. Negasonic has some good utility and I get some use out of her but her damage is so mid it’s hilarious

Mid??? ITS TERRIBLE!!! She has one of the worst damage we've ever seen in recent years excluding QUEEN SABLE

BigBlueOx

Yeah sadly this went as expected IMO the rebalancing team for new champs seems to be headed for the same destination as the balance team for old champs. More and more these updates seem to result in “we did a good job, nothing to change”. It’s almost a copy and paste. On to the next one I guess…

If neither Destroyer nor Serpent gets significant changes though I think we can call Time of Death on the rebalance program ☠️

NONYABIZZ

Only mid Champs allowed on 2024 lmao
That BETTER not be the case come November...

The GOAT Dazzler better not be mid on attack
I've wanted her for the longest time and I'm willing to spend on her if she's good. I was willing to spend on negasonic too till I saw that trash damage output from the deep dive. Kabam cannot be serious

ItsClobberinTime

Yeah sadly this went as expected IMO the rebalancing team for new champs seems to be headed for the same destination as the balance team for old champs. More and more these updates seem to result in “we did a good job, nothing to change”. It’s almost a copy and paste. On to the next one I guess…

If neither Destroyer nor Serpent gets significant changes though I think we can call Time of Death on the rebalance program ☠️

Might as well start lighting up those memorial candles then cause Destroyer is not getting buffed lol if he did it would actually piss me off even more cause Ironheart needed it more than Destroyer. Destroyer already has insane damage output and it's 100% consistent unlike Ironheart's, only problem is he's too slow.
Serpent will probably get some minor nerf like Bullseye but that's it, he'll still be annoying and busted on defense.

Emilia90

Yeah sadly this went as expected IMO the rebalancing team for new champs seems to be headed for the same destination as the balance team for old champs. More and more these updates seem to result in “we did a good job, nothing to change”. It’s almost a copy and paste. On to the next one I guess…

If neither Destroyer nor Serpent gets significant changes though I think we can call Time of Death on the rebalance program ☠️
Might as well start lighting up those memorial candles then cause Destroyer is not getting buffed lol if he did it would actually piss me off even more cause Ironheart needed it more than Destroyer. Destroyer already has insane damage output and it's 100% consistent unlike Ironheart's, only problem is he's too slow.
Serpent will probably get some minor nerf like Bullseye but that's it, he'll still be annoying and busted on defense.

Destroyer buff would be the plot twist of the century