Negasonic Teenage Warhead - Please tell me I'm doing some wrong or missing something
Fryday
Member Posts: 955 ★★★★
So here are 3 fights on the same Def (Cheelit Paragon Gauntlet)
All at the same ranking
NTS - Class Advantage, 5th try, and best time.
Try extra hard to keep the Incinerate on Cheelit.
Parry, 4 Medium, Medium again and then focus on Lights, rush the just under SP2. Throw an SP1, then continue with Lights, bate out Cheelit SP, by the time I get the SP2 most of the Incinerate have gone.
Venom - first try - 4* Venom Relic R1, a good source of Venom damage is his Bleed debuff, which Cheelit Cleanse
Just play normal
Silk - Class Disadvantage, and also rely on applying Debuff, which Cheelit Cleanse.
Just play normal
With this fight, in theory NTW get the most advantage, because she does not have to worry about the Unstoppable Node and can Parry freely. While both Venom and Silk can not rely of Parry and Cheelit is constantly Unblockable.
So please tell me that I got something wrong with NTW, because based on this fights result this can't be right or balance.
NTW can not be "best" at skill counter, when in a perfect fight set up for her with the right Def, an Class Disadvantage champ out do her in both speed and heath.
From testing this fight out, I came to realise something, the lack on damage (whether it is direct or DOT) have an cascading effect on the whole fights.
As while in theory NTW should be more "safe" to use, in practice she is not, because her damage output is so low, the Def take more hits, which mean more Power for the Def, which mean more SPs, and more time wasted trying to bate out SPs. The longer the fight the more chane for mistake to happen.
So out of these 3 fights NTW is the one that end up taking the most hits even though she could block/Parry all of Cheelit hits, while both Venom and Silk have to play intercept as Cheelit was constantly Unblockable.
NTW also are Bleed immune in this fight while, both Silk and Venom are not, and yet they still finish the fight with more health than NTW.
I understand that not all champ have the same "Power Budget" in design, and I'm not expecting every champs to be OP or nuke. However I would like to think that they should at least be relevant (meta).
Ironheart was not sold as a class destroyer of any kind and even then lot of the players in the community feel like she should have gotten a slight buff. While NTW sales pitch (design concept) was that she is the "best" Skill Class counter (apart maybe one or two). However a champ can't be a "best" if players would rather pick other champs (even class disadvantage one) to do the fight that this "best" champ meant to counter perfectly.
I really do hope the Kabam isn't counting how many R3 of these champs (Ironheart and NTW) as an indication how well the community like these champs. Right now both Ironheart & NTW have to be at R3 to punch down, that is never a balance champ.
Again not asking for Nuke or OP, just relevant, just so players actually want to and can use they new champs for something.
All at the same ranking
NTS - Class Advantage, 5th try, and best time.
Try extra hard to keep the Incinerate on Cheelit.
Parry, 4 Medium, Medium again and then focus on Lights, rush the just under SP2. Throw an SP1, then continue with Lights, bate out Cheelit SP, by the time I get the SP2 most of the Incinerate have gone.
Venom - first try - 4* Venom Relic R1, a good source of Venom damage is his Bleed debuff, which Cheelit Cleanse
Just play normal
Silk - Class Disadvantage, and also rely on applying Debuff, which Cheelit Cleanse.
Just play normal
With this fight, in theory NTW get the most advantage, because she does not have to worry about the Unstoppable Node and can Parry freely. While both Venom and Silk can not rely of Parry and Cheelit is constantly Unblockable.
So please tell me that I got something wrong with NTW, because based on this fights result this can't be right or balance.
NTW can not be "best" at skill counter, when in a perfect fight set up for her with the right Def, an Class Disadvantage champ out do her in both speed and heath.
From testing this fight out, I came to realise something, the lack on damage (whether it is direct or DOT) have an cascading effect on the whole fights.
As while in theory NTW should be more "safe" to use, in practice she is not, because her damage output is so low, the Def take more hits, which mean more Power for the Def, which mean more SPs, and more time wasted trying to bate out SPs. The longer the fight the more chane for mistake to happen.
So out of these 3 fights NTW is the one that end up taking the most hits even though she could block/Parry all of Cheelit hits, while both Venom and Silk have to play intercept as Cheelit was constantly Unblockable.
NTW also are Bleed immune in this fight while, both Silk and Venom are not, and yet they still finish the fight with more health than NTW.
I understand that not all champ have the same "Power Budget" in design, and I'm not expecting every champs to be OP or nuke. However I would like to think that they should at least be relevant (meta).
Ironheart was not sold as a class destroyer of any kind and even then lot of the players in the community feel like she should have gotten a slight buff. While NTW sales pitch (design concept) was that she is the "best" Skill Class counter (apart maybe one or two). However a champ can't be a "best" if players would rather pick other champs (even class disadvantage one) to do the fight that this "best" champ meant to counter perfectly.
I really do hope the Kabam isn't counting how many R3 of these champs (Ironheart and NTW) as an indication how well the community like these champs. Right now both Ironheart & NTW have to be at R3 to punch down, that is never a balance champ.
Again not asking for Nuke or OP, just relevant, just so players actually want to and can use they new champs for something.
13
Comments
The balance team most likely still won't touch her
The numbers from the balance team are always baffling to me because she’s a 3.5/5 in damage according to them. It’s not great but for comparison Ironheart has a 3/5 in damage and hits way harder despite her kit issues
Don't know why she gets so much hate. She is a niche champ and would be broken with kate bishop dps. She is not super fast but she handles alot of stuff.
My 6*r5 asc needs 1.50 min. with that -60% damage.
Hi @Z3ro_ô ,
If you read my post you may noticed that I never asked or expected NTW to be OP or Nuke (let alone being at Kate level, who many would consider to be the best Skill champ). I just expect a new champ that was sold as the "best" Skill counter to at least be relevant. There are many ways Kabam can better balance her than just damage, having longer Incinerate duration or pause would be helpful too. Also Incinerate immune would make sense too.
I understand the Node have 60% damage without debuff but 1 Dex also apply 3 Debuffs, which I also do with NTW. Also please note that the other 2 champs I tried out also rely on debuffs for their damages, which Cheelit Cleanse, so their damaged are also reduced quite a bit, and they doesn't have the Class advantage bonus.
My example of fight not only show how long it take for NTW to take down a fight that she should do well on, but that other champs that shouldn't do well against this fight including Class Disadvantage one still finish the fight much fast (also x2.5 faster) that NTW with more health. You clearly are a much better NTW player than me and even then as you said your fight came to 1.50, which is still slower than Venon and Silk (which with you skills I'm sure you would also finish faster than my times).
I actually really want to like NTW, I like the Mutant class and would like to have more new relevant Mutant champs, so when NTW was announced I was very excited about her, I can see her potential value, but current was she is, when players would be better off to go into a fight with class disadvantage than use NTW then in my opinion something is not balance with the champ.
She is just not a 30 second bg nuke more for longer fights.
I did the LOL redhulk, old man logan an elektra fights. Every fight in about 3.10 min.
It's not that bad.
I'd like it if she gets a buff and did more damage, but there's no need to pretend she's hitting like cyclops.
No boosts or synergies. I just had a few shots to play around the damage reduction.
That is really great to see and yes, you are definitely a higher player than I'm. So firstly, I would be much appreciated if you could share of your tips on how to achieve that time, as I have tried many times and didn't get close to that.
However, secondly, as you can see, with me being a less skilled player than you, both Venom and Silk fight was still quicker than 1.26. I'm sure with your skill you could do both Venom and Silk fight even faster than my times.
So the end point is still the same. With Class Advantage and all the "niches" benefits that NTW have, she is still slower than other champs that would theoretically get hampered by the Def and Node.
So in a fight where I should be reaching out to NTW, because she meant to be the Skill class counter, I still find much more success with other champs, even class disadvantaged one. That can't be balance right?
I hope kabam gives her a little tune up because she is very safe to use against the majority of annoying skill defenders.
Apart from BG, time is irrelevant if it's only a matter of seconds. (I'll leave out Master AW)
That's why I don't understand why time is seemingly the only reason to say she is bad.
As I said, your picture is a little misleading because of the big time difference.
If there had been a korg or attuma it would have been a completely different picture.
Like i said she is more for some bigger hp pools to ramp her incinerates fully up.