I see where this thread is going, completely towards the wrong direction. Some people are saying Serpent doesn't need a Nerf at all, yeah I'd they think they are MSD level of players then completely fine for them, but not everyone here is as skilled, and considering you're not allowed to strike the opponent between their specials due to power gain, and even take lots of damage through block as u can't dex them, it's worse than what we have been seeing as nightmarish defenders previously
If serpent doesn't get a desirable Nerf, i am blaming the part of the community who are fine with him in his current state
With every great defender, follows a counter or two. We'll be fine with Serpent as he is.
There is a difference between “tough defender” and this. He reduces the impact of almost all damage sources, pretty much ignores ability power reduction, and if you get him down you have to survive an immortality timer that’s pretty hard to fail, and gives even more broken power gain.
Oh and for fun you MUST take chip damage from the removal of a mastery.
His counters would need to be equally broken to be a hard counter, and tbh they’d probably end up making Hercules look like Groot and break the game.
This is how Kabam operates. Release a tough defender, then a few months later release a counter, which you will feel a need to acquire.
If the issue is BGs, then ban Serpent. If it is AW then you have a team of people to produce a counter, plus boosts and such.
No nerf needed.
I feel like the point is completely lost on you. When it comes to tough defenders, Kabam had at least designed them in a way where skill can still let you win the fight. Player complained at first with champions like Peni Parker and Hulkling all the way to Photon, Onslaught and Bullseye and then learned how to cleanly dispatch them using their skills in a tough matchup.
The Serpent is the first defender since Magik's buff to not fall in thr above category, however his case is worse as Magik's buff was designed in an era of very simple champion design. To brush The Serpent's defensive impact off as just being how Kabam operates is disingenuous to the issues of his design.
To start with, The Serpent forces you to take damage through the block with Specials. You can't dex his Special Attacks unless you get rid of his True Focus buff with a well timed Stagger or Neutralise effect. Nullify won't even matter as you can't remove it during the special and he'll gain it back when he launches another Special Attack. Also he's immune to Fate Seal so you're stuck to Neutralise or Stagger. If you can't get rid of the True Focus, you're punished even further with Serpent's Pierce bonus and passive Attack increases.
So bring a Stagger or Neutralise champ right?
That's just half of the trouble. The Serpent is immensely tanky, having really high health and resistances and even reduces the potency of incoming damage effects. To top it all off, once you've managed to work around that massive bulk, Serpent will basically become unkillable for 8 seconds while gaining health back and loads of power. As if that wasn't enough, it effectively IGNORES neutralise and will trigger anyway even if you bring an ideal champ.
Oh yeah, back to the power. Serpent gains so much power and will frequently launch his Special Attacks. Combined with the fact that you can't even dex his Special Attacks unless you specifically bring a Stagger or Neutralise champ where Neutralise champs are still punished with an unavoidable Death Immunity, Stagger doesn't seem that friendly of a counter consider that Serpent gains a lot of buffs and can heavily screw you up if you are unlucky with the staggers and his special timing.
Every other defender allows for a way for the player to work around their mechanics with varying degrees of skill. The Serpent is Hyperion, Man-Thing and Photon in one champion. The amount of annoying abilities he has and they way they interact makes fighting him not a battle of skill, but a battle of stupid luck even if you bring an ideal counter.
The Serpent has been out for 5 months now and is a very popular champion. If there was a skillful way to dispatch him like every single other defender, it would have been found.
With the way Kabam has designed defenders, The Serpent is an outliar and for the health of the game I hope he is nerfed before he invokes a new status quo of unavoidable punishment champions.
I think this is a perfect explanation. I hate that some people are bringing up champs like Onslaught, Photon, and Bullseye when people can take them all out fairly easily at this point. Serpent is an outlier in that he hasn’t become any easier from when he was released
Before photon even came out, there were champs that could nuke her in 30-40 seconds (Hulkling, Mantis, CB, Shang, Adam) and since then people have learned to manage her even better. Her whole thing is don’t parry, don’t take too many blocked hits, manage pure light. No massive resistances or immense power gain that makes her unbelievably annoying (good defender still ofc but very manageable now)
Onslaught’s neuroshock damage can’t be prevented by anyone but his whole difficulty lies in the special dexing and your ability to intercept. So many champs can nuke him at this point, but not only can they nuke him, you can heal to full by purifying neuroshocks and letting crushed give you some WP. At this point everyone knows that there are a lot of ways to handle him and you’re not really starved for a specific counter. Even some metal champs can nuke him before taking too much damage (Starky, CGR, FAM)
For Serpent no amount of practicing or managing anything will get you out of the fight as quickly as any of these other defenders. You need to draft a specific perfect counter, you need to have decent AI, you need to hope he doesn’t sp3 during death immunity, you’re stalled guaranteed for 8 seconds, you can’t dex the sp1 or 2, and he’s just so tanky
Not to mention that the last 2 GC nodes have been hell when it comes to managing serpent. Archaos and rich get richer meant that his best mystic counters were extremely neutered because he’d gain power way too fast and would go unblockable. This meta extends buffs and debuffs by 150%, meaning his death immunity now lasts for 10 eons and you’re guaranteed to waste a lot of time. Any defender that does this shouldn’t be allowed. Bullseye, Photon, or Onslaught don’t do this and are very manageable at this point
So most of us agree that Serpent needs a nerf, but on the other hand does Destroyer need a buff?
It would be nice, but I don’t expect it to happen. These are his champ attributes: I think he accurately represents all of them, except maybe damage. His damage is solid, it just takes a lot of time to access. Once you access it, I think it accurately depicts 4/5, but getting there is a slow process.
I think what would be great is if he only required 75 or maybe 80 charges to obtain his power gain, but then they remove the line on defense where he gains 15 charges per sp1 hit instead of 10. This would lower his required ramp to start his damage, and leave him mostly the same on defense, since you can still bait 2 sp1s against him freely, but the 3rd one will trigger power gain.
Considering ironheart didn’t get a tune up I really don’t expect anything, but this is what I’d love him to get.
With every great defender, follows a counter or two. We'll be fine with Serpent as he is.
There is a difference between “tough defender” and this. He reduces the impact of almost all damage sources, pretty much ignores ability power reduction, and if you get him down you have to survive an immortality timer that’s pretty hard to fail, and gives even more broken power gain.
Oh and for fun you MUST take chip damage from the removal of a mastery.
His counters would need to be equally broken to be a hard counter, and tbh they’d probably end up making Hercules look like Groot and break the game.
This is how Kabam operates. Release a tough defender, then a few months later release a counter, which you will feel a need to acquire.
If the issue is BGs, then ban Serpent. If it is AW then you have a team of people to produce a counter, plus boosts and such.
No nerf needed.
I feel like the point is completely lost on you. When it comes to tough defenders, Kabam had at least designed them in a way where skill can still let you win the fight. Player complained at first with champions like Peni Parker and Hulkling all the way to Photon, Onslaught and Bullseye and then learned how to cleanly dispatch them using their skills in a tough matchup.
The Serpent is the first defender since Magik's buff to not fall in thr above category, however his case is worse as Magik's buff was designed in an era of very simple champion design. To brush The Serpent's defensive impact off as just being how Kabam operates is disingenuous to the issues of his design.
To start with, The Serpent forces you to take damage through the block with Specials. You can't dex his Special Attacks unless you get rid of his True Focus buff with a well timed Stagger or Neutralise effect. Nullify won't even matter as you can't remove it during the special and he'll gain it back when he launches another Special Attack. Also he's immune to Fate Seal so you're stuck to Neutralise or Stagger. If you can't get rid of the True Focus, you're punished even further with Serpent's Pierce bonus and passive Attack increases.
So bring a Stagger or Neutralise champ right?
That's just half of the trouble. The Serpent is immensely tanky, having really high health and resistances and even reduces the potency of incoming damage effects. To top it all off, once you've managed to work around that massive bulk, Serpent will basically become unkillable for 8 seconds while gaining health back and loads of power. As if that wasn't enough, it effectively IGNORES neutralise and will trigger anyway even if you bring an ideal champ.
Oh yeah, back to the power. Serpent gains so much power and will frequently launch his Special Attacks. Combined with the fact that you can't even dex his Special Attacks unless you specifically bring a Stagger or Neutralise champ where Neutralise champs are still punished with an unavoidable Death Immunity, Stagger doesn't seem that friendly of a counter consider that Serpent gains a lot of buffs and can heavily screw you up if you are unlucky with the staggers and his special timing.
Every other defender allows for a way for the player to work around their mechanics with varying degrees of skill. The Serpent is Hyperion, Man-Thing and Photon in one champion. The amount of annoying abilities he has and they way they interact makes fighting him not a battle of skill, but a battle of stupid luck even if you bring an ideal counter.
The Serpent has been out for 5 months now and is a very popular champion. If there was a skillful way to dispatch him like every single other defender, it would have been found.
With the way Kabam has designed defenders, The Serpent is an outliar and for the health of the game I hope he is nerfed before he invokes a new status quo of unavoidable punishment champions.
The combo of Hype, Man Thing and Photon lol. You freaking nailed it dude.
Looking back, he's closer to a combo of Hype, Immortal Hulk and Photon, but with a small part of Man-Thing's damage reduction schtick.
Still not a healthy combination. I really hope Kabam doesn't lose the plot with any newer defenders.
With every great defender, follows a counter or two. We'll be fine with Serpent as he is.
There is a difference between “tough defender” and this. He reduces the impact of almost all damage sources, pretty much ignores ability power reduction, and if you get him down you have to survive an immortality timer that’s pretty hard to fail, and gives even more broken power gain.
Oh and for fun you MUST take chip damage from the removal of a mastery.
His counters would need to be equally broken to be a hard counter, and tbh they’d probably end up making Hercules look like Groot and break the game.
This is how Kabam operates. Release a tough defender, then a few months later release a counter, which you will feel a need to acquire.
If the issue is BGs, then ban Serpent. If it is AW then you have a team of people to produce a counter, plus boosts and such.
No nerf needed.
I feel like the point is completely lost on you. When it comes to tough defenders, Kabam had at least designed them in a way where skill can still let you win the fight. Player complained at first with champions like Peni Parker and Hulkling all the way to Photon, Onslaught and Bullseye and then learned how to cleanly dispatch them using their skills in a tough matchup.
The Serpent is the first defender since Magik's buff to not fall in thr above category, however his case is worse as Magik's buff was designed in an era of very simple champion design. To brush The Serpent's defensive impact off as just being how Kabam operates is disingenuous to the issues of his design.
To start with, The Serpent forces you to take damage through the block with Specials. You can't dex his Special Attacks unless you get rid of his True Focus buff with a well timed Stagger or Neutralise effect. Nullify won't even matter as you can't remove it during the special and he'll gain it back when he launches another Special Attack. Also he's immune to Fate Seal so you're stuck to Neutralise or Stagger. If you can't get rid of the True Focus, you're punished even further with Serpent's Pierce bonus and passive Attack increases.
So bring a Stagger or Neutralise champ right?
That's just half of the trouble. The Serpent is immensely tanky, having really high health and resistances and even reduces the potency of incoming damage effects. To top it all off, once you've managed to work around that massive bulk, Serpent will basically become unkillable for 8 seconds while gaining health back and loads of power. As if that wasn't enough, it effectively IGNORES neutralise and will trigger anyway even if you bring an ideal champ.
Oh yeah, back to the power. Serpent gains so much power and will frequently launch his Special Attacks. Combined with the fact that you can't even dex his Special Attacks unless you specifically bring a Stagger or Neutralise champ where Neutralise champs are still punished with an unavoidable Death Immunity, Stagger doesn't seem that friendly of a counter consider that Serpent gains a lot of buffs and can heavily screw you up if you are unlucky with the staggers and his special timing.
Every other defender allows for a way for the player to work around their mechanics with varying degrees of skill. The Serpent is Hyperion, Man-Thing and Photon in one champion. The amount of annoying abilities he has and they way they interact makes fighting him not a battle of skill, but a battle of stupid luck even if you bring an ideal counter.
The Serpent has been out for 5 months now and is a very popular champion. If there was a skillful way to dispatch him like every single other defender, it would have been found.
With the way Kabam has designed defenders, The Serpent is an outliar and for the health of the game I hope he is nerfed before he invokes a new status quo of unavoidable punishment champions.
The combo of Hype, Man Thing and Photon lol. You freaking nailed it dude.
Looking back, he's closer to a combo of Hype, Immortal Hulk and Photon, but with a small part of Man-Thing's damage reduction schtick.
Still not a healthy combination. I really hope Kabam doesn't lose the plot with any newer defenders.
Well Enchantress kinda looks scary to fight in BGs, she's also suppsoed to be a 5/5 defender
With every great defender, follows a counter or two. We'll be fine with Serpent as he is.
There is a difference between “tough defender” and this. He reduces the impact of almost all damage sources, pretty much ignores ability power reduction, and if you get him down you have to survive an immortality timer that’s pretty hard to fail, and gives even more broken power gain.
Oh and for fun you MUST take chip damage from the removal of a mastery.
His counters would need to be equally broken to be a hard counter, and tbh they’d probably end up making Hercules look like Groot and break the game.
This is how Kabam operates. Release a tough defender, then a few months later release a counter, which you will feel a need to acquire.
If the issue is BGs, then ban Serpent. If it is AW then you have a team of people to produce a counter, plus boosts and such.
No nerf needed.
I feel like the point is completely lost on you. When it comes to tough defenders, Kabam had at least designed them in a way where skill can still let you win the fight. Player complained at first with champions like Peni Parker and Hulkling all the way to Photon, Onslaught and Bullseye and then learned how to cleanly dispatch them using their skills in a tough matchup.
The Serpent is the first defender since Magik's buff to not fall in thr above category, however his case is worse as Magik's buff was designed in an era of very simple champion design. To brush The Serpent's defensive impact off as just being how Kabam operates is disingenuous to the issues of his design.
To start with, The Serpent forces you to take damage through the block with Specials. You can't dex his Special Attacks unless you get rid of his True Focus buff with a well timed Stagger or Neutralise effect. Nullify won't even matter as you can't remove it during the special and he'll gain it back when he launches another Special Attack. Also he's immune to Fate Seal so you're stuck to Neutralise or Stagger. If you can't get rid of the True Focus, you're punished even further with Serpent's Pierce bonus and passive Attack increases.
So bring a Stagger or Neutralise champ right?
That's just half of the trouble. The Serpent is immensely tanky, having really high health and resistances and even reduces the potency of incoming damage effects. To top it all off, once you've managed to work around that massive bulk, Serpent will basically become unkillable for 8 seconds while gaining health back and loads of power. As if that wasn't enough, it effectively IGNORES neutralise and will trigger anyway even if you bring an ideal champ.
Oh yeah, back to the power. Serpent gains so much power and will frequently launch his Special Attacks. Combined with the fact that you can't even dex his Special Attacks unless you specifically bring a Stagger or Neutralise champ where Neutralise champs are still punished with an unavoidable Death Immunity, Stagger doesn't seem that friendly of a counter consider that Serpent gains a lot of buffs and can heavily screw you up if you are unlucky with the staggers and his special timing.
Every other defender allows for a way for the player to work around their mechanics with varying degrees of skill. The Serpent is Hyperion, Man-Thing and Photon in one champion. The amount of annoying abilities he has and they way they interact makes fighting him not a battle of skill, but a battle of stupid luck even if you bring an ideal counter.
The Serpent has been out for 5 months now and is a very popular champion. If there was a skillful way to dispatch him like every single other defender, it would have been found.
With the way Kabam has designed defenders, The Serpent is an outliar and for the health of the game I hope he is nerfed before he invokes a new status quo of unavoidable punishment champions.
The combo of Hype, Man Thing and Photon lol. You freaking nailed it dude.
Looking back, he's closer to a combo of Hype, Immortal Hulk and Photon, but with a small part of Man-Thing's damage reduction schtick.
Still not a healthy combination. I really hope Kabam doesn't lose the plot with any newer defenders.
Well Enchantress kinda looks scary to fight in BGs, she's also suppsoed to be a 5/5 defender
So long as skill edges out and not pure luck, it shouldn't be a problem.
Anything over 50 seconds is not a counter, it's a guaranteed loss in GC even if you finish with 100%. There's a reason you barely any 6* Negasonics in any decks and only see the 7*, health matters but so does time.
God knows that there would be fire and brimstone if kabam touches him, cos people have spent their hard earned real life money and time to acquire and rank him.
Me included. I know how much it took me to get him and rank him up. So if kabam touches him, it'll be better if the just gave me a rank down ticket and a way to get back all of my sig stones that I have put into him, if not I am not going to spend a dime on this game again.
God knows that there would be fire and brimstone if kabam touches him, cos people have spent their hard earned real life money and time to acquire and rank him.
Whatever nerfs happen to him will happen to him within the confines of the rebalance program. As far as we know, there is no bugged interaction that immensely increases his strength. We've had this program for a long time now, everyone knows the drill, whatever investments people have made into Serpent they made being aware that he is subject to rebalance. No way Kabam will give out RDTs for him.
God knows that there would be fire and brimstone if kabam touches him, cos people have spent their hard earned real life money and time to acquire and rank him.
Yeah, people have said that kind of thing many, many times before.
Kabam needs to keep their game healthy and at least basically balanced. That holds priority over the feelings of individual players; because it's what gives the game longevity.
The re-balance program is well-known. It would be good to give it some kind of visibility in-game; but apart from that it's a good thing.
Comments
If serpent doesn't get a desirable Nerf, i am blaming the part of the community who are fine with him in his current state
I think he accurately represents all of them, except maybe damage. His damage is solid, it just takes a lot of time to access. Once you access it, I think it accurately depicts 4/5, but getting there is a slow process.
I think what would be great is if he only required 75 or maybe 80 charges to obtain his power gain, but then they remove the line on defense where he gains 15 charges per sp1 hit instead of 10. This would lower his required ramp to start his damage, and leave him mostly the same on defense, since you can still bait 2 sp1s against him freely, but the 3rd one will trigger power gain.
Considering ironheart didn’t get a tune up I really don’t expect anything, but this is what I’d love him to get.
Completely ignoring the point of the comment with a strawman, good job.
Still not a healthy combination. I really hope Kabam doesn't lose the plot with any newer defenders.
Kabam needs to keep their game healthy and at least basically balanced. That holds priority over the feelings of individual players; because it's what gives the game longevity.
The re-balance program is well-known. It would be good to give it some kind of visibility in-game; but apart from that it's a good thing.
Buff a bit more!
Some champ need to face Almighty Hercules
Serpent