Initial Thoughts On Enchantress?

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Comments

  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Well, Bero Man says she won't be a good defender, but we'll see.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riEWgVexFS8

    After fighting her multiple times myself (both SQ and BGs) I have to agree with him to be honest. Without nodes that make it hard to intercept her or punish her heavy, she's really not that hard especially with a strong science nuke. I've done it with Silk, Torch, OG Spidey and Titania so far and it's so easy you literally bait the first two sp1s remove all spells before every sp1 and she's just dead.
    I think people will get used to fighting her pretty quickly and her value will just keep going down.
    Once people get over the “OMG KABAM MADE HER SO HARD WAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAH! 😭” phase they’re going to realize how simple it is to play against this champion…. Reduce her power gain if you can. Or even stun lock her. Or even do passive damage to her. And just cycle through intercepting and punishing her heavy (that’s assuming you DON’T know how to play as her) realistically the only thing to worry about is her damage reflection.

    On offense… I’m starting to get a little annoyed after playing with AND against her at the same time in side quest. I beat the **** out of her and it was largely simple 😒 but why on earth is her abilities as a defender so much different (AND BETTER) than her toolkit as an attacker? Hey… you know who would love to start the quest off with a few random buffs? You know who would benefit a ton from being able to trigger multiple spells at once (SERIOUSLY HOW IS SHE EVEN DOING THAT?) I mean.. come on man! Doing chain lightning AND blizzard at the same time????? Why are you giving me so little to work with as an attacker?

    Yeah I don't know who had the brilliant idea of making it so she has to spam sp1s for 5-6 minutes just so she can get that great damage output lmao can't say I'm surprised though, this has been the trend for most of the year, good damage but so slow it's boring and just not worth it.
  • Dfraga71388Dfraga71388 Member Posts: 103
    kus234 said:

    So shld we waste 100 usd?

    No 6* is worth 100$ anymore. People just want new champs that bad and love wasting money.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,470 ★★★
    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
  • CoMinowCoMinow Member Posts: 339 ★★
    I just want to know if all the future champs are going to require the contra infinite lives code every time you launch a special.
    The idea of overly complex play on phone game with horrendously broken mechanics is disguising.
    The game doesn’t work now and most the spenders are 30 or even 40+. Seems like a really bad decision considering where they’re getting that money.
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,647 ★★★★★

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,647 ★★★★★
    edited August 23

    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
    Yes and even Enchantress’ damage when ramped is higher than Sable, despite not being known for high damage. Silver Sable’s damage is more like a 2/5 rather than a 4/5.

    Not only this, it also says Kate Bishop’s damage is 2/5, but it’s more like a 5/5.
  • Phantøm_EchøPhantøm_Echø Member Posts: 60
    EdisonLaw said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
    Yes and even Enchantress’ damage when ramped is higher than Sable, despite not being known for high damage. Silver Sable’s damage is more like a 2/5 rather than a 4/5.

    Not only this, it also says Kate Bishop’s damage is 2/5, but it’s more like a 5/5.
    She's a 2/5 cause without perfect release her damage isn't that great, with the skill ask of perfect release is when she becomes the 5/5, so I think her stats were somewhat valid.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,647 ★★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
    Yes and even Enchantress’ damage when ramped is higher than Sable, despite not being known for high damage. Silver Sable’s damage is more like a 2/5 rather than a 4/5.

    Not only this, it also says Kate Bishop’s damage is 2/5, but it’s more like a 5/5.
    She's a 2/5 cause without perfect release her damage isn't that great, with the skill ask of perfect release is when she becomes the 5/5, so I think her stats were somewhat valid.
    The damage typically means potential damage. Ex: Superior Iron Man has 5/5 damage which is pretty accurate
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
    Yes and even Enchantress’ damage when ramped is higher than Sable, despite not being known for high damage. Silver Sable’s damage is more like a 2/5 rather than a 4/5.

    Not only this, it also says Kate Bishop’s damage is 2/5, but it’s more like a 5/5.
    Yeah I agree, even fully ramped to me it's a 2.5-3/5
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,647 ★★★★★
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCHljXn_8Yg

    Enchantress soloes SoS Destroyer
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    EdisonLaw said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCHljXn_8Yg

    Enchantress soloes SoS Destroyer

    That looks a lot more respectable, 3 minutes is not too bad. I wonder if people aren't ramping her right in Necropolis or they're just straight up ramping her way too much cause in most videos it takes like 4 minutes to ramp fully, maybe if you don't go for max spells she's quicker.
  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 543 ★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
    Yes and even Enchantress’ damage when ramped is higher than Sable, despite not being known for high damage. Silver Sable’s damage is more like a 2/5 rather than a 4/5.

    Not only this, it also says Kate Bishop’s damage is 2/5, but it’s more like a 5/5.
    She's a 2/5 cause without perfect release her damage isn't that great, with the skill ask of perfect release is when she becomes the 5/5, so I think her stats were somewhat valid.
    Gonna give my perhaps controversial opinion here: perfect release is the fakest “skill gap” in the game. It’s not remotely hard. Took me like 2 days to nail it when Hawkeye’s buff first released (and remember that that was when perfect release was significantly tighter to perform). Kate took me like 10 - 20 minutes. I regularly use Bullseye now and I literally cannot recall a single time I missed the perfect release window. It’s not like I’m a timing god either, if you tell me my life depends on hitting the sp3 mini game I’m just not even trying and I’ll do the job for you.

    Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fun mechanic and part of the reason I find Bullseye fun. I just don’t understand how people keep hyping it up as the reason she “deserves” her sky-high damage like it’s some inaccessibility that only the true dedicated masters can do. I can’t imagine it taking more than a day or two to get down, a week tops. Kate in general just never felt hard, between her pseudo-taunt, crush, and evade stun I actually find her weirdly safe and easy. Not like she has defensive abilities to plan around either when she counters evade and miss as well as most autoblock.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,601 ★★★★★
    Squidopus said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
    Yes and even Enchantress’ damage when ramped is higher than Sable, despite not being known for high damage. Silver Sable’s damage is more like a 2/5 rather than a 4/5.

    Not only this, it also says Kate Bishop’s damage is 2/5, but it’s more like a 5/5.
    She's a 2/5 cause without perfect release her damage isn't that great, with the skill ask of perfect release is when she becomes the 5/5, so I think her stats were somewhat valid.
    Gonna give my perhaps controversial opinion here: perfect release is the fakest “skill gap” in the game. It’s not remotely hard. Took me like 2 days to nail it when Hawkeye’s buff first released (and remember that that was when perfect release was significantly tighter to perform). Kate took me like 10 - 20 minutes. I regularly use Bullseye now and I literally cannot recall a single time I missed the perfect release window. It’s not like I’m a timing god either, if you tell me my life depends on hitting the sp3 mini game I’m just not even trying and I’ll do the job for you.

    Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fun mechanic and part of the reason I find Bullseye fun. I just don’t understand how people keep hyping it up as the reason she “deserves” her sky-high damage like it’s some inaccessibility that only the true dedicated masters can do. I can’t imagine it taking more than a day or two to get down, a week tops. Kate in general just never felt hard, between her pseudo-taunt, crush, and evade stun I actually find her weirdly safe and easy. Not like she has defensive abilities to plan around either when she counters evade and miss as well as most autoblock.
    The toughest part about kate is not perfect release, But to knock down against the wall to refresh her effects, Which is pretty easy but if you didn't stay aggressive enough it'll expire pretty quickly
  • NONYABIZZNONYABIZZ Member Posts: 628 ★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCHljXn_8Yg

    Enchantress soloes SoS Destroyer

    That looks a lot more respectable, 3 minutes is not too bad. I wonder if people aren't ramping her right in Necropolis or they're just straight up ramping her way too much cause in most videos it takes like 4 minutes to ramp fully, maybe if you don't go for max spells she's quicker.
    I do think 5 of each spells is enough and anything else is just unnecessary and doing too much that's about 15 sp1's for necro type health pools
    I also think it's best to go only for the incinerates when you use the damage spells as that's where the main burst damage comes from
  • NONYABIZZNONYABIZZ Member Posts: 628 ★★★

    Squidopus said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
    Yes and even Enchantress’ damage when ramped is higher than Sable, despite not being known for high damage. Silver Sable’s damage is more like a 2/5 rather than a 4/5.

    Not only this, it also says Kate Bishop’s damage is 2/5, but it’s more like a 5/5.
    She's a 2/5 cause without perfect release her damage isn't that great, with the skill ask of perfect release is when she becomes the 5/5, so I think her stats were somewhat valid.
    Gonna give my perhaps controversial opinion here: perfect release is the fakest “skill gap” in the game. It’s not remotely hard. Took me like 2 days to nail it when Hawkeye’s buff first released (and remember that that was when perfect release was significantly tighter to perform). Kate took me like 10 - 20 minutes. I regularly use Bullseye now and I literally cannot recall a single time I missed the perfect release window. It’s not like I’m a timing god either, if you tell me my life depends on hitting the sp3 mini game I’m just not even trying and I’ll do the job for you.

    Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fun mechanic and part of the reason I find Bullseye fun. I just don’t understand how people keep hyping it up as the reason she “deserves” her sky-high damage like it’s some inaccessibility that only the true dedicated masters can do. I can’t imagine it taking more than a day or two to get down, a week tops. Kate in general just never felt hard, between her pseudo-taunt, crush, and evade stun I actually find her weirdly safe and easy. Not like she has defensive abilities to plan around either when she counters evade and miss as well as most autoblock.
    The toughest part about kate is not perfect release, But to knock down against the wall to refresh her effects, Which is pretty easy but if you didn't stay aggressive enough it'll expire pretty quickly
    That would be true if she were like cheeilth who's pause only lasts for 5 seconds and the heavy takes like 3 seconds to complete. Kate debuffs last for 12 seconds and punishing heavies or specials pause them for 5 seconds and hitting block pauses for 2 seconds. THERE'S LITERALLY SO MANY WAYS TO MAINTAIN THEM. KATE is not hard to play AT ALL maybe a few nodes and a few defensive mechanics that you need to wait out can disrupt her rotation but still. She was never hard. Her perfect release has such an open window, if you're willing to learn it it's so easy. I never do it without pausing time tho.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,601 ★★★★★
    NONYABIZZ said:

    Squidopus said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
    Yes and even Enchantress’ damage when ramped is higher than Sable, despite not being known for high damage. Silver Sable’s damage is more like a 2/5 rather than a 4/5.

    Not only this, it also says Kate Bishop’s damage is 2/5, but it’s more like a 5/5.
    She's a 2/5 cause without perfect release her damage isn't that great, with the skill ask of perfect release is when she becomes the 5/5, so I think her stats were somewhat valid.
    Gonna give my perhaps controversial opinion here: perfect release is the fakest “skill gap” in the game. It’s not remotely hard. Took me like 2 days to nail it when Hawkeye’s buff first released (and remember that that was when perfect release was significantly tighter to perform). Kate took me like 10 - 20 minutes. I regularly use Bullseye now and I literally cannot recall a single time I missed the perfect release window. It’s not like I’m a timing god either, if you tell me my life depends on hitting the sp3 mini game I’m just not even trying and I’ll do the job for you.

    Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fun mechanic and part of the reason I find Bullseye fun. I just don’t understand how people keep hyping it up as the reason she “deserves” her sky-high damage like it’s some inaccessibility that only the true dedicated masters can do. I can’t imagine it taking more than a day or two to get down, a week tops. Kate in general just never felt hard, between her pseudo-taunt, crush, and evade stun I actually find her weirdly safe and easy. Not like she has defensive abilities to plan around either when she counters evade and miss as well as most autoblock.
    The toughest part about kate is not perfect release, But to knock down against the wall to refresh her effects, Which is pretty easy but if you didn't stay aggressive enough it'll expire pretty quickly
    That would be true if she were like cheeilth who's pause only lasts for 5 seconds and the heavy takes like 3 seconds to complete. Kate debuffs last for 12 seconds and punishing heavies or specials pause them for 5 seconds and hitting block pauses for 2 seconds. THERE'S LITERALLY SO MANY WAYS TO MAINTAIN THEM. KATE is not hard to play AT ALL maybe a few nodes and a few defensive mechanics that you need to wait out can disrupt her rotation but still. She was never hard. Her perfect release has such an open window, if you're willing to learn it it's so easy. I never do it without pausing time tho.
    Kate is not hard to play in regular matchups. I'll say she's little stressful in necropolis, and that's how the notion of "kate has high skill ceiling" came from.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,470 ★★★
    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read get white
    EdisonLaw said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
    Yes and even Enchantress’ damage when ramped is higher than Sable, despite not being known for high damage. Silver Sable’s damage is more like a 2/5 rather than a 4/5.

    Not only this, it also says Kate Bishop’s damage is 2/5, but it’s more like a 5/5.
    She's a 2/5 cause without perfect release her damage isn't that great, with the skill ask of perfect release is when she becomes the 5/5, so I think her stats were somewhat valid.
    The damage typically means potential damage. Ex: Superior Iron Man has 5/5 damage which is pretty accurate
    It does not mean potential damage, in the and way that enchantress damage is 3 if you don't maximise her spells
  • SquidopusSquidopus Member Posts: 543 ★★★

    NONYABIZZ said:

    Squidopus said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her. You can also read her spells in the pause menu

    jdschw said:

    I think she's too complicated. Setting aside whether she's fair or not on offense or defense, I just think there is too much going on. I think it's incongruent with the rest of the game.

    On defense, she's sort of like a boss fight, where you have to complete certain "challenges" to remove her spells before she gets a SP1 or you get smushed.

    On offense, to use her properly, you have to memorize a Mortal-Kombat-sized moveset.

    I like the character design, but I don't like the complexity. Her "abilities" description says it all. There's no less than 8 items listed there, and it could have a lot more entries (e.g. incinerate, coldsnap, frostbite).

    Having one complicated character in the game doesn't break anything, it just adds variety to those that want to use her

    EdisonLaw said:

    @GrassKnuckles can you clarify these claims?

    They aren't claims, they're facts, both fights were slow for a long form content champ. Either he played her wrong (and so did my alliance teammate) or the damage really isn't as good as it should be for a long form content champ.
    All I can say is one champ was given and designed to have a 5/5 in damage, and the other was given and designed to have a 3/5 in damage. I don't know what else you were expecting. Either let her shine where she's meant to shine, or simply don't play her
    You mean like how Sable is designed to have 4/5 and Kate 2.5/5?

    Anyways lol so she has meh damage, good, that's all I wanted to confirm. I don't think she'll shine anywhere with that damage cause for Necropolis type stuff you'll probably run out of time constantly, but you do you.
    Sables damage is not the issue, her ramp up is
    I'm going to pretend you didn't just say that lmao.
    At max ramp up her damage is decent, the problem is it takes too long to get there. If she had that damage at about 2 traps instead of 3 it wouldn't be as big of an issue
    I don't see how her damage can be 4/5 even at max ramp though, I watched MSD using the 7* and that's not 4/5 lol. Is it decent? Sure, but there is no way that's a 4/5.
    Actually on the official page, it’s a 3/5 in terms of damage


    That's Enchantress, we're talking about Sable
    Yes and even Enchantress’ damage when ramped is higher than Sable, despite not being known for high damage. Silver Sable’s damage is more like a 2/5 rather than a 4/5.

    Not only this, it also says Kate Bishop’s damage is 2/5, but it’s more like a 5/5.
    She's a 2/5 cause without perfect release her damage isn't that great, with the skill ask of perfect release is when she becomes the 5/5, so I think her stats were somewhat valid.
    Gonna give my perhaps controversial opinion here: perfect release is the fakest “skill gap” in the game. It’s not remotely hard. Took me like 2 days to nail it when Hawkeye’s buff first released (and remember that that was when perfect release was significantly tighter to perform). Kate took me like 10 - 20 minutes. I regularly use Bullseye now and I literally cannot recall a single time I missed the perfect release window. It’s not like I’m a timing god either, if you tell me my life depends on hitting the sp3 mini game I’m just not even trying and I’ll do the job for you.

    Don’t get me wrong, it’s a fun mechanic and part of the reason I find Bullseye fun. I just don’t understand how people keep hyping it up as the reason she “deserves” her sky-high damage like it’s some inaccessibility that only the true dedicated masters can do. I can’t imagine it taking more than a day or two to get down, a week tops. Kate in general just never felt hard, between her pseudo-taunt, crush, and evade stun I actually find her weirdly safe and easy. Not like she has defensive abilities to plan around either when she counters evade and miss as well as most autoblock.
    The toughest part about kate is not perfect release, But to knock down against the wall to refresh her effects, Which is pretty easy but if you didn't stay aggressive enough it'll expire pretty quickly
    That would be true if she were like cheeilth who's pause only lasts for 5 seconds and the heavy takes like 3 seconds to complete. Kate debuffs last for 12 seconds and punishing heavies or specials pause them for 5 seconds and hitting block pauses for 2 seconds. THERE'S LITERALLY SO MANY WAYS TO MAINTAIN THEM. KATE is not hard to play AT ALL maybe a few nodes and a few defensive mechanics that you need to wait out can disrupt her rotation but still. She was never hard. Her perfect release has such an open window, if you're willing to learn it it's so easy. I never do it without pausing time tho.
    Kate is not hard to play in regular matchups. I'll say she's little stressful in necropolis, and that's how the notion of "kate has high skill ceiling" came from.
    I mean who isn’t a bit stressful to play in necro, it’s necro. If completing fights there was stress-free it wouldn’t be the hardest Everest content in the game. I used her for my (currently only) run in necro and found her a breeze, she has no shortage of ways to keep her trick arrows going. Only had issue with Titania, whose unstoppable is one of the only major defensive abilities that really gives Kate pause (and even then her long passive stun on evade can help her wait it out).
  • ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Member Posts: 5,444 ★★★★★
    NONYABIZZ said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCHljXn_8Yg

    Enchantress soloes SoS Destroyer

    That looks a lot more respectable, 3 minutes is not too bad. I wonder if people aren't ramping her right in Necropolis or they're just straight up ramping her way too much cause in most videos it takes like 4 minutes to ramp fully, maybe if you don't go for max spells she's quicker.
    I do think 5 of each spells is enough and anything else is just unnecessary and doing too much that's about 15 sp1's for necro type health pools
    I also think it's best to go only for the incinerates when you use the damage spells as that's where the main burst damage comes from
    I'd like to see someone do Necro Odin again without max spells then. Maybe the max ramp is meant to be for the next Necropolis (whenever we get that) type content where hps will probably be over 10M and the timer will be slightly longer. In that case I can definitely see those 5 minutes of ramp not being too bad but for current Necropolis where most fights are around 7 minutes, 5 minutes of ramp is definitely too much.
  • LunerCatLunerCat Member Posts: 19
    Overly complicated to use and over power to fight against.
  • smdam38smdam38 Member Posts: 1,452 ★★★
    She does seem overly complicated to fight.

    This is a mobile game, not a career. It’s something to do while you got that white porcelain on your backside.
  • EakomoEakomo Member Posts: 135
    She's designed on the very extreme end of complicated and requiring a lot of memorization to use efficiently.
    We already have multiple champion that have mechanics for selecting and changing effects they gain or place on the defender, wh couldn't the design have made use of that rather than doubling down on 3 swipe combinations for every single spell
  • KerneasKerneas Member Posts: 3,825 ★★★★★
    Bullsh*t OP champ imho.

    Slow is pretty much obligatory, and that sucks. This champ has you do X (intercept, interrupt heavy, knock down) and then activates blessings, that directly counter that. Unstop on dash, evade against knockdown. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if she was slow immune.

    I would be okay with having to play slowly, but this is too much imho
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,647 ★★★★★
    Eakomo said:

    She's designed on the very extreme end of complicated and requiring a lot of memorization to use efficiently.
    We already have multiple champion that have mechanics for selecting and changing effects they gain or place on the defender, wh couldn't the design have made use of that rather than doubling down on 3 swipe combinations for every single spell

    She’s like an Act 8 boss
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,647 ★★★★★
    The ultimate Enchantress showcase is here

    https://youtu.be/B1oE_qiLV2k?si=jEiTKiqJp4JKQ1HI
  • Gregdagr8Gregdagr8 Member Posts: 385 ★★★
    Awful defender, should have never been released. There are multiple nodes in war that she will get 3+ kills every war. Awful!
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,647 ★★★★★
    Gregdagr8 said:

    Awful defender, should have never been released. There are multiple nodes in war that she will get 3+ kills every war. Awful!

    Especially on nodes where you can’t intercept or knock her down
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