MCOC - Way too difficult for newbs?

HungaryHippo · September 22

Out of boredom, I started doing Carina’s V3 on my mini account. With the vast array of new champs, many of the fights are very easy (for example Kushala one shot Herc first try).

Until I took a step back to realize the skill set required.
1. Intercepting his trash AI
2. Parrying and heavy punishing his specials
3. Staying close without getting hit.
4. Timing your damage with zero to hero

While doing it, it was a fun challenge but I’ve been playing this game since 2016 (took a 5 year break) was very hardcore (Legend) in 2016-2017 before quitting and much more casual now.

Which brings me to a question? How on earth would a complete newb catch up to endgame in this game. How many months or even years would that take?
We all casually parry Photon and Serpent specials but is MCOC pricing itself out of future growth. I was trying to get a coworker into the game and suddenly realized how daunting it would be before we can even play together.

captain_rogers · September 22

The problem is, the earlier contents are very easier for newbies. They get 6* when they enter act 5, they get 7*s before even fighting grandmaster, the story quest after act 6 is too easy, so there is no incentive to develop your skills. But once they start entering competitive mode like bgs, or try to attempt endgame challenges like SOS, necro and EOP, theh realize they lack skills, and since the story mode is too easy, there isn't really any place to develop skills faster. So they have to skip multiple endgame contents like sos and deathless challenges, high tier incursions, aw showcase, crucible etc for months even if they have the right roster

PT_99 · September 22

What's the point to learn intercept when AI will instead hold block for eternity or use two light attacks back to back instead of following the dash back attack 😶

HungaryHippo · September 22

@captain_rogers very true. The amount of knowledge required is also insane. Endgame players are a figurative encyclopedia of game knowledge

Shamir51 · September 22

The other thing holding back newer players is that they don’t spend the time building their rosters at any level because they’re flying through content too quickly. There was a post about 9.1 exploration and how much it had cost the individual, in particular BWCV boss and a path in 9.1.3 (50% chance to evade), although there have been numerous comments. It’s a newer player that exhibits what OP has said plus everything else: thinking about the mechanics of the nodes at play and having breadth of knowledge on how to combat them, having a diverse roster of maxed out champs. I used a 5* maxed out void for BWCV boss and it was honestly the easiest fight in all of act 9.1.

Buttehrs · September 22

Newbs aren't supposed to catch up to first day players.

HungaryHippo · September 22

Shamir51 said:
The other thing holding back newer players is that they don’t spend the time building their rosters at any level because they’re flying through content too quickly. There was a post about 9.1 exploration and how much it had cost the individual, in particular BWCV boss and a path in 9.1.3 (50% chance to evade), although there have been numerous comments. It’s a newer player that exhibits what OP has said plus everything else: thinking about the mechanics of the nodes at play and having breadth of knowledge on how to combat them, having a diverse roster of maxed out champs. I used a 5* maxed out void for BWCV boss and it was honestly the easiest fight in all of act 9.1.

My point wasn’t is early game too hard, it was that getting to endgame as a totally new player seems daunting. I’m talking about coming in totally blind to able to do some endgame content (not all).

AzKicker316 · September 22

HungaryHippo said:
@captain_rogers very true. The amount of knowledge required is also insane. Endgame players are a figurative encyclopedia of game knowledge

It's called experience! The only way to get that is by playing playing playing. If you start rushing and skipping content, you won't gain that experience and therefore will lack the skill for the end game stuff.

By the way, why should new players be able to come in and play end game content? That is the worst, and honestly stupidest, way to look at starting a game! It should be daunting for new players, put in the time and effort to become good at this game!!!

Joker1976 · September 22

I don’t have any data or specific numbers to say how many new accounts progress onward or become stagnant,.,i can say though that the game is vast and watched this unfold when i introduced mcoc to my nephew.
I knew this already but fully realized it when i started explaining champion abilities to him and their interactions with one another.
I watched him play a bit and tried to give him some pointers,..but it was quite a sad affair to see lol.
He lacked understanding of fight mechanics and how to take control of it through parry / intercept and even how to swipe back and evade.
He didn’t understand class interactions worked,.,didn’t fully understand how to navigate the menu ( as he had earned objectives milestones/ cav crystals in his stash that were expiring).
He didn’t fully understand progression and what he needed to complete to advance more quickly,,,i think he obtained the first few progression ranks and then has pretty much dropped mcoc.
Btw he is an avid console gamer and 25 years old lol.
The funny part is he didn’t even get far enough to have to take understanding all the nodes into account.
Sometimes many of us who have been playing the game for many years and have most of the knowledge upstairs forget…the game is very deep.

1199345 · September 22

We all were new players at some point, and we survived; With time, familiarity, experience, and the knowledge that comes with all 3, new players coming into the game will survive too...

if they have the right mindset...

To reiterate: This game is a never-ending slow-burner that requires a diverse roster and fighting skillset; If you're not willing to put together a large roster and learn how to effectively use it, your frustration with the game will grow exponentially.

On top of that, the game also requires reading comprehension and critical thinking skills; There are a lot of people out there who just want to run through content without reading/unpacking the nodes and understanding their interaction, and they get even more frustrated due to getting stuck or lack of instant gratification of getting a quick ko, and they discouraged.

That's on them.

With that said, new players aren't supposed to instantly "catch up" to endgamers who've been playing for years. That's not the point in this game, or in life in general. You don't start freshman year expecting to be a senior in 12 months...you don't start a new job in a new field and expect to be CEO within a year. Lower your expectations a bit, realize this game takes REAL time and effort, and if you're not willing to put in the work, maybe it's not for you.

Now, if you put forth the time, and utilize patience, problem-solving skills, and have realistic expectations of game progression, MCOC is a very enjoyable and rewarding experience (AI issues and bugs aside). The graphics are top-notch and the content is robust and engaging. There's a reason it's been going strong for 10 years now...

HungaryHippo · September 22

Joker1976 said:
I don’t have any data or specific numbers to say how many new accounts progress onward or become stagnant,.,i can say though that the game is vast and watched this unfold when i introduced mcoc to my nephew.
I knew this already but fully realized it when i started explaining champion abilities to him and their interactions with one another.
I watched him play a bit and tried to give him some pointers,..but it was quite a sad affair to see lol.
He lacked understanding of fight mechanics and how to take control of it through parry / intercept and even how to swipe back and evade.
He didn’t understand class interactions worked,.,didn’t fully understand how to navigate the menu ( as he had earned objectives milestones/ cav crystals in his stash that were expiring).
He didn’t fully understand progression and what he needed to complete to advance more quickly,,,i think he obtained the first few progression ranks and then has pretty much dropped mcoc.
Btw he is an avid console gamer and 25 years old lol.
The funny part is he didn’t even get far enough to have to take understanding all the nodes into account.
Sometimes many of us who have been playing the game for many years and have most of the knowledge upstairs forget…the game is very deep.

This is a really insightful response and one that doesn’t miss the point like many other responses haha.

I wonder how many players here are relatively endgame (Uru or some endgame completed) and have been playing for less than 2 years.

Reminds me of when a professional player friend tried to get me to play Quake.

Awesomep12 · September 22

Shamir51 said:
The other thing holding back newer players is that they don’t spend the time building their rosters at any level because they’re flying through content too quickly. There was a post about 9.1 exploration and how much it had cost the individual, in particular BWCV boss and a path in 9.1.3 (50% chance to evade), although there have been numerous comments. It’s a newer player that exhibits what OP has said plus everything else: thinking about the mechanics of the nodes at play and having breadth of knowledge on how to combat them, having a diverse roster of maxed out champs. I used a 5* maxed out void for BWCV boss and it was honestly the easiest fight in all of act 9.1.

That was me. I'm by no means a new player, but the big part of that path was that the ai was being really ****, as for bw, I didn't have a proper counter. I have been playing the game for a couple of years and have done a fair bit of Everest content. I won't say I'm the best player ever, because I'm certainly not, but I am decent-ish and I have plenty of knowledge about the game @Shamir51

Awesomep12 · September 22

Buttehrs said:
Newbs aren't supposed to catch up to first day players.

I disagree. New players should be able to get to good ranks without being time-gated. Imagine wanting to get into a new game, but then find out its basically impossible to get to high ranks because of time-gated characters, items, resources, skills etc, like star wars galaxy of heroes is

Halley · September 22

Yeah, the game become more and more complicated, even to new Developers, and new employees/admins of Mcoc 😄

But we all love it, so it last 10 years now ♥️

Congratulations 10 year anniversary MCOC 🎉

Buttehrs · September 22

Awesomep12 said:

Buttehrs said:
Newbs aren't supposed to catch up to first day players.
I disagree. New players should be able to get to good ranks without being time-gated. Imagine wanting to get into a new game, but then find out its basically impossible to get to high ranks because of time-gated characters, items, resources, skills etc, like star wars galaxy of heroes is

Yet galaxy of heroes is damn near as old as mcoc is and doesn't have any kind of issues that makes you think it shutting down any time soon. Time gated works fine as long as it's not obscene times.

Awesomep12 · September 22

Buttehrs said:

Awesomep12 said:

Buttehrs said:
Newbs aren't supposed to catch up to first day players.
I disagree. New players should be able to get to good ranks without being time-gated. Imagine wanting to get into a new game, but then find out its basically impossible to get to high ranks because of time-gated characters, items, resources, skills etc, like star wars galaxy of heroes is
Yet galaxy of heroes is damn near as old as mcoc is and doesn't have any kind of issues that makes you think it shutting down any time soon. Time gated works fine as long as it's not obscene times.

Mcoc isn't getting shut down and swgoh always has glitches. What's your point?

klobberintyme · September 22

Jumped on to arenas to get a Revive and potions from Arena wins event. 2nd match in using 5r4s was Bullseye, arcade and enchantress - my own fault for having express mode clicked I suppose. I had no counters to anyone but only lost to Arcade by poison dot. Suffice to say a noob running into those champs in the 2nd round of "easy" arenas probably isn't sticking around after the intermission.

Which is to say, the aging game knows its best bet is to squeeze the lifers and service the diehards at this point, no different than your favorite show after season 5ish. Noobs dropping in at this point ain't getting the Previously on the Show preamble.

Lokx · September 22

All those things were learned while doing stories. And as some have mentioned, due to the easy access to higher tier champs then initially intended for a quest has caused people to by pass learning it. The solution is simple. If they come across a content they have no skill for, then they will have to learn that skill through the content.

Or better yet, add more tutorials like how they have the parry tutorial. Do one for light intercept, normal intercept, back draft intercept etc.

Also i assume newbies are like this because i am like this, but revive pushing a quest over resetting it even if your at the boss is a way to never improve. Resetting a quest forces you to be more focused the next time around while revive pushing does nothing but make you reply on no brain gameplay.

willrun4adonut · September 22

HungaryHippo said:

We all casually parry Photon and Serpent specials but is MCOC pricing itself out of future growth.

Or we just hold block and take the damage.

Dicedicedicedice · September 22

The sheer amount of ever growing jargon is daunting to say the least.

Just all the crazy buffs and debuffs and what they do. Then how they apply to ind champs and their overlapping immunities( immunity infographic till a few years back was a single pager. Now u can’t even fit it into a Venn diagram 😂), then % potency and gaps. Then nodes. Then content formats.

If I started today I would b bored before I get anywhere tbh.

Twist1298 · September 22

Joker1976 said:
I don’t have any data or specific numbers to say how many new accounts progress onward or become stagnant,.,i can say though that the game is vast and watched this unfold when i introduced mcoc to my nephew.
I knew this already but fully realized it when i started explaining champion abilities to him and their interactions with one another.
I watched him play a bit and tried to give him some pointers,..but it was quite a sad affair to see lol.
He lacked understanding of fight mechanics and how to take control of it through parry / intercept and even how to swipe back and evade.
He didn’t understand class interactions worked,.,didn’t fully understand how to navigate the menu ( as he had earned objectives milestones/ cav crystals in his stash that were expiring).
He didn’t fully understand progression and what he needed to complete to advance more quickly,,,i think he obtained the first few progression ranks and then has pretty much dropped mcoc.
Btw he is an avid console gamer and 25 years old lol.
The funny part is he didn’t even get far enough to have to take understanding all the nodes into account.
Sometimes many of us who have been playing the game for many years and have most of the knowledge upstairs forget…the game is very deep.

This is the point that was trying to be explained, the game is currently a lot.
I get how the vets feel about altered old content, but you can call it easy because of your knowledge if you were brand new and had no knowledge at all you too would struggle. Also yes you can get through some content quickly but if you encourage new players to go through all the content, even though the rewards are not worth it some of the old content can help create the skills that are lacking.

Nemesis_17 · September 22

I think act 6 is what saves this game from making certain endgame content beyond reach for some of the “newer” end game players. From what I’ve seen act 6 is a roadblock for a lot of players, which gives them more time to become familiar with game mechanics and champ kits. The ones who are able to rush through act 6 are the more skilled ones so they will already have some of the necessary skills for more basic end game content.

The act 5 nerf I feel was a huge mistake as before it served as a proper stepping stone to prepare players for act 6. It noticeably increased in difficulty from act 4 which was something that was needed to prepare for the challenge of act 6, but now that’s gone. Now it barely forces you to start understanding how to scout ahead and prepare instead of picking a random path and hoping for the best. There’s little challenge other than a couple bosses like the collector and ultron, very little thinking is required to progress through it.

I think game complexity is more of an issue for new players than game difficulty. There’s a lot to learn especially with over 275 champs in the game, many of which have abilities that can stop you in your tracks if you’re unfamiliar with them. Most of us learned these champ mechanics gradually as they were released, but a new player has to learn it all at once. It’s still doable of course, but probably is a turn off for a lot of people.

BringPopcorn · September 22

It's not too difficult, people expect instant gratification with subpar rosters. They have a hard time understanding that there are people who put years in this game to develop skill, roster and understanding. Then you got new players trying to play catch up and rushing.

Tesladon · September 22

I only have the 5 star, but Quake is great! 👍

HungaryHippo said:

Joker1976 said:

Reminds me of when a professional player friend tried to get me to play Quake.

Terminatrix · September 22

To try to answer your question and keep it short, IMO a complete noob would have to first understand the complexity and levels of strategy this game requires, and be patient and willing to learn it, and deal with the additional bugs, crashes, and other annoyances and frustrations along the way. These are things they may not be used to on other gaming platforms.

_puy000_ · September 22

I hope you realize that most newbies quit early on before it gets hard because it’s too easy and repetitive at the beginning.

Joker1976 · September 22

BringPopcorn said:
It's not too difficult, people expect instant gratification with subpar rosters. They have a hard time understanding that there are people who put years in this game to develop skill, roster and understanding. Then you got new players trying to play catch up and rushing.

I agree that it’s not “too difficult”,..it is however imo..very time consuming to gain the resources to build a decent roster to tackle the progression tiers.
I think people try to rush story content because the game is always progressing.
All if not most of us commenting here are Valiant ,.and so it’s relatively easy to keep up to speed.
If i was a new player looking at this game and the amount of ground i would have to cover as well as all the complexities of the game…well,…let’s just say i wouldn’t 😓

klobberintyme · September 23

Instant market research result:

13 year old male feedback, last played MCOC at age 9, playing UC EQ 3.1 on my Valiant acct:

"I gotta read to play now?"
"It's aight. Just button mashing. WTF just happened (boss fight)."

Wanna play more? "I'm good."

That kid drops $100+ monthly on Roblox and other Steam/desktop games. Coulda been on mcoc, but not now.

17 year old male, last played MCOC around 2019 feedback, same scenario:

"This seems a lot more involved. Still kinda basic fighting though. I like the new menus."

Wanna play more? "Eh. Maybe."

Went back to playing BATMAN: ARKHAM KNIGHT on his PS5, apparently really close to 100% it. 83 hrs! Complains about Suicide Squad and wonks about Rocksteady. Teens.

Personally I still enjoy MCOC, but I'm a few years past the 18-49 age demo.

MCOC - Way too difficult for newbs?

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