Road to Crypt vs BG Season 22 Realm event

Herbal_TaxmanHerbal_Taxman Member Posts: 866 ★★★★
in General Discussion
This is obvious but I haven’t seen it said anywhere — there’s a fundamental difference between the Necro realm event (Road) and the way realm events are structured now. Road was a bonus on top of something we were already doing. Everyone was grinding Necro primarily because of the Necro rewards; the Road rewards were simply icing on the cake.

Now, Kabam has shifted the structure so the realm event rewards are the only incentive. By taking anway regular BG season rewards and leaving us only with the realm event rewards, it’s just kabam asking us to do more for less. I’m glad they are trying to innovate and I was happy to see Crashed’s response to the other thread. But as it’s currently conceived, it’s another example of Kabam using new event structures to subtly move the goalposts on the player base.

Comments

  • N8buckeye08N8buckeye08 Member Posts: 218 ★★
    I don’t think “more for less” is accurate… the rewards are definitely better than the solo and alliance rewards. I’m sure @DNA3000 will have a robust commentary on this eventually, but I’d be shocked if many people get less rewards for equal amount of effort.

    Your point stands that it doesn’t feel like a special event.
  • Adrianz1Adrianz1 Member Posts: 74 ★
    To get that amount of t4a in an alliance you need all memebers to pull out a good score, not all mid alliances have that and leaves people that score 600k to 700k or more in solo without it, this is an oportunity for them aswell!
  • Graves_3Graves_3 Member Posts: 1,559 ★★★★★
    Adrianz1 said:

    To get that amount of t4a in an alliance you need all memebers to pull out a good score, not all mid alliances have that and leaves people that score 600k to 700k or more in solo without it, this is an oportunity for them aswell!

    You also need to remember that everyone playing BG needs to grind now. The whole battle realm is a huge alliance and those scoring 600k to 700k solo are exactly in the same boat. At the mercy of 200k-300k people grinding out points instead of 29 other people in alliance doing it.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,734 ★★★★★
    Graves_3 said:

    Adrianz1 said:

    To get that amount of t4a in an alliance you need all memebers to pull out a good score, not all mid alliances have that and leaves people that score 600k to 700k or more in solo without it, this is an oportunity for them aswell!

    You also need to remember that everyone playing BG needs to grind now. The whole battle realm is a huge alliance and those scoring 600k to 700k solo are exactly in the same boat. At the mercy of 200k-300k people grinding out points instead of 29 other people in alliance doing it.
    If there is 200-300k people...
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,841 Guardian
    Herbal_Taxman said:

    This is obvious but I haven’t seen it said anywhere — there’s a fundamental difference between the Necro realm event (Road) and the way realm events are structured now. Road was a bonus on top of something we were already doing. Everyone was grinding Necro primarily because of the Necro rewards; the Road rewards were simply icing on the cake.

    Now, Kabam has shifted the structure so the realm event rewards are the only incentive. By taking anway regular BG season rewards and leaving us only with the realm event rewards, it’s just kabam asking us to do more for less. I’m glad they are trying to innovate and I was happy to see Crashed’s response to the other thread. But as it’s currently conceived, it’s another example of Kabam using new event structures to subtly move the goalposts on the player base.

    Road to the Crypt was an exception, or rather Necropolis was the exception upon which Road to the Crypt was built. You can't expect Realm events to be patterns on the same sort of situation, because Necropolis is the sort of thing we might expect to see once every few years.

    I get the complaint that they are removing the solo and alliance base rewards and replacing them with the Realm event rewards, but the devs hands are a bit tied here. They want the Realm rewards themselves to be high enough to be noteworthy, but they cannot simply conjure rewards out of thin air, as most players think they can do. The game economy has reward budgets built into it, and if they preserve the normal BG rewards, that significantly limits how high they can make the Realm rewards, to the point where they can seem trivial to many players.

    We've run into this problem before. When players complained that, say, Act or EQ maps did not have reasonable rewards for doing paths - it was completion, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, exploration - the devs tried to add path rewards to change that. But those came in large part from the exploration rewards themselves. They couldn't add *both* high path rewards *and* high exploration rewards. Something had to give. There are many instances of this happening, and while players continue to think devs can just add rewards where ever they want, they just can't.

    If Crashed is looking at boosting the rewards for BG S22, he's looking for somewhere to take those rewards from. He probably won't say where, and if it isn't obvious from the structure we might never know, but rewards aren't just random numbers.
  • Herbal_TaxmanHerbal_Taxman Member Posts: 866 ★★★★
    Nothing to disagree with here. If the devs are constrained by the in game economy, as economy managers their incentive is to maximize game engagement while minimizing reward payout. Just like any other rational actor in a market. In the case of the BG22 realm event, it just feels to me like considerably more effort for somewhat better rewards.

    Let’s say there’s a ratio of work to rewards and in a regular season of BG, reaching GC and 300K solo points for a valiant requires a ratio of 1:1 (work to rewards). In the case of BG22, it feels to me like the ratio has shifted somewhat in Kabam’s favor, maybe 1.5:1. Again, not a tragedy by any means, but feels like Kabam is getting the better end of the deal.
  • FeydRauthaFeydRautha Member Posts: 92 ★
    DNA3000 said:

    Herbal_Taxman said:

    This is obvious but I haven’t seen it said anywhere — there’s a fundamental difference between the Necro realm event (Road) and the way realm events are structured now. Road was a bonus on top of something we were already doing. Everyone was grinding Necro primarily because of the Necro rewards; the Road rewards were simply icing on the cake.

    Now, Kabam has shifted the structure so the realm event rewards are the only incentive. By taking anway regular BG season rewards and leaving us only with the realm event rewards, it’s just kabam asking us to do more for less. I’m glad they are trying to innovate and I was happy to see Crashed’s response to the other thread. But as it’s currently conceived, it’s another example of Kabam using new event structures to subtly move the goalposts on the player base.

    Road to the Crypt was an exception, or rather Necropolis was the exception upon which Road to the Crypt was built. You can't expect Realm events to be patterns on the same sort of situation, because Necropolis is the sort of thing we might expect to see once every few years.

    I get the complaint that they are removing the solo and alliance base rewards and replacing them with the Realm event rewards, but the devs hands are a bit tied here. They want the Realm rewards themselves to be high enough to be noteworthy, but they cannot simply conjure rewards out of thin air, as most players think they can do. The game economy has reward budgets built into it, and if they preserve the normal BG rewards, that significantly limits how high they can make the Realm rewards, to the point where they can seem trivial to many players.

    We've run into this problem before. When players complained that, say, Act or EQ maps did not have reasonable rewards for doing paths - it was completion, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, exploration - the devs tried to add path rewards to change that. But those came in large part from the exploration rewards themselves. They couldn't add *both* high path rewards *and* high exploration rewards. Something had to give. There are many instances of this happening, and while players continue to think devs can just add rewards where ever they want, they just can't.

    If Crashed is looking at boosting the rewards for BG S22, he's looking for somewhere to take those rewards from. He probably won't say where, and if it isn't obvious from the structure we might never know, but rewards aren't just random numbers.
    Can’t? More like won’t. Let’s not pretend that these rewards are some rare, limited resources that they will run out of if they become a bit more generous. They have to create this illusion of tight economy because not being generous is in their favor. Funny how this ‘balanced rewards’ is only a thing for people who grind without spending but game balance goes out the window as soon as you open your wallet.
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 5,734 ★★★★★
    FeydRautha said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Herbal_Taxman said:

    This is obvious but I haven’t seen it said anywhere — there’s a fundamental difference between the Necro realm event (Road) and the way realm events are structured now. Road was a bonus on top of something we were already doing. Everyone was grinding Necro primarily because of the Necro rewards; the Road rewards were simply icing on the cake.

    Now, Kabam has shifted the structure so the realm event rewards are the only incentive. By taking anway regular BG season rewards and leaving us only with the realm event rewards, it’s just kabam asking us to do more for less. I’m glad they are trying to innovate and I was happy to see Crashed’s response to the other thread. But as it’s currently conceived, it’s another example of Kabam using new event structures to subtly move the goalposts on the player base.

    Road to the Crypt was an exception, or rather Necropolis was the exception upon which Road to the Crypt was built. You can't expect Realm events to be patterns on the same sort of situation, because Necropolis is the sort of thing we might expect to see once every few years.

    I get the complaint that they are removing the solo and alliance base rewards and replacing them with the Realm event rewards, but the devs hands are a bit tied here. They want the Realm rewards themselves to be high enough to be noteworthy, but they cannot simply conjure rewards out of thin air, as most players think they can do. The game economy has reward budgets built into it, and if they preserve the normal BG rewards, that significantly limits how high they can make the Realm rewards, to the point where they can seem trivial to many players.

    We've run into this problem before. When players complained that, say, Act or EQ maps did not have reasonable rewards for doing paths - it was completion, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, exploration - the devs tried to add path rewards to change that. But those came in large part from the exploration rewards themselves. They couldn't add *both* high path rewards *and* high exploration rewards. Something had to give. There are many instances of this happening, and while players continue to think devs can just add rewards where ever they want, they just can't.

    If Crashed is looking at boosting the rewards for BG S22, he's looking for somewhere to take those rewards from. He probably won't say where, and if it isn't obvious from the structure we might never know, but rewards aren't just random numbers.
    Can’t? More like won’t. Let’s not pretend that these rewards are some rare, limited resources that they will run out of if they become a bit more generous. They have to create this illusion of tight economy because not being generous is in their favor. Funny how this ‘balanced rewards’ is only a thing for people who grind without spending but game balance goes out the window as soon as you open your wallet.
    Err that's how a business works, if the free stuff wasn't balanced, there is no incentive to pay for more stuff...
  • FeydRauthaFeydRautha Member Posts: 92 ★
    BringPopcorn said:

    FeydRautha said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Herbal_Taxman said:

    This is obvious but I haven’t seen it said anywhere — there’s a fundamental difference between the Necro realm event (Road) and the way realm events are structured now. Road was a bonus on top of something we were already doing. Everyone was grinding Necro primarily because of the Necro rewards; the Road rewards were simply icing on the cake.

    Now, Kabam has shifted the structure so the realm event rewards are the only incentive. By taking anway regular BG season rewards and leaving us only with the realm event rewards, it’s just kabam asking us to do more for less. I’m glad they are trying to innovate and I was happy to see Crashed’s response to the other thread. But as it’s currently conceived, it’s another example of Kabam using new event structures to subtly move the goalposts on the player base.

    Road to the Crypt was an exception, or rather Necropolis was the exception upon which Road to the Crypt was built. You can't expect Realm events to be patterns on the same sort of situation, because Necropolis is the sort of thing we might expect to see once every few years.

    I get the complaint that they are removing the solo and alliance base rewards and replacing them with the Realm event rewards, but the devs hands are a bit tied here. They want the Realm rewards themselves to be high enough to be noteworthy, but they cannot simply conjure rewards out of thin air, as most players think they can do. The game economy has reward budgets built into it, and if they preserve the normal BG rewards, that significantly limits how high they can make the Realm rewards, to the point where they can seem trivial to many players.

    We've run into this problem before. When players complained that, say, Act or EQ maps did not have reasonable rewards for doing paths - it was completion, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, exploration - the devs tried to add path rewards to change that. But those came in large part from the exploration rewards themselves. They couldn't add *both* high path rewards *and* high exploration rewards. Something had to give. There are many instances of this happening, and while players continue to think devs can just add rewards where ever they want, they just can't.

    If Crashed is looking at boosting the rewards for BG S22, he's looking for somewhere to take those rewards from. He probably won't say where, and if it isn't obvious from the structure we might never know, but rewards aren't just random numbers.
    Can’t? More like won’t. Let’s not pretend that these rewards are some rare, limited resources that they will run out of if they become a bit more generous. They have to create this illusion of tight economy because not being generous is in their favor. Funny how this ‘balanced rewards’ is only a thing for people who grind without spending but game balance goes out the window as soon as you open your wallet.
    Err that's how a business works, if the free stuff wasn't balanced, there is no incentive to pay for more stuff...
    Thanks for stating the obvious.
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