Before I provide an update, I just want to say that players tend to look at the game economy different than we do. We look at it holistically - are players who are engaged in the game progressing? The answer right now is definitely yes. Think about your own accounts compared to a year ago. If you play the game regularly I guaranteed you have made substantial progress, regardless of how much you are spending.
A larger portion of rewards have been focused on events this year. We do this because we see a clear signal that it drives more player engagement than focusing those rewards into our regular modes. That doesn't mean they will never be updated, but it does mean more of the baseline reward budget is going to come from special events and things like the Daily Super Event.
Arenas - I said in a different thread, you don't want us to update Arenas. It would almost certainly result in lower Unit yields per time spent than the current tuning.
.
Hey Crashed. Thanks as always for the info. Can I ask for one clarification though? You mention you don’t think an economy change in arenas would ultimately benefit the players and I certainly understand your point for the ones Monday to Saturday. However, would it be possible to tweak just Sunday and maybe throw in som 6* shards or a couple units. I can imagine that would be game breaking
If they go back to touch the sunday arenas, they're going to touch the normal ones too
opinion or fact? what insider info do you have?
When the arenas were refactored from the original four to the current three arena structure, I was one of the people in the pseudo working group of CCP players giving feedback to Kabam about the changes, and helping to analyze different variations of the changes and reward structures.
If they go back to look at the Sunday arenas, they will almost certainly do so as part of a holistic review of all arenas. There are things I can say about the process and things I probably cannot directly comment on, but one thing I will say is the devs were very open about the thought process during that exchange. Not only what the requirements and limitations were surrounding the arena refactor, but even *why* an arena refactor was happening. While I cannot speak for the devs and they are free to change opinions whenever they want, the fundamentals of game development and game economy design don't change.
Every property of the arenas, from the rewards to the champs you're allowed to use to the milestone point structure are all interconnected. When we tried to change any one of them during the arena redesign, we ended up changing all of them to match, or having the change rejected because it would require changing all of them to match. And the arenas need to fit within the large game economy, which itself places constraints on things (re:units).
Collectively, the arena reward availability is *far higher* than it was intended to be, due to a variety of inflation effects. I say that as someone who knows what the original constraints the arenas were designed to fit in were, and I don't think I'm giving away any super secret idea there. Even Crashed has hinted in live streams that arena rewards are living outside the lines at the moment.
The devs could sprinkle a few rewards into the Sunday arenas and call it a day, but they won't because they have better things to do than do some small thing no one will appreciate. They could do a complete overhaul but I doubt they would do that without some compelling reason to do so. One compelling reason to do so would be to do that as part of a complete overhaul of the arenas to update them for modern roster strength. That would allow them to also review what the rewards and commensurate appropriate roster strength would be for a hypothetical new set of Sunday arenas.
You don't want them to do that. You really really don't.
I’ll farm some disagrees here from the usual suspects, but here goes:
1. DNA may have some inside knowledge but conspicuously the person my comment was directed at is silent 2. To DNA, I understand the points you are making about not wanting to overall all arenas as it may ultimately be detrimental for the overall player base. 3. I will also admit that I’m not a game designer. I don’t do dev work. I may not understand the intricacies of games. 4. I am a consumer of many forms of entertainment. I spend money on things that I enjoy. 5. The reality after 10 years of game play is that there are currently more frustrations than there have ever been. 6. So if some long time players want a few things to be tweaked to make things a little more enjoyable, well maybe that’s worth listening to. 7. Lastly I’m a realist and I know this will fall on deaf ears.
TLDR: I accept that Kabam makes their own rules, nothing we want will change and that we will continue to play.
You were listened to..
Crashed responded in this thread and gave good reasons behind Kabams decisions which also backs up what DNA said. You've also been listened to, but you equate the proof of that only if Kabam implements your ideas or does what you specifically ask for.
Kabam has kept this game running for 10 years. At some point, you have to concede that they know what they're doing in some capacity.
As usual you focus on only the things that you want. In my initial response I acknowledged crashed’s response and expressed thanks for it. I had one additional point for which I requested clarification and was jumped on my multiple non Kabam employees. Nothing new to see here so I will accept my fate and move on.
I feel like there’s a fundamental disconnect in what Kabam and I consider high value rewards, especially for BG
Never once in my post did I say I wanted the economy to speed up and that I wanted every store to have the highest end rewards. Why can’t they tune down the cost of t6cc since it’s so much more available now? Why can’t they lower the cost of relic shards and increase the cap? Are you telling me that having more 5* relics to purchase will break the game economy? Reduce some of the costs and increase the caps on certain items. 7* shards aren’t worth as much as they once were, another thing that could have a lowered cost
For the ranked rewards, 6k 7* shards for placing in Quantum 1 is a joke. You also only get like 1k 6* relic shards. Is that all the game economy can spare? If you’re telling me some resources that can be spared and should be increased for the level of effort can’t be changed, I’m calling bs
I think what Crashed actually meant was: if we make r5 and r2 materials easier to acquire then we can't sell them to you during p2w events because they'd lose a lot of value, so instead we'd be forced to sell you a ton of r3 mats but we don't want to do that yet cause we want to keep those rare and p2w whale exclusive so we can keep milking for big money.
Before I provide an update, I just want to say that players tend to look at the game economy different than we do. We look at it holistically - are players who are engaged in the game progressing? The answer right now is definitely yes. Think about your own accounts compared to a year ago. If you play the game regularly I guaranteed you have made substantial progress, regardless of how much you are spending.
A larger portion of rewards have been focused on events this year. We do this because we see a clear signal that it drives more player engagement than focusing those rewards into our regular modes. That doesn't mean they will never be updated, but it does mean more of the baseline reward budget is going to come from special events and things like the Daily Super Event.
Arenas - I said in a different thread, you don't want us to update Arenas. It would almost certainly result in lower Unit yields per time spent than the current tuning.
.
Hey Crashed. Thanks as always for the info. Can I ask for one clarification though? You mention you don’t think an economy change in arenas would ultimately benefit the players and I certainly understand your point for the ones Monday to Saturday. However, would it be possible to tweak just Sunday and maybe throw in som 6* shards or a couple units. I can imagine that would be game breaking
If they go back to touch the sunday arenas, they're going to touch the normal ones too
opinion or fact? what insider info do you have?
When the arenas were refactored from the original four to the current three arena structure, I was one of the people in the pseudo working group of CCP players giving feedback to Kabam about the changes, and helping to analyze different variations of the changes and reward structures.
If they go back to look at the Sunday arenas, they will almost certainly do so as part of a holistic review of all arenas. There are things I can say about the process and things I probably cannot directly comment on, but one thing I will say is the devs were very open about the thought process during that exchange. Not only what the requirements and limitations were surrounding the arena refactor, but even *why* an arena refactor was happening. While I cannot speak for the devs and they are free to change opinions whenever they want, the fundamentals of game development and game economy design don't change.
Every property of the arenas, from the rewards to the champs you're allowed to use to the milestone point structure are all interconnected. When we tried to change any one of them during the arena redesign, we ended up changing all of them to match, or having the change rejected because it would require changing all of them to match. And the arenas need to fit within the large game economy, which itself places constraints on things (re:units).
Collectively, the arena reward availability is *far higher* than it was intended to be, due to a variety of inflation effects. I say that as someone who knows what the original constraints the arenas were designed to fit in were, and I don't think I'm giving away any super secret idea there. Even Crashed has hinted in live streams that arena rewards are living outside the lines at the moment.
The devs could sprinkle a few rewards into the Sunday arenas and call it a day, but they won't because they have better things to do than do some small thing no one will appreciate. They could do a complete overhaul but I doubt they would do that without some compelling reason to do so. One compelling reason to do so would be to do that as part of a complete overhaul of the arenas to update them for modern roster strength. That would allow them to also review what the rewards and commensurate appropriate roster strength would be for a hypothetical new set of Sunday arenas.
You don't want them to do that. You really really don't.
I’ll farm some disagrees here from the usual suspects, but here goes:
1. DNA may have some inside knowledge but conspicuously the person my comment was directed at is silent 2. To DNA, I understand the points you are making about not wanting to overall all arenas as it may ultimately be detrimental for the overall player base. 3. I will also admit that I’m not a game designer. I don’t do dev work. I may not understand the intricacies of games. 4. I am a consumer of many forms of entertainment. I spend money on things that I enjoy. 5. The reality after 10 years of game play is that there are currently more frustrations than there have ever been. 6. So if some long time players want a few things to be tweaked to make things a little more enjoyable, well maybe that’s worth listening to. 7. Lastly I’m a realist and I know this will fall on deaf ears.
TLDR: I accept that Kabam makes their own rules, nothing we want will change and that we will continue to play.
Inconspicuously, I have a life which doesn't leave much time to argue with children who are whining on a game forum about something they have admitted to not knowing much about.
I speak the way I do about the game because I pay attention to what the devs and designers say, I work in the industry and know how it works, and have played the game for a long time and know how it works.
It was stated multiple times what would happen if they shifted their gaze toward anything arena related and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to take a step back and look at how ridiculously generous kabam is with giving out their premium currency for free.
we don't know how game design works and we're our own worst enemy.
1. asking for "more" means accelerating the economy and getting to 8 stars faster...is that what we want?
2. asking for "more everywhere" makes no sense because they already have new and better stores and things that will be updated regularly that will be easier for kabam to make and better for us. why buff sunday arenas, solo shards, and summoner advancement if they can just roll many things into a simple daily event and buff the trader's outpost and BG store?
3. updating arena rewards and buffing the sunday arenas means kabam adjusting the milestone requirements and diverting already existing units to the sunday ones. this means we do more work for the same rewards. who the heck wants this?
not to sound rude but let's hope kabam doesn't listen to most of the stuff posted.
I feel like there’s a fundamental disconnect in what Kabam and I consider high value rewards, especially for BG
Never once in my post did I say I wanted the economy to speed up and that I wanted every store to have the highest end rewards. Why can’t they tune down the cost of t6cc since it’s so much more available now? Why can’t they lower the cost of relic shards and increase the cap? Are you telling me that having more 5* relics to purchase will break the game economy? Reduce some of the costs and increase the caps on certain items. 7* shards aren’t worth as much as they once were, another thing that could have a lowered cost
For the ranked rewards, 6k 7* shards for placing in Quantum 1 is a joke. You also only get like 1k 6* relic shards. Is that all the game economy can spare? If you’re telling me some resources that can be spared and should be increased for the level of effort can’t be changed, I’m calling bs
you say you don't want an accelerated economy but you're asking for cheaper t6cc, more 5*s relics, and a lowered cost of 7* shards "since they aren't worth as much". you're asking for acceleration lol
I feel like there’s a fundamental disconnect in what Kabam and I consider high value rewards, especially for BG
Never once in my post did I say I wanted the economy to speed up and that I wanted every store to have the highest end rewards. Why can’t they tune down the cost of t6cc since it’s so much more available now? Why can’t they lower the cost of relic shards and increase the cap? Are you telling me that having more 5* relics to purchase will break the game economy? Reduce some of the costs and increase the caps on certain items. 7* shards aren’t worth as much as they once were, another thing that could have a lowered cost
For the ranked rewards, 6k 7* shards for placing in Quantum 1 is a joke. You also only get like 1k 6* relic shards. Is that all the game economy can spare? If you’re telling me some resources that can be spared and should be increased for the level of effort can’t be changed, I’m calling bs
you say you don't want an accelerated economy but you're asking for cheaper t6cc, more 5*s relics, and a lowered cost of 7* shards "since they aren't worth as much". you're asking for acceleration lol
Please tell me how more access to 5* relics and slightly cheapened 7* shards would negatively effect the economy. I’d love to hear how having access to more r5’s and r2’s would kill the momentum they have now and make the lifespan of a 7* lower. I’m not asking for the big r3 materials to be cheapened or for them to bring r4 materials in. We’ve already seen how much 7* and T6CC shards have plummeted in value and their cost is way too high for the current state of the economy
Giving VALIANTS (endgame players) access to more r5 or r2 champs isn’t going to kill the game nor is it unhealthy. What are they going to do with relics? They’ve been paused. Is it going to kill them to include more relic shards? The current valiant store still thinks that T5CC is worth like 1600 trophy tokens which is a joke
Before I provide an update, I just want to say that players tend to look at the game economy different than we do. We look at it holistically - are players who are engaged in the game progressing? The answer right now is definitely yes. Think about your own accounts compared to a year ago. If you play the game regularly I guaranteed you have made substantial progress, regardless of how much you are spending.
A larger portion of rewards have been focused on events this year. We do this because we see a clear signal that it drives more player engagement than focusing those rewards into our regular modes. That doesn't mean they will never be updated, but it does mean more of the baseline reward budget is going to come from special events and things like the Daily Super Event.
Arenas - I said in a different thread, you don't want us to update Arenas. It would almost certainly result in lower Unit yields per time spent than the current tuning.
.
Hey Crashed. Thanks as always for the info. Can I ask for one clarification though? You mention you don’t think an economy change in arenas would ultimately benefit the players and I certainly understand your point for the ones Monday to Saturday. However, would it be possible to tweak just Sunday and maybe throw in som 6* shards or a couple units. I can imagine that would be game breaking
If they go back to touch the sunday arenas, they're going to touch the normal ones too
opinion or fact? what insider info do you have?
When the arenas were refactored from the original four to the current three arena structure, I was one of the people in the pseudo working group of CCP players giving feedback to Kabam about the changes, and helping to analyze different variations of the changes and reward structures.
If they go back to look at the Sunday arenas, they will almost certainly do so as part of a holistic review of all arenas. There are things I can say about the process and things I probably cannot directly comment on, but one thing I will say is the devs were very open about the thought process during that exchange. Not only what the requirements and limitations were surrounding the arena refactor, but even *why* an arena refactor was happening. While I cannot speak for the devs and they are free to change opinions whenever they want, the fundamentals of game development and game economy design don't change.
Every property of the arenas, from the rewards to the champs you're allowed to use to the milestone point structure are all interconnected. When we tried to change any one of them during the arena redesign, we ended up changing all of them to match, or having the change rejected because it would require changing all of them to match. And the arenas need to fit within the large game economy, which itself places constraints on things (re:units).
Collectively, the arena reward availability is *far higher* than it was intended to be, due to a variety of inflation effects. I say that as someone who knows what the original constraints the arenas were designed to fit in were, and I don't think I'm giving away any super secret idea there. Even Crashed has hinted in live streams that arena rewards are living outside the lines at the moment.
The devs could sprinkle a few rewards into the Sunday arenas and call it a day, but they won't because they have better things to do than do some small thing no one will appreciate. They could do a complete overhaul but I doubt they would do that without some compelling reason to do so. One compelling reason to do so would be to do that as part of a complete overhaul of the arenas to update them for modern roster strength. That would allow them to also review what the rewards and commensurate appropriate roster strength would be for a hypothetical new set of Sunday arenas.
You don't want them to do that. You really really don't.
I’ll farm some disagrees here from the usual suspects, but here goes:
1. DNA may have some inside knowledge but conspicuously the person my comment was directed at is silent 2. To DNA, I understand the points you are making about not wanting to overall all arenas as it may ultimately be detrimental for the overall player base. 3. I will also admit that I’m not a game designer. I don’t do dev work. I may not understand the intricacies of games. 4. I am a consumer of many forms of entertainment. I spend money on things that I enjoy. 5. The reality after 10 years of game play is that there are currently more frustrations than there have ever been. 6. So if some long time players want a few things to be tweaked to make things a little more enjoyable, well maybe that’s worth listening to. 7. Lastly I’m a realist and I know this will fall on deaf ears.
TLDR: I accept that Kabam makes their own rules, nothing we want will change and that we will continue to play.
You were listened to..
Crashed responded in this thread and gave good reasons behind Kabams decisions which also backs up what DNA said. You've also been listened to, but you equate the proof of that only if Kabam implements your ideas or does what you specifically ask for.
Kabam has kept this game running for 10 years. At some point, you have to concede that they know what they're doing in some capacity.
They thought they knew what they were doing last year with the Banquet event and then this year they admitted it was bad. Kabam makes mistakes too, if they leave these garbage store prices as they are people are going to start losing interest pretty soon. Maybe it won't kill the game but they will lose people regardless.
I didn't say they don't make mistakes. I said they've kept the game going for 10 years so they have some idea of what they're doing. That means they aren't perfect but still successful.
Arenas - I said in a different thread, you don't want us to update Arenas. It would almost certainly result in lower Unit yields per time spent than the current tuning.
@Kabam Crashed Would the decreased units go towards other modes of the game? If so, then I'm sure majority would be in favor of it.
You misunderstood Crashed. Crashed didn’t say Kabam would reduce the number of units in the arenas, potentially allowing for adding them elsewhere. He said they would take much longer to get. And that does not directly free up units to go elsewhere because that change would be a balancing change, not a shift of rewards.
On the theory of “well, if you’re going to sell more stuff you have to give us more units so we can continue to get all the stuff” if Crashed wants to address that one directly I would love to hear his own version of “say what?” Because otherwise I am never going to hear his version of that one, because that’s not a question I would be comfortable asking a game developer with a straight face.
I feel like there’s a fundamental disconnect in what Kabam and I consider high value rewards, especially for BG
Never once in my post did I say I wanted the economy to speed up and that I wanted every store to have the highest end rewards. Why can’t they tune down the cost of t6cc since it’s so much more available now? Why can’t they lower the cost of relic shards and increase the cap? Are you telling me that having more 5* relics to purchase will break the game economy? Reduce some of the costs and increase the caps on certain items. 7* shards aren’t worth as much as they once were, another thing that could have a lowered cost
For the ranked rewards, 6k 7* shards for placing in Quantum 1 is a joke. You also only get like 1k 6* relic shards. Is that all the game economy can spare? If you’re telling me some resources that can be spared and should be increased for the level of effort can’t be changed, I’m calling bs
I think what Crashed actually meant was: if we make r5 and r2 materials easier to acquire then we can't sell them to you during p2w events because they'd lose a lot of value, so instead we'd be forced to sell you a ton of r3 mats but we don't want to do that yet cause we want to keep those rare and p2w whale exclusive so we can keep milking for big money.
That’s essentially what I got from that. I feel like between the serpent balance post and everything they’ve lost the plot big time. When the people who place at the top of BG have been complaining for ages about how outdated the rewards are for the time investment (for months mind you) and when you regularly have content creators call out stuff like this but you sit there talking about how valuable they are and how great everything is, I feel like it’s just pure bs at that point
Not to mention the people acting like some slightly lowered costs for stuff like 5* relic shards are going to break the game economy or speed up the lifecycle of the game or something
I think I’ll be taking a step back too. Still playing here and there but I’m tired of the champ releases, the AI, and the lack of updates. Still excited for banquet and the other big stuff but I think I need a little break now too lol. Very clear that they’ve made up their mind
Before I provide an update, I just want to say that players tend to look at the game economy different than we do. We look at it holistically - are players who are engaged in the game progressing? The answer right now is definitely yes. Think about your own accounts compared to a year ago. If you play the game regularly I guaranteed you have made substantial progress, regardless of how much you are spending.
A larger portion of rewards have been focused on events this year. We do this because we see a clear signal that it drives more player engagement than focusing those rewards into our regular modes. That doesn't mean they will never be updated, but it does mean more of the baseline reward budget is going to come from special events and things like the Daily Super Event.
Arenas - I said in a different thread, you don't want us to update Arenas. It would almost certainly result in lower Unit yields per time spent than the current tuning.
.
Hey Crashed. Thanks as always for the info. Can I ask for one clarification though? You mention you don’t think an economy change in arenas would ultimately benefit the players and I certainly understand your point for the ones Monday to Saturday. However, would it be possible to tweak just Sunday and maybe throw in som 6* shards or a couple units. I can imagine that would be game breaking
If they go back to touch the sunday arenas, they're going to touch the normal ones too
opinion or fact? what insider info do you have?
When the arenas were refactored from the original four to the current three arena structure, I was one of the people in the pseudo working group of CCP players giving feedback to Kabam about the changes, and helping to analyze different variations of the changes and reward structures.
If they go back to look at the Sunday arenas, they will almost certainly do so as part of a holistic review of all arenas. There are things I can say about the process and things I probably cannot directly comment on, but one thing I will say is the devs were very open about the thought process during that exchange. Not only what the requirements and limitations were surrounding the arena refactor, but even *why* an arena refactor was happening. While I cannot speak for the devs and they are free to change opinions whenever they want, the fundamentals of game development and game economy design don't change.
Every property of the arenas, from the rewards to the champs you're allowed to use to the milestone point structure are all interconnected. When we tried to change any one of them during the arena redesign, we ended up changing all of them to match, or having the change rejected because it would require changing all of them to match. And the arenas need to fit within the large game economy, which itself places constraints on things (re:units).
Collectively, the arena reward availability is *far higher* than it was intended to be, due to a variety of inflation effects. I say that as someone who knows what the original constraints the arenas were designed to fit in were, and I don't think I'm giving away any super secret idea there. Even Crashed has hinted in live streams that arena rewards are living outside the lines at the moment.
The devs could sprinkle a few rewards into the Sunday arenas and call it a day, but they won't because they have better things to do than do some small thing no one will appreciate. They could do a complete overhaul but I doubt they would do that without some compelling reason to do so. One compelling reason to do so would be to do that as part of a complete overhaul of the arenas to update them for modern roster strength. That would allow them to also review what the rewards and commensurate appropriate roster strength would be for a hypothetical new set of Sunday arenas.
You don't want them to do that. You really really don't.
I’ll farm some disagrees here from the usual suspects, but here goes:
1. DNA may have some inside knowledge but conspicuously the person my comment was directed at is silent 2. To DNA, I understand the points you are making about not wanting to overall all arenas as it may ultimately be detrimental for the overall player base. 3. I will also admit that I’m not a game designer. I don’t do dev work. I may not understand the intricacies of games. 4. I am a consumer of many forms of entertainment. I spend money on things that I enjoy. 5. The reality after 10 years of game play is that there are currently more frustrations than there have ever been. 6. So if some long time players want a few things to be tweaked to make things a little more enjoyable, well maybe that’s worth listening to. 7. Lastly I’m a realist and I know this will fall on deaf ears.
TLDR: I accept that Kabam makes their own rules, nothing we want will change and that we will continue to play.
You were listened to..
Crashed responded in this thread and gave good reasons behind Kabams decisions which also backs up what DNA said. You've also been listened to, but you equate the proof of that only if Kabam implements your ideas or does what you specifically ask for.
Kabam has kept this game running for 10 years. At some point, you have to concede that they know what they're doing in some capacity.
As usual you focus on only the things that you want. In my initial response I acknowledged crashed’s response and expressed thanks for it. I had one additional point for which I requested clarification and was jumped on my multiple non Kabam employees. Nothing new to see here so I will accept my fate and move on.
I wasn't responding to your initial response was I? As usual, you toss around "Kabam employees" because someone disagrees with you as if you're someone who shouldn't be opposed.
I was responding to points 6 and 7 in your post that I quoted. Not your initial post. You can't comment multiple times and pretend like people can only respond to the first thing you said.
You said long time players should be listened to as in if they aren't and also what you've said will fall on deaf ears. Neither which are true.
Time and time again, mods have told us they take our feedback and give it to the game teams. Many ideas from the community have been brought to the game. But just because you believe something should happen and it doesn't, doesn't mean it wasn't heard. It just means it doesn't fit with what they're trying to do.
There's reasons why none of us in the community are economy designers for a mobile game. Most of the time the ideas are for what benefits "me" and not the longevity of the game.
Most of the community aren't big picture people. They aren't stepping back and connecting the dots like how Kabam does it.
Again, just so you're not confused, I'm not replying to your original comment. I am replying to this comment in reference to your comment with the list. Got it?
I feel like there’s a fundamental disconnect in what Kabam and I consider high value rewards, especially for BG
Never once in my post did I say I wanted the economy to speed up and that I wanted every store to have the highest end rewards. Why can’t they tune down the cost of t6cc since it’s so much more available now? Why can’t they lower the cost of relic shards and increase the cap? Are you telling me that having more 5* relics to purchase will break the game economy? Reduce some of the costs and increase the caps on certain items. 7* shards aren’t worth as much as they once were, another thing that could have a lowered cost
For the ranked rewards, 6k 7* shards for placing in Quantum 1 is a joke. You also only get like 1k 6* relic shards. Is that all the game economy can spare? If you’re telling me some resources that can be spared and should be increased for the level of effort can’t be changed, I’m calling bs
you say you don't want an accelerated economy but you're asking for cheaper t6cc, more 5*s relics, and a lowered cost of 7* shards "since they aren't worth as much". you're asking for acceleration lol
Please tell me how more access to 5* relics and slightly cheapened 7* shards would negatively effect the economy. I’d love to hear how having access to more r5’s and r2’s would kill the momentum they have now and make the lifespan of a 7* lower. I’m not asking for the big r3 materials to be cheapened or for them to bring r4 materials in. We’ve already seen how much 7* and T6CC shards have plummeted in value and their cost is way too high for the current state of the economy
Giving VALIANTS (endgame players) access to more r5 or r2 champs isn’t going to kill the game nor is it unhealthy. What are they going to do with relics? They’ve been paused. Is it going to kill them to include more relic shards? The current valiant store still thinks that T5CC is worth like 1600 trophy tokens which is a joke
You're looking at BG rewards as a singular source. As Crashed stated, they have a budget for rewards. Those 7* shards are part of that budget for everything happening that month or time period.
Say they have 30k 7* shards they are able to give for that update, those BG rewards are factored into that budget.
If they took the rest of the year off on champ releases and fixed the damned game, it would likely make them much more in the long run.
For the 1000000000th time. That's not how game dev works
Do you work for Kabam? Is that you trying to clown on me Mr. Diggety?
If they did what you are suggesting, the developers would not be working for Kabam either.
By fix the game I meant actual game bugs. The stores being trash isn’t too big of a deal for me. I understand why they are mega-low priority.
I just don’t try to gaslight other posters with attempts to logically handwave the issue. They need to make revenue and that’s fine.
New champ releases are the engine that powers this game. The entire game monetization foundation is built upon it. Not only that, new champ releases are one of the few ways in which this ten year old game can compete with the upstarts. If they were to stop releasing new champs, that would be blood in the water. The game would smell like it was going into maintenance mode. And once you give people that impression, it can be virtually impossible to reverse it.
I'm not saying bugs don't hurt, but for bugs to hurt the game, someone actually has to play the game to experience them. The biggest problem a ten year old game faces is getting people to pick it up in the first place. If the new shinys stop coming out, we stop getting new players. And all the old players come from the new players. All the spenders come from the free to play revolving door.
The Kabam devs knows this, and would never risk tampering with this process. Kabam management also knows this, and would never let the devs risk this. Netmarble also knows this, and would probably never allow Kabam itself to tamper with this process.
I agree that new champs power the engine… but more specifically its new attackers that are enjoyable to use and easy to understand. Not this middling year of complexity and cancerous defenders.
In the short term, sure. But in the long term, if those new enjoyable attackers don’t have something noteworthy to flex on, eventually those new enjoyable attackers will become stale and boring, because once the current enjoyable attackers have nothing that challenges them the new ones won’t have anything to do.
Nobody wants to face particularly tough defenders, nobody wants to see their current skill set made moot and nobody wants to be missing the best options. But that’s what this game is: it is an open ended lifecycle game as a service that has to keep creating the challenges that the next set of champions and rank ups are going to deal with.
Do they always get the balance right? Of course not. Balancing the strength of defenders and attackers is not just a numbers game, it is a people game. What makes defenders hard and attackers great is what the player base does with them. That’s inherently unpredictable. There’s no way to predict how fast and how well a million people will learn to fight a new champ. We enjoy the fat and happy days of powerful attackers and push over defenders, but that is unsustainable. We need the dark days of nightmare defenders and hair pulling content to make us appreciate the next set of new shiny attackers.
Once upon a time, the devs were not making difficult defenders to drive the sales of new champs. They just upped the prestige of them to force people to chase champs they didn’t even ever use. Less stressful, sure, but also more pointless. For all the revives I have to farm, I still prefer this way better.
I feel like there’s a fundamental disconnect in what Kabam and I consider high value rewards, especially for BG
Never once in my post did I say I wanted the economy to speed up and that I wanted every store to have the highest end rewards. Why can’t they tune down the cost of t6cc since it’s so much more available now? Why can’t they lower the cost of relic shards and increase the cap? Are you telling me that having more 5* relics to purchase will break the game economy? Reduce some of the costs and increase the caps on certain items. 7* shards aren’t worth as much as they once were, another thing that could have a lowered cost
For the ranked rewards, 6k 7* shards for placing in Quantum 1 is a joke. You also only get like 1k 6* relic shards. Is that all the game economy can spare? If you’re telling me some resources that can be spared and should be increased for the level of effort can’t be changed, I’m calling bs
you say you don't want an accelerated economy but you're asking for cheaper t6cc, more 5*s relics, and a lowered cost of 7* shards "since they aren't worth as much". you're asking for acceleration lol
Please tell me how more access to 5* relics and slightly cheapened 7* shards would negatively effect the economy.
No designer is likely to say this directly, but I know they think it so I’ll say it. If all you want is “slightly cheapened” 7* shards, then you would be admitting they aren’t very far off the correct valuation now.
People always think this helps their case: “all I want is just this little tiny thing that can’t possibly be problematic.” However, by definition if the change you want is so small it can’t possibly be problematic, the situation can’t possibly be problematic now.
The only suggestions that are worth pursuing are the ones that change things meaningfully. In twenty years, I don’t think I’ve ever seriously told a dev that one of my suggestions was “only a slight change” Because if they actually believe me, they’ll forget about it ten seconds later.
If you think things are *very* wrong, say they are very wrong. Suggest the *significant* change that is *necessary* to fix it. You probably won’t get it, because daring changes rarely happen. But trying to slip it past the devs as a tiny insignificant change has exactly zero chance of happening.
Take that from someone that has gotten the devs to listen to many daring suggestions. And laugh many of them out the door, but still.
I feel like there’s a fundamental disconnect in what Kabam and I consider high value rewards, especially for BG
Never once in my post did I say I wanted the economy to speed up and that I wanted every store to have the highest end rewards. Why can’t they tune down the cost of t6cc since it’s so much more available now? Why can’t they lower the cost of relic shards and increase the cap? Are you telling me that having more 5* relics to purchase will break the game economy? Reduce some of the costs and increase the caps on certain items. 7* shards aren’t worth as much as they once were, another thing that could have a lowered cost
For the ranked rewards, 6k 7* shards for placing in Quantum 1 is a joke. You also only get like 1k 6* relic shards. Is that all the game economy can spare? If you’re telling me some resources that can be spared and should be increased for the level of effort can’t be changed, I’m calling bs
you say you don't want an accelerated economy but you're asking for cheaper t6cc, more 5*s relics, and a lowered cost of 7* shards "since they aren't worth as much". you're asking for acceleration lol
Please tell me how more access to 5* relics and slightly cheapened 7* shards would negatively effect the economy. I’d love to hear how having access to more r5’s and r2’s would kill the momentum they have now and make the lifespan of a 7* lower. I’m not asking for the big r3 materials to be cheapened or for them to bring r4 materials in. We’ve already seen how much 7* and T6CC shards have plummeted in value and their cost is way too high for the current state of the economy
Giving VALIANTS (endgame players) access to more r5 or r2 champs isn’t going to kill the game nor is it unhealthy. What are they going to do with relics? They’ve been paused. Is it going to kill them to include more relic shards? The current valiant store still thinks that T5CC is worth like 1600 trophy tokens which is a joke
asking for more r5s and r2s accelerates more players up the chain which means they need a new title faster which means quicker t7b and accelerating more players to valiant which also means more t4a.
more 5* relics will have the same effect. more 5*s relics means faster 5* saturation means accelerating 6*s and eventually putting out whatever's next.
everything is linked and simple sounding changes have secondary effects.
Fully agree with the post, all the stores and most rewards need updating for valiants.
last year we had the cap's commissary to get more people involved in alliance quests, but as far as I can remember other than the boost during that month the events haven't gotten any rewards bump or the game mode changed and improved.
the 7* champs not being moved into basic or titan so we can dupe them really doesn't make sense unless the champions that can be made available are too good for 7 stars.
Before I provide an update, I just want to say that players tend to look at the game economy different than we do. We look at it holistically - are players who are engaged in the game progressing? The answer right now is definitely yes. Think about your own accounts compared to a year ago. If you play the game regularly I guaranteed you have made substantial progress, regardless of how much you are spending.
I do feel this is very disingenuous if we look at account progress over a year, looking at mine, I wouldn't associate the progress to the stores but to story content, special events and the occasional monthly special event. There are good rewards in bg, aq and aw stores but the rate of getting them isn't good enough to call them valuable especially over a long time, why a year? why not a month or 3 months?.
and I will not farm arena even if all the units were there due to how time consuming the game mode is and the refusal to make it much better or have it open to be simulated.
I feel like there’s a fundamental disconnect in what Kabam and I consider high value rewards, especially for BG
Never once in my post did I say I wanted the economy to speed up and that I wanted every store to have the highest end rewards. Why can’t they tune down the cost of t6cc since it’s so much more available now? Why can’t they lower the cost of relic shards and increase the cap? Are you telling me that having more 5* relics to purchase will break the game economy? Reduce some of the costs and increase the caps on certain items. 7* shards aren’t worth as much as they once were, another thing that could have a lowered cost
For the ranked rewards, 6k 7* shards for placing in Quantum 1 is a joke. You also only get like 1k 6* relic shards. Is that all the game economy can spare? If you’re telling me some resources that can be spared and should be increased for the level of effort can’t be changed, I’m calling bs
I think what Crashed actually meant was: if we make r5 and r2 materials easier to acquire then we can't sell them to you during p2w events because they'd lose a lot of value, so instead we'd be forced to sell you a ton of r3 mats but we don't want to do that yet cause we want to keep those rare and p2w whale exclusive so we can keep milking for big money.
That’s essentially what I got from that. I feel like between the serpent balance post and everything they’ve lost the plot big time. When the people who place at the top of BG have been complaining for ages about how outdated the rewards are for the time investment (for months mind you) and when you regularly have content creators call out stuff like this but you sit there talking about how valuable they are and how great everything is, I feel like it’s just pure bs at that point
Not to mention the people acting like some slightly lowered costs for stuff like 5* relic shards are going to break the game economy or speed up the lifecycle of the game or something
I think I’ll be taking a step back too. Still playing here and there but I’m tired of the champ releases, the AI, and the lack of updates. Still excited for banquet and the other big stuff but I think I need a little break now too lol. Very clear that they’ve made up their mind
You definitely should, trust me you'll feel a lot better, I know I have lmao the mediocre champ design and the stores being trash have just ruined the game on so many levels. Not to mention all the other op defender bs and bugs.
I've been semi-retired for about three weeks now and I 100% agree with everything said here. This year overall has just been a mess for the game, and in my opinion it is one of the worst years for the game in general.
New releases have never been this disappointing, a couple months ago some were even trying to argue that the best champs usually came in the second half of the year yet September's over and we still have nothing, just more mediocre garbage or mid but nothing good. Even Shathra was a massive disappointment for me, I said I was going to get her pre-release and after seeing gameplay I was so disappointed (once again) I ended up not getting it and it drove me away from the game even further.
Stores are all garbage, I don't care what Crashed has to say (this time), doing AQ and BGs feels pointless (I had to leave my alliance since I stopped playing these game modes) when t6b t3a and t6cc are still this damn expensive. Do they not realize p2w players already have over 15 r3s and that gap is about to get wider after Cyberweekend and Banquet? How are f2p players supposed to keep up when rank up materials in the store are still this ridiculously overpriced even for Valiants?
Game is trash right now, worst state it's been in since I came back three years ago. I'm literally only doing SoS these days and nothing else, probably will fully quit after Banquet and come back when the Cyclops rework goes live lmao.
No wonder why I haven't seen you on forums for a while.
Also, why are you disappointed in Shathra? She seems like a good champion
Cause of damage, again. They keep designing these new champs around r3s and the result is mid damage almost always. Since I'm sick of waiting for them to release something decent this year I've just stopped playing the game for the most part, it's not fun for me anymore.
Yeah even this year's buffed champs have more damage (for the most part).
Also Count Nefaria? He's getting a lot of praise so far
Nefaria is also mid, overhyped as per usual by the white knights who think Kabam has been doing a great job this year.
Gotta disagree there. Only thing is that he should have had a way around unfazed without OGIM.
I feel like there’s a fundamental disconnect in what Kabam and I consider high value rewards, especially for BG
Never once in my post did I say I wanted the economy to speed up and that I wanted every store to have the highest end rewards. Why can’t they tune down the cost of t6cc since it’s so much more available now? Why can’t they lower the cost of relic shards and increase the cap? Are you telling me that having more 5* relics to purchase will break the game economy? Reduce some of the costs and increase the caps on certain items. 7* shards aren’t worth as much as they once were, another thing that could have a lowered cost
For the ranked rewards, 6k 7* shards for placing in Quantum 1 is a joke. You also only get like 1k 6* relic shards. Is that all the game economy can spare? If you’re telling me some resources that can be spared and should be increased for the level of effort can’t be changed, I’m calling bs
you say you don't want an accelerated economy but you're asking for cheaper t6cc, more 5*s relics, and a lowered cost of 7* shards "since they aren't worth as much". you're asking for acceleration lol
Please tell me how more access to 5* relics and slightly cheapened 7* shards would negatively effect the economy. I’d love to hear how having access to more r5’s and r2’s would kill the momentum they have now and make the lifespan of a 7* lower. I’m not asking for the big r3 materials to be cheapened or for them to bring r4 materials in. We’ve already seen how much 7* and T6CC shards have plummeted in value and their cost is way too high for the current state of the economy
Giving VALIANTS (endgame players) access to more r5 or r2 champs isn’t going to kill the game nor is it unhealthy. What are they going to do with relics? They’ve been paused. Is it going to kill them to include more relic shards? The current valiant store still thinks that T5CC is worth like 1600 trophy tokens which is a joke
asking for more r5s and r2s accelerates more players up the chain which means they need a new title faster which means quicker t7b and accelerating more players to valiant which also means more t4a.
more 5* relics will have the same effect. more 5*s relics means faster 5* saturation means accelerating 6*s and eventually putting out whatever's next.
everything is linked and simple sounding changes have secondary effects.
more r5/r2 is not moving anyone up the chain since the level required to move up to valiant is r3 7 stars, doesn't matter if you have 100 r5 or 1 as long as you're a valiant you are a valiant.
giving more r5 options is good because then people can rank up whoever they want when they want not necessarily saving for the best option (if you're not in a case to rank up champs as easily as they come) and more players can widen the option in their rosters.
and for relics as long as they are no new relics soon it's not a chase objective but a luxury to have, if you have all the relic doesn't mean anything different to not having half of them
I've been semi-retired for about three weeks now and I 100% agree with everything said here. This year overall has just been a mess for the game, and in my opinion it is one of the worst years for the game in general.
New releases have never been this disappointing, a couple months ago some were even trying to argue that the best champs usually came in the second half of the year yet September's over and we still have nothing, just more mediocre garbage or mid but nothing good. Even Shathra was a massive disappointment for me, I said I was going to get her pre-release and after seeing gameplay I was so disappointed (once again) I ended up not getting it and it drove me away from the game even further.
Stores are all garbage, I don't care what Crashed has to say (this time), doing AQ and BGs feels pointless (I had to leave my alliance since I stopped playing these game modes) when t6b t3a and t6cc are still this damn expensive. Do they not realize p2w players already have over 15 r3s and that gap is about to get wider after Cyberweekend and Banquet? How are f2p players supposed to keep up when rank up materials in the store are still this ridiculously overpriced even for Valiants?
Game is trash right now, worst state it's been in since I came back three years ago. I'm literally only doing SoS these days and nothing else, probably will fully quit after Banquet and come back when the Cyclops rework goes live lmao.
No wonder why I haven't seen you on forums for a while.
Also, why are you disappointed in Shathra? She seems like a good champion
Cause of damage, again. They keep designing these new champs around r3s and the result is mid damage almost always. Since I'm sick of waiting for them to release something decent this year I've just stopped playing the game for the most part, it's not fun for me anymore.
Yeah even this year's buffed champs have more damage (for the most part).
Also Count Nefaria? He's getting a lot of praise so far
Nefaria is also mid, overhyped as per usual by the white knights who think Kabam has been doing a great job this year.
Gotta disagree there. Only thing is that he should have had a way around unfazed without OGIM.
How many current meta defenders can he take in respectable time as a 6*? Lol
I feel like there’s a fundamental disconnect in what Kabam and I consider high value rewards, especially for BG
Never once in my post did I say I wanted the economy to speed up and that I wanted every store to have the highest end rewards. Why can’t they tune down the cost of t6cc since it’s so much more available now? Why can’t they lower the cost of relic shards and increase the cap? Are you telling me that having more 5* relics to purchase will break the game economy? Reduce some of the costs and increase the caps on certain items. 7* shards aren’t worth as much as they once were, another thing that could have a lowered cost
For the ranked rewards, 6k 7* shards for placing in Quantum 1 is a joke. You also only get like 1k 6* relic shards. Is that all the game economy can spare? If you’re telling me some resources that can be spared and should be increased for the level of effort can’t be changed, I’m calling bs
you say you don't want an accelerated economy but you're asking for cheaper t6cc, more 5*s relics, and a lowered cost of 7* shards "since they aren't worth as much". you're asking for acceleration lol
Please tell me how more access to 5* relics and slightly cheapened 7* shards would negatively effect the economy. I’d love to hear how having access to more r5’s and r2’s would kill the momentum they have now and make the lifespan of a 7* lower. I’m not asking for the big r3 materials to be cheapened or for them to bring r4 materials in. We’ve already seen how much 7* and T6CC shards have plummeted in value and their cost is way too high for the current state of the economy
Giving VALIANTS (endgame players) access to more r5 or r2 champs isn’t going to kill the game nor is it unhealthy. What are they going to do with relics? They’ve been paused. Is it going to kill them to include more relic shards? The current valiant store still thinks that T5CC is worth like 1600 trophy tokens which is a joke
asking for more r5s and r2s accelerates more players up the chain which means they need a new title faster which means quicker t7b and accelerating more players to valiant which also means more t4a.
more 5* relics will have the same effect. more 5*s relics means faster 5* saturation means accelerating 6*s and eventually putting out whatever's next.
everything is linked and simple sounding changes have secondary effects.
more r5/r2 is not moving anyone up the chain since the level required to move up to valiant is r3 7 stars, doesn't matter if you have 100 r5 or 1 as long as you're a valiant you are a valiant.
giving more r5 options is good because then people can rank up whoever they want when they want not necessarily saving for the best option (if you're not in a case to rank up champs as easily as they come) and more players can widen the option in their rosters.
and for relics as long as they are no new relics soon it's not a chase objective but a luxury to have, if you have all the relic doesn't mean anything different to not having half of them
with more r5s/r2s, player progression in those areas will be fast tracked and they will move up in titles and they will suddenly reach content that is ahead of their skillset, even though their roster is better, and they will complain and get frustrated and it will open up a giant can of worms.
and they will complain that deals aren't really targeting their roster progression that well because it's offering resources that can't really use (they'd rather gets 6* materials instead of 7* stuff)
and i'm sure DNA can explain this but kabam can't have tons of players hanging around in similar pools, they need separation so they need to come up with another title that starts with the whales first then it trickles down to everyone else, which means fast tracking the highest end resources for the new title......which means speeding up the entire game and then we're right back to square one where everyone cries about 8*s.
kabam isn't cheating us if every square inch of the game isn't spotless and updated to 2024 levels. they have a planned economy and are sticking to that, just because a few areas are old doesn't mean we're getting slighted and the game is "no longer fun".
also keep in mind that buffing stores usually (probably?) happen a bit after the big deals (otherwise the deals wouldn't look enticing), so they're waiting on the economy to change before doing anything like that.
with more r5s/r2s, player progression in those areas will be fast tracked and they will move up in titles and they will suddenly reach content that is ahead of their skillset, even though their roster is better, and they will complain and get frustrated and it will open up a giant can of worms.
firstly, having multiple r5/r2 isn't increasing progress, when players had a lot of 6*r2 they didn't mean they became throne breaker ergo for 6*r3 for paragon. also if you've been able to face all the story bosses up to act 9 I truely do not know which content is ahead of you other than roster check content like the new summer content.
and i'm sure DNA can explain this but kabam can't have tons of players hanging around in similar pools, they need separation so they need to come up with another title that starts with the whales first then it trickles down to everyone else, which means fast tracking the highest end resources for the new title......which means speeding up the entire game and then we're right back to square one where everyone cries about 8*s.
which is why they opened up the progress for lower level titles up to paragon with alternatives rather than the original requirements so an not to keep a lot of players stagnant for a long time
also keep in mind that buffing stores usually (probably?) happen a bit after the big deals (otherwise the deals wouldn't look enticing), so they're waiting on the economy to change before doing anything like that
we're in the 3rd saga, with each having its own sales + july 4th sale and how many stores have been updated more than once in this time period. it makes no sense to sell rare champions and upgrade materials and the stores for everyone else is the same.
kabam isn't cheating us if every square inch of the game isn't spotless and updated to 2024 levels. they have a planned economy and are sticking to that, just because a few areas are old doesn't mean we're getting slighted and the game is "no longer fun".
so the planned economy plan is sticking to the old things while selling new things?. the game being fun is not mainly a result of the economy of the game, but when the mechanicsm of the game are struggling greatly with ai problems, bugs, content not being fun, the next place to look at is the stores and there is no value for the effort put in them
There has been one boycott that was successful. The "shut down the game and fix-it" boycott. They did end up shutting down the game for 3 days. After that, they have made sure we can't organize such a thing ever again. By adding more moderators and killing any thread that suggested it immediately they have prevented such a thing. By having the shills attack the summoner who posted and then removing the thread they have kept the community under control.
with more r5s/r2s, player progression in those areas will be fast tracked and they will move up in titles and they will suddenly reach content that is ahead of their skillset, even though their roster is better, and they will complain and get frustrated and it will open up a giant can of worms.
firstly, having multiple r5/r2 isn't increasing progress, when players had a lot of 6*r2 they didn't mean they became throne breaker ergo for 6*r3 for paragon. also if you've been able to face all the story bosses up to act 9 I truely do not know which content is ahead of you other than roster check content like the new summer content.
and i'm sure DNA can explain this but kabam can't have tons of players hanging around in similar pools, they need separation so they need to come up with another title that starts with the whales first then it trickles down to everyone else, which means fast tracking the highest end resources for the new title......which means speeding up the entire game and then we're right back to square one where everyone cries about 8*s.
which is why they opened up the progress for lower level titles up to paragon with alternatives rather than the original requirements so an not to keep a lot of players stagnant for a long time
also keep in mind that buffing stores usually (probably?) happen a bit after the big deals (otherwise the deals wouldn't look enticing), so they're waiting on the economy to change before doing anything like that
we're in the 3rd saga, with each having its own sales + july 4th sale and how many stores have been updated more than once in this time period. it makes no sense to sell rare champions and upgrade materials and the stores for everyone else is the same.
kabam isn't cheating us if every square inch of the game isn't spotless and updated to 2024 levels. they have a planned economy and are sticking to that, just because a few areas are old doesn't mean we're getting slighted and the game is "no longer fun".
so the planned economy plan is sticking to the old things while selling new things?. the game being fun is not mainly a result of the economy of the game, but when the mechanicsm of the game are struggling greatly with ai problems, bugs, content not being fun, the next place to look at is the stores and there is no value for the effort put in them
the general economy is that the latest resource starts off in tiny quantities and spenders get more access to it. they also pay the most for it. the biggest whales spent low 6 figures for a rank 5 just 2 xmas' ago.
so yes, it's starts off rare and mostly accessible to the biggest spenders then eventually everyone else gets it. what is so offensive about this business model...spenders are literally paying the bill so that everyone else can play for free.
im confused why players dont understand it. something is rare and costs a lot and eventually they increase supply. you cant just flood the game with resources just because we ask them to...if they do flood it we reach the next rarity much faster.
updates to the stores will also naturally come after kabam makes good money on the big deal days on cyber monday and gifting first. so we can maybe expect something around dec or january.
There has been one boycott that was successful. The "shut down the game and fix-it" boycott. They did end up shutting down the game for 3 days. After that, they have made sure we can't organize such a thing ever again. By adding more moderators and killing any thread that suggested it immediately they have prevented such a thing. By having the shills attack the summoner who posted and then removing the thread they have kept the community under control.
Seeing the sunshine as usual, Rap.
More moderators?
Hasn't a huge complaint of most people on the forums recently been the lack of moderators?
Stop confusing "game economy" with "how can we milk the whales"...
There's definitely a tiered system, and the whales get the cream of the crop first. I have zero problem with that.
What I have a problem with is the rest of us still earning the same bunk "rewards" for playing harder content with beefier AI against whales with tankier champs. Take Arena for example: The whales have stronger champs (rightfully so since they paid to get them) but, in turn, it directly makes Arena more difficult across the board FOR EVERYBODY, but the rewards are the same.
Let's be real: Adding 10 or even 20 more units to the milestones won't break anything. Period.
War is another example. That goalpost has shifted so far so fast due to whales, yet the upper mid and lower upper tiers are ultimately paying the price for, yet again, largely the same bunk "rewards".
Again, let's be real: Beefing up the Loyalty Store won't break anything. Period.
Back to my original point: Milk the whales with all the new shinier hardest to aquire materials/champs. That's fine. That's business. But at the same time realize that everyone else gets stomped on and receives stale bread and a bland cup of soup for their efforts...and their tired of eating both.
The whales continue to be fed while the rest starve.
It won't break the "game's economy" if you add slightly better, more updated rewards for the lower and middle tier players. You'll still be able to milk the whales out of 6 digits, but at the same time everyone else wll get to broaden their roster a little faster.
Admit it: The whales and top tier players have launched into a different galaxy at this point, and the rest of us are still stuck here on Earth. We're not asking to catch up to them, but it would be nice to at least get to Mars...
Before I provide an update, I just want to say that players tend to look at the game economy different than we do. We look at it holistically - are players who are engaged in the game progressing? The answer right now is definitely yes. Think about your own accounts compared to a year ago. If you play the game regularly I guaranteed you have made substantial progress, regardless of how much you are spending.
A larger portion of rewards have been focused on events this year. We do this because we see a clear signal that it drives more player engagement than focusing those rewards into our regular modes. That doesn't mean they will never be updated, but it does mean more of the baseline reward budget is going to come from special events and things like the Daily Super Event.
With that said, here are some specific updates:
Loyalty Store - I have said elsewhere that it will not be updated. Introduction materials into the Loyalty store did not increase engagement in AW. The purpose of Loyalty moving forward will be to purchase AW consumables and maybe access the Loyalty 7-Star crystal (I say maybe because right now I am thinking about AW rewards structure changes and I think we might deprecate that system as well). Eventually we will probably remove the rank up materials etc. in the store.
Glory Store - This is the next store up for an update, should not be too long.
Battlegrounds - Battlegrounds as a whole remains one of the most rewarding modes in the game. We will continue to stagger reward updates to the different channels. I will say that a good portion of the GC rewards budget is in Trophy Tokens, so I don't agree with this take that it's been a year since GC rewards were updated. Updates to the BG store are also updates to GC rewards.
EQ and SQ - Rewards are fine for the level difficulty. We have some large changes planned for these modes we are working on that will help us scale both difficulty and rewards in the future.
Arenas - I said in a different thread, you don't want us to update Arenas. It would almost certainly result in lower Unit yields per time spent than the current tuning.
Solo Shards - I see this one a lot, solo shards are a deprecated currency for end game players. The crystals will not be updated. Why are there solo shards in the Daily Super Event then? Because when we took them out the CCP asked us to put them back in. But I'll just state it plainly, they are not an end-game currency and never will be.
I think that's what I can provide updates on right now, but for those calling for dramatic updates across the game, ask yourselves: do you really want the game's economy to be moving faster than it currently is? Do you want the 7-star lifecycle to be cut shorter, for us to introduce new ranks sooner? Because that would be the result of us updating every mode in the game to include end game rewards.
I very much appreciate the Crashed response—it’s good to have a definitive statement on something like this even if it isn’t what many want to hear. I may not love it, but it’s something concrete upon which I can premise future roster & resource management decisions.
The only quibble I have is the lack of comment on the Sigil. It’s become an inventory management tool for me more than anything else, but I think most would welcome even a slight uptick in items more suitable to Valiants new and old.
If they took the rest of the year off on champ releases and fixed the damned game, it would likely make them much more in the long run.
For the 1000000000th time. That's not how game dev works
Do you work for Kabam? Is that you trying to clown on me Mr. Diggety?
If they did what you are suggesting, the developers would not be working for Kabam either.
By fix the game I meant actual game bugs. The stores being trash isn’t too big of a deal for me. I understand why they are mega-low priority.
I just don’t try to gaslight other posters with attempts to logically handwave the issue. They need to make revenue and that’s fine.
New champ releases are the engine that powers this game. The entire game monetization foundation is built upon it. Not only that, new champ releases are one of the few ways in which this ten year old game can compete with the upstarts. If they were to stop releasing new champs, that would be blood in the water. The game would smell like it was going into maintenance mode. And once you give people that impression, it can be virtually impossible to reverse it.
I'm not saying bugs don't hurt, but for bugs to hurt the game, someone actually has to play the game to experience them. The biggest problem a ten year old game faces is getting people to pick it up in the first place. If the new shinys stop coming out, we stop getting new players. And all the old players come from the new players. All the spenders come from the free to play revolving door.
The Kabam devs knows this, and would never risk tampering with this process. Kabam management also knows this, and would never let the devs risk this. Netmarble also knows this, and would probably never allow Kabam itself to tamper with this process.
I agree that new champs power the engine… but more specifically its new attackers that are enjoyable to use and easy to understand. Not this middling year of complexity and cancerous defenders.
In the short term, sure. But in the long term, if those new enjoyable attackers don’t have something noteworthy to flex on, eventually those new enjoyable attackers will become stale and boring, because once the current enjoyable attackers have nothing that challenges them the new ones won’t have anything to do.
Nobody wants to face particularly tough defenders, nobody wants to see their current skill set made moot and nobody wants to be missing the best options. But that’s what this game is: it is an open ended lifecycle game as a service that has to keep creating the challenges that the next set of champions and rank ups are going to deal with.
Do they always get the balance right? Of course not. Balancing the strength of defenders and attackers is not just a numbers game, it is a people game. What makes defenders hard and attackers great is what the player base does with them. That’s inherently unpredictable. There’s no way to predict how fast and how well a million people will learn to fight a new champ. We enjoy the fat and happy days of powerful attackers and push over defenders, but that is unsustainable. We need the dark days of nightmare defenders and hair pulling content to make us appreciate the next set of new shiny attackers.
Once upon a time, the devs were not making difficult defenders to drive the sales of new champs. They just upped the prestige of them to force people to chase champs they didn’t even ever use. Less stressful, sure, but also more pointless. For all the revives I have to farm, I still prefer this way better.
I didn’t say tough, and that’s because it is not that they are tough. It’s that they are malignant cancers. There isn’t a fun mini game, there isn’t a skill that I could learn to defeat the them. There are just mechanics that essentially force me to block and watch their insanely long and punishing special animations. Unless I have a counter, that’s it.
We have plenty of tough defenders that are designed like a puzzle to solve, that reward players for executing the right actions and I agree we need those to keep the game intriguing. But we don’t need designs like Serpent and Bullseye. Hard counters may come… but I don’t think that it will be exciting when they do. It’ll be too little too late.
The reason why exciting attackers matter, is that’s when we as players are getting to actually play with the new shiny and glow over how much fun it is, it really is that simple.
Comments
As usual you focus on only the things that you want. In my initial response I acknowledged crashed’s response and expressed thanks for it. I had one additional point for which I requested clarification and was jumped on my multiple non Kabam employees. Nothing new to see here so I will accept my fate and move on.
I speak the way I do about the game because I pay attention to what the devs and designers say, I work in the industry and know how it works, and have played the game for a long time and know how it works.
It was stated multiple times what would happen if they shifted their gaze toward anything arena related and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to take a step back and look at how ridiculously generous kabam is with giving out their premium currency for free.
1. asking for "more" means accelerating the economy and getting to 8 stars faster...is that what we want?
2. asking for "more everywhere" makes no sense because they already have new and better stores and things that will be updated regularly that will be easier for kabam to make and better for us. why buff sunday arenas, solo shards, and summoner advancement if they can just roll many things into a simple daily event and buff the trader's outpost and BG store?
3. updating arena rewards and buffing the sunday arenas means kabam adjusting the milestone requirements and diverting already existing units to the sunday ones. this means we do more work for the same rewards. who the heck wants this?
not to sound rude but let's hope kabam doesn't listen to most of the stuff posted.
Giving VALIANTS (endgame players) access to more r5 or r2 champs isn’t going to kill the game nor is it unhealthy. What are they going to do with relics? They’ve been paused. Is it going to kill them to include more relic shards? The current valiant store still thinks that T5CC is worth like 1600 trophy tokens which is a joke
On the theory of “well, if you’re going to sell more stuff you have to give us more units so we can continue to get all the stuff” if Crashed wants to address that one directly I would love to hear his own version of “say what?” Because otherwise I am never going to hear his version of that one, because that’s not a question I would be comfortable asking a game developer with a straight face.
Not to mention the people acting like some slightly lowered costs for stuff like 5* relic shards are going to break the game economy or speed up the lifecycle of the game or something
I think I’ll be taking a step back too. Still playing here and there but I’m tired of the champ releases, the AI, and the lack of updates. Still excited for banquet and the other big stuff but I think I need a little break now too lol. Very clear that they’ve made up their mind
I was responding to points 6 and 7 in your post that I quoted. Not your initial post. You can't comment multiple times and pretend like people can only respond to the first thing you said.
You said long time players should be listened to as in if they aren't and also what you've said will fall on deaf ears. Neither which are true.
Time and time again, mods have told us they take our feedback and give it to the game teams. Many ideas from the community have been brought to the game. But just because you believe something should happen and it doesn't, doesn't mean it wasn't heard. It just means it doesn't fit with what they're trying to do.
There's reasons why none of us in the community are economy designers for a mobile game. Most of the time the ideas are for what benefits "me" and not the longevity of the game.
Most of the community aren't big picture people. They aren't stepping back and connecting the dots like how Kabam does it.
Again, just so you're not confused, I'm not replying to your original comment. I am replying to this comment in reference to your comment with the list. Got it?
Say they have 30k 7* shards they are able to give for that update, those BG rewards are factored into that budget.
Nobody wants to face particularly tough defenders, nobody wants to see their current skill set made moot and nobody wants to be missing the best options. But that’s what this game is: it is an open ended lifecycle game as a service that has to keep creating the challenges that the next set of champions and rank ups are going to deal with.
Do they always get the balance right? Of course not. Balancing the strength of defenders and attackers is not just a numbers game, it is a people game. What makes defenders hard and attackers great is what the player base does with them. That’s inherently unpredictable. There’s no way to predict how fast and how well a million people will learn to fight a new champ. We enjoy the fat and happy days of powerful attackers and push over defenders, but that is unsustainable. We need the dark days of nightmare defenders and hair pulling content to make us appreciate the next set of new shiny attackers.
Once upon a time, the devs were not making difficult defenders to drive the sales of new champs. They just upped the prestige of them to force people to chase champs they didn’t even ever use. Less stressful, sure, but also more pointless. For all the revives I have to farm, I still prefer this way better.
People always think this helps their case: “all I want is just this little tiny thing that can’t possibly be problematic.” However, by definition if the change you want is so small it can’t possibly be problematic, the situation can’t possibly be problematic now.
The only suggestions that are worth pursuing are the ones that change things meaningfully. In twenty years, I don’t think I’ve ever seriously told a dev that one of my suggestions was “only a slight change” Because if they actually believe me, they’ll forget about it ten seconds later.
If you think things are *very* wrong, say they are very wrong. Suggest the *significant* change that is *necessary* to fix it. You probably won’t get it, because daring changes rarely happen. But trying to slip it past the devs as a tiny insignificant change has exactly zero chance of happening.
Take that from someone that has gotten the devs to listen to many daring suggestions. And laugh many of them out the door, but still.
more 5* relics will have the same effect. more 5*s relics means faster 5* saturation means accelerating 6*s and eventually putting out whatever's next.
everything is linked and simple sounding changes have secondary effects.
last year we had the cap's commissary to get more people involved in alliance quests, but as far as I can remember other than the boost during that month the events haven't gotten any rewards bump or the game mode changed and improved.
the 7* champs not being moved into basic or titan so we can dupe them really doesn't make sense unless the champions that can be made available are too good for 7 stars.
I do feel this is very disingenuous if we look at account progress over a year, looking at mine, I wouldn't associate the progress to the stores but to story content, special events and the occasional monthly special event.
There are good rewards in bg, aq and aw stores but the rate of getting them isn't good enough to call them valuable especially over a long time, why a year? why not a month or 3 months?.
and I will not farm arena even if all the units were there due to how time consuming the game mode is and the refusal to make it much better or have it open to be simulated.
Also speaking of AI, peak game design right there eh!
giving more r5 options is good because then people can rank up whoever they want when they want not necessarily saving for the best option (if you're not in a case to rank up champs as easily as they come) and more players can widen the option in their rosters.
and for relics as long as they are no new relics soon it's not a chase objective but a luxury to have, if you have all the relic doesn't mean anything different to not having half of them
and they will complain that deals aren't really targeting their roster progression that well because it's offering resources that can't really use (they'd rather gets 6* materials instead of 7* stuff)
and i'm sure DNA can explain this but kabam can't have tons of players hanging around in similar pools, they need separation so they need to come up with another title that starts with the whales first then it trickles down to everyone else, which means fast tracking the highest end resources for the new title......which means speeding up the entire game and then we're right back to square one where everyone cries about 8*s.
kabam isn't cheating us if every square inch of the game isn't spotless and updated to 2024 levels. they have a planned economy and are sticking to that, just because a few areas are old doesn't mean we're getting slighted and the game is "no longer fun".
also keep in mind that buffing stores usually (probably?) happen a bit after the big deals (otherwise the deals wouldn't look enticing), so they're waiting on the economy to change before doing anything like that.
firstly, having multiple r5/r2 isn't increasing progress, when players had a lot of 6*r2 they didn't mean they became throne breaker ergo for 6*r3 for paragon.
also if you've been able to face all the story bosses up to act 9 I truely do not know which content is ahead of you other than roster check content like the new summer content.
which is why they opened up the progress for lower level titles up to paragon with alternatives rather than the original requirements so an not to keep a lot of players stagnant for a long time
we're in the 3rd saga, with each having its own sales + july 4th sale and how many stores have been updated more than once in this time period. it makes no sense to sell rare champions and upgrade materials and the stores for everyone else is the same.
so the planned economy plan is sticking to the old things while selling new things?. the game being fun is not mainly a result of the economy of the game, but when the mechanicsm of the game are struggling greatly with ai problems, bugs, content not being fun, the next place to look at is the stores and there is no value for the effort put in them
After that, they have made sure we can't organize such a thing ever again. By adding more moderators and killing any thread that suggested it immediately they have prevented such a thing.
By having the shills attack the summoner who posted and then removing the thread they have kept the community under control.
so yes, it's starts off rare and mostly accessible to the biggest spenders then eventually everyone else gets it. what is so offensive about this business model...spenders are literally paying the bill so that everyone else can play for free.
im confused why players dont understand it. something is rare and costs a lot and eventually they increase supply. you cant just flood the game with resources just because we ask them to...if they do flood it we reach the next rarity much faster.
updates to the stores will also naturally come after kabam makes good money on the big deal days on cyber monday and gifting first. so we can maybe expect something around dec or january.
they buffed war last december
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/353792/alliance-war-season-46-update#latest
and again a few months later in feb
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/361238/alliance-war-season-48-tactics-new-elite-map-rewards-and-7-star-loyalty-crystal-acquisition#latest
and a battlegrounds store update the same month
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/361217/battlegrounds-season-16-meta-and-valiant-store-introduction#latest
kabam would be crazy to buff a store before making a lot of money from them first. 10 years into the game and people still complain lol.
More moderators?
Hasn't a huge complaint of most people on the forums recently been the lack of moderators?
There's definitely a tiered system, and the whales get the cream of the crop first. I have zero problem with that.
What I have a problem with is the rest of us still earning the same bunk "rewards" for playing harder content with beefier AI against whales with tankier champs. Take Arena for example: The whales have stronger champs (rightfully so since they paid to get them) but, in turn, it directly makes Arena more difficult across the board FOR EVERYBODY, but the rewards are the same.
Let's be real: Adding 10 or even 20 more units to the milestones won't break anything. Period.
War is another example. That goalpost has shifted so far so fast due to whales, yet the upper mid and lower upper tiers are ultimately paying the price for, yet again, largely the same bunk "rewards".
Again, let's be real: Beefing up the Loyalty Store won't break anything. Period.
Back to my original point: Milk the whales with all the new shinier hardest to aquire materials/champs. That's fine. That's business. But at the same time realize that everyone else gets stomped on and receives stale bread and a bland cup of soup for their efforts...and their tired of eating both.
The whales continue to be fed while the rest starve.
It won't break the "game's economy" if you add slightly better, more updated rewards for the lower and middle tier players. You'll still be able to milk the whales out of 6 digits, but at the same time everyone else wll get to broaden their roster a little faster.
Admit it: The whales and top tier players have launched into a different galaxy at this point, and the rest of us are still stuck here on Earth. We're not asking to catch up to them, but it would be nice to at least get to Mars...
The only quibble I have is the lack of comment on the Sigil. It’s become an inventory management tool for me more than anything else, but I think most would welcome even a slight uptick in items more suitable to Valiants new and old.
Dr. Zola
We have plenty of tough defenders that are designed like a puzzle to solve, that reward players for executing the right actions and I agree we need those to keep the game intriguing. But we don’t need designs like Serpent and Bullseye. Hard counters may come… but I don’t think that it will be exciting when they do. It’ll be too little too late.
The reason why exciting attackers matter, is that’s when we as players are getting to actually play with the new shiny and glow over how much fun it is, it really is that simple.