It’s like you want us to play less

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  • akanakanakanakan Member Posts: 1
    Totally agree
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Member Posts: 3,116 ★★★★★
    Thank you for the detailed reply, Crashed.

    Here’s the unfortunate reality for many players like me (mid-valiant…did a necro path and 8.4 in April). The time required for a lot of these modes is literally meaningless for the top of my roster.

    AQ - can’t buy any meaningful t6cc, can’t buy any t3a at all.

    War - we’re pretty casual in plat 5 war. Minimal help for a 6-week season. (20% for 6 weeks)

    BG season - a small alliance reward even in the top 10%. (15% for 5 weeks)

    If you combine these three modes, how long does it take you with 5-week BG seasons and 6-week war seasons (offseason included) to accrue 3 t4a? The answer: 11 months. 11 months of war, AQ and BGs gets me enough t4a for one extra r3. I’m about to have 7 7r3 champs. The process of building a 30-champ BG deck is already ridiculous when I have 45 champs at 7r3, 7r2, or 6r5 ascended. These modes collectively require a ton of time but offer almost nothing besides the ability to rank yet another jerk defender or a novelty champ for funsies (shout out to Wolverine)
  • ege999menege999men Member Posts: 374 ★★

    1199345 said:

    1199345 said:

    1199345 said:

    notice how you always hear about outcome inequality but you never hear about effort inequality..hmm.

    maybe the complainers should try spending $50k a year on the game and see what it's like..

    Good luck getting anybody to feel bad for someone who KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY chooses to spend $50k a year on one of the single worse depreciating assets this side of a scratch-off lottery ticket...

    Not gonna happen...

    Also, to your point, spending $50k a year on a game takes as much effort as spending $1...

    It's literally a tap of a button...
    nice. you admitted that the newest resources suffer from massive deprecation.

    next you might retract your earlier statement that it's unjust that whales are light years ahead.

    "Admit it: The whales and top tier players have launched into a different galaxy at this point, and the rest of us are still stuck here on Earth. We're not asking to catch up to them, but it would be nice to at least get to Mars..."
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2638430/#Comment_2638430
    You REALLY have an issue with comprehension...
    wouldn't it be nice if everyone spent so that kabam wouldn't monetize the way they do and everybody could "get to mars"?
    The problem is having to face an AI that's rapidly increasing in difficulty, while fighting champs who are rapidly increasing in difficulty, and earning relatively the same stagnant rewards that we've been getting for years now; The overall difficulty has rapidly and substantially increased across all game modes, yet the rewards have largely remained the same...
    AI difficulty - AI hasn't affected me personally, but yes they don't use specials and wait out power stings, etc. but it's something we all have to deal with.

    difficult defenders - yes....bullseye, serpent, and enchantress. and onslaught, photon, and maestro before it but the latter 3 aren't broken anymore and the former 3 will have the same fate. community overcomes.

    "same stagnant rewards for year" = not true. noticeable buff to glory when it happened, solid buff to BGs, big buff to AW.

    "increase difficulty, rewards have largely remained the same" = incorrect, see above. but also rewards will probably get buffed soonish after cyber monday and gifting. also asking for better stuff will needlessly accelerate the game. why do we want 8*s faster?

    we complain no matter what. if they slow down on rewards we complain and if they speed up we will eventually cry about 8 stars.

    i'm not shilling for them but let's let kabam handle it. they've been responsible with the economy, nothing too out there so far although personally i wish they'd go slower because at this rate we're getting the next rarity faster than last time...
    Couldn't agree more on the AI situation, I feel like I'm constantly being gaslit. My AI works fine I don't understand how people would have different versions of it that just sounds unreasonable
  • IlociaMIlociaM Member Posts: 145
    I went from playing only this game 24/7 to play like 5hs a week, there is nothing to do in game and grinding arena or incursions it's pointless based on the rewards
  • HarryatomixHarryatomix Member Posts: 350 ★★★

    Steam97 said:

    1199345 said:

    1199345 said:

    1199345 said:

    notice how you always hear about outcome inequality but you never hear about effort inequality..hmm.

    maybe the complainers should try spending $50k a year on the game and see what it's like..

    Good luck getting anybody to feel bad for someone who KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY chooses to spend $50k a year on one of the single worse depreciating assets this side of a scratch-off lottery ticket...

    Not gonna happen...

    Also, to your point, spending $50k a year on a game takes as much effort as spending $1...

    It's literally a tap of a button...
    nice. you admitted that the newest resources suffer from massive deprecation.

    next you might retract your earlier statement that it's unjust that whales are light years ahead.

    "Admit it: The whales and top tier players have launched into a different galaxy at this point, and the rest of us are still stuck here on Earth. We're not asking to catch up to them, but it would be nice to at least get to Mars..."
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2638430/#Comment_2638430
    You REALLY have an issue with comprehension...
    wouldn't it be nice if everyone spent so that kabam wouldn't monetize the way they do and everybody could "get to mars"?
    The problem is having to face an AI that's rapidly increasing in difficulty, while fighting champs who are rapidly increasing in difficulty, and earning relatively the same stagnant rewards that we've been getting for years now; The overall difficulty has rapidly and substantially increased across all game modes, yet the rewards have largely remained the same...
    AI difficulty - AI hasn't affected me personally, but yes they don't use specials and wait out power stings, etc. but it's something we all have to deal with.

    difficult defenders - yes....bullseye, serpent, and enchantress. and onslaught, photon, and maestro before it but the latter 3 aren't broken anymore and the former 3 will have the same fate. community overcomes.

    "same stagnant rewards for year" = not true. noticeable buff to glory when it happened, solid buff to BGs, big buff to AW.

    "increase difficulty, rewards have largely remained the same" = incorrect, see above. but also rewards will probably get buffed soonish after cyber monday and gifting. also asking for better stuff will needlessly accelerate the game. why do we want 8*s faster?

    we complain no matter what. if they slow down on rewards we complain and if they speed up we will eventually cry about 8 stars.

    i'm not shilling for them but let's let kabam handle it. they've been responsible with the economy, nothing too out there so far although personally i wish they'd go slower because at this rate we're getting the next rarity faster than last time...
    Can you tell me what buff to glory you're mentioning? Nothing changed in AQ except raids in more than a year, last bg update was more than 6 months ago and they have other parts of the game requiring more attention, but there are still some aspects not perfect there, like the circuit rewards honestly have so much useless relic stuff that should be updated, relics are dead but at least giving some materials to r3 the 6 star relics can still excite some players. War has good rewards only for plat 1+ alliances.
    Then I have no idea why u keep mentioning 8 stars, there are still 3 ranks for 7 stars before they're maxed out and we still have a long way ahead before we can even think about those, and buffing some outdated game modes means nothing on 8 stars but yeah thet can't change too much but still ignoring some stuff for so long eventually makes something die. You're definitely trying to defend kabam but you know they're not perfect like you think they are, and made many mistakes over the years, like last year banquet event. Like the current state of the monthly events is really sad, we all used to be excited to play the new monthly content while right now is just not fun and not rewarding and many stopped playing it and I hope they don't let it die like it looks like they're doing. I know crashed said they're working on an update but in this game it means little to nothing until we see something.
    the stores:

    -the last buff to the glory store was in january, so it's a little stale but what players conveniently keep forgetting is that in november they buffed the heck out of the daily crystal which gives a ton a good stuff and players used to get two of them a day! why do players pretend this never happened?

    -battlegrounds store got updated in late feb/early march. let's think of an update plan...they're definitely weren't going to update it before july 4 because that would be too soon and they won't update it before cyber monday either because that would only devalue their offers. so why is everyone shocked and outraged? why would kabam devalue one of the biggest sale days of the year for no reason? a buff will happen just not now.

    -war got buffed in december and another big boost just recently.

    -they also introduced the trader's outpost.


    i keep mentioning 8 stars because players keep asking for higher quantities of stuff and that only means devaluation and when you get devaluation they're forced to bring out the next rank faster which speeds along the entire rarity. give us more means inching towards 8s even faster and guess what, players will cry and moan about that too.

    kabam isn't perfect but they clearly know how to run the game cause we're all still here, but these posts are just the same old general stuff we've been hearing for a decade.

    "i'm tired of _____"
    "the state of the game"
    "i feel this and that"

    all of this will be FORGOTTEN in a few months. they'll have cyber monday, gifting, and i'm guessing a giant 10 year anniversary event where everyone gets high on crystals and free goodies and appreciation posts will be all over the forum, they'll buff a store or two, and then a certain period later we'll return back to our semi-annual "State of The Game" programming. it's so boring.
    Not gonna comment on these, but EQ needs a difficulty and rewards buff.
  • SearmenisSearmenis Member Posts: 1,634 ★★★★★
    Well, when Kabam upgraded the Loyalty store in it s current state last time, they assured us that in due time, it will contain 7* sig stones. And now they look to make players completely lose their interest in War. Nice meta.
  • JK_47JK_47 Member Posts: 284 ★★
    If these store updates affect game economy and 7* lifecycle atleast buff sigil benefits and arenas.

    Reason being there are only two things that keep a game successful.

    Purchases and time spent

    Buffing sigil benefits makes spenders to stick and tempt non spenders to spend.

    Buffing arenas makes f2p spend more time in game and they will have enough units to reinforce roster and stay meta competitors for spenders in modes such battlegrounds.
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  • kenadroidkenadroid Member Posts: 542 ★★★
    JK_47 said:

    If these store updates affect game economy and 7* lifecycle atleast buff sigil benefits and arenas.

    Reason being there are only two things that keep a game successful.

    Purchases and time spent

    Buffing sigil benefits makes spenders to stick and tempt non spenders to spend.

    Buffing arenas makes f2p spend more time in game and they will have enough units to reinforce roster and stay meta competitors for spenders in modes such battlegrounds.

    Personally, I do want less milestones for the same units in summoner trials (4* arenas)
  • kenadroidkenadroid Member Posts: 542 ★★★
    Emilia90 said:

    I’m really not sure why it takes them so long to update certain rewards. Store updates should just happen regularly every 6-8 months. Currently they update stores like once every 2 years, and for the first 3-4 months the stores feel valuable, but then it gets outdated so quickly that I can stop caring about the store after those first few months.

    Gc placement also rewards should’ve been buffed 6 months ago, there’s no point in grinding past uru 3 from a time/rewards perspective. Considering bgs is mcoc’s biggest gamemode you’d think they’d want to encourage participation and competition as much as possible, and yet the rewards directly behind the competitive aspect of the gamemode are the most outdated in the entire gamemode. It’s such an easy, highly beneficial fix that I don’t get why they’re not on top of keeping these rewards relevant.

    Sq I don’t mind. I appreciate that it’s simple and not too grindy, and the rewards match the effort level. My only complaint has been them adding niche nodes like do you bleed and thunderstruck in a game mode they know a lot of people will want to just cruise through with their random team. I don’t want to plan ahead for an sq path when I already have to do that in other areas of the game. EQ I personally enjoy but still having to 100% tb eq for the gauntlet feels excessive at this point in time. I think they should reduce the requirement to just completion, at least for valiants maybe.

    If the explanation for mediocre champ releases is that they’re trying to reverse or slow down power creep, then why the hell did they make someone like juggs a 7* lol. They also haven’t shyed away from making powerful defenders that egregiously power creep the old defenders, so I don’t think they’re doing this sheerly for the sake of managing power creep. My best guess is they want to alter the balance of offense to defense by making defense more powerful and more impactful from a meta defining perspective. (which I disagree with fundamentally but that’s a separate topic) There have been a few good offensive standouts in the 2024 release pool and it’s getting better with count and Shathra, but meta relevant attackers used to be the rule instead of the exception.

    I share your frustrations with certain areas of the game and even though I do enjoy the game as a whole, I still feel it could be much better.

    I’ve seen the devs talk about how much they regret releasing champs like Juggs as 7* in the discord. I think they messed up and my theory was that they were trying to backtrack (and we also get a lot of anti-Juggs metas probably for that reason). But yeah, 100%.


    I want to like the game more so bad, but they fumble the easiest things. I was even willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when it came to the AI but it’s been like 3 years now. They haven’t fixed a single thing, just promises that never come to fruition or outright denial of the issues. I spent 3 minutes per SoS fight baiting specials like cmon. It’s so absurd that’s even the good content like that is ruined by the AI
    I mean 10 years on, we still get random disconnects in fights (quest and AW in particular)

    Leaving BGs disconnect alone since that's another whole can of worms.
  • GamerGamer Member Posts: 10,899 ★★★★★
    BeroMan said:

    It's unbelievable that they are saying that because of BG store got updated that means BG GC rewards also got updated and it's fair to get T2 Alloy as a C1 rewards. Not sure why they are trying to kill game mode with their stinginess. If we compare C1 rewards to daily/weekly/monthly deals and convert it in monetary value max it's value would be 60$. So nobody cares about the rewards at the top, people only play because of competition. It's sad to see a company being this much tone-deaf really.

    I understand you like the game mode very much it definitely need something. I. Not sure it aloy it need. Considering there ain’t given new relics for over year
  • Potatoslice500Potatoslice500 Member Posts: 289 ★★

    Before I provide an update, I just want to say that players tend to look at the game economy different than we do. We look at it holistically - are players who are engaged in the game progressing? The answer right now is definitely yes. Think about your own accounts compared to a year ago. If you play the game regularly I guaranteed you have made substantial progress, regardless of how much you are spending.

    A larger portion of rewards have been focused on events this year. We do this because we see a clear signal that it drives more player engagement than focusing those rewards into our regular modes. That doesn't mean they will never be updated, but it does mean more of the baseline reward budget is going to come from special events and things like the Daily Super Event.

    With that said, here are some specific updates:

    Loyalty Store - I have said elsewhere that it will not be updated. Introduction materials into the Loyalty store did not increase engagement in AW. The purpose of Loyalty moving forward will be to purchase AW consumables and maybe access the Loyalty 7-Star crystal (I say maybe because right now I am thinking about AW rewards structure changes and I think we might deprecate that system as well). Eventually we will probably remove the rank up materials etc. in the store.

    Glory Store - This is the next store up for an update, should not be too long.

    Battlegrounds - Battlegrounds as a whole remains one of the most rewarding modes in the game. We will continue to stagger reward updates to the different channels. I will say that a good portion of the GC rewards budget is in Trophy Tokens, so I don't agree with this take that it's been a year since GC rewards were updated. Updates to the BG store are also updates to GC rewards.

    EQ and SQ - Rewards are fine for the level difficulty. We have some large changes planned for these modes we are working on that will help us scale both difficulty and rewards in the future.

    Arenas - I said in a different thread, you don't want us to update Arenas. It would almost certainly result in lower Unit yields per time spent than the current tuning.

    Solo Shards - I see this one a lot, solo shards are a deprecated currency for end game players. The crystals will not be updated. Why are there solo shards in the Daily Super Event then? Because when we took them out the CCP asked us to put them back in. But I'll just state it plainly, they are not an end-game currency and never will be.


    I think that's what I can provide updates on right now, but for those calling for dramatic updates across the game, ask yourselves: do you really want the game's economy to be moving faster than it currently is? Do you want the 7-star lifecycle to be cut shorter, for us to introduce new ranks sooner? Because that would be the result of us updating every mode in the game to include end game rewards.

    Thanks for the info. Any chance of update on the Black ISO market?
  • JLordVileJJLordVileJ Member Posts: 4,331 ★★★★★
    Damn I came too late to read through pages of threads again lmao. Summary anyone?
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,690 Guardian
    BeroMan said:

    Not sure why they are trying to kill game mode with their stinginess.

    Historically speaking, Kabam seems extraordinarily bad at killing any part of the game, including Battlegrounds. The current rewards seem to be incentivizing an awful lot of Battlegrounds play.

    Now, you might be thinking that you aren’t playing because of the rewards, you’re playing in spite of them. But that doesn’t prove the rewards should be higher, it just proves you don’t need incentivizing at all, and the game designers can spend those valuable rewards elsewhere.

    Crashed alludes to the fact that economy designers think about rewards differently than players. I think the biggest single difference is players think of rewards as being rewards *for* doing content, while designers think of rewards as incentives *to do* content. Players think the more effort they put in the more rewards they should get while economy designers think the less effort players collectively put in the more incentives that might require.

    This is of course a pretty big simplification, but this is not just how every economy designer thinks about rewards (in a game like this). It is how they *must* think about rewards if they expect to have a job next year. Simply pouring rewards into things players are already doing is a positive feedback loop. Nothing survives positive feedback loops for long.
  • EBG78EBG78 Member Posts: 132 ★★
    The main update that I'd like to see to the loyalty store is a new group of 7*'s in the loyalty crystal.
  • JLordVileJJLordVileJ Member Posts: 4,331 ★★★★★
    edited September 30
    EBG78 said:

    The main update that I'd like to see to the loyalty store is a new group of 7*'s in the loyalty crystal.

    Not happening for at least another year, same with incursions. Last years gifted guardians are joining basic near Xmas tho
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  • TikkaMasalaTikkaMasala Member Posts: 486 ★★★

    I am playing less, therefore spending a lot less...
    Just saying

    Like spending $0…
  • BeastDadBeastDad Member Posts: 1,900 ★★★★★
    Very thankful for his response, I have been playing and spending less the last several months.

    Between the game economy and constant AI issues, that trend will continue for me.
  • EakomoEakomo Member Posts: 135
    DNA3000 said:

    BeroMan said:

    Not sure why they are trying to kill game mode with their stinginess.

    Historically speaking, Kabam seems extraordinarily bad at killing any part of the game, including Battlegrounds. The current rewards seem to be incentivizing an awful lot of Battlegrounds play.

    Now, you might be thinking that you aren’t playing because of the rewards, you’re playing in spite of them. But that doesn’t prove the rewards should be higher, it just proves you don’t need incentivizing at all, and the game designers can spend those valuable rewards elsewhere.

    Crashed alludes to the fact that economy designers think about rewards differently than players. I think the biggest single difference is players think of rewards as being rewards *for* doing content, while designers think of rewards as incentives *to do* content. Players think the more effort they put in the more rewards they should get while economy designers think the less effort players collectively put in the more incentives that might require.

    This is of course a pretty big simplification, but this is not just how every economy designer thinks about rewards (in a game like this). It is how they *must* think about rewards if they expect to have a job next year. Simply pouring rewards into things players are already doing is a positive feedback loop. Nothing survives positive feedback loops for long.

    the problem with players still playing despite the state of the rewards and the store is more of a show of how competitive the mode is over rewards first and then how much enjoyment it provides.

    I don't have the concept of having a pooled reward to share out in different game modes and stores but the problem is that has never really worked and the 'pooled reward' we are still getting is from at least last year with how little rewards have generally been updated.
    on the flip side having events/ story progression with massive milestone is a boosts to players that isnt locked behind the sweatiest alliance war, bgs and prestige for aq (if that's still a thing).

    Looking at how kabam has historically distributed rewards and buffs to rewards/store, it's always been rotating across gamemodes, up untill this year with a focus on splitting where to get them has failed horribly with it's positive feedback loop we've been using since the game first started. it's lasted 10 years probably it's time to change it or watch it burn.

    In summary the economy we see in the game is a disappointing in the value, balance of the stores and currencies,
  • CROSSHAIRSCROSSHAIRS Member Posts: 412
    So many paragraphs enough to make a book 💀
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