Is it fair you take damage after the bgs timer runs out during a sp3?

dr2ws · October 14

I’m referring to specifically the sp3, now I get it, if we pause the game purposefully on the sp1 and sp2 we take zero damage if we know we’re gonna eat it, but for people who are literally 2 seconds at the end and eats a sp3, is it fair you take all the damage when the timer ends? Personally not really, let me know your thoughts.

tnair2015 · October 14

Dont Pause

dr2ws · October 14

Misunderstood, I’m talking about 2 seconds before timeout, let’s say Hulkling releases his sp3, screams and then it says timeout, and you’ve lost 50% for example,

Furrymoosen · October 14

Pause before they throw it. You shouldn't be able to pause to avoid guaranteed damage, so the way they have it is fine.

Josh2507 · October 14

Here’s the problem I have, the defender can avoid damage this way. But you as the attacker cannot

Squidopus · October 14

Josh2507 said:
Here’s the problem I have, the defender can avoid damage this way. But you as the attacker cannot

I mean they definitely can’t. I’ve had several fights where I threw sp3 just as the timer ran out, and once the timer hit zero the animation immediately ended and the opponent suddenly took a bunch of damage, indicating that it skipped the animation but still dealt the damage it should’ve.

SirGamesBond · October 14

Josh2507 said:
Here’s the problem I have, the defender can avoid damage this way. But you as the attacker cannot

I have done it multiple times in various modes.
This goes both ways. It's not one sided.

Average_Desi · October 14

Josh2507 said:
Here’s the problem I have, the defender can avoid damage this way. But you as the attacker cannot

Just making up lies to get mad huh

DNA3000 · October 14

dr2ws said:
I’m referring to specifically the sp3, now I get it, if we pause the game purposefully on the sp1 and sp2 we take zero damage if we know we’re gonna eat it, but for people who are literally 2 seconds at the end and eats a sp3, is it fair you take all the damage when the timer ends? Personally not really, let me know your thoughts.

Special 1 and Special 2 attacks take place over time. Special 3 attacks don't actually take place over time: in combat terms they happen instantly. The animation takes place while combat itself is frozen in time. While SP3 animations are running, buffs and debuffs don't tick, damage over time effects don't deal damage, and nothing expires. The instant you or the defender initiates an SP3, everything that is going to happen happens instantly. The animation is just for the player's benefit.

You can pause during SP3 animations, and the fight timers can expire during SP3 animations, but the combat effects of the SP3 for the purposes of the fight have already happened.

Graves_3 · October 14

DNA3000 said:

dr2ws said:
I’m referring to specifically the sp3, now I get it, if we pause the game purposefully on the sp1 and sp2 we take zero damage if we know we’re gonna eat it, but for people who are literally 2 seconds at the end and eats a sp3, is it fair you take all the damage when the timer ends? Personally not really, let me know your thoughts.
Special 1 and Special 2 attacks take place over time. Special 3 attacks don't actually take place over time: in combat terms they happen instantly. The animation takes place while combat itself is frozen in time. While SP3 animations are running, buffs and debuffs don't tick, damage over time effects don't deal damage, and nothing expires. The instant you or the defender initiates an SP3, everything that is going to happen happens instantly. The animation is just for the player's benefit.

You can pause during SP3 animations, and the fight timers can expire during SP3 animations, but the combat effects of the SP3 for the purposes of the fight have already happened.

Why does sp3 run your clock in timed matchups in that case?

DNA3000 · October 15

Graves_3 said:

DNA3000 said:

dr2ws said:
I’m referring to specifically the sp3, now I get it, if we pause the game purposefully on the sp1 and sp2 we take zero damage if we know we’re gonna eat it, but for people who are literally 2 seconds at the end and eats a sp3, is it fair you take all the damage when the timer ends? Personally not really, let me know your thoughts.
Special 1 and Special 2 attacks take place over time. Special 3 attacks don't actually take place over time: in combat terms they happen instantly. The animation takes place while combat itself is frozen in time. While SP3 animations are running, buffs and debuffs don't tick, damage over time effects don't deal damage, and nothing expires. The instant you or the defender initiates an SP3, everything that is going to happen happens instantly. The animation is just for the player's benefit.

You can pause during SP3 animations, and the fight timers can expire during SP3 animations, but the combat effects of the SP3 for the purposes of the fight have already happened.
Why does sp3 run your clock in timed matchups in that case?

The short answer is because the timer in BG is a timer for the players, it doesn't run within the fight.

To be more specific, the fight clock is not a thing that exists within the mechanics of the fight. It is a thing for players, when the intent is for players to spend no more than X seconds in a fight. There are a lot of reasons why you would want a player's time to be capped in a fight. Most importantly, in all alliance modes fights are timed because if they were not, a single player crashing in a fight could permanently blockade all other players from continuing that path. The game would have no way to know if the player was coming back or not. A player could also grief his entire alliance by just pausing the game and putting their phone down. Stuff like that advocates for having finite times for any alliance mode fight.

Battlegrounds has a different requirement: the need for the matches to be relatively fast paced. BG could simply allow both players to fight until dead or they win. But then some fights could last for a very long time, while the other player was forced to just sit there and stare at their phone, with no idea when the next fight would take place. Fights are timed in part to keep things flowing. And since the fight timers everywhere (as far as I can recall) run constantly while the fight is ongoing no matter what's happening in side of it, including if you pause the fight - because as I said, the fight clock doesn't run *in* the fight, it runs outside the fight - the same happens in Battlegrounds.

But *if* you could change it to freeze during SP3, the devs almost certainly still wouldn't want to. That would give too much of an advantage to champions that can cycle a lot of SP3s. Think about Doom: pausing the fight timer during SP3 would offer the Doom cycle way too much of a scoring advantage.

Basically, when the game says a bleed does X damage per second, we are supposed to understand that is seconds of fight time. When the game is paused, that bleed doesn't continue to tick. When the fight is paused during an SP3 that bleed doesn't continue to tick. Combat isn't "happening" during those intervals; no game time has elapsed, no seconds have ticked, so that bleed doesn't do anything. But when you're told you have two minutes to fight a Battleground fight, that's real time. You have 120 seconds of real time to finish that fight, no matter what you choose to do with that time. Pausing the game doesn't stop that clock, performing an SP3 doesn't stop that clock, because that's a real time clock. It ticks whether combat is running or not.

willrun4adonut · October 15

DNA3000 said:

Graves_3 said:

DNA3000 said:

dr2ws said:
I’m referring to specifically the sp3, now I get it, if we pause the game purposefully on the sp1 and sp2 we take zero damage if we know we’re gonna eat it, but for people who are literally 2 seconds at the end and eats a sp3, is it fair you take all the damage when the timer ends? Personally not really, let me know your thoughts.
Special 1 and Special 2 attacks take place over time. Special 3 attacks don't actually take place over time: in combat terms they happen instantly. The animation takes place while combat itself is frozen in time. While SP3 animations are running, buffs and debuffs don't tick, damage over time effects don't deal damage, and nothing expires. The instant you or the defender initiates an SP3, everything that is going to happen happens instantly. The animation is just for the player's benefit.

You can pause during SP3 animations, and the fight timers can expire during SP3 animations, but the combat effects of the SP3 for the purposes of the fight have already happened.
Why does sp3 run your clock in timed matchups in that case?
The short answer is because the timer in BG is a timer for the players, it doesn't run within the fight.

To be more specific, the fight clock is not a thing that exists within the mechanics of the fight. It is a thing for players, when the intent is for players to spend no more than X seconds in a fight. There are a lot of reasons why you would want a player's time to be capped in a fight. Most importantly, in all alliance modes fights are timed because if they were not, a single player crashing in a fight could permanently blockade all other players from continuing that path. The game would have no way to know if the player was coming back or not. A player could also grief his entire alliance by just pausing the game and putting their phone down. Stuff like that advocates for having finite times for any alliance mode fight.

Battlegrounds has a different requirement: the need for the matches to be relatively fast paced. BG could simply allow both players to fight until dead or they win. But then some fights could last for a very long time, while the other player was forced to just sit there and stare at their phone, with no idea when the next fight would take place. Fights are timed in part to keep things flowing. And since the fight timers everywhere (as far as I can recall) run constantly while the fight is ongoing no matter what's happening in side of it, including if you pause the fight - because as I said, the fight clock doesn't run *in* the fight, it runs outside the fight - the same happens in Battlegrounds.

But *if* you could change it to freeze during SP3, the devs almost certainly still wouldn't want to. That would give too much of an advantage to champions that can cycle a lot of SP3s. Think about Doom: pausing the fight timer during SP3 would offer the Doom cycle way too much of a scoring advantage.

Basically, when the game says a bleed does X damage per second, we are supposed to understand that is seconds of fight time. When the game is paused, that bleed doesn't continue to tick. When the fight is paused during an SP3 that bleed doesn't continue to tick. Combat isn't "happening" during those intervals; no game time has elapsed, no seconds have ticked, so that bleed doesn't do anything. But when you're told you have two minutes to fight a Battleground fight, that's real time. You have 120 seconds of real time to finish that fight, no matter what you choose to do with that time. Pausing the game doesn't stop that clock, performing an SP3 doesn't stop that clock, because that's a real time clock. It ticks whether combat is running or not.

Pretty good answer for a "smuck" (referencing other thread, which is a joke on my part, because you nor your answers are a "smuck).

Graves_3 · October 15

DNA3000 said:

Graves_3 said:

DNA3000 said:

dr2ws said:
I’m referring to specifically the sp3, now I get it, if we pause the game purposefully on the sp1 and sp2 we take zero damage if we know we’re gonna eat it, but for people who are literally 2 seconds at the end and eats a sp3, is it fair you take all the damage when the timer ends? Personally not really, let me know your thoughts.
Special 1 and Special 2 attacks take place over time. Special 3 attacks don't actually take place over time: in combat terms they happen instantly. The animation takes place while combat itself is frozen in time. While SP3 animations are running, buffs and debuffs don't tick, damage over time effects don't deal damage, and nothing expires. The instant you or the defender initiates an SP3, everything that is going to happen happens instantly. The animation is just for the player's benefit.

You can pause during SP3 animations, and the fight timers can expire during SP3 animations, but the combat effects of the SP3 for the purposes of the fight have already happened.
Why does sp3 run your clock in timed matchups in that case?
The short answer is because the timer in BG is a timer for the players, it doesn't run within the fight.

To be more specific, the fight clock is not a thing that exists within the mechanics of the fight. It is a thing for players, when the intent is for players to spend no more than X seconds in a fight. There are a lot of reasons why you would want a player's time to be capped in a fight. Most importantly, in all alliance modes fights are timed because if they were not, a single player crashing in a fight could permanently blockade all other players from continuing that path. The game would have no way to know if the player was coming back or not. A player could also grief his entire alliance by just pausing the game and putting their phone down. Stuff like that advocates for having finite times for any alliance mode fight.

Battlegrounds has a different requirement: the need for the matches to be relatively fast paced. BG could simply allow both players to fight until dead or they win. But then some fights could last for a very long time, while the other player was forced to just sit there and stare at their phone, with no idea when the next fight would take place. Fights are timed in part to keep things flowing. And since the fight timers everywhere (as far as I can recall) run constantly while the fight is ongoing no matter what's happening in side of it, including if you pause the fight - because as I said, the fight clock doesn't run *in* the fight, it runs outside the fight - the same happens in Battlegrounds.

But *if* you could change it to freeze during SP3, the devs almost certainly still wouldn't want to. That would give too much of an advantage to champions that can cycle a lot of SP3s. Think about Doom: pausing the fight timer during SP3 would offer the Doom cycle way too much of a scoring advantage.

Basically, when the game says a bleed does X damage per second, we are supposed to understand that is seconds of fight time. When the game is paused, that bleed doesn't continue to tick. When the fight is paused during an SP3 that bleed doesn't continue to tick. Combat isn't "happening" during those intervals; no game time has elapsed, no seconds have ticked, so that bleed doesn't do anything. But when you're told you have two minutes to fight a Battleground fight, that's real time. You have 120 seconds of real time to finish that fight, no matter what you choose to do with that time. Pausing the game doesn't stop that clock, performing an SP3 doesn't stop that clock, because that's a real time clock. It ticks whether combat is running or not.

Now I am curious how the scoring works. Does it take the sp3 as 1 second and give credit for whatever time spent fighting minus the time taken for sp3 animation? Talking about BG’s of course.

DNA3000 · October 15

Graves_3 said:

DNA3000 said:

Graves_3 said:

DNA3000 said:

dr2ws said:
I’m referring to specifically the sp3, now I get it, if we pause the game purposefully on the sp1 and sp2 we take zero damage if we know we’re gonna eat it, but for people who are literally 2 seconds at the end and eats a sp3, is it fair you take all the damage when the timer ends? Personally not really, let me know your thoughts.
Special 1 and Special 2 attacks take place over time. Special 3 attacks don't actually take place over time: in combat terms they happen instantly. The animation takes place while combat itself is frozen in time. While SP3 animations are running, buffs and debuffs don't tick, damage over time effects don't deal damage, and nothing expires. The instant you or the defender initiates an SP3, everything that is going to happen happens instantly. The animation is just for the player's benefit.

You can pause during SP3 animations, and the fight timers can expire during SP3 animations, but the combat effects of the SP3 for the purposes of the fight have already happened.
Why does sp3 run your clock in timed matchups in that case?
The short answer is because the timer in BG is a timer for the players, it doesn't run within the fight.

To be more specific, the fight clock is not a thing that exists within the mechanics of the fight. It is a thing for players, when the intent is for players to spend no more than X seconds in a fight. There are a lot of reasons why you would want a player's time to be capped in a fight. Most importantly, in all alliance modes fights are timed because if they were not, a single player crashing in a fight could permanently blockade all other players from continuing that path. The game would have no way to know if the player was coming back or not. A player could also grief his entire alliance by just pausing the game and putting their phone down. Stuff like that advocates for having finite times for any alliance mode fight.

Battlegrounds has a different requirement: the need for the matches to be relatively fast paced. BG could simply allow both players to fight until dead or they win. But then some fights could last for a very long time, while the other player was forced to just sit there and stare at their phone, with no idea when the next fight would take place. Fights are timed in part to keep things flowing. And since the fight timers everywhere (as far as I can recall) run constantly while the fight is ongoing no matter what's happening in side of it, including if you pause the fight - because as I said, the fight clock doesn't run *in* the fight, it runs outside the fight - the same happens in Battlegrounds.

But *if* you could change it to freeze during SP3, the devs almost certainly still wouldn't want to. That would give too much of an advantage to champions that can cycle a lot of SP3s. Think about Doom: pausing the fight timer during SP3 would offer the Doom cycle way too much of a scoring advantage.

Basically, when the game says a bleed does X damage per second, we are supposed to understand that is seconds of fight time. When the game is paused, that bleed doesn't continue to tick. When the fight is paused during an SP3 that bleed doesn't continue to tick. Combat isn't "happening" during those intervals; no game time has elapsed, no seconds have ticked, so that bleed doesn't do anything. But when you're told you have two minutes to fight a Battleground fight, that's real time. You have 120 seconds of real time to finish that fight, no matter what you choose to do with that time. Pausing the game doesn't stop that clock, performing an SP3 doesn't stop that clock, because that's a real time clock. It ticks whether combat is running or not.
Now I am curious how the scoring works. Does it take the sp3 as 1 second and give credit for whatever time spent fighting minus the time taken for sp3 animation? Talking about BG’s of course.

That I'm not sure about, because I don't use SP3 often in BG, and because the way the fight stats report time is not always scoring-accurate (i.e. I believe they report your time in the fight, not the actual total time elapsed - cf: 117 seconds when the player plays until expiration). That makes it hard to know without careful measurements.

Pikolu · October 15

Graves_3 said:

DNA3000 said:

Graves_3 said:

DNA3000 said:

dr2ws said:
I’m referring to specifically the sp3, now I get it, if we pause the game purposefully on the sp1 and sp2 we take zero damage if we know we’re gonna eat it, but for people who are literally 2 seconds at the end and eats a sp3, is it fair you take all the damage when the timer ends? Personally not really, let me know your thoughts.
Special 1 and Special 2 attacks take place over time. Special 3 attacks don't actually take place over time: in combat terms they happen instantly. The animation takes place while combat itself is frozen in time. While SP3 animations are running, buffs and debuffs don't tick, damage over time effects don't deal damage, and nothing expires. The instant you or the defender initiates an SP3, everything that is going to happen happens instantly. The animation is just for the player's benefit.

You can pause during SP3 animations, and the fight timers can expire during SP3 animations, but the combat effects of the SP3 for the purposes of the fight have already happened.
Why does sp3 run your clock in timed matchups in that case?
The short answer is because the timer in BG is a timer for the players, it doesn't run within the fight.

To be more specific, the fight clock is not a thing that exists within the mechanics of the fight. It is a thing for players, when the intent is for players to spend no more than X seconds in a fight. There are a lot of reasons why you would want a player's time to be capped in a fight. Most importantly, in all alliance modes fights are timed because if they were not, a single player crashing in a fight could permanently blockade all other players from continuing that path. The game would have no way to know if the player was coming back or not. A player could also grief his entire alliance by just pausing the game and putting their phone down. Stuff like that advocates for having finite times for any alliance mode fight.

Battlegrounds has a different requirement: the need for the matches to be relatively fast paced. BG could simply allow both players to fight until dead or they win. But then some fights could last for a very long time, while the other player was forced to just sit there and stare at their phone, with no idea when the next fight would take place. Fights are timed in part to keep things flowing. And since the fight timers everywhere (as far as I can recall) run constantly while the fight is ongoing no matter what's happening in side of it, including if you pause the fight - because as I said, the fight clock doesn't run *in* the fight, it runs outside the fight - the same happens in Battlegrounds.

But *if* you could change it to freeze during SP3, the devs almost certainly still wouldn't want to. That would give too much of an advantage to champions that can cycle a lot of SP3s. Think about Doom: pausing the fight timer during SP3 would offer the Doom cycle way too much of a scoring advantage.

Basically, when the game says a bleed does X damage per second, we are supposed to understand that is seconds of fight time. When the game is paused, that bleed doesn't continue to tick. When the fight is paused during an SP3 that bleed doesn't continue to tick. Combat isn't "happening" during those intervals; no game time has elapsed, no seconds have ticked, so that bleed doesn't do anything. But when you're told you have two minutes to fight a Battleground fight, that's real time. You have 120 seconds of real time to finish that fight, no matter what you choose to do with that time. Pausing the game doesn't stop that clock, performing an SP3 doesn't stop that clock, because that's a real time clock. It ticks whether combat is running or not.
Now I am curious how the scoring works. Does it take the sp3 as 1 second and give credit for whatever time spent fighting minus the time taken for sp3 animation? Talking about BG’s of course.

Based on my understanding of the BGs scoring sysyem, scoring is based on when the server receives the KO from your client. If you have a 15 second fight, but have 15 seconds of loading time, then you finish the round with the score 30 seconds get you. The KO is shown at the end of the sp3 so using a 10 second long sp3 at the 45 second mark will yield 55 second scoring since that is when the KO is shown.

If you look at the stats of each bg fight, you'll see that the fight time is always less than what it shows on the scoring screen.

Toproller89 · October 15

Pikolu said:

Graves_3 said:

DNA3000 said:

Graves_3 said:

DNA3000 said:

dr2ws said:
I’m referring to specifically the sp3, now I get it, if we pause the game purposefully on the sp1 and sp2 we take zero damage if we know we’re gonna eat it, but for people who are literally 2 seconds at the end and eats a sp3, is it fair you take all the damage when the timer ends? Personally not really, let me know your thoughts.
Special 1 and Special 2 attacks take place over time. Special 3 attacks don't actually take place over time: in combat terms they happen instantly. The animation takes place while combat itself is frozen in time. While SP3 animations are running, buffs and debuffs don't tick, damage over time effects don't deal damage, and nothing expires. The instant you or the defender initiates an SP3, everything that is going to happen happens instantly. The animation is just for the player's benefit.

You can pause during SP3 animations, and the fight timers can expire during SP3 animations, but the combat effects of the SP3 for the purposes of the fight have already happened.
Why does sp3 run your clock in timed matchups in that case?
The short answer is because the timer in BG is a timer for the players, it doesn't run within the fight.

To be more specific, the fight clock is not a thing that exists within the mechanics of the fight. It is a thing for players, when the intent is for players to spend no more than X seconds in a fight. There are a lot of reasons why you would want a player's time to be capped in a fight. Most importantly, in all alliance modes fights are timed because if they were not, a single player crashing in a fight could permanently blockade all other players from continuing that path. The game would have no way to know if the player was coming back or not. A player could also grief his entire alliance by just pausing the game and putting their phone down. Stuff like that advocates for having finite times for any alliance mode fight.

Battlegrounds has a different requirement: the need for the matches to be relatively fast paced. BG could simply allow both players to fight until dead or they win. But then some fights could last for a very long time, while the other player was forced to just sit there and stare at their phone, with no idea when the next fight would take place. Fights are timed in part to keep things flowing. And since the fight timers everywhere (as far as I can recall) run constantly while the fight is ongoing no matter what's happening in side of it, including if you pause the fight - because as I said, the fight clock doesn't run *in* the fight, it runs outside the fight - the same happens in Battlegrounds.

But *if* you could change it to freeze during SP3, the devs almost certainly still wouldn't want to. That would give too much of an advantage to champions that can cycle a lot of SP3s. Think about Doom: pausing the fight timer during SP3 would offer the Doom cycle way too much of a scoring advantage.

Basically, when the game says a bleed does X damage per second, we are supposed to understand that is seconds of fight time. When the game is paused, that bleed doesn't continue to tick. When the fight is paused during an SP3 that bleed doesn't continue to tick. Combat isn't "happening" during those intervals; no game time has elapsed, no seconds have ticked, so that bleed doesn't do anything. But when you're told you have two minutes to fight a Battleground fight, that's real time. You have 120 seconds of real time to finish that fight, no matter what you choose to do with that time. Pausing the game doesn't stop that clock, performing an SP3 doesn't stop that clock, because that's a real time clock. It ticks whether combat is running or not.
Now I am curious how the scoring works. Does it take the sp3 as 1 second and give credit for whatever time spent fighting minus the time taken for sp3 animation? Talking about BG’s of course.
Based on my understanding of the BGs scoring sysyem, scoring is based on when the server receives the KO from your client. If you have a 15 second fight, but have 15 seconds of loading time, then you finish the round with the score 30 seconds get you. The KO is shown at the end of the sp3 so using a 10 second long sp3 at the 45 second mark will yield 55 second scoring since that is when the KO is shown.

If you look at the stats of each bg fight, you'll see that the fight time is always less than what it shows on the scoring screen.

So, all other things being equal, a superior device and internet connection decides winners? Figures

Is it fair you take damage after the bgs timer runs out during a sp3?

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