We need to address the Banquet Crystal token point reduction

2

Comments

  • GamerGamer Member Posts: 11,115 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
  • JustinDunn20JustinDunn20 Member Posts: 10
    This is my whole argument over the point issue for the tokens. I did get some tickets in game just with mysterium etc, but 95% of the tickets i accumulated and invested in those tokens were from BUYING deals EVERY week. Which i tend to buy at least 1 per week, but especially focused on it for the tickets. I invested every ticket towards the tokens because I naively thought that I was just buying banquet crystals early basically. As in over time I would ve able to spend more than I would starting from scratch the day of the banquet event. To me it was no different spending money to buy tickets for tokens that it is to buy banquet crystals during the event. That's even what Kabam was saying by having this whole token deal in the first place. So basically I'm getting punished for BUYING banquet crystals early by not getting the points I feel we all should get for people that did the same thing as me. Other than that issue I'm super excited about the event. People have complaints about the event milestones etc., but I personally am fine with everything in that regard. Kabam, seriously, think about this token issue a little harder! People spent money for these tokens, which is no different than buying crystals the same way. Chang the damn points for thw tokens and make everyone happy
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 817 ★★★
    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @ DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    The only thing 'different' is the change from GBC to SBC. The other is just additional information.
  • GamerGamer Member Posts: 11,115 ★★★★★

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @ DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    The only thing 'different' is the change from GBC to SBC. The other is just additional information.
    Yes with should had ben apart of from the start not 3 months after I live with it but that’s just me
  • Cap_MuricaCap_Murica Member Posts: 428 ★★★

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @ DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    The only thing 'different' is the change from GBC to SBC. The other is just additional information.
    What you call as additional piece of information is a big thing to a lot of people.
  • Average_DesiAverage_Desi Member Posts: 817 ★★★

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @ DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    The only thing 'different' is the change from GBC to SBC. The other is just additional information.
    What you call as additional piece of information is a big thing to a lot of people.
    The answer to that has already been written by DNA.
  • DrZolaDrZola Member Posts: 9,160 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.
    There is a cash for in game item transaction that occurs before tickets are exchanged for Banquet crystals.

    As I noted above, I can see arguments for both sides, but to dismiss out of hand the notion that certain Banquet crystals aren’t paid for when players use real world currency to buy the means to obtain them feels deficient.

    It’s fine that the team decided to make clear in game (albeit recently) their interpretation of how this all works—it is a defensible interpretation. But it’s also defensible to take the opposing side as well as to take issue with the belated clarification.

    Dr. Zola
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,311 ★★★★★
    Normax_X said:

    Did there used to be GBC in money deals? Did those give the same points as purchasing with units?

    I think during x-mas. There's always the 10 for $50 deal that pops up. But even then, you are actually purchasing them.

    Technically, you aren't purchasing SBCs with tokens since the tokens are just placeholders. They can't give us the crystals early since they aren't available until tomorrow. Those will be like the ones we get from milestones.

    I can see a case for the tokens earned from purchases like daily offers. But since you are buying tokens and trading for a crystal, there's no way to transfer that "value" of which token was traded.

    Essentially they would need 2 versions of the gifting crystals.
    and ur trading in units for crystals so where's the difference here. buying SBCs with units is trading the units for them why isnt trading the tickets for SBCs also count as purchasing? in past banquets when u buy the 50$ bubdle for 10 crystals they count as purchasing, so why is spending on tickets that gets u a crystal (essentially having a middle man) not count as a purchase? that would be like paying the 50$ getting 10 tokens and trading them in, not counting as purchasing and not telling you that it doesnt until after u buy it
    Units are a currency. Tickets are not a currency.
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Member Posts: 1,022 ★★★★

    Normax_X said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    You need to calm down. "Unethical business practices" lol. They didn't change anything at the last minute. You're making that part up. And they recently made it to where you can exchange the tokens for the SBCs. That isn't an issue, that's them increasing the value of that token.

    You only just found out the points earned yesterday so how on earth could they have "changed it at the last moment"?
    "they didnt change anything at the last minute" the fact that they changed the description a few weeks ago after everyone bought them to "this only counts as opening points" means people were confused , there was a reason for them to change that. and ccp members have said they didnt like this *change* and didnt agree when kabam told them. And theres always been a purchasing and opening set of points so no i didnt "only find out yesterday" we assumed it would be both if they wanted to state it in rhe description they shouldve done so since day 1
    Can you post the discription screenshot?
    Just curious, I have nothing to do with this thread. I'm 66-33 on your side normie.
    What side does the last 1% land on?
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Member Posts: 1,022 ★★★★
    Normax_X said:

    Did there used to be GBC in money deals? Did those give the same points as purchasing with units?

    I think during x-mas. There's always the 10 for $50 deal that pops up. But even then, you are actually purchasing them.

    Technically, you aren't purchasing SBCs with tokens since the tokens are just placeholders. They can't give us the crystals early since they aren't available until tomorrow. Those will be like the ones we get from milestones.

    I can see a case for the tokens earned from purchases like daily offers. But since you are buying tokens and trading for a crystal, there's no way to transfer that "value" of which token was traded.

    Essentially they would need 2 versions of the gifting crystals.
    and ur trading in units for crystals so where's the difference here. buying SBCs with units is trading the units for them why isnt trading the tickets for SBCs also count as purchasing? in past banquets when u buy the 50$ bubdle for 10 crystals they count as purchasing, so why is spending on tickets that gets u a crystal (essentially having a middle man) not count as a purchase? that would be like paying the 50$ getting 10 tokens and trading them in, not counting as purchasing and not telling you that it doesnt until after u buy it
    Don’t forget that there were 129 tickets, 12 SBC, that didn’t cost money or units, just time. So how do you differentiate between “bought” tokens and free tokens? The free tokens surely have no justification to award the purchase points no?
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Member Posts: 1,022 ★★★★

    If u were charged money to buy the tokens it should give the same points as unit bought. Simple as that. Kabam shouldn’t have sold the tokens in daily deals. In my opinion it is a very fair ask.

    And the free tokens?
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Member Posts: 1,022 ★★★★
    Normax_X said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    You need to calm down. "Unethical business practices" lol. They didn't change anything at the last minute. You're making that part up. And they recently made it to where you can exchange the tokens for the SBCs. That isn't an issue, that's them increasing the value of that token.

    You only just found out the points earned yesterday so how on earth could they have "changed it at the last moment"?
    "they didnt change anything at the last minute" the fact that they changed the description a few weeks ago after everyone bought them to "this only counts as opening points" means people were confused , there was a reason for them to change that. and ccp members have said they didnt like this *change* and didnt agree when kabam told them. And theres always been a purchasing and opening set of points so no i didnt "only find out yesterday" we assumed it would be both if they wanted to state it in rhe description they shouldve done so since day 1
    You know what they say about assumptions 🤷‍♂️
  • altavistaaltavista Member Posts: 1,495 ★★★★
    edited December 20
    Normax_X said:

    Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    “Invested time and resources into getting titan shards…. and since the new Titan pool has the last minute nerf of no Dazzler, I demand restitution.”

    “Invested time and resources into getting units … and alive the Cyber Week deals seemed to be nerfed at the last minute, I demand restitution.”

    The fact that you can replace “tokens” with anything else is kind of proof that the logic of your argument doesn’t hold water.

  • GamerGamer Member Posts: 11,115 ★★★★★

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @ DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    The only thing 'different' is the change from GBC to SBC. The other is just additional information.
    What you call as additional piece of information is a big thing to a lot of people.
    The answer to that has already been written by DNA.
    Transparency would have ben go way better if there just said it first I personally don’t care of it anymore not the first time there said it to late
  • SirGamesBondSirGamesBond Member Posts: 5,370 ★★★★★
    Shamir51 said:

    Normax_X said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    You need to calm down. "Unethical business practices" lol. They didn't change anything at the last minute. You're making that part up. And they recently made it to where you can exchange the tokens for the SBCs. That isn't an issue, that's them increasing the value of that token.

    You only just found out the points earned yesterday so how on earth could they have "changed it at the last moment"?
    "they didnt change anything at the last minute" the fact that they changed the description a few weeks ago after everyone bought them to "this only counts as opening points" means people were confused , there was a reason for them to change that. and ccp members have said they didnt like this *change* and didnt agree when kabam told them. And theres always been a purchasing and opening set of points so no i didnt "only find out yesterday" we assumed it would be both if they wanted to state it in rhe description they shouldve done so since day 1
    Can you post the discription screenshot?
    Just curious, I have nothing to do with this thread. I'm 66-33 on your side normie.
    What side does the last 1% land on?
    YouTube tax.
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,700 ★★★★
    Gamer said:

    Did there used to be GBC in money deals? Did those give the same points as purchasing with units?

    I think during x-mas. There's always the 10 for $50 deal that pops up. But even then, you are actually purchasing them.

    Technically, you aren't purchasing SBCs with tokens since the tokens are just placeholders. They can't give us the crystals early since they aren't available until tomorrow. Those will be like the ones we get from milestones.

    I can see a case for the tokens earned from purchases like daily offers. But since you are buying tokens and trading for a crystal, there's no way to transfer that "value" of which token was traded.

    Essentially they would need 2 versions of the gifting crystals.
    This it true i just wished Kabam would had ben more transparency of it there wasn’t there changed the description of the banguet token when there said the SBC would be gaining the old description didn’t say anything of the point with is the bad thing.
    Because it doesn't need to be said
  • WednesdayLengthWednesdayLength Member Posts: 1,700 ★★★★
    As far as I understood it from the jump the tokens were essentially proxies for the crystals before the crystals were actually added to the game and that's how they were described by crashed in the live stream. I never expected them to award full points because they're essentially just stand ins for the crystals, not something we use to buy them
  • FishSkinFishSkin Member Posts: 16
    Normax_X said:

    FishSkin said:

    Normax_X said:

    I don’t know if I’m the only one but I expected this much because it’s always been that way. When purchasing a gbc with units it awards more points then opening one for example reaching a gbc milestone and opening it, which has been an on going thing for a long time. You exchange the token for a gbc which isn’t the same as purchasing and opening one. So I was fully excepting this outcome, soz bud shoulda saved more units :blush:

    "shouldv'e saved more units" I have 21k I'm not arguing for myself it does not affect me whatsoever. I am arguing for the people that had the 400 points in mind and its about the principle. And no claiming a milestone is different. When someone explicitly states that something does X but not Y, it means theres a reasonable chance that people would assume one or the other, meaning there has to be a clear explanation prior to any people spending.
    So if you aren't arguing for yourself, and it doesn't affect you whatsoever - rather than stepping in for others, who probably haven't asked you to do so - why don't you come and join those of us that are excited for the event, and start spreading some peace and love with us over this festive season?

    Also, for someone not being affected whatsoever, "unethical business practices" and "scam" are strong terms.
    "start spreading peace and love" like im burning the place down😭 half the discord was arguing on the same issue yesterday in the official mcoc discord. And yeah if im not being affected doesnt mean theres not something wrong that happened, but that tells me enough about you lmao forget the ones who r affected and go have fun with the ones that dont care
    We’re talking about an event in a mobile game, which you are grossly ill informed on, and then regurgitating that misinformation.

    We aren’t talking World War 3 - so not entirely sure what accurate presumptions you could possibly make on me as a person.

    I hope the festive season gets better for you.
  • DicedicedicediceDicedicedicedice Member Posts: 127
    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    Faced with proof the apologist disappears! 😂😂
  • DrZolaDrZola Member Posts: 9,160 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    DrZola said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.
    There is a cash for in game item transaction that occurs before tickets are exchanged for Banquet crystals.

    As I noted above, I can see arguments for both sides, but to dismiss out of hand the notion that certain Banquet crystals aren’t paid for when players use real world currency to buy the means to obtain them feels deficient.

    It’s fine that the team decided to make clear in game (albeit recently) their interpretation of how this all works—it is a defensible interpretation. But it’s also defensible to take the opposing side as well as to take issue with the belated clarification.

    Dr. Zola
    You’re a lawyer. You know everything is defensible. But that’s not the same thing as saying it is reasonable. To take the position that if someone bought the daily offers because they contained tickets so they get to decide that they were bought is saying it is the buyer that decides what is being sold, not the actual seller. Someone could literally say they only paid for internet to read my posts, so my posts are being sold and they bought them, and with that comes obligations to honor the fact that they were sold to them. You can make that argument philosophically in a class room, and in a class room I’ll debate that one all day long with anyone who wants to. But in a real world setting, that is a dismissible position.

    As to the clarification, that was almost certainly in response to the initial confusion. It would be reasonable to make such a clarification after you see confusion. But the question is whether it should have been reasonable to predict that confusion in the first place. If it was, then the clarification was rectifying an error. If it wasn’t, than the clarification is a reasonable response to the situation, but it is not a situation Kabam is ultimately responsible for. Otherwise you’d be saying responding to an error on the players’ part should be construed as an admission of fault on Kaban’s part. Which means they should never try to clarify such situations ever again. That is what a Kabam lawyer might tell the dev team, right?
    I’m guessing a good lawyer would probably tell the dev team to stick to coding and bugs and let in-game text and offer phrasing be reviewed by people who do that for a living before it gets published to the game.

    Dr. Zola
  • Wubbie075Wubbie075 Member Posts: 742 ★★★

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    Faced with proof the apologist disappears! 😂😂
    Who disappeared?
  • Wubbie075Wubbie075 Member Posts: 742 ★★★
    005s said:

    I used 1500 units in the Incursions to attain these banquet tickets (got 10 of those). If known earlier would anyone play their mind altering games chasing these ticket which are worth 1/4 of purchase of a SBC. Could have attained almost 3 SBCs for same units spend.
    If not count as purchase, at least change the opening points gains to 150. Could achieve some milestones at least with 10 of the ticket SBCs.

    You used enough units to purchase 5 crystals to get enough tickets to trade for 1 crystal. Kabam is not the problem here.
  • FishSkinFishSkin Member Posts: 16
    edited December 20

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    Faced with proof the apologist disappears! 😂😂
    I wouldn’t say so.

    1 is for GBC where it doesn’t state points either way.

    The other states SBC and does confirm points.

    Those upset are still only upset because reality has not met their assumptions. The key word being assumptions.
  • DicedicedicediceDicedicedicedice Member Posts: 127
    FishSkin said:

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    Faced with proof the apologist disappears! 😂😂
    I wouldn’t say so.

    1 is for GBC where it doesn’t state points either way.

    The other states SBC and does confirm points.

    Those upset are still only upset because reality has not met their assumptions. The key word being assumptions.
    People have been buying this with real money for 3 months. This lack of empathy is astonishing.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,311 ★★★★★
    edited December 20

    FishSkin said:

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    Faced with proof the apologist disappears! 😂😂
    I wouldn’t say so.

    1 is for GBC where it doesn’t state points either way.

    The other states SBC and does confirm points.

    Those upset are still only upset because reality has not met their assumptions. The key word being assumptions.
    People have been buying this with real money for 3 months. This lack of empathy is astonishing.
    Well technically you're paying for the package that existed already. You aren't paying extra for the tickets. They come free with the purchase. Not only that, the main intention of the tickets was to purchase Mr. Sinister.
  • FishSkinFishSkin Member Posts: 16

    FishSkin said:

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    Faced with proof the apologist disappears! 😂😂
    I wouldn’t say so.

    1 is for GBC where it doesn’t state points either way.

    The other states SBC and does confirm points.

    Those upset are still only upset because reality has not met their assumptions. The key word being assumptions.
    People have been buying this with real money for 3 months. This lack of empathy is astonishing.
    I’m one of those people - I never assumed I’d be getting any points for them. Whether that be opening, trading, or both.

    I also recognise they were added to the daily deals FOR FREE. So not only was I getting tickets, but all the other goodies too.

    I also recognise they contributed to me being able to get amazing goodies from the Sinister bundles.

    So yeh. If the lack of empathy is “astonishing”, what word would you use for the vast amount of entitlement on display over this event?
  • FishSkinFishSkin Member Posts: 16
    edited December 20
    >
    FishSkin said:

    FishSkin said:

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    Faced with proof the apologist disappears! 😂😂
    I wouldn’t say so.

    1 is for GBC where it doesn’t state points either way.

    The other states SBC and does confirm points.

    Those upset are still only upset because reality has not met their assumptions. The key word being assumptions.
    People have been buying this with real money for 3 months. This lack of empathy is astonishing.
    I’m one of those people - I never assumed I’d be getting any points for them. Whether that be opening, trading, or both.

    I also recognise they were added to the daily deals FOR FREE. So not only was I getting tickets, but all the other goodies too.

    I also recognise they contributed to me being able to get amazing goodies from the Sinister bundles.

    So yeh. If the lack of empathy is “astonishing”, what word would you use for the vast amount of entitlement on display over this event?
    Not only that - Kabam generously upgraded my trade in tokens from GBC to SBC…

    I can’t empathise with people who make assumptions, then get upset when they don’t come true.

    And I can’t empathise with people who show a distinct lack of gratitude.
  • Wubbie075Wubbie075 Member Posts: 742 ★★★
    edited December 20
    FishSkin said:

    FishSkin said:

    Gamer said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Normax_X said:

    This post isn't about the rewards or ranked or any of that. I am only dicussing the token points that got changed last minute from 400 to 100. Over the past months, many players, myself included, have invested time and resources into getting tokens with the understanding that they would be exchanged for Banquet crystals and contribute to event points.

    However, the sudden addition of a clause AFTER the fact that people farmed using real money in daily deals stating that tickets will now only count for 100 points rather than 400 of the expected points is unacceptable. This decision significantly undermines the transparency we expect from Kabam.

    Many players made strategic decisions over months based on the original rules. Retroactively changing these rules feels exploitative and unfair. At minimum, the tickets’ original value be honored for this banquet event, as this was the implicit agreement when players acquired them.

    They also said that they decided to allow us to get the superior banquet crystal rather than the intended lower banquet crystal, so we wouldv'e had two issues to deal with here had they not addressed this part early. Which again, did not state in the description that it would give us a lower than expected crystal prior to people spending.

    Kabam needs to address this as it quite literally falls within unethical business practice by definition or to put it bluntly, its a scam.

    This is 100% false. There was no sudden or hidden point "change." You get 100 points for opening an SBC. You get 300 points for buying an SBC. The players trying to play dictionary games with what the meaning of "buying" is are claiming that when you exchange tickets for SBCs you're "buying them." That's simply not true.

    It has always been true that buying the banquet crystals gives points separate from opening them. And in the past, crystals you earned from things like milestones only granted the points for opening, not buying. This much is absolutely unambiguously true. However, some players would like to think that when Kabam created the ticket system, that should count as "buying." Except the vast majority of tickets were basically given away for free within in-game content. You *could* get them as bonus items in purchases like daily offers, but even there those tickets were added to already existing offers without the offers changing price. There's no question you were not buying tickets, you were buying the offers and getting the tickets as a free bonus. So tickets aren't purchased, and thus there's no reasonable way to assert that they themselves "buy" the crystals. Anyone who thinks this must believe we "buy" Titan crystals with Titan shards, we "buy" T4B catalysts with fragments, etc. And that's just not true.

    The sideways argument goes like this: I would never have bought the daily offers if they didn't have the tickets, so yes I did in fact buy the tickets. Sorry, that doesn't work. Whatever your motivation for buying the offers has nothing to do with what you actually bought. You can *say* "I only bought this because I knew I would get that, so I bought that" but that doesn't mean they sold it to you and you actually bought it. This line of argument wouldn't work anywhere else.

    I get that some people misunderstood and are disappointed, but that's really on them. Thinking this is unethical or even illegal is a bridge way too far. If you had asked me before the banquet began if you'd get the purchase points for exchanging tickets for crystals, I would have said "almost certainly not. Kabam would have had to have lost their collective minds to do that. In fact, if they say they do, I would assume it is a typo." Because it is essentially nonsensical for them to count as purchases for the purpose of points.

    The banquet event is a spenders event. But like everything in this game, Kabam bends over backwards to try to accommodate free to play players. The whole entire purpose of the event, which traces back to the original gifting events, is to get spenders to spend, buying things with cash and units, in a more interesting setting than just buying offers. That's what it is, that's what it always has been. Everything else is window dressing, and accommodations for the 95% of players who don't spend. The tickets were themselves a way to extend that to allow free to play players to get even more participation in what is a spending event targeting spenders. And of course, if the tickets exist in an event targeting spenders, there would also be a way to buy some. Because of course. But tickets are not buying, because tickets are not cash and are not a direct intermediary for cash.

    I am a long time pessimist when it comes to these kinds of things. I am often predicting in what way the vocal community will explode over everything. And even I missed this one. I am clearly still insufficiently pessimistic.



    @DNA3000 two photos with two different description.

    But regardless I pointed it out 3 weeks ago ago no body was surprised but apparently a lot is
    Now
    Faced with proof the apologist disappears! 😂😂
    I wouldn’t say so.

    1 is for GBC where it doesn’t state points either way.

    The other states SBC and does confirm points.

    Those upset are still only upset because reality has not met their assumptions. The key word being assumptions.
    People have been buying this with real money for 3 months. This lack of empathy is astonishing.
    I’m one of those people - I never assumed I’d be getting any points for them. Whether that be opening, trading, or both.
    Same here. I didn't buy a huge number of tickets. I probably got 120-125 of the free tickets and bought enough that, with the tickets from accolades, I will get the 6* Sinister deal on top of the 7* one. I always assumed I would not be getting the points for purchase.
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