Also the fact the livestream was prerecorded just goes to show you didn’t want to face the community backlash.
I'm curious to know what difference it would make being live or pre-recorded. They don't have to answer things said in chat. It's not a Q & A. They've already "faced" the backlash. They've told you that the problem wasn't the crystals but more so that they overvalued the keys. They've made several posts, answered on discord etc.. what more do you want them to answer?
I want to know in what way crashed measures this as a success. I have not seen this much backlash in a long time. Like 99% of the community in agreement that it was horrible then the few like you and gw with a brown nose being the 1% minority always defending them. I would love to see crashed’s analytics that he shows in any way this event was a success. Words are words. Proof is in the evidence. Now go put your head back where it belongs.
He didn't say it was resounding success but it's more successful than how you're thinking of it.
like I said words are words. I would love to see the evidence to support it.
Weren't you pushing a boycott? What evidence would suffice for someone with that position?
The issue is he's talking about their goals from a data perspective, which is fair. That's what they base everything on. If their objectives were met through the data, then that shows the Event as a success. Unfortunately, the disparity is between the data and the feedback and I'm afraid no matter how much noise we make, if people put the numbers up, then that's going to reflect. Which is why there's nothing more they can add. They could say, "We see you're not happy.". That wouldn't help anything. It would just enflame the situation. None of the suggested solutions were feasible. Redoing the Crystal code...refunding people their Units....giving people twice the Crystals....all of that was unreasonable. Sorry to be the one to say it, but it was. So there's nothing much else they can say until they look at the results. This wasn't the type of Event that could be adjusted on the spot like that. They added some extras through the Milestones. That's the best we were going to get.
Its very fair on data perspective. Not sure how a tool for discord and forum would have analytic data... All it takes is 1 person to read the posts and see the community is heavily unhappy. Not sure how a tool is gonna weight in "upset" as data... Now the middle finger counter on discord could be analyzed...
Not sure about that one. John would have to speak for himself. I'm not big on Discord.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
You are an assumption making machine...My rewards got limited because what would be suitable for me is too much for. TB account. It has nothing to do with me and whales getting R4s. Because they are in the same pool I got less 7* crystals and Titan crystals, that translates to awakenings and sig levels. I ended up with an overflow of t5cc and way too much t6b, t3a and t6cc included, which for a TB has a lot more value than players like me. Is that clear enough now? One of the highest milestones was an r1-2 Gem while I''m sitting on overflow of r2 mats if you can't see the problem is because you benefitted from this event.
No you didn't. You and others keep thinking you're getting TB rewards. No. TBs got valiant rewards but you have no proof you got less because TBs and Paragons had access to the same crystal.
Last year, all progressions had access to the GBCs. Were you mad last year that TBs could get T4A? You're not getting less.
Just like with all high ranking materials, they slow roll it out. It was the same last year for rank 3's. Started small but we quickly had access to more which will be the same.
Wrong. You want proof? The fact that one of the highest milestones had an R1-R2 gem is pretty good proof that I got TB rewards. The fact that the crystals were loaded with a 30% drop rate of t6cc frags, something that as Valiant I got plenty of access thru BG, Glory Store and content is pretty good proof that my rewards were limited by sharing the pool. Opening 80+ crystals and getting 2 7* crystals and less than 1 Titan is proof that I got less rewards.
Last year? I was mad I was getting 6* shards, and **** materials because I shared a pool with TBs,and Cavs... Which is a reason I said last banquet was horrible and this one was worse.
Objectively speaking, is it true that if SBCs were targeted only at Valiants, or if the entire banquet was progression tiered and Valiants had exclusive rewards, then SBCs and the milestone rewards would have been higher? Yes.
However, there is a huge BUT in there. Valiant rewards were constrained by three different limiting factors, and the fact that Valiants, Paragons, and TBs were basically lumped together is, in my judgment, the least impactful of the three. The second most impactful balancing constraint was the fact that SBCs were not just balanced in value between three different progression tiers, they were also balanced around a gigantic range of purchasing. They needed to account for players opening ten or ten thousand. When you balance rewards in general, you have to account for at least two different balance points: the average return, and the guardrails, You need to make sure that the rewards make sense for the average player doing average things, but you also need to make sure that the absolute maximum possible return does not exceed certain limits. The banquet is the rare event where the guardrails are almost impossible to accurately predict. This places downward pressure on the value of the part of the event that is unlimited in scope: the crystals.
But even that is not the largest constraint on Valiant rewards. The largest constraint on Valiant rewards is that Valiant is the top progression tier (at the moment). The top progression tier is *never* going to consistently get rewards that the players in that tier consider “appropriate” relative to other tiers. All other tiers are largely constrained above and below by other tiers. The range of Paragon players can only get so wide, because at some point they become Valiant players. But because Valiant has no ceiling, the range of players in that tier can get arbitrarily far apart.
If you aim rewards for the middle of Paragon, you’re going to land somewhere near where those rewards should be for low and high Paragons. But if you aim for the middle of Valiant, you’ll be much farther away from the low Valiants and the high Valiants, and the high Valiants keep getting higher every day. You say the fact that one of the higher milestones was an R1->R2 gem means the rewards were tuned for TB. Why? Because Valiants stop ranking 7* champs? Do you think in a perfect world Valiants would have been getting R2->R3 gems in milestone 25? That seems unlikely to me.
There are a lot of Valiants who have in a sense outgrown the Valiant progression tiers. That’s inevitable. The very players who make it to the top tier early are the fastest players: they will grow beyond its original limits much more quickly than intended, precisely because they are the fastest players in the game. But the game can’t accommodate their speed. The game cannot open new progressions as fast as they can reach them, and thus cannot accelerate rewards as fast as would be necessary to do so either. Most Valiant rewards are targeted at “low Valiants” because in the long run most players will be low Valiants. Down the road, the “high Valiants” won’t be high Valiants. They’ll already be in the next tier. But the reward target cannot accelerate upward with them while Valiant is the top progression tiers. And that means even if the entire banquet was designed with Valiant specific rewards, I doubt if those rewards would be “appropriate” as you appear to believe they should be. And they are never going to be.
That’s life in the top tier of progression. If you want to race out to the end of the line, your get to sit back and watch the tracks being laid out. If the banquet contained a Valiant designed reward system, the rewards would have been higher by some amount, but I would bet you’d have said “is that all?” They wouldn’t have increased by enough for you to even care.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
You are an assumption making machine...My rewards got limited because what would be suitable for me is too much for. TB account. It has nothing to do with me and whales getting R4s. Because they are in the same pool I got less 7* crystals and Titan crystals, that translates to awakenings and sig levels. I ended up with an overflow of t5cc and way too much t6b, t3a and t6cc included, which for a TB has a lot more value than players like me. Is that clear enough now? One of the highest milestones was an r1-2 Gem while I''m sitting on overflow of r2 mats if you can't see the problem is because you benefitted from this event.
No you didn't. You and others keep thinking you're getting TB rewards. No. TBs got valiant rewards but you have no proof you got less because TBs and Paragons had access to the same crystal.
Last year, all progressions had access to the GBCs. Were you mad last year that TBs could get T4A? You're not getting less.
Just like with all high ranking materials, they slow roll it out. It was the same last year for rank 3's. Started small but we quickly had access to more which will be the same.
Wrong. You want proof? The fact that one of the highest milestones had an R1-R2 gem is pretty good proof that I got TB rewards. The fact that the crystals were loaded with a 30% drop rate of t6cc frags, something that as Valiant I got plenty of access thru BG, Glory Store and content is pretty good proof that my rewards were limited by sharing the pool. Opening 80+ crystals and getting 2 7* crystals and less than 1 Titan is proof that I got less rewards.
Last year? I was mad I was getting 6* shards, and **** materials because I shared a pool with TBs,and Cavs... Which is a reason I said last banquet was horrible and this one was worse.
Objectively speaking, is it true that if SBCs were targeted only at Valiants, or if the entire banquet was progression tiered and Valiants had exclusive rewards, then SBCs and the milestone rewards would have been higher? Yes.
However, there is a huge BUT in there. Valiant rewards were constrained by three different limiting factors, and the fact that Valiants, Paragons, and TBs were basically lumped together is, in my judgment, the least impactful of the three. The second most impactful balancing constraint was the fact that SBCs were not just balanced in value between three different progression tiers, they were also balanced around a gigantic range of purchasing. They needed to account for players opening ten or ten thousand. When you balance rewards in general, you have to account for at least two different balance points: the average return, and the guardrails, You need to make sure that the rewards make sense for the average player doing average things, but you also need to make sure that the absolute maximum possible return does not exceed certain limits. The banquet is the rare event where the guardrails are almost impossible to accurately predict. This places downward pressure on the value of the part of the event that is unlimited in scope: the crystals.
But even that is not the largest constraint on Valiant rewards. The largest constraint on Valiant rewards is that Valiant is the top progression tier (at the moment). The top progression tier is *never* going to consistently get rewards that the players in that tier consider “appropriate” relative to other tiers. All other tiers are largely constrained above and below by other tiers. The range of Paragon players can only get so wide, because at some point they become Valiant players. But because Valiant has no ceiling, the range of players in that tier can get arbitrarily far apart.
If you aim rewards for the middle of Paragon, you’re going to land somewhere near where those rewards should be for low and high Paragons. But if you aim for the middle of Valiant, you’ll be much farther away from the low Valiants and the high Valiants, and the high Valiants keep getting higher every day. You say the fact that one of the higher milestones was an R1->R2 gem means the rewards were tuned for TB. Why? Because Valiants stop ranking 7* champs? Do you think in a perfect world Valiants would have been getting R2->R3 gems in milestone 25? That seems unlikely to me.
There are a lot of Valiants who have in a sense outgrown the Valiant progression tiers. That’s inevitable. The very players who make it to the top tier early are the fastest players: they will grow beyond its original limits much more quickly than intended, precisely because they are the fastest players in the game. But the game can’t accommodate their speed. The game cannot open new progressions as fast as they can reach them, and thus cannot accelerate rewards as fast as would be necessary to do so either. Most Valiant rewards are targeted at “low Valiants” because in the long run most players will be low Valiants. Down the road, the “high Valiants” won’t be high Valiants. They’ll already be in the next tier. But the reward target cannot accelerate upward with them while Valiant is the top progression tiers. And that means even if the entire banquet was designed with Valiant specific rewards, I doubt if those rewards would be “appropriate” as you appear to believe they should be. And they are never going to be.
That’s life in the top tier of progression. If you want to race out to the end of the line, your get to sit back and watch the tracks being laid out. If the banquet contained a Valiant designed reward system, the rewards would have been higher by some amount, but I would bet you’d have said “is that all?” They wouldn’t have increased by enough for you to even care.
I got respect for you, doesn't mean I agree. Being in the same pool had an impact in the content of the crystals, and just to add to this impact they had to attach a stupid realm event to it, making rewards even more limited. Add a bit of insult? End up telling us to think on the realm event as part of a package of rewards when they told us before realm event rewards were not part of the reward budget. Banquet/Gifting had been since released the most monetized and biggest spending event, why on earth did they decide to make the heaviest spending event into a chance for players to catch up is beyond me.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
You are an assumption making machine...My rewards got limited because what would be suitable for me is too much for. TB account. It has nothing to do with me and whales getting R4s. Because they are in the same pool I got less 7* crystals and Titan crystals, that translates to awakenings and sig levels. I ended up with an overflow of t5cc and way too much t6b, t3a and t6cc included, which for a TB has a lot more value than players like me. Is that clear enough now? One of the highest milestones was an r1-2 Gem while I''m sitting on overflow of r2 mats if you can't see the problem is because you benefitted from this event.
brother, i'm sure you've played for a long time so you know how the game works.
kabam separates progression into different rooms. when a new rank comes out they create a new room, put the shiniest tastiest bait in there and entice superwhales to get it. me and you are free to try for it but since we're not trillionaire oil tycoons, we can't.
so what do we do? we wait patiently in our current rooms while kabam starts shuffling paragons and TB'ers into it. you might not like it but that's how it's always worked.
as we temporarily share the same space with paragons and TBers, in the next 6-8 months kabam will start giving non-whale valiants better access to r4s (content, objectives, special spring cleaning and july 4 offers) and we'll eventually join the oil sheiks and business owners in the fancy room and finally leave the gross yucky disgusting paragons and TBers to themselves. that's how the game works.
sidenote: if we got more 7* shards and sig stones, it would only accelerate the economy and bring about 8*s even faster and we would complain about that too!
Oh ffs I DONT CARE ABOUT THE R4s, stop telling me I am put in a group to separate me from whales. How the heck do you know wether I am a heavy spender or not to be magically separating me from the whales? Do you want to know why I didn't spend on this event? Because the crystals were terrible. Why were they terrible? Because they were limited to what it was suitable for TBs. Funny you think that more 7* shards and sigs would accelerate 8*s... Its more r4s what would accelerate it not sig levels... You like comparing this event to CM so much, tell me why CM which is about a month apart from Banquet was progression gated and Banquet wasn't. I mean you like comparing them so much...
you're asking why cyber monday had a valiant specific progression gate but not banquet? because r4 mats didn't exist yet. after creating the new chase in december they had to shift the game, downgrade r3s, and also let the earlier guys catch up (or the game is toast).
me and you are stuck in a situation where we can't afford a $50k r4 so we have to wait for a clearance sale (objectives, content, spring cleaning, july 4).
7* shards and sig stones DO accelerate the game. extra shards fast forward the champ chase and sig stones are basically shards since we get 20 sigs from crystal openings.
when we run out of both shards and sigs and start having champs at sig 200, we start demanding rank ups and if that goes too fast kabam might have to slow rank progression which makes us bored or has to speed it up which means getting 8*s faster.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
Pause. I’m fine with mega whale valiants being ahead, they always are… that’s the normal.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
You are an assumption making machine...My rewards got limited because what would be suitable for me is too much for. TB account. It has nothing to do with me and whales getting R4s. Because they are in the same pool I got less 7* crystals and Titan crystals, that translates to awakenings and sig levels. I ended up with an overflow of t5cc and way too much t6b, t3a and t6cc included, which for a TB has a lot more value than players like me. Is that clear enough now? One of the highest milestones was an r1-2 Gem while I''m sitting on overflow of r2 mats if you can't see the problem is because you benefitted from this event.
brother, i'm sure you've played for a long time so you know how the game works.
kabam separates progression into different rooms. when a new rank comes out they create a new room, put the shiniest tastiest bait in there and entice superwhales to get it. me and you are free to try for it but since we're not trillionaire oil tycoons, we can't.
so what do we do? we wait patiently in our current rooms while kabam starts shuffling paragons and TB'ers into it. you might not like it but that's how it's always worked.
as we temporarily share the same space with paragons and TBers, in the next 6-8 months kabam will start giving non-whale valiants better access to r4s (content, objectives, special spring cleaning and july 4 offers) and we'll eventually join the oil sheiks and business owners in the fancy room and finally leave the gross yucky disgusting paragons and TBers to themselves. that's how the game works.
sidenote: if we got more 7* shards and sig stones, it would only accelerate the economy and bring about 8*s even faster and we would complain about that too!
Oh ffs I DONT CARE ABOUT THE R4s, stop telling me I am put in a group to separate me from whales. How the heck do you know wether I am a heavy spender or not to be magically separating me from the whales? Do you want to know why I didn't spend on this event? Because the crystals were terrible. Why were they terrible? Because they were limited to what it was suitable for TBs. Funny you think that more 7* shards and sigs would accelerate 8*s... Its more r4s what would accelerate it not sig levels... You like comparing this event to CM so much, tell me why CM which is about a month apart from Banquet was progression gated and Banquet wasn't. I mean you like comparing them so much...
you're asking why cyber monday had a valiant specific progression gate but not banquet? because r4 mats didn't exist yet. after creating the new chase in december they had to shift the game, downgrade r3s, and also let the earlier guys catch up (or the game is toast).
me and you are stuck in a situation where we can't afford a $50k r4 so we have to wait for a clearance sale (objectives, content, spring cleaning, july 4).
7* shards and sig stones DO accelerate the game. extra shards fast forward the champ chase and sig stones are basically shards since we get 20 sigs from crystal openings.
when we run out of both shards and sigs and start having champs at sig 200, we start demanding rank ups and if that goes too fast kabam might have to slow rank progression which makes us bored or has to speed it up which means getting 8*s faster.
1- I don't know if you and I are in the same situation which is why I DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ON YOUR ACCOUNT UNLIKE YOU. 2- There is a huge difference between getting an R4 at a 50k price, and wanting more chances to dup some champions, increase their sigs. 3- The value of this rewards are not even close to the same between myself with 115 7*s and a TB getting 7*s. 4- Huge difference between getting 30% drop rate on T6CC which I can buy easily from BG store and Glory store, as opposed to TBs who every season cry over matchmaking in BGs, and difficulty and cost of Raids (raids being huge on rewards and Glory)
This event was not designed for Valiants, you want to put the R4 issue? Well what about last year?... Its not now or this event or wether it was better than CM or not. For an active progressed Valiant this event was trash. Was it good for you? Good for you congratulations, glad it worked out; but you and I don't have the same needs or benefit in the same way. The difference is that I don't criticize your position. I criticize the event.
Honestly I’m sure it’s been said before. But the fact that we had to buy the trash crystals to get points for banquet. Was a miss.
Yes I bought a bunch. Hoping to get the good rewards but mostly got the small t6c which I already had lots. The t6c amounts should have been higher. And the drop rates for 7* shards and titan shards should have been higher.
Those would not have skewed anything and at least given some hope for good pulls. But again I will say. Putting the good rewards in the milestones that meant we needed to buy the trash crystals to get there was not fair.
Especially when it was said over and over that these crystals would not be filled with filler.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
Pause. I’m fine with mega whale valiants being ahead, they always are… that’s the normal.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
cash is the lifeblood of the game. banquet and the few big spending events keep the game going and they have to maximize the value they get from the next chase item or the game is at risk.
when something new comes out they charge kidney level prices while putting the 2nd best item in the junk clearance section (r3s).
whales just donated their kidneys, we're not moving up much, and the "scrub tiers" are going wild with new r3s.
there is literally no space for us non-whale valiants to grow.....at the moment. when the banquet dust settles and they get r4s and the paragons and TB'ers get their r3s, we will start chipping away at r4s with valiant-specific objectives, content, and offers (the TB'ers and paragons won't), so it all works out and the divide between us and them will grow as it naturally does.
We all know the drop rates were terrible and Kabam went ahead and changed some of the milestones and gave us a nice holiday gift. It’s not made up for the units spent but that’s what’s happened and we all spent our units and got what we got. Why can’t we all just move on?
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
Pause. I’m fine with mega whale valiants being ahead, they always are… that’s the normal.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
cash is the lifeblood of the game. banquet and the few big spending events keep the game going and they have to maximize the value they get from the next chase item or the game is at risk.
when something new comes out they charge kidney level prices while putting the 2nd best item in the junk clearance section (r3s).
whales just donated their kidneys, we're not moving up much, and the "scrub tiers" are going wild with new r3s.
there is literally no space for us non-whale valiants to grow.....at the moment. when the banquet dust settles and they get r4s and the paragons and TB'ers get their r3s, we will start chipping away at r4s with valiant-specific objectives, content, and offers (the TB'ers and paragons won't), so it all works out and the divide between us and them will grow as it naturally does.
Let me ask you an honest question. If the purpose of this Grand Banquet was to make the gap smaller. Wouldn't it make more sense to give current Valiants 6 or 7 r3s depending on crystals opened, and milestones? Instead of tying you to TBs and giving you 2 pr 3 r3s? That was their argument to allow peoeple to catch up to spenders. The reason I am asking you this question is TB with 2 or 3 Rs catching up to whales with 30+ R3? As opposed to active valiants with 15+ R3s being limited to gerting 18+ instead of 20+?
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
Pause. I’m fine with mega whale valiants being ahead, they always are… that’s the normal.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
cash is the lifeblood of the game. banquet and the few big spending events keep the game going and they have to maximize the value they get from the next chase item or the game is at risk.
when something new comes out they charge kidney level prices while putting the 2nd best item in the junk clearance section (r3s).
whales just donated their kidneys, we're not moving up much, and the "scrub tiers" are going wild with new r3s.
there is literally no space for us non-whale valiants to grow.....at the moment. when the banquet dust settles and they get r4s and the paragons and TB'ers get their r3s, we will start chipping away at r4s with valiant-specific objectives, content, and offers (the TB'ers and paragons won't), so it all works out and the divide between us and them will grow as it naturally does.
Let me ask you an honest question. If the purpose of this Grand Banquet was to make the gap smaller. Wouldn't it make more sense to give current Valiants 6 or 7 r3s depending on crystals opened, and milestones? Instead of tying you to TBs and giving you 2 pr 3 r3s? That was their argument to allow peoeple to catch up to spenders. The reason I am asking you this question is TB with 2 or 3 Rs catching up to whales with 30+ R3? As opposed to active valiants with 15+ R3s being limited to gerting 18+ instead of 20+?
Cause that would honestly break the economy. If they gave valiant way more rank 3s they would lose way more value meaning for the new year kabam would have to start pushing rank 4 much harder to mid tier players rather than just the whales therefore speeding up 7* lifespan. There is a whole economy dedicated team at kabam that accounts for all of this, don’t compare yourself to the 1% of accounts that have 30+ rank 3s, think broader and the bottom-down effects juicing everyone with rank 3s would have. The purpose of this event is always to make money and boost those that spend a ton, even thronebreakers, though you as a valiant are still ahead even if both you and the thronebreaker go +2 on rank 3s
Add a bit of insult? End up telling us to think on the realm event as part of a package of rewards when they told us before realm event rewards were not part of the reward budget.
Those aren’t contradictory statements. There’s two things going on here: how the rewards were designed, and how they should be judged.
In terms of how they were designed, Kabam said the rewards for the realm event itself were not removed from the original reward budget for the banquet, they were added on top. I can’t prove this is true, but I have no reason to doubt it given the structure of the event. However, because the rewards are designed holistically, it would be difficult to prove either way even if you were in the room, so to speak, because what’s being added is less quantifiable and more judgment. Reward value was added (so they say) which means the overall rewards for the banquet were higher than they would have been if there was no realm event.
Completely separate from that, there’s the question of whether to judge the banquet in its totality as being “good” or not. And I think it is appropriate to judge it including the realm event rewards, because ultimately the realm event is an addition to the banquet, even if we set aside the quibble about reward budgets. It should be considered part of the event, and thus pointless to judge separately from the rest.
The developers do not design the SBCs crystals separately from the solo milestones separately from the realm event milestones. They are all intended to work together, no differently than individual fights are designed to work together on a map. Players shouldn’t judge the rewards for the minions separate from the bosses separate from map completion, because they aren’t intended to be done and collected separately.
Getting back to reward budgets. It has been argued elsewhere that because there is a reward budget (which, once upon a time I was accused of essentially hallucinating) then it is impossible that the realm rewards were added onto the banquet. They had to come from “somewhere.” That’s not true, because of how budgets work in general. Budgets aren’t just made up arbitrarily, they are justified relative to the return on that expense. To put it in terms I believe you would relate to, in a business you might have a budget to spend on employee infrastructure. But that doesn’t mean if you hire a new person and buy them a laptop that comes out of the budget for everyone else and now suddenly everyone else has less to work with. Rather, the budget to spend on employees usually grows on the presumption that that employee will justify that additional expense. That’s why they were hired in the first place.
Kabam added Realm Events to the game. Why is a discussion for another day, but the bottom line is they expect to get a return on that investment. Which means the rewards associated with the realm event itself can have a completely separate justification for existing than everything else in the game originally before Realm Events arrived. Those realm rewards are an additional in-game economic cost the devs presumably have decided to bear to get whatever they think they are going to get from Realm Events in the long run.
That’s how there can be a reward budget, and have realm event rewards added on top of an existing event without breaking that budget in theory. The rewards still have to exist within the same reward budgets constraints, but they can exist outside the original budgetary numbers for the game. And I think it is a fair ask to judge the event based on the fact that the devs did in fact add the realm event to it, and thus the event should be judged on its entirety.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
You are an assumption making machine...My rewards got limited because what would be suitable for me is too much for. TB account. It has nothing to do with me and whales getting R4s. Because they are in the same pool I got less 7* crystals and Titan crystals, that translates to awakenings and sig levels. I ended up with an overflow of t5cc and way too much t6b, t3a and t6cc included, which for a TB has a lot more value than players like me. Is that clear enough now? One of the highest milestones was an r1-2 Gem while I''m sitting on overflow of r2 mats if you can't see the problem is because you benefitted from this event.
brother, i'm sure you've played for a long time so you know how the game works.
kabam separates progression into different rooms. when a new rank comes out they create a new room, put the shiniest tastiest bait in there and entice superwhales to get it. me and you are free to try for it but since we're not trillionaire oil tycoons, we can't.
so what do we do? we wait patiently in our current rooms while kabam starts shuffling paragons and TB'ers into it. you might not like it but that's how it's always worked.
as we temporarily share the same space with paragons and TBers, in the next 6-8 months kabam will start giving non-whale valiants better access to r4s (content, objectives, special spring cleaning and july 4 offers) and we'll eventually join the oil sheiks and business owners in the fancy room and finally leave the gross yucky disgusting paragons and TBers to themselves. that's how the game works.
sidenote: if we got more 7* shards and sig stones, it would only accelerate the economy and bring about 8*s even faster and we would complain about that too!
Oh ffs I DONT CARE ABOUT THE R4s, stop telling me I am put in a group to separate me from whales. How the heck do you know wether I am a heavy spender or not to be magically separating me from the whales? Do you want to know why I didn't spend on this event? Because the crystals were terrible. Why were they terrible? Because they were limited to what it was suitable for TBs. Funny you think that more 7* shards and sigs would accelerate 8*s... Its more r4s what would accelerate it not sig levels... You like comparing this event to CM so much, tell me why CM which is about a month apart from Banquet was progression gated and Banquet wasn't. I mean you like comparing them so much...
you're asking why cyber monday had a valiant specific progression gate but not banquet? because r4 mats didn't exist yet. after creating the new chase in december they had to shift the game, downgrade r3s, and also let the earlier guys catch up (or the game is toast).
me and you are stuck in a situation where we can't afford a $50k r4 so we have to wait for a clearance sale (objectives, content, spring cleaning, july 4).
7* shards and sig stones DO accelerate the game. extra shards fast forward the champ chase and sig stones are basically shards since we get 20 sigs from crystal openings.
when we run out of both shards and sigs and start having champs at sig 200, we start demanding rank ups and if that goes too fast kabam might have to slow rank progression which makes us bored or has to speed it up which means getting 8*s faster.
1- I don't know if you and I are in the same situation which is why I DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ON YOUR ACCOUNT UNLIKE YOU. 2- There is a huge difference between getting an R4 at a 50k price, and wanting more chances to dup some champions, increase their sigs. 3- The value of this rewards are not even close to the same between myself with 115 7*s and a TB getting 7*s. 4- Huge difference between getting 30% drop rate on T6CC which I can buy easily from BG store and Glory store, as opposed to TBs who every season cry over matchmaking in BGs, and difficulty and cost of Raids (raids being huge on rewards and Glory)
This event was not designed for Valiants, you want to put the R4 issue? Well what about last year?... Its not now or this event or wether it was better than CM or not. For an active progressed Valiant this event was trash. Was it good for you? Good for you congratulations, glad it worked out; but you and I don't have the same needs or benefit in the same way. The difference is that I don't criticize your position. I criticize the event.
i have 130+ 7s but i'm missing a few key dupes and would have liked a better chance there but the milestones more than made up for it. you keep ignoring the value in the milestones which is why this conversation isn't going anywhere.
the main point of the banquet was to introduce a new rank and by default downgrade the second rank and make it more accessible to everyone else.
excuse me if i'm wrong but i'm assuming you're not a multi-millionaire who could afford new r4s, so given where we are in the game (a brand new rank), valiants like me, you, and the other 99.99% literally don't have the space to grow, but we will in the next 6-8 months (and paragons and TB'ers won't enjoy that same growth).
some group will always complain that they didn't get enough. if it's not us, in 6 months it will be the guy below us. it's always been like that. there is literally nothing new kabam could have added to comfort non-whale valiants, so all we can do it wait. don't worry, those "scrub" TB'ers who are partying it up right now will feel the pain later too.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
Pause. I’m fine with mega whale valiants being ahead, they always are… that’s the normal.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
cash is the lifeblood of the game. banquet and the few big spending events keep the game going and they have to maximize the value they get from the next chase item or the game is at risk.
when something new comes out they charge kidney level prices while putting the 2nd best item in the junk clearance section (r3s).
whales just donated their kidneys, we're not moving up much, and the "scrub tiers" are going wild with new r3s.
there is literally no space for us non-whale valiants to grow.....at the moment. when the banquet dust settles and they get r4s and the paragons and TB'ers get their r3s, we will start chipping away at r4s with valiant-specific objectives, content, and offers (the TB'ers and paragons won't), so it all works out and the divide between us and them will grow as it naturally does.
Let me ask you an honest question. If the purpose of this Grand Banquet was to make the gap smaller. Wouldn't it make more sense to give current Valiants 6 or 7 r3s depending on crystals opened, and milestones? Instead of tying you to TBs and giving you 2 pr 3 r3s? That was their argument to allow peoeple to catch up to spenders. The reason I am asking you this question is TB with 2 or 3 Rs catching up to whales with 30+ R3? As opposed to active valiants with 15+ R3s being limited to gerting 18+ instead of 20+?
Cause that would honestly break the economy. If they gave valiant way more rank 3s they would lose way more value meaning for the new year kabam would have to start pushing rank 4 much harder to mid tier players rather than just the whales therefore speeding up 7* lifespan. There is a whole economy dedicated team at kabam that accounts for all of this, don’t compare yourself to the 1% of accounts that have 30+ rank 3s, think broader and the bottom-down effects juicing everyone with rank 3s would have. The purpose of this event is always to make money and boost those that spend a ton, even thronebreakers, though you as a valiant are still ahead even if both you and the thronebreaker go +2 on rank 3s
Rewarding TBs with 2-3 R3s at the expense of thousands of units is the most idiotic thing they have ever done in this game.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
You are an assumption making machine...My rewards got limited because what would be suitable for me is too much for. TB account. It has nothing to do with me and whales getting R4s. Because they are in the same pool I got less 7* crystals and Titan crystals, that translates to awakenings and sig levels. I ended up with an overflow of t5cc and way too much t6b, t3a and t6cc included, which for a TB has a lot more value than players like me. Is that clear enough now? One of the highest milestones was an r1-2 Gem while I''m sitting on overflow of r2 mats if you can't see the problem is because you benefitted from this event.
brother, i'm sure you've played for a long time so you know how the game works.
kabam separates progression into different rooms. when a new rank comes out they create a new room, put the shiniest tastiest bait in there and entice superwhales to get it. me and you are free to try for it but since we're not trillionaire oil tycoons, we can't.
so what do we do? we wait patiently in our current rooms while kabam starts shuffling paragons and TB'ers into it. you might not like it but that's how it's always worked.
as we temporarily share the same space with paragons and TBers, in the next 6-8 months kabam will start giving non-whale valiants better access to r4s (content, objectives, special spring cleaning and july 4 offers) and we'll eventually join the oil sheiks and business owners in the fancy room and finally leave the gross yucky disgusting paragons and TBers to themselves. that's how the game works.
sidenote: if we got more 7* shards and sig stones, it would only accelerate the economy and bring about 8*s even faster and we would complain about that too!
Oh ffs I DONT CARE ABOUT THE R4s, stop telling me I am put in a group to separate me from whales. How the heck do you know wether I am a heavy spender or not to be magically separating me from the whales? Do you want to know why I didn't spend on this event? Because the crystals were terrible. Why were they terrible? Because they were limited to what it was suitable for TBs. Funny you think that more 7* shards and sigs would accelerate 8*s... Its more r4s what would accelerate it not sig levels... You like comparing this event to CM so much, tell me why CM which is about a month apart from Banquet was progression gated and Banquet wasn't. I mean you like comparing them so much...
you're asking why cyber monday had a valiant specific progression gate but not banquet? because r4 mats didn't exist yet. after creating the new chase in december they had to shift the game, downgrade r3s, and also let the earlier guys catch up (or the game is toast).
me and you are stuck in a situation where we can't afford a $50k r4 so we have to wait for a clearance sale (objectives, content, spring cleaning, july 4).
7* shards and sig stones DO accelerate the game. extra shards fast forward the champ chase and sig stones are basically shards since we get 20 sigs from crystal openings.
when we run out of both shards and sigs and start having champs at sig 200, we start demanding rank ups and if that goes too fast kabam might have to slow rank progression which makes us bored or has to speed it up which means getting 8*s faster.
1- I don't know if you and I are in the same situation which is why I DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ON YOUR ACCOUNT UNLIKE YOU. 2- There is a huge difference between getting an R4 at a 50k price, and wanting more chances to dup some champions, increase their sigs. 3- The value of this rewards are not even close to the same between myself with 115 7*s and a TB getting 7*s. 4- Huge difference between getting 30% drop rate on T6CC which I can buy easily from BG store and Glory store, as opposed to TBs who every season cry over matchmaking in BGs, and difficulty and cost of Raids (raids being huge on rewards and Glory)
This event was not designed for Valiants, you want to put the R4 issue? Well what about last year?... Its not now or this event or wether it was better than CM or not. For an active progressed Valiant this event was trash. Was it good for you? Good for you congratulations, glad it worked out; but you and I don't have the same needs or benefit in the same way. The difference is that I don't criticize your position. I criticize the event.
i have 130+ 7s but i'm missing a few key dupes and would have liked a better chance there but the milestones more than made up for it. you keep ignoring the value in the milestones which is why this conversation isn't going anywhere.
the main point of the banquet was to introduce a new rank and by default downgrade the second rank and make it more accessible to everyone else.
excuse me if i'm wrong but i'm assuming you're not a multi-millionaire who could afford new r4s, so given where we are in the game (a brand new rank), valiants like me, you, and the other 99.99% literally don't have the space to grow, but we will in the next 6-8 months (and paragons and TB'ers won't enjoy that same growth).
some group will always complain that they didn't get enough. if it's not us, in 6 months it will be the guy below us. it's always been like that. there is literally nothing new kabam could have added to comfort non-whale valiants, so all we can do it wait. don't worry, those "scrub" TB'ers who are partying it up right now will feel the pain later too.
Its not about getting enough or getting more, its about getting adequate rewards based on progression. The crystals were loaded of stuff that I can easily get from BG store and AQ store. The contents and some of the Milestones were designed to be good for TB and completely inadequate to a Valiant.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
Pause. I’m fine with mega whale valiants being ahead, they always are… that’s the normal.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
cash is the lifeblood of the game. banquet and the few big spending events keep the game going and they have to maximize the value they get from the next chase item or the game is at risk.
when something new comes out they charge kidney level prices while putting the 2nd best item in the junk clearance section (r3s).
whales just donated their kidneys, we're not moving up much, and the "scrub tiers" are going wild with new r3s.
there is literally no space for us non-whale valiants to grow.....at the moment. when the banquet dust settles and they get r4s and the paragons and TB'ers get their r3s, we will start chipping away at r4s with valiant-specific objectives, content, and offers (the TB'ers and paragons won't), so it all works out and the divide between us and them will grow as it naturally does.
Let me ask you an honest question. If the purpose of this Grand Banquet was to make the gap smaller. Wouldn't it make more sense to give current Valiants 6 or 7 r3s depending on crystals opened, and milestones? Instead of tying you to TBs and giving you 2 pr 3 r3s? That was their argument to allow peoeple to catch up to spenders. The reason I am asking you this question is TB with 2 or 3 Rs catching up to whales with 30+ R3? As opposed to active valiants with 15+ R3s being limited to gerting 18+ instead of 20+?
Cause that would honestly break the economy. If they gave valiant way more rank 3s they would lose way more value meaning for the new year kabam would have to start pushing rank 4 much harder to mid tier players rather than just the whales therefore speeding up 7* lifespan. There is a whole economy dedicated team at kabam that accounts for all of this, don’t compare yourself to the 1% of accounts that have 30+ rank 3s, think broader and the bottom-down effects juicing everyone with rank 3s would have. The purpose of this event is always to make money and boost those that spend a ton, even thronebreakers, though you as a valiant are still ahead even if both you and the thronebreaker go +2 on rank 3s
Rewarding TBs with 2-3 R3s at the expense of thousands of units is the most idiotic thing they have ever done in this game.
How so? You’re at 12-15, they barely have 2-3 you are still leagues ahead. Should they start advocating for mass rank 3s to catch up to you cause they started playing later?
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
Pause. I’m fine with mega whale valiants being ahead, they always are… that’s the normal.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
cash is the lifeblood of the game. banquet and the few big spending events keep the game going and they have to maximize the value they get from the next chase item or the game is at risk.
when something new comes out they charge kidney level prices while putting the 2nd best item in the junk clearance section (r3s).
whales just donated their kidneys, we're not moving up much, and the "scrub tiers" are going wild with new r3s.
there is literally no space for us non-whale valiants to grow.....at the moment. when the banquet dust settles and they get r4s and the paragons and TB'ers get their r3s, we will start chipping away at r4s with valiant-specific objectives, content, and offers (the TB'ers and paragons won't), so it all works out and the divide between us and them will grow as it naturally does.
Let me ask you an honest question. If the purpose of this Grand Banquet was to make the gap smaller. Wouldn't it make more sense to give current Valiants 6 or 7 r3s depending on crystals opened, and milestones? Instead of tying you to TBs and giving you 2 pr 3 r3s? That was their argument to allow peoeple to catch up to spenders. The reason I am asking you this question is TB with 2 or 3 Rs catching up to whales with 30+ R3? As opposed to active valiants with 15+ R3s being limited to gerting 18+ instead of 20+?
Cause that would honestly break the economy. If they gave valiant way more rank 3s they would lose way more value meaning for the new year kabam would have to start pushing rank 4 much harder to mid tier players rather than just the whales therefore speeding up 7* lifespan. There is a whole economy dedicated team at kabam that accounts for all of this, don’t compare yourself to the 1% of accounts that have 30+ rank 3s, think broader and the bottom-down effects juicing everyone with rank 3s would have. The purpose of this event is always to make money and boost those that spend a ton, even thronebreakers, though you as a valiant are still ahead even if both you and the thronebreaker go +2 on rank 3s
Rewarding TBs with 2-3 R3s at the expense of thousands of units is the most idiotic thing they have ever done in this game.
How so? You’re at 12-15, they barely have 2-3 you are still leagues ahead. Should they start advocating for mass rank 3s to catch up to you cause they started playing later?
Because they spent a year farming units instead of buying a few revives and getting past act 6?...
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
Pause. I’m fine with mega whale valiants being ahead, they always are… that’s the normal.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
cash is the lifeblood of the game. banquet and the few big spending events keep the game going and they have to maximize the value they get from the next chase item or the game is at risk.
when something new comes out they charge kidney level prices while putting the 2nd best item in the junk clearance section (r3s).
whales just donated their kidneys, we're not moving up much, and the "scrub tiers" are going wild with new r3s.
there is literally no space for us non-whale valiants to grow.....at the moment. when the banquet dust settles and they get r4s and the paragons and TB'ers get their r3s, we will start chipping away at r4s with valiant-specific objectives, content, and offers (the TB'ers and paragons won't), so it all works out and the divide between us and them will grow as it naturally does.
Let me ask you an honest question. If the purpose of this Grand Banquet was to make the gap smaller. Wouldn't it make more sense to give current Valiants 6 or 7 r3s depending on crystals opened, and milestones? Instead of tying you to TBs and giving you 2 pr 3 r3s? That was their argument to allow peoeple to catch up to spenders. The reason I am asking you this question is TB with 2 or 3 Rs catching up to whales with 30+ R3? As opposed to active valiants with 15+ R3s being limited to gerting 18+ instead of 20+?
Cause that would honestly break the economy. If they gave valiant way more rank 3s they would lose way more value meaning for the new year kabam would have to start pushing rank 4 much harder to mid tier players rather than just the whales therefore speeding up 7* lifespan. There is a whole economy dedicated team at kabam that accounts for all of this, don’t compare yourself to the 1% of accounts that have 30+ rank 3s, think broader and the bottom-down effects juicing everyone with rank 3s would have. The purpose of this event is always to make money and boost those that spend a ton, even thronebreakers, though you as a valiant are still ahead even if both you and the thronebreaker go +2 on rank 3s
Rewarding TBs with 2-3 R3s at the expense of thousands of units is the most idiotic thing they have ever done in this game.
How so? You’re at 12-15, they barely have 2-3 you are still leagues ahead. Should they start advocating for mass rank 3s to catch up to you cause they started playing later?
Because they spent a year farming units instead of buying a few revives and getting past act 6?...
But you yourself can get those rank 3s too, so you’ll still be ahead of them they are not catching up even if they do act 6. Should they start pitchforking for more rank 3s for being a later valiant at this point catching up to you in turn? You gotta remove the notion that rank 3s can only be earned through content at this point in the game
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
Pause. I’m fine with mega whale valiants being ahead, they always are… that’s the normal.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
cash is the lifeblood of the game. banquet and the few big spending events keep the game going and they have to maximize the value they get from the next chase item or the game is at risk.
when something new comes out they charge kidney level prices while putting the 2nd best item in the junk clearance section (r3s).
whales just donated their kidneys, we're not moving up much, and the "scrub tiers" are going wild with new r3s.
there is literally no space for us non-whale valiants to grow.....at the moment. when the banquet dust settles and they get r4s and the paragons and TB'ers get their r3s, we will start chipping away at r4s with valiant-specific objectives, content, and offers (the TB'ers and paragons won't), so it all works out and the divide between us and them will grow as it naturally does.
Let me ask you an honest question. If the purpose of this Grand Banquet was to make the gap smaller. Wouldn't it make more sense to give current Valiants 6 or 7 r3s depending on crystals opened, and milestones? Instead of tying you to TBs and giving you 2 pr 3 r3s? That was their argument to allow peoeple to catch up to spenders. The reason I am asking you this question is TB with 2 or 3 Rs catching up to whales with 30+ R3? As opposed to active valiants with 15+ R3s being limited to gerting 18+ instead of 20+?
Cause that would honestly break the economy. If they gave valiant way more rank 3s they would lose way more value meaning for the new year kabam would have to start pushing rank 4 much harder to mid tier players rather than just the whales therefore speeding up 7* lifespan. There is a whole economy dedicated team at kabam that accounts for all of this, don’t compare yourself to the 1% of accounts that have 30+ rank 3s, think broader and the bottom-down effects juicing everyone with rank 3s would have. The purpose of this event is always to make money and boost those that spend a ton, even thronebreakers, though you as a valiant are still ahead even if both you and the thronebreaker go +2 on rank 3s
Rewarding TBs with 2-3 R3s at the expense of thousands of units is the most idiotic thing they have ever done in this game.
How so? You’re at 12-15, they barely have 2-3 you are still leagues ahead. Should they start advocating for mass rank 3s to catch up to you cause they started playing later?
Because they spent a year farming units instead of buying a few revives and getting past act 6?...
But you yourself can get those rank 3s too, so you’ll still be ahead of them they are not catching up even if they do act 6. Should they start pitchforking for more rank 3s for being a later valiant at this point? You gotta remove the notion that rank 3s can only be earned through content at this point in the game
I am limited to their max rewards because I am placed in the same reward pool. That is the whole point of my discontent. They shouldn't pitchfork for anything its their own damn fault they are in the position they are in. How about spend 2k units in revives if even needed beat act 6 and get their own progression instead of taking a constant piggy back ride and be rewarded for it? We are talking about 2k units if needed.. 7 SBC crystals.. beat the GM.. move on; but no lets put them in the same reward pool as Valiants and limit the reward Valiant could get....
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
You are an assumption making machine...My rewards got limited because what would be suitable for me is too much for. TB account. It has nothing to do with me and whales getting R4s. Because they are in the same pool I got less 7* crystals and Titan crystals, that translates to awakenings and sig levels. I ended up with an overflow of t5cc and way too much t6b, t3a and t6cc included, which for a TB has a lot more value than players like me. Is that clear enough now? One of the highest milestones was an r1-2 Gem while I''m sitting on overflow of r2 mats if you can't see the problem is because you benefitted from this event.
brother, i'm sure you've played for a long time so you know how the game works.
kabam separates progression into different rooms. when a new rank comes out they create a new room, put the shiniest tastiest bait in there and entice superwhales to get it. me and you are free to try for it but since we're not trillionaire oil tycoons, we can't.
so what do we do? we wait patiently in our current rooms while kabam starts shuffling paragons and TB'ers into it. you might not like it but that's how it's always worked.
as we temporarily share the same space with paragons and TBers, in the next 6-8 months kabam will start giving non-whale valiants better access to r4s (content, objectives, special spring cleaning and july 4 offers) and we'll eventually join the oil sheiks and business owners in the fancy room and finally leave the gross yucky disgusting paragons and TBers to themselves. that's how the game works.
sidenote: if we got more 7* shards and sig stones, it would only accelerate the economy and bring about 8*s even faster and we would complain about that too!
Oh ffs I DONT CARE ABOUT THE R4s, stop telling me I am put in a group to separate me from whales. How the heck do you know wether I am a heavy spender or not to be magically separating me from the whales? Do you want to know why I didn't spend on this event? Because the crystals were terrible. Why were they terrible? Because they were limited to what it was suitable for TBs. Funny you think that more 7* shards and sigs would accelerate 8*s... Its more r4s what would accelerate it not sig levels... You like comparing this event to CM so much, tell me why CM which is about a month apart from Banquet was progression gated and Banquet wasn't. I mean you like comparing them so much...
you're asking why cyber monday had a valiant specific progression gate but not banquet? because r4 mats didn't exist yet. after creating the new chase in december they had to shift the game, downgrade r3s, and also let the earlier guys catch up (or the game is toast).
me and you are stuck in a situation where we can't afford a $50k r4 so we have to wait for a clearance sale (objectives, content, spring cleaning, july 4).
7* shards and sig stones DO accelerate the game. extra shards fast forward the champ chase and sig stones are basically shards since we get 20 sigs from crystal openings.
when we run out of both shards and sigs and start having champs at sig 200, we start demanding rank ups and if that goes too fast kabam might have to slow rank progression which makes us bored or has to speed it up which means getting 8*s faster.
1- I don't know if you and I are in the same situation which is why I DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ON YOUR ACCOUNT UNLIKE YOU. 2- There is a huge difference between getting an R4 at a 50k price, and wanting more chances to dup some champions, increase their sigs. 3- The value of this rewards are not even close to the same between myself with 115 7*s and a TB getting 7*s. 4- Huge difference between getting 30% drop rate on T6CC which I can buy easily from BG store and Glory store, as opposed to TBs who every season cry over matchmaking in BGs, and difficulty and cost of Raids (raids being huge on rewards and Glory)
This event was not designed for Valiants, you want to put the R4 issue? Well what about last year?... Its not now or this event or wether it was better than CM or not. For an active progressed Valiant this event was trash. Was it good for you? Good for you congratulations, glad it worked out; but you and I don't have the same needs or benefit in the same way. The difference is that I don't criticize your position. I criticize the event.
i have 130+ 7s but i'm missing a few key dupes and would have liked a better chance there but the milestones more than made up for it. you keep ignoring the value in the milestones which is why this conversation isn't going anywhere.
the main point of the banquet was to introduce a new rank and by default downgrade the second rank and make it more accessible to everyone else.
excuse me if i'm wrong but i'm assuming you're not a multi-millionaire who could afford new r4s, so given where we are in the game (a brand new rank), valiants like me, you, and the other 99.99% literally don't have the space to grow, but we will in the next 6-8 months (and paragons and TB'ers won't enjoy that same growth).
some group will always complain that they didn't get enough. if it's not us, in 6 months it will be the guy below us. it's always been like that. there is literally nothing new kabam could have added to comfort non-whale valiants, so all we can do it wait. don't worry, those "scrub" TB'ers who are partying it up right now will feel the pain later too.
Its not about getting enough or getting more, its about getting adequate rewards based on progression. The crystals were loaded of stuff that I can easily get from BG store and AQ store. The contents and some of the Milestones were designed to be good for TB and completely inadequate to a Valiant.
you say it's not about getting more, but then you say it wasn't adequate.
name something that they could have added to the SBCs that would have made it adequate without accelerating TBer progression too much. acceleration is a domino effect, if they give too much to the lower tiers they have to release the next ranks even faster. you have to look at it holistically.
yes...we didn't move much, and very few superwhales did, and a lot of TBer's did too, but that will change for us soon. it's gonna be ok.
Also the fact the livestream was prerecorded just goes to show you didn’t want to face the community backlash.
I'm curious to know what difference it would make being live or pre-recorded. They don't have to answer things said in chat. It's not a Q & A. They've already "faced" the backlash. They've told you that the problem wasn't the crystals but more so that they overvalued the keys. They've made several posts, answered on discord etc.. what more do you want them to answer?
I want to know in what way crashed measures this as a success. I have not seen this much backlash in a long time. Like 99% of the community in agreement that it was horrible then the few like you and gw with a brown nose being the 1% minority always defending them. I would love to see crashed’s analytics that he shows in any way this event was a success. Words are words. Proof is in the evidence. Now go put your head back where it belongs.
He didn't say it was resounding success but it's more successful than how you're thinking of it.
like I said words are words. I would love to see the evidence to support it.
Weren't you pushing a boycott? What evidence would suffice for someone with that position?
The issue is he's talking about their goals from a data perspective, which is fair. That's what they base everything on. If their objectives were met through the data, then that shows the Event as a success. Unfortunately, the disparity is between the data and the feedback and I'm afraid no matter how much noise we make, if people put the numbers up, then that's going to reflect. Which is why there's nothing more they can add. They could say, "We see you're not happy.". That wouldn't help anything. It would just enflame the situation. None of the suggested solutions were feasible. Redoing the Crystal code...refunding people their Units....giving people twice the Crystals....all of that was unreasonable. Sorry to be the one to say it, but it was. So there's nothing much else they can say until they look at the results. This wasn't the type of Event that could be adjusted on the spot like that. They added some extras through the Milestones. That's the best we were going to get.
What does the push for a boycott have to do with anything? As far as analytics just looking at the in game leaderboard for the realm you can see the quick steep drops in scores. That alone shows how much of a failure it was overall. In the past the scores were close to each other and had less evident drop offs so close together. Go have a look in game.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
You are an assumption making machine...My rewards got limited because what would be suitable for me is too much for. TB account. It has nothing to do with me and whales getting R4s. Because they are in the same pool I got less 7* crystals and Titan crystals, that translates to awakenings and sig levels. I ended up with an overflow of t5cc and way too much t6b, t3a and t6cc included, which for a TB has a lot more value than players like me. Is that clear enough now? One of the highest milestones was an r1-2 Gem while I''m sitting on overflow of r2 mats if you can't see the problem is because you benefitted from this event.
brother, i'm sure you've played for a long time so you know how the game works.
kabam separates progression into different rooms. when a new rank comes out they create a new room, put the shiniest tastiest bait in there and entice superwhales to get it. me and you are free to try for it but since we're not trillionaire oil tycoons, we can't.
so what do we do? we wait patiently in our current rooms while kabam starts shuffling paragons and TB'ers into it. you might not like it but that's how it's always worked.
as we temporarily share the same space with paragons and TBers, in the next 6-8 months kabam will start giving non-whale valiants better access to r4s (content, objectives, special spring cleaning and july 4 offers) and we'll eventually join the oil sheiks and business owners in the fancy room and finally leave the gross yucky disgusting paragons and TBers to themselves. that's how the game works.
sidenote: if we got more 7* shards and sig stones, it would only accelerate the economy and bring about 8*s even faster and we would complain about that too!
Oh ffs I DONT CARE ABOUT THE R4s, stop telling me I am put in a group to separate me from whales. How the heck do you know wether I am a heavy spender or not to be magically separating me from the whales? Do you want to know why I didn't spend on this event? Because the crystals were terrible. Why were they terrible? Because they were limited to what it was suitable for TBs. Funny you think that more 7* shards and sigs would accelerate 8*s... Its more r4s what would accelerate it not sig levels... You like comparing this event to CM so much, tell me why CM which is about a month apart from Banquet was progression gated and Banquet wasn't. I mean you like comparing them so much...
you're asking why cyber monday had a valiant specific progression gate but not banquet? because r4 mats didn't exist yet. after creating the new chase in december they had to shift the game, downgrade r3s, and also let the earlier guys catch up (or the game is toast).
me and you are stuck in a situation where we can't afford a $50k r4 so we have to wait for a clearance sale (objectives, content, spring cleaning, july 4).
7* shards and sig stones DO accelerate the game. extra shards fast forward the champ chase and sig stones are basically shards since we get 20 sigs from crystal openings.
when we run out of both shards and sigs and start having champs at sig 200, we start demanding rank ups and if that goes too fast kabam might have to slow rank progression which makes us bored or has to speed it up which means getting 8*s faster.
1- I don't know if you and I are in the same situation which is why I DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ON YOUR ACCOUNT UNLIKE YOU. 2- There is a huge difference between getting an R4 at a 50k price, and wanting more chances to dup some champions, increase their sigs. 3- The value of this rewards are not even close to the same between myself with 115 7*s and a TB getting 7*s. 4- Huge difference between getting 30% drop rate on T6CC which I can buy easily from BG store and Glory store, as opposed to TBs who every season cry over matchmaking in BGs, and difficulty and cost of Raids (raids being huge on rewards and Glory)
This event was not designed for Valiants, you want to put the R4 issue? Well what about last year?... Its not now or this event or wether it was better than CM or not. For an active progressed Valiant this event was trash. Was it good for you? Good for you congratulations, glad it worked out; but you and I don't have the same needs or benefit in the same way. The difference is that I don't criticize your position. I criticize the event.
i have 130+ 7s but i'm missing a few key dupes and would have liked a better chance there but the milestones more than made up for it. you keep ignoring the value in the milestones which is why this conversation isn't going anywhere.
the main point of the banquet was to introduce a new rank and by default downgrade the second rank and make it more accessible to everyone else.
excuse me if i'm wrong but i'm assuming you're not a multi-millionaire who could afford new r4s, so given where we are in the game (a brand new rank), valiants like me, you, and the other 99.99% literally don't have the space to grow, but we will in the next 6-8 months (and paragons and TB'ers won't enjoy that same growth).
some group will always complain that they didn't get enough. if it's not us, in 6 months it will be the guy below us. it's always been like that. there is literally nothing new kabam could have added to comfort non-whale valiants, so all we can do it wait. don't worry, those "scrub" TB'ers who are partying it up right now will feel the pain later too.
Its not about getting enough or getting more, its about getting adequate rewards based on progression. The crystals were loaded of stuff that I can easily get from BG store and AQ store. The contents and some of the Milestones were designed to be good for TB and completely inadequate to a Valiant.
you say it's not about getting more, but then you say it wasn't adequate.
name something that they could have added to the SBCs that would have made it adequate without accelerating TBer progression too much. acceleration is a domino effect, if they give too much to the lower tiers they have to release the next ranks even faster. you have to look at it holistically.
yes...we didn't move much, and very few superwhales did, and a lot of TBer's did too, but that will change for us soon. it's gonna be ok.
A better rate on 7* shards would have been adequate for Valiants and completely inadequate for TBs. More r3 mats would have been suitable for Valiants and completely insane for TBs. Less T6B and T3a would make more sense for Valiants. And I won't even talk about the high insane rate of T6CC which was obviously targeted for Paragons.
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
Pause. I’m fine with mega whale valiants being ahead, they always are… that’s the normal.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
cash is the lifeblood of the game. banquet and the few big spending events keep the game going and they have to maximize the value they get from the next chase item or the game is at risk.
when something new comes out they charge kidney level prices while putting the 2nd best item in the junk clearance section (r3s).
whales just donated their kidneys, we're not moving up much, and the "scrub tiers" are going wild with new r3s.
there is literally no space for us non-whale valiants to grow.....at the moment. when the banquet dust settles and they get r4s and the paragons and TB'ers get their r3s, we will start chipping away at r4s with valiant-specific objectives, content, and offers (the TB'ers and paragons won't), so it all works out and the divide between us and them will grow as it naturally does.
Let me ask you an honest question. If the purpose of this Grand Banquet was to make the gap smaller. Wouldn't it make more sense to give current Valiants 6 or 7 r3s depending on crystals opened, and milestones? Instead of tying you to TBs and giving you 2 pr 3 r3s? That was their argument to allow peoeple to catch up to spenders. The reason I am asking you this question is TB with 2 or 3 Rs catching up to whales with 30+ R3? As opposed to active valiants with 15+ R3s being limited to gerting 18+ instead of 20+?
Cause that would honestly break the economy. If they gave valiant way more rank 3s they would lose way more value meaning for the new year kabam would have to start pushing rank 4 much harder to mid tier players rather than just the whales therefore speeding up 7* lifespan. There is a whole economy dedicated team at kabam that accounts for all of this, don’t compare yourself to the 1% of accounts that have 30+ rank 3s, think broader and the bottom-down effects juicing everyone with rank 3s would have. The purpose of this event is always to make money and boost those that spend a ton, even thronebreakers, though you as a valiant are still ahead even if both you and the thronebreaker go +2 on rank 3s
Rewarding TBs with 2-3 R3s at the expense of thousands of units is the most idiotic thing they have ever done in this game.
this is exactly what that is senseless to me , why are yall giving tb a chance to get something which is a requirement to jump 2 progression level ahead , last time they screwed over valiants and told them that their focus was on necro , thats okay . what reason do they have this time for again screwing valiants that too on the 10th anniversary.
my main goal of opening this thread was that if you have to look at this event in singularity , its not absolute trash and only negative points are horrendous drop rates and unit inflation. but there is more to it - 1. we were told they would look forward to do better than last time 2. the actual less value of tickets which were out for months and people spent their cash on was not conveyed 3. we were not notified about rise in amount of units required for good rewards 4. realm event was supposed to be add on but they are now saying look at it holistically 5. they completely went silent and didnt communicate properly and from their outlook it was success but never took into account the actual sentiment of the player base 6. they tried to compensate only by asking us to spend more( 3 7 stars which were added in realm event) 7. they had seemingly no intention of addressing issue and went on holidays whle ruining the most anticipated event ever as it was banquet event of the 10th anniversary
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
You are an assumption making machine...My rewards got limited because what would be suitable for me is too much for. TB account. It has nothing to do with me and whales getting R4s. Because they are in the same pool I got less 7* crystals and Titan crystals, that translates to awakenings and sig levels. I ended up with an overflow of t5cc and way too much t6b, t3a and t6cc included, which for a TB has a lot more value than players like me. Is that clear enough now? One of the highest milestones was an r1-2 Gem while I''m sitting on overflow of r2 mats if you can't see the problem is because you benefitted from this event.
brother, i'm sure you've played for a long time so you know how the game works.
kabam separates progression into different rooms. when a new rank comes out they create a new room, put the shiniest tastiest bait in there and entice superwhales to get it. me and you are free to try for it but since we're not trillionaire oil tycoons, we can't.
so what do we do? we wait patiently in our current rooms while kabam starts shuffling paragons and TB'ers into it. you might not like it but that's how it's always worked.
as we temporarily share the same space with paragons and TBers, in the next 6-8 months kabam will start giving non-whale valiants better access to r4s (content, objectives, special spring cleaning and july 4 offers) and we'll eventually join the oil sheiks and business owners in the fancy room and finally leave the gross yucky disgusting paragons and TBers to themselves. that's how the game works.
sidenote: if we got more 7* shards and sig stones, it would only accelerate the economy and bring about 8*s even faster and we would complain about that too!
Oh ffs I DONT CARE ABOUT THE R4s, stop telling me I am put in a group to separate me from whales. How the heck do you know wether I am a heavy spender or not to be magically separating me from the whales? Do you want to know why I didn't spend on this event? Because the crystals were terrible. Why were they terrible? Because they were limited to what it was suitable for TBs. Funny you think that more 7* shards and sigs would accelerate 8*s... Its more r4s what would accelerate it not sig levels... You like comparing this event to CM so much, tell me why CM which is about a month apart from Banquet was progression gated and Banquet wasn't. I mean you like comparing them so much...
you're asking why cyber monday had a valiant specific progression gate but not banquet? because r4 mats didn't exist yet. after creating the new chase in december they had to shift the game, downgrade r3s, and also let the earlier guys catch up (or the game is toast).
me and you are stuck in a situation where we can't afford a $50k r4 so we have to wait for a clearance sale (objectives, content, spring cleaning, july 4).
7* shards and sig stones DO accelerate the game. extra shards fast forward the champ chase and sig stones are basically shards since we get 20 sigs from crystal openings.
when we run out of both shards and sigs and start having champs at sig 200, we start demanding rank ups and if that goes too fast kabam might have to slow rank progression which makes us bored or has to speed it up which means getting 8*s faster.
1- I don't know if you and I are in the same situation which is why I DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ON YOUR ACCOUNT UNLIKE YOU. 2- There is a huge difference between getting an R4 at a 50k price, and wanting more chances to dup some champions, increase their sigs. 3- The value of this rewards are not even close to the same between myself with 115 7*s and a TB getting 7*s. 4- Huge difference between getting 30% drop rate on T6CC which I can buy easily from BG store and Glory store, as opposed to TBs who every season cry over matchmaking in BGs, and difficulty and cost of Raids (raids being huge on rewards and Glory)
This event was not designed for Valiants, you want to put the R4 issue? Well what about last year?... Its not now or this event or wether it was better than CM or not. For an active progressed Valiant this event was trash. Was it good for you? Good for you congratulations, glad it worked out; but you and I don't have the same needs or benefit in the same way. The difference is that I don't criticize your position. I criticize the event.
i have 130+ 7s but i'm missing a few key dupes and would have liked a better chance there but the milestones more than made up for it. you keep ignoring the value in the milestones which is why this conversation isn't going anywhere.
the main point of the banquet was to introduce a new rank and by default downgrade the second rank and make it more accessible to everyone else.
excuse me if i'm wrong but i'm assuming you're not a multi-millionaire who could afford new r4s, so given where we are in the game (a brand new rank), valiants like me, you, and the other 99.99% literally don't have the space to grow, but we will in the next 6-8 months (and paragons and TB'ers won't enjoy that same growth).
some group will always complain that they didn't get enough. if it's not us, in 6 months it will be the guy below us. it's always been like that. there is literally nothing new kabam could have added to comfort non-whale valiants, so all we can do it wait. don't worry, those "scrub" TB'ers who are partying it up right now will feel the pain later too.
Its not about getting enough or getting more, its about getting adequate rewards based on progression. The crystals were loaded of stuff that I can easily get from BG store and AQ store. The contents and some of the Milestones were designed to be good for TB and completely inadequate to a Valiant.
you say it's not about getting more, but then you say it wasn't adequate.
name something that they could have added to the SBCs that would have made it adequate without accelerating TBer progression too much. acceleration is a domino effect, if they give too much to the lower tiers they have to release the next ranks even faster. you have to look at it holistically.
yes...we didn't move much, and very few superwhales did, and a lot of TBer's did too, but that will change for us soon. it's gonna be ok.
A better rate on 7* shards would have been adequate for Valiants and completely inadequate for TBs. More r3 mats would have been suitable for Valiants and completely insane for TBs. Less T6B and T3a would make more sense for Valiants. And I won't even talk about the high insane rate of T6CC which was obviously targeted for Paragons.
they gave us a good amount of 7* shards, it was just mostly in the milestones...
@BringPopcorn you have a 21k unit budget. look at this list and tell me exactly what you would get in the exact quantities and we will compare it to the banquet. keep in mind you have to a spend a minimum amount before unlocking the next tier...
I hope you guys analyse thoroughly not just the data from the event, but the huge backlash, it's been 8 years since i'm playing this game and i have never seen a banquet event being so criticized
We have pretty good analytics tools for the forums and Discord now, so yes that's part of what I'm waiting to see. I have some suspicions about what is going on but I don't know for sure until I can see the report.
Analytic tool for discord?... Last time I checked discord was basically an annex of global chat with the only difference being live moderators to silence or ban inappropriate behavior. I wonder what kind of results this tool will show about the 1200+ middle fingers given to the announcement...
"hey f u kabam but also here's my money" tells me the community's moans are mostly empty gestures, as they usually are.
they balanced the rewards between milestones and SBCs well enough that it didn't affect the economy and gave us the same good rewards overall. if they had done what we wanted and buffed SBCs we would be crying about the spending gap and why we're getting 8*s so fast.
Yeah cause a TB with now 2 or 3 r3s closes the gap to a whale with now 35+ r3s Sounds like a great idea. Didn't affect the economy? You have people that didn't finish act 6 with similar or same rewards as people who explored Necropolis how did that not affect the economy?...
we've got a brand new rank. this means:
-the whales pay a fortune to have first access -r3s lose value -kabam bumps up paragons and thronbreakers with more r3s -the rest of us non-whale valiants will be second in line for rank 4s (content, etc..)
we have a choice between spending a fortune for one or waiting, there's no other option. do you want kabam to give us scrubs cheap r4s??
Did I say that?... I want to be rewarded accordingly.... I want my effort to actually have some value as opposed to spending 365 days a year farming arenas, not doing content and receiving the same reward pool is that so hard to understand?
for now, temporarily at least, non-whale valiants and paragons/TBers are defacto in the same pool. we could have moved to the r4 pool but it would have cost five figures.
you're kind of implying that since you can't get a rank 4 at the same rate as a multi millionaire super whale, that we should gate-keep the rank that JUST GOT DOWNGRADED to second place (r3). that's not how the game works.
You are an assumption making machine...My rewards got limited because what would be suitable for me is too much for. TB account. It has nothing to do with me and whales getting R4s. Because they are in the same pool I got less 7* crystals and Titan crystals, that translates to awakenings and sig levels. I ended up with an overflow of t5cc and way too much t6b, t3a and t6cc included, which for a TB has a lot more value than players like me. Is that clear enough now? One of the highest milestones was an r1-2 Gem while I''m sitting on overflow of r2 mats if you can't see the problem is because you benefitted from this event.
brother, i'm sure you've played for a long time so you know how the game works.
kabam separates progression into different rooms. when a new rank comes out they create a new room, put the shiniest tastiest bait in there and entice superwhales to get it. me and you are free to try for it but since we're not trillionaire oil tycoons, we can't.
so what do we do? we wait patiently in our current rooms while kabam starts shuffling paragons and TB'ers into it. you might not like it but that's how it's always worked.
as we temporarily share the same space with paragons and TBers, in the next 6-8 months kabam will start giving non-whale valiants better access to r4s (content, objectives, special spring cleaning and july 4 offers) and we'll eventually join the oil sheiks and business owners in the fancy room and finally leave the gross yucky disgusting paragons and TBers to themselves. that's how the game works.
sidenote: if we got more 7* shards and sig stones, it would only accelerate the economy and bring about 8*s even faster and we would complain about that too!
Oh ffs I DONT CARE ABOUT THE R4s, stop telling me I am put in a group to separate me from whales. How the heck do you know wether I am a heavy spender or not to be magically separating me from the whales? Do you want to know why I didn't spend on this event? Because the crystals were terrible. Why were they terrible? Because they were limited to what it was suitable for TBs. Funny you think that more 7* shards and sigs would accelerate 8*s... Its more r4s what would accelerate it not sig levels... You like comparing this event to CM so much, tell me why CM which is about a month apart from Banquet was progression gated and Banquet wasn't. I mean you like comparing them so much...
you're asking why cyber monday had a valiant specific progression gate but not banquet? because r4 mats didn't exist yet. after creating the new chase in december they had to shift the game, downgrade r3s, and also let the earlier guys catch up (or the game is toast).
me and you are stuck in a situation where we can't afford a $50k r4 so we have to wait for a clearance sale (objectives, content, spring cleaning, july 4).
7* shards and sig stones DO accelerate the game. extra shards fast forward the champ chase and sig stones are basically shards since we get 20 sigs from crystal openings.
when we run out of both shards and sigs and start having champs at sig 200, we start demanding rank ups and if that goes too fast kabam might have to slow rank progression which makes us bored or has to speed it up which means getting 8*s faster.
1- I don't know if you and I are in the same situation which is why I DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ON YOUR ACCOUNT UNLIKE YOU. 2- There is a huge difference between getting an R4 at a 50k price, and wanting more chances to dup some champions, increase their sigs. 3- The value of this rewards are not even close to the same between myself with 115 7*s and a TB getting 7*s. 4- Huge difference between getting 30% drop rate on T6CC which I can buy easily from BG store and Glory store, as opposed to TBs who every season cry over matchmaking in BGs, and difficulty and cost of Raids (raids being huge on rewards and Glory)
This event was not designed for Valiants, you want to put the R4 issue? Well what about last year?... Its not now or this event or wether it was better than CM or not. For an active progressed Valiant this event was trash. Was it good for you? Good for you congratulations, glad it worked out; but you and I don't have the same needs or benefit in the same way. The difference is that I don't criticize your position. I criticize the event.
i have 130+ 7s but i'm missing a few key dupes and would have liked a better chance there but the milestones more than made up for it. you keep ignoring the value in the milestones which is why this conversation isn't going anywhere.
the main point of the banquet was to introduce a new rank and by default downgrade the second rank and make it more accessible to everyone else.
excuse me if i'm wrong but i'm assuming you're not a multi-millionaire who could afford new r4s, so given where we are in the game (a brand new rank), valiants like me, you, and the other 99.99% literally don't have the space to grow, but we will in the next 6-8 months (and paragons and TB'ers won't enjoy that same growth).
some group will always complain that they didn't get enough. if it's not us, in 6 months it will be the guy below us. it's always been like that. there is literally nothing new kabam could have added to comfort non-whale valiants, so all we can do it wait. don't worry, those "scrub" TB'ers who are partying it up right now will feel the pain later too.
Its not about getting enough or getting more, its about getting adequate rewards based on progression. The crystals were loaded of stuff that I can easily get from BG store and AQ store. The contents and some of the Milestones were designed to be good for TB and completely inadequate to a Valiant.
you say it's not about getting more, but then you say it wasn't adequate.
name something that they could have added to the SBCs that would have made it adequate without accelerating TBer progression too much. acceleration is a domino effect, if they give too much to the lower tiers they have to release the next ranks even faster. you have to look at it holistically.
yes...we didn't move much, and very few superwhales did, and a lot of TBer's did too, but that will change for us soon. it's gonna be ok.
A better rate on 7* shards would have been adequate for Valiants and completely inadequate for TBs. More r3 mats would have been suitable for Valiants and completely insane for TBs. Less T6B and T3a would make more sense for Valiants. And I won't even talk about the high insane rate of T6CC which was obviously targeted for Paragons.
they gave us a good amount of 7* shards, it was just mostly in the milestones...
60k 7* shards 2x 7* basics 1x 7* nexus
plus ALL the other stuff...
So you ask me about one thing to jump to another? Why don't you keep the same argument? I am TALKING ABOUT THE CONTENT OF THE CRYSTALS. All the plus other stuff is also based on all progression levels from the bottom to the top. What part of I DON'T think sharing a pool from top to 3rd is not right? They want to do it in a Realm event fine, do it. The crystals should have not been the same.
@BringPopcorn you have a 21k unit budget. look at this list and tell me exactly what you would get in the exact quantities and we will compare it to the banquet. keep in mind you have to a spend a minimum amount before unlocking the next tier...
And we keep going over this nonsense compare it to last years CM dude, why are you comparing the banquet? The only way I would have told you that you are right is if both events prizes had been released at the same time. CM is CM, 4th is 4th, Banquet is Banquet. Wanna compare it to the Omega event? Or the count nefaria sale too?...Hell lets compare to the spring cleaning and dooblons event too might as well. Poolies too!
@BringPopcorn you have a 21k unit budget. look at this list and tell me exactly what you would get in the exact quantities and we will compare it to the banquet. keep in mind you have to a spend a minimum amount before unlocking the next tier...
And we keep going over this nonsense compare it to last years CM dude, why are you comparing the banquet? The only way I would have told you that you are right is if both events prizes had been released at the same time. CM is CM, 4th is 4th, Banquet is Banquet. Wanna compare it to the Omega event? Or the count nefaria sale too?...Hell lets compare to the spring cleaning and dooblons event too might as well. Poolies too!
it's last MONTH'S banquet, to be precise.
you're avoiding this because you know 21k units in the banquet was much better spent than cyber. since you're not willing to have a good faith discussion i'm out.
Comments
However, there is a huge BUT in there. Valiant rewards were constrained by three different limiting factors, and the fact that Valiants, Paragons, and TBs were basically lumped together is, in my judgment, the least impactful of the three. The second most impactful balancing constraint was the fact that SBCs were not just balanced in value between three different progression tiers, they were also balanced around a gigantic range of purchasing. They needed to account for players opening ten or ten thousand. When you balance rewards in general, you have to account for at least two different balance points: the average return, and the guardrails, You need to make sure that the rewards make sense for the average player doing average things, but you also need to make sure that the absolute maximum possible return does not exceed certain limits. The banquet is the rare event where the guardrails are almost impossible to accurately predict. This places downward pressure on the value of the part of the event that is unlimited in scope: the crystals.
But even that is not the largest constraint on Valiant rewards. The largest constraint on Valiant rewards is that Valiant is the top progression tier (at the moment). The top progression tier is *never* going to consistently get rewards that the players in that tier consider “appropriate” relative to other tiers. All other tiers are largely constrained above and below by other tiers. The range of Paragon players can only get so wide, because at some point they become Valiant players. But because Valiant has no ceiling, the range of players in that tier can get arbitrarily far apart.
If you aim rewards for the middle of Paragon, you’re going to land somewhere near where those rewards should be for low and high Paragons. But if you aim for the middle of Valiant, you’ll be much farther away from the low Valiants and the high Valiants, and the high Valiants keep getting higher every day. You say the fact that one of the higher milestones was an R1->R2 gem means the rewards were tuned for TB. Why? Because Valiants stop ranking 7* champs? Do you think in a perfect world Valiants would have been getting R2->R3 gems in milestone 25? That seems unlikely to me.
There are a lot of Valiants who have in a sense outgrown the Valiant progression tiers. That’s inevitable. The very players who make it to the top tier early are the fastest players: they will grow beyond its original limits much more quickly than intended, precisely because they are the fastest players in the game. But the game can’t accommodate their speed. The game cannot open new progressions as fast as they can reach them, and thus cannot accelerate rewards as fast as would be necessary to do so either. Most Valiant rewards are targeted at “low Valiants” because in the long run most players will be low Valiants. Down the road, the “high Valiants” won’t be high Valiants. They’ll already be in the next tier. But the reward target cannot accelerate upward with them while Valiant is the top progression tiers. And that means even if the entire banquet was designed with Valiant specific rewards, I doubt if those rewards would be “appropriate” as you appear to believe they should be. And they are never going to be.
That’s life in the top tier of progression. If you want to race out to the end of the line, your get to sit back and watch the tracks being laid out. If the banquet contained a Valiant designed reward system, the rewards would have been higher by some amount, but I would bet you’d have said “is that all?” They wouldn’t have increased by enough for you to even care.
Banquet/Gifting had been since released the most monetized and biggest spending event, why on earth did they decide to make the heaviest spending event into a chance for players to catch up is beyond me.
me and you are stuck in a situation where we can't afford a $50k r4 so we have to wait for a clearance sale (objectives, content, spring cleaning, july 4).
7* shards and sig stones DO accelerate the game. extra shards fast forward the champ chase and sig stones are basically shards since we get 20 sigs from crystal openings.
when we run out of both shards and sigs and start having champs at sig 200, we start demanding rank ups and if that goes too fast kabam might have to slow rank progression which makes us bored or has to speed it up which means getting 8*s faster.
It’s not normal for others in the highest progression tier to be lumped in with 2 lower progression tiers. Just like it’s not normal for new players to be given access to all the same features as an Uncollected player. It defeats the point of progressing based on in game achievements to lump them like this. The whole point of progression is that there are multiple levels of gate keeping.
Basically you are stating that you are ok with no gate keeping of other progression levels and that cash is the only thing that matters.
How TF is that a healthy place for the game to be in?
2- There is a huge difference between getting an R4 at a 50k price, and wanting more chances to dup some champions, increase their sigs.
3- The value of this rewards are not even close to the same between myself with 115 7*s and a TB getting 7*s.
4- Huge difference between getting 30% drop rate on T6CC which I can buy easily from BG store and Glory store, as opposed to TBs who every season cry over matchmaking in BGs, and difficulty and cost of Raids (raids being huge on rewards and Glory)
This event was not designed for Valiants, you want to put the R4 issue? Well what about last year?... Its not now or this event or wether it was better than CM or not. For an active progressed Valiant this event was trash. Was it good for you? Good for you congratulations, glad it worked out; but you and I don't have the same needs or benefit in the same way. The difference is that I don't criticize your position. I criticize the event.
Yes I bought a bunch. Hoping to get the good rewards but mostly got the small t6c which I already had lots. The t6c amounts should have been higher. And the drop rates for 7* shards and titan shards should have been higher.
Those would not have skewed anything and at least given some hope for good pulls. But again I will say. Putting the good rewards in the milestones that meant we needed to buy the trash crystals to get there was not fair.
Especially when it was said over and over that these crystals would not be filled with filler.
when something new comes out they charge kidney level prices while putting the 2nd best item in the junk clearance section (r3s).
whales just donated their kidneys, we're not moving up much, and the "scrub tiers" are going wild with new r3s.
there is literally no space for us non-whale valiants to grow.....at the moment. when the banquet dust settles and they get r4s and the paragons and TB'ers get their r3s, we will start chipping away at r4s with valiant-specific objectives, content, and offers (the TB'ers and paragons won't), so it all works out and the divide between us and them will grow as it naturally does.
If the purpose of this Grand Banquet was to make the gap smaller. Wouldn't it make more sense to give current Valiants 6 or 7 r3s depending on crystals opened, and milestones? Instead of tying you to TBs and giving you 2 pr 3 r3s? That was their argument to allow peoeple to catch up to spenders. The reason I am asking you this question is TB with 2 or 3 Rs catching up to whales with 30+ R3? As opposed to active valiants with 15+ R3s being limited to gerting 18+ instead of 20+?
In terms of how they were designed, Kabam said the rewards for the realm event itself were not removed from the original reward budget for the banquet, they were added on top. I can’t prove this is true, but I have no reason to doubt it given the structure of the event. However, because the rewards are designed holistically, it would be difficult to prove either way even if you were in the room, so to speak, because what’s being added is less quantifiable and more judgment. Reward value was added (so they say) which means the overall rewards for the banquet were higher than they would have been if there was no realm event.
Completely separate from that, there’s the question of whether to judge the banquet in its totality as being “good” or not. And I think it is appropriate to judge it including the realm event rewards, because ultimately the realm event is an addition to the banquet, even if we set aside the quibble about reward budgets. It should be considered part of the event, and thus pointless to judge separately from the rest.
The developers do not design the SBCs crystals separately from the solo milestones separately from the realm event milestones. They are all intended to work together, no differently than individual fights are designed to work together on a map. Players shouldn’t judge the rewards for the minions separate from the bosses separate from map completion, because they aren’t intended to be done and collected separately.
Getting back to reward budgets. It has been argued elsewhere that because there is a reward budget (which, once upon a time I was accused of essentially hallucinating) then it is impossible that the realm rewards were added onto the banquet. They had to come from “somewhere.” That’s not true, because of how budgets work in general. Budgets aren’t just made up arbitrarily, they are justified relative to the return on that expense. To put it in terms I believe you would relate to, in a business you might have a budget to spend on employee infrastructure. But that doesn’t mean if you hire a new person and buy them a laptop that comes out of the budget for everyone else and now suddenly everyone else has less to work with. Rather, the budget to spend on employees usually grows on the presumption that that employee will justify that additional expense. That’s why they were hired in the first place.
Kabam added Realm Events to the game. Why is a discussion for another day, but the bottom line is they expect to get a return on that investment. Which means the rewards associated with the realm event itself can have a completely separate justification for existing than everything else in the game originally before Realm Events arrived. Those realm rewards are an additional in-game economic cost the devs presumably have decided to bear to get whatever they think they are going to get from Realm Events in the long run.
That’s how there can be a reward budget, and have realm event rewards added on top of an existing event without breaking that budget in theory. The rewards still have to exist within the same reward budgets constraints, but they can exist outside the original budgetary numbers for the game. And I think it is a fair ask to judge the event based on the fact that the devs did in fact add the realm event to it, and thus the event should be judged on its entirety.
That’s all anyone can reasonably ask for.the main point of the banquet was to introduce a new rank and by default downgrade the second rank and make it more accessible to everyone else.
excuse me if i'm wrong but i'm assuming you're not a multi-millionaire who could afford new r4s, so given where we are in the game (a brand new rank), valiants like me, you, and the other 99.99% literally don't have the space to grow, but we will in the next 6-8 months (and paragons and TB'ers won't enjoy that same growth).
some group will always complain that they didn't get enough. if it's not us, in 6 months it will be the guy below us. it's always been like that. there is literally nothing new kabam could have added to comfort non-whale valiants, so all we can do it wait. don't worry, those "scrub" TB'ers who are partying it up right now will feel the pain later too.
They shouldn't pitchfork for anything its their own damn fault they are in the position they are in. How about spend 2k units in revives if even needed beat act 6 and get their own progression instead of taking a constant piggy back ride and be rewarded for it? We are talking about 2k units if needed.. 7 SBC crystals.. beat the GM.. move on; but no lets put them in the same reward pool as Valiants and limit the reward Valiant could get....
name something that they could have added to the SBCs that would have made it adequate without accelerating TBer progression too much. acceleration is a domino effect, if they give too much to the lower tiers they have to release the next ranks even faster. you have to look at it holistically.
yes...we didn't move much, and very few superwhales did, and a lot of TBer's did too, but that will change for us soon. it's gonna be ok.
Less T6B and T3a would make more sense for Valiants.
And I won't even talk about the high insane rate of T6CC which was obviously targeted for Paragons.
my main goal of opening this thread was that if you have to look at this event in singularity , its not absolute trash and only negative points are horrendous drop rates and unit inflation.
but there is more to it -
1. we were told they would look forward to do better than last time
2. the actual less value of tickets which were out for months and people spent their cash on was not conveyed
3. we were not notified about rise in amount of units required for good rewards
4. realm event was supposed to be add on but they are now saying look at it holistically
5. they completely went silent and didnt communicate properly and from their outlook it was success but never took into account the actual sentiment of the player base
6. they tried to compensate only by asking us to spend more( 3 7 stars which were added in realm event)
7. they had seemingly no intention of addressing issue and went on holidays whle ruining the most anticipated event ever as it was banquet event of the 10th anniversary
60k 7* shards
2x 7* basics
1x 7* nexus
plus ALL the other stuff...
Why don't you keep the same argument?
I am TALKING ABOUT THE CONTENT OF THE CRYSTALS. All the plus other stuff is also based on all progression levels from the bottom to the top. What part of I DON'T think sharing a pool from top to 3rd is not right? They want to do it in a Realm event fine, do it. The crystals should have not been the same.
CM is CM, 4th is 4th, Banquet is Banquet.
Wanna compare it to the Omega event? Or the count nefaria sale too?...Hell lets compare to the spring cleaning and dooblons event too might as well. Poolies too!
you're avoiding this because you know 21k units in the banquet was much better spent than cyber. since you're not willing to have a good faith discussion i'm out.