What do you think of new champions being designed primarily around countering Serpent/Bullseye

Comments

• Squidopus Member Posts: 747 ★★★★

  January 10 edited January 10

  Other (comment)

  A lot of these champs are just champs that happen to also have the tools to counter Bullseye/Serpent but do plenty of other things (Dazzler, Shathra, Spiral, etc.) and tbh some of these aren’t even particularly capable counters to them (idk if I’d call Nefaria a Serpent counter so much as a desperation backup option, and Enchantress isn’t really fast enough on the draw to be relevant against him either in the game modes that he’s such a problem in). I don’t see the issue at the end of the day I suppose.

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• IAmGrO_ot78 Member Posts: 152 ★★

  January 10

  Other (comment)

  I really dont care, probably because I got Chavez/ Wiger / Kindred / Doom for Serpent.
  Negasonic / AA / Odin / Sinister for Bullseye.
  Havok / Angela / Hulkling / Herc for Onslaught….so I really dont think there ever was a huge need to develop new champs to counter these defenders.

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• Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,689 ★★★★★

  January 10

  I don't mind it, since that still means the champion will be useful in many places (or, BGs is the main focus for me so its still beneficial)

  Literally every champ you listed (outside isophyne) are versatile and can be used in a ton of other places outside of Serpent and Bullseye.
  
  Dazzler can nuke a ton, Spiral is also a general nuke even though she’s mainly a serpent counter, Nefaria isn’t even close to the best serpent counter but great for a ton of other stuff, Enchantress sucks for serpent outside of extreme longform which we haven’t even had yet, and Shathra is also a general nuke
  
  What’s the issue here? They’re not just good for one thing

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• TotemCorruption Member Posts: 309 ★★

  January 10

  If you think Shathra is primarily a Serpent counter, then I don't know what to say.
  She counters almost everyone...
  
  
  
  
  

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• Emilia90 Member Posts: 3,689 ★★★★★

  January 10

  I don't mind it, since that still means the champion will be useful in many places (or, BGs is the main focus for me so its still beneficial)

  TotemCorruption said:

  If you think Shathra is primarily a Serpent counter, then I don't know what to say.
  She counters almost everyone...
  
  
  
  
  

  Half the people he listed aren’t even meant to counter those champs (btw jealous of that Shathra)
  
  Spiral was the first serpent hard counter too. Shathra is good for him but like you said, she’s a general nuke and was mostly designed as a Maestro hard counter
  
  Nefaria isn’t even intended as a serpent counter (he can’t evade him) and Enchantress was designed as a tough defender and she can counter pretty much anyone in long form
  
  Idk why OP is acting like it’s constrictive when all these champs have far more usage than what was described. Dazzler is one of the best general BG nukes too lol

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• TotemCorruption Member Posts: 309 ★★

  January 10

  Emilia90 said:

  TotemCorruption said:

  If you think Shathra is primarily a Serpent counter, then I don't know what to say.
  She counters almost everyone...
  
  
  
  
  

  Half the people he listed aren’t even meant to counter those champs (btw jealous of that Shathra)
  
  Spiral was the first serpent hard counter too. Shathra is good for him but like you said, she’s a general nuke and was mostly designed as a Maestro hard counter
  
  Nefaria isn’t even intended as a serpent counter (he can’t evade him) and Enchantress was designed as a tough defender and she can counter pretty much anyone in long form
  
  Idk why OP is acting like it’s constrictive when all these champs have far more usage than what was described. Dazzler is one of the best general BG nukes too lol

  Yeah I need to practice more with Dazzler (and awaken her hopefully), but labeling her just a Bullseye counter is ridiculous. Like her sig ability is aimed literally at Killmonger, Attuma, and Korg...

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• Ashacekar Member Posts: 2,270 ★★★★★

  January 10 edited January 10

  I don't mind it, since that still means the champion will be useful in many places (or, BGs is the main focus for me so its still beneficial)

  I m fine with more Bullsie/Serpie counters, makes bg more balanced. Initially when they came out it seemed bad, now with more versatile counters for them things look even.

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• altavista Member Posts: 1,556 ★★★★

  January 10

  To be clear, I am not saying that these are champions are limited outside the targeted matchup compared to how Negasonic or Patriot or IDoom seem to be undercut by having a design primarily as a counter.
  
  The best analogy for what I am getting at is if new champions were desserts, most of what Kabam is putting out is Ice Cream with the occasional cake. Ice cream isn't bad, and there still can be variety within ice cream, but it is still primarily ice cream.

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• Squidopus Member Posts: 747 ★★★★

  January 10

  Other (comment)

  altavista said:

  To be clear, I am not saying that these are champions are limited outside the targeted matchup compared to how Negasonic or Patriot or IDoom seem to be undercut by having a design primarily as a counter.
  
  The best analogy for what I am getting at is if new champions were desserts, most of what Kabam is putting out is Ice Cream with the occasional cake. Ice cream isn't bad, and there still can be variety within ice cream, but it is still primarily ice cream.

  Then I think the analogy is flawed. Calling every champ listed here as “different flavors of ice cream” still implies that they are one and the same in some form (Bullseye/Serpent counter) and that this similarity is what defines them. For most of these champs, I think classifying them solely off of that factor is a disservice to them. Shathra and Spiral may both counter Serpent, but they couldn’t be more different in so many other ways. Shathra destroys specific buffs and punishes buffs on the opponent, has a very unique playstyle, and stacks rupture debuffs. Shathra is a queen of power steal who throws specials very rapidly and deals huge passive energy damage during them while controlling buffs with atrophy. Your main post mentions how designing around countering these defenders is restrictive, and yet these two counters are wholly unique champs with entirely different mechanics and gameplay feel. I just don’t feel like this is a very sensible categorization to use, at least as you currently are in assuming this is some fundamental guiding principle behind their designs.

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• Lokx Member Posts: 1,538 ★★★★

  January 10

  altavista said:

  To be clear, I am not saying that these are champions are limited outside the targeted matchup compared to how Negasonic or Patriot or IDoom seem to be undercut by having a design primarily as a counter.
  
  The best analogy for what I am getting at is if new champions were desserts, most of what Kabam is putting out is Ice Cream with the occasional cake. Ice cream isn't bad, and there still can be variety within ice cream, but it is still primarily ice cream.

  Negasonic is in no way similar to these two. She counters majority of the skill class and can take on nodes that penalises inflicting debuffs. She has cool evade mechanic for those who counter evade (which is not just skill class). The pool of champs she can take on is large and can expand depending on the nodes. No she isn’t the best bg attacker, but she still has a lot of cool usability.

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• EdisonLaw Member Posts: 9,034 ★★★★★

  January 11

  I don't mind it, since that still means the champion will be useful in many places (or, BGs is the main focus for me so its still beneficial)

  As long as they can counter other champions I am fine with it. For example, Spiral is good for not just Serpent but other buff heavy champions as well, Jack is an Onslaught counter but he’s also viable for other defenders like Mr Sinister and even Bullseye

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