Deep Dive : Falcon ( Joaquin Torres )

he seems better attacker than zola

but with stacked science class we have to see if he finds a place in the contest

also needs little bit of time to get fully ramped

https://youtu.be/OjYvG7H2bI0?si=8Sdo08yIbwPOVbuG

Comments

WednesdayLength

Okay, no one's mentioning this so I'll mention it - HE'S A FREAKING VAMPIRE!?

He was genetically spliced with Sam's falcon redwing. Who is a vampire. Because comics

WednesdayLength

And, locking Trauma behind Slow (except for using the SP2) is a big limiting factor, essentially eliminating an entire class of champions he can take.

I mean deathless she hulk is also useless against the skill class

WednesdayLength

Science class is too OP and it set an unrealistic standard for new science champs. A skill/tech champ with similar utility and damage will get celebrated lol.
I dunno, I was reading the champion spotlight and was mistakenly thinking he was a Skill champion (the Instincts portion made me think of Hit Monkey) and was not impressed by what I was reading. Slow seems to be given out like candy, so aside from that it just seems like damage + damage mitigation.

When is the last time we got a champion with slow

EdisonLaw

And, locking Trauma behind Slow (except for using the SP2) is a big limiting factor, essentially eliminating an entire class of champions he can take.

Well he's a science champion so you shouldn't use him against debuff shruggers and skill champs

EdisonLaw

And, locking Trauma behind Slow (except for using the SP2) is a big limiting factor, essentially eliminating an entire class of champions he can take.
I mean deathless she hulk is also useless against the skill class

And so is regular She Hulk

altavista

And, locking Trauma behind Slow (except for using the SP2) is a big limiting factor, essentially eliminating an entire class of champions he can take.
Well he's a science champion so you shouldn't use him against debuff shruggers and skill champs

I know thats a common argument, but you don’t always have a choice (Eg. Objectives or Class gates mean you have to bring a Science to take on Skill). And on the opposing side you have champions that purposefully ignore this class disadvantage argument (cosmics that are nullify immune). So it’s not like it’s a hard and fast rule.

Yes, Shang Chi loses out on Slow against Mutants, but you can still pretty much do everything you need to do while using him against Mutants (aside from Nightcrawler).
Vox is an example of where it’s not recommended to take in against Mystics, but you still can. Its not like Vox is specifically gimped in terms of Utility and Damage against Mystics, you just lose more health against Nullify mystics.

Torres just blankets loses out on damage against a whole class, as well as not having the utility. Based solely on his his kit reads (with all the “Target matchups” statements on the spotlight), it seems like he’s designed to handle a few Mystics + is drastically reduced against Skill. That doesn’t seem worth it compared to any number of other Science champions to prioritize.

007Bishop

Science class is too OP and it set an unrealistic standard for new science champs. A skill/tech champ with similar utility and damage will get celebrated lol.
I dunno, I was reading the champion spotlight and was mistakenly thinking he was a Skill champion (the Instincts portion made me think of Hit Monkey) and was not impressed by what I was reading. Slow seems to be given out like candy, so aside from that it just seems like damage + damage mitigation.
When is the last time we got a champion with slow

Northstar.

PT_99

Actually Falcon looks like a good Serpent counter, bulwark, block regeneration, special attack reduction, consistent burst damage output, etc

Forum MEMEbers strike again.

PT_99

To be honest in the video he's hitting like 6r4 for some reason?
Kebem can't keep giving us damageless heroes with excuse of, "but uhh utility uhhh"

Hopefully he gets tune up big in damage department because there's not a SINGLE unique thing this dude can do when it comes to utility also.
Because I forgot, when was the last time we celebrated, "Yay, slow debuff, now I can finally counter unstoppable haha."

In the showcase he wasn't shown fighting a single modern defender, they showed him fighting dormamu, doom, mangog 💀

Yeah Enchantress was there but she was in her singular form/spells instead of trio spells and still felt slow, even then I'd rather fight Enche with silk, Titania with no set-up and just straight rush to sp2/sp3 respectively.

I had high hopes because surely Kebem can't mess up 3 falcons in a row, surely but all I was left with,

"That's it?" 😐

WednesdayLength

And, locking Trauma behind Slow (except for using the SP2) is a big limiting factor, essentially eliminating an entire class of champions he can take.
Well he's a science champion so you shouldn't use him against debuff shruggers and skill champs
I know thats a common argument, but you don’t always have a choice (Eg. Objectives or Class gates mean you have to bring a Science to take on Skill). And on the opposing side you have champions that purposefully ignore this class disadvantage argument (cosmics that are nullify immune). So it’s not like it’s a hard and fast rule.

Yes, Shang Chi loses out on Slow against Mutants, but you can still pretty much do everything you need to do while using him against Mutants (aside from Nightcrawler).
Vox is an example of where it’s not recommended to take in against Mystics, but you still can. Its not like Vox is specifically gimped in terms of Utility and Damage against Mystics, you just lose more health against Nullify mystics.

Torres just blankets loses out on damage against a whole class, as well as not having the utility. Based solely on his his kit reads (with all the “Target matchups” statements on the spotlight), it seems like he’s designed to handle a few Mystics + is drastically reduced against Skill. That doesn’t seem worth it compared to any number of other Science champions to prioritize.

Cosmic champions that are nullify immune are still often weak to other forms of buff control, I'm so sick of people acting like the cosmic class just ignores class disadvantage when it's not true.

Yeah it's weird that his trauma won't work against skill champions, but he's not the only character this happens to and it stops deathless she hulk too but no one complains about that

WednesdayLength

Science class is too OP and it set an unrealistic standard for new science champs. A skill/tech champ with similar utility and damage will get celebrated lol.
I dunno, I was reading the champion spotlight and was mistakenly thinking he was a Skill champion (the Instincts portion made me think of Hit Monkey) and was not impressed by what I was reading. Slow seems to be given out like candy, so aside from that it just seems like damage + damage mitigation.
When is the last time we got a champion with slow
Northstar.

So Slow isn't thrown around like candy then, especially not to Science champions at the moment

altavista

Science class is too OP and it set an unrealistic standard for new science champs. A skill/tech champ with similar utility and damage will get celebrated lol.
I dunno, I was reading the champion spotlight and was mistakenly thinking he was a Skill champion (the Instincts portion made me think of Hit Monkey) and was not impressed by what I was reading. Slow seems to be given out like candy, so aside from that it just seems like damage + damage mitigation.
When is the last time we got a champion with slow
Northstar.
So Slow isn't thrown around like candy then, especially not to Science champions at the moment

Not sure why you're being so pedantic about a clear figure of speech (By the same token, I should be sending you get well cards for all the times you claim to feel sick). If you want to be pedantic, then here's some logic: Halloween happens once a year. Candy is handed out on Halloween. Ergo, candy is handed out once a year. So "handed out like candy" still applies if it happens once a year.

Slow debuff is more common amongst Science champions, therefore having it does not help a Science champion stand out. And in terms of the She-Hulk comparison, there is nuance. She can't refresh her Furys against Skill champions, but imagine that she couldn't even gain any Furys against Skill champions.

WednesdayLength

Science class is too OP and it set an unrealistic standard for new science champs. A skill/tech champ with similar utility and damage will get celebrated lol.
I dunno, I was reading the champion spotlight and was mistakenly thinking he was a Skill champion (the Instincts portion made me think of Hit Monkey) and was not impressed by what I was reading. Slow seems to be given out like candy, so aside from that it just seems like damage + damage mitigation.
When is the last time we got a champion with slow
Northstar.
So Slow isn't thrown around like candy then, especially not to Science champions at the moment
Not sure why you're being so pedantic about a clear figure of speech (By the same token, I should be sending you get well cards for all the times you claim to feel sick). If you want to be pedantic, then here's some logic: Halloween happens once a year. Candy is handed out on Halloween. Ergo, candy is handed out once a year. So "handed out like candy" still applies if it happens once a year.

Slow debuff is more common amongst Science champions, therefore having it does not help a Science champion stand out. And in terms of the She-Hulk comparison, there is nuance. She can't refresh her Furys against Skill champions, but imagine that she couldn't even gain any Furys against Skill champions.

I don't think I've ever said I feel sick on this forum but go off.

If you're going to condescendingly explain an expression to me then at least do it right. Handing things out like candy specifically means something is given out to a lot of people. By saying that him having slow isn't that great because show is given out like candy your point falls apart if slow is in fact not being given out. The last slow character we has was northstar and the last science slow character we got was silk, a year and a half ago. Having a champion with easy access to slow is actually a rarity in the current science landscape.

I'm not being pedantic, you're just wrong

007Bishop

Science class is too OP and it set an unrealistic standard for new science champs. A skill/tech champ with similar utility and damage will get celebrated lol.
I dunno, I was reading the champion spotlight and was mistakenly thinking he was a Skill champion (the Instincts portion made me think of Hit Monkey) and was not impressed by what I was reading. Slow seems to be given out like candy, so aside from that it just seems like damage + damage mitigation.
When is the last time we got a champion with slow
Northstar.
So Slow isn't thrown around like candy then, especially not to Science champions at the moment

Point is Northstar is somewhat of a new champ still.

WednesdayLength

Science class is too OP and it set an unrealistic standard for new science champs. A skill/tech champ with similar utility and damage will get celebrated lol.
I dunno, I was reading the champion spotlight and was mistakenly thinking he was a Skill champion (the Instincts portion made me think of Hit Monkey) and was not impressed by what I was reading. Slow seems to be given out like candy, so aside from that it just seems like damage + damage mitigation.
When is the last time we got a champion with slow
Northstar.
So Slow isn't thrown around like candy then, especially not to Science champions at the moment
Point is Northstar is somewhat of a new champ still.

1 champion in the last year with slow is not them being thrown out like candy which is the actual point being made