Wrong Featured Crystal?

Shouldn't it be Void, not Sentry?

Comments

Mikif10 wrote: »

@miike
I opened 2 sentry crystals when it was supposed to be void
How is it fair to the ones that didn’t pull sentry and got void based on your decision and keep sentry .
So basically 2 featured champs for one crystal!
I dudnt pull sentry but maybe I could have pulled him as a sub featured if void was there!
How is fair to the people like myself that didn’t pull sentry ???

Although you make a point that the actual featured void crystal would have had sentry in it as a subfeature, thus slightly changing the odds to get any champ specifically other than void (simplified version, but 80% champ of pulling 1 of x basic or x sub-feature champs vs. 80% chance of pulling 1 of x basic or (x+1) sub-feature champs, the difference would be fairly insignificant. Also, Imagine if you pulled a desired sub-featured champ you needed instead of the wrong feature? I’m not sure there is a solution other than what they did here. Good job imo by kabam for addressing a frustrating issue and being generous.

Full disclosure, I pulled one of the wrong crystals before noticing the issue as well and did not gwt Sentry, so I am not getting a Void out of this either.

Hulksmasshh

BitterSteel wrote: »

I wasn’t affected by this issue whatsoever, I did not open a sentry or void crystal. But what if someone had say 60k shards and they opened 2 of the wrong crystal and got sentry twice. Believing that this sentry was in the sub feature pool and not (as it was) the featured champ, they opened two more crystals and got random champions.

Had the correct crystal been put out, they would have got the featured champ, void, and then stopped after duping him, but because the got sentry they opened extra crystals and wasted shards.

I think I remember reading about someome in this or a similar situation.

I think the “compensation” for this is allowing the players to keep their Sentry. It’s not the most ideal situation and many players would probably rather have 15k shards back instead of Sentry but I think it’s a fair enough solution given the circumstances.

Run477

BitterSteel wrote: »

I wasn’t affected by this issue whatsoever, I did not open a sentry or void crystal. But what if someone had say 60k shards and they opened 2 of the wrong crystal and got sentry twice. Believing that this sentry was in the sub feature pool and not (as it was) the featured champ, they opened two more crystals and got random champions.

Had the correct crystal been put out, they would have got the featured champ, void, and then stopped after duping him, but because the got sentry they opened extra crystals and wasted shards.

I think I remember reading about someome in this or a similar situation.

I had opened a third crystal after pulling sentry with the second and duped him with the third. (My first try was groot). Then used 600 units trying to get void out of featured gmc.

However, I’m ecstatic with the solution kabam came up with

FactorQ

@DNA3000 @chunkyb it's possible this solution was offered to address both your thoughts: if someone got Sentry while really going for Void, it's reasonably likely to assume they spent more shards to try and get Void. Thus giving Void on top of keeping Sentry is really just to make up for extra shards that they might have spent. Obviously not a perfect solution that fits for all, but one that isn't really too unfair to the crystal spinner and those who didn't go for it.

Plus isn't everyone complaining about how bad Sentry is? Not really giving players a huge competitive advantage in keeping him if that's the case

Mikif10

@Robhopp20 @Kabam Miike
It’s still not fair that some get 2 for one and others must live with the outcome
All that opened the wrong crystal ( kabam fault ) are in “ the same boat “ and all should be compensated equally

Deadbyrd9

People should read any crystal description before opening and this problem would have never existed because no one would have opened the sentry crystal. In the email they sent out it even said sentry was the featured champ in the void crystal

GroundedWisdom

Hulksmasshh wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

I wasn’t affected by this issue whatsoever, I did not open a sentry or void crystal. But what if someone had say 60k shards and they opened 2 of the wrong crystal and got sentry twice. Believing that this sentry was in the sub feature pool and not (as it was) the featured champ, they opened two more crystals and got random champions.

Had the correct crystal been put out, they would have got the featured champ, void, and then stopped after duping him, but because the got sentry they opened extra crystals and wasted shards.

I think I remember reading about someome in this or a similar situation.

I think the “compensation” for this is allowing the players to keep their Sentry. It’s not the most ideal situation and many players would probably rather have 15k shards back instead of Sentry but I think it’s a fair enough solution given the circumstances.

I'd say more than fair. Considering they could have replaced said Sentry with a Void. In this instance, they receive 2 Champs.

MattMan

@Kabam Miike I pulled Sentry on the first crystal I formed, then tried two more time for Void when I would have stopped at the first. How can I get my 30k shards back for the two crystals I wouldn’t have formed otherwise?

Legendary_Gatto

Mikif10 wrote: »

@Robhopp20 @Kabam Miike
It’s still not fair that some get 2 for one and others must live with the outcome
All that opened the wrong crystal ( kabam fault ) are in “ the same boat “ and all should be compensated equally

Totally agree on this, i didn't opened them one at time, but my way to open crystals is buy how many i want and open popping them

In other case i could stop after the first one, now i assume is my fault because i open crystals like this?
LOL

Robhopp20

Deadbyrd9 wrote: »

People should read any crystal description before opening and this problem would have never existed because no one would have opened the sentry crystal. In the email they sent out it even said sentry was the featured champ in the void crystal

Fair enough. And believe me, I’m upset at myself as well for opening a “void” crystal that was really for sentry. That said, the email I received and immediately rushed to buy it after said it was a “sentry” crystal for void. Not the otherway around.

axelelf_1

No one ever likes someone else's good fortune. This community is more than proof of that.

Mikif10

@Kabam Miike @Legendary_Gatto
For the once that didn’t pull sentry
I’m not saying we should get rewarded with void
But
U made a mistake and you should take responsibility for it and be fair to all involved.
and compensate at least with something like a basic 5* crystal or shards for your mistake

Johnny_Wildfire

@Kabam Miike considering that everyone that pulled Sentry out of the wrong Crystal are rewarded with a second featured Champ for the price of one I would suggest that everyone that didnt had the luck of pulling sentry should receive at least a regular 5* Hero Crystal, that would be fair

Robhopp20

axelelf_1 wrote: »

No one ever likes someone else's good fortune. This community is more than proof of that.

Indeed. I never expected to be handed a champ or get any compensation from the mixup. I was just curious if they intended to reverse pulls and replace with new crystals or not. It is what it is. I think Kabam actually went beyond what they probably had to and am happy for those that got those outcomes. Does make me wish I pulled a Sentry from it now though, which is something I never would have said before. Lol

unknown

This content has been removed.

Legendary_Gatto

Mikif10 wrote: »

@Kabam Miike @Legendary_Gatto
For the once that didn’t pull sentry
I’m not saying we should get rewarded with void
But
U made a mistake and you should take responsibility for it and be fair to all involved.
and compensate at least with something like a basic 5* crystal or shards for your mistake

Or give us back just half the amount of shards, at least give us a concrete chance to pull the desired champ

With wrong GGC they refunded them back letting players keeping the rewards from the wrong ones; 60K 5 star shards are not so easy to farm

GroundedWisdom

Legendary_Gatto wrote: »

Mikif10 wrote: »

@Robhopp20 @Kabam Miike
It’s still not fair that some get 2 for one and others must live with the outcome
All that opened the wrong crystal ( kabam fault ) are in “ the same boat “ and all should be compensated equally

Totally agree on this, i didn't opened them one at time, but my way to open crystals is buy how many i want and open popping them

In other case i could stop after the first one, now i assume is my fault because i open crystals like this?
LOL

No matter how many you opened, if the RNG didn't give the Featured, it wouldn't have mattered.

Deadbyrd9

@Robhopp20 I did have that backwards on the email. Thanks for the correction

Legendary_Gatto

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Legendary_Gatto wrote: »

Mikif10 wrote: »

@Robhopp20 @Kabam Miike
It’s still not fair that some get 2 for one and others must live with the outcome
All that opened the wrong crystal ( kabam fault ) are in “ the same boat “ and all should be compensated equally

Totally agree on this, i didn't opened them one at time, but my way to open crystals is buy how many i want and open popping them

In other case i could stop after the first one, now i assume is my fault because i open crystals like this?
LOL

No matter how many you opened, if the RNG didn't give the Featured, it wouldn't have mattered.

yeah, but i had to open a totally different crystal, you can try to convince me results could be the same, but at the same time they could not

chunkyb

Hmmmmmmm. My post disappeared. How interesting. Don't think it broke any rules. Simply pointed out the silliness of this "fix". Said something along the lines of...

It's nice kabam is fixing it's mistake. But it's ridiculous to award players an extra champ when you could just swap the champs out. It's an unnecessary bonus champ for a very small percentage of players. And if the crystal description laid out that it was sentry (I don't really remember that part), then it's the players' fault anyway. Regardless, two for one is a bad solution. I thought game balance was the overall idea in most kabam decisions.

GroundedWisdom

Legendary_Gatto wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Legendary_Gatto wrote: »

Mikif10 wrote: »

@Robhopp20 @Kabam Miike
It’s still not fair that some get 2 for one and others must live with the outcome
All that opened the wrong crystal ( kabam fault ) are in “ the same boat “ and all should be compensated equally

Totally agree on this, i didn't opened them one at time, but my way to open crystals is buy how many i want and open popping them

In other case i could stop after the first one, now i assume is my fault because i open crystals like this?
LOL

No matter how many you opened, if the RNG didn't give the Featured, it wouldn't have mattered.

yeah, but i had to open a totally different crystal, you can try to convince me results could be the same, but at the same time they could not

If the RNG rolled the Featured, you would have gotten the Featured outcome. Whether it was the Sentry or Void. You would have kept opening them either way, and this wouldn't have affected you.

unknown

This content has been removed.

DNA3000

Robhopp20 wrote: »

Mikif10 wrote: »

@miike
I opened 2 sentry crystals when it was supposed to be void
How is it fair to the ones that didn’t pull sentry and got void based on your decision and keep sentry .
So basically 2 featured champs for one crystal!
I dudnt pull sentry but maybe I could have pulled him as a sub featured if void was there!
How is fair to the people like myself that didn’t pull sentry ???

Although you make a point that the actual featured void crystal would have had sentry in it as a subfeature, thus slightly changing the odds to get any champ specifically other than void (simplified version, but 80% champ of pulling 1 of x basic or x sub-feature champs vs. 80% chance of pulling 1 of x basic or (x+1) sub-feature champs, the difference would be fairly insignificant.

Its even lower than you're portraying. The way the crystal works is that there is a fixed chance to pull basic, a fixed chance to pull subfeatured, and a fixed chance to pull featured. Those odds do not change regardless of the content of the crystal. So the odds of pulling a basic champion are the same for the Void and Sentry crystals. The odds of pulling featured or subfeatured are also the same for both crystals. The only difference is that the Sentry crystal (which contains Void, I feel the need to keep stating) has a subfeatured table that has one more champion in it: Sentry. So the odds of pulling a subfeatured champ is exactly the same, but *if* you had pulled subfeatured then the odds of pulling any one particular champion in the Void crystal is slightly higher than it is in the Sentry crystal, with the exception being Sentry himself (which has a small chance to appear in the Void crystal's subfeatured table and a zero chance to appear in the Sentry crystal).

So the only way in which opening the Void crystal would be different from opening the Sentry crystal, besides the obvious difference in who the featured actually was, is that *if* you pulled subfeatured in the erroneous Void crystal you had no shot at Sentry. So unless you *wanted* Sentry instead of the other subfeatured champions in that pool, you were unaffected. If you did want Sentry instead of the other subfeatured champions, then you lost out on probably a less than 1% chance of pulling him (first you had to pull subfeatured which has something between 1% and 5% chance of happening, and then you have to pull Sentry out of all the options in that pool).

DNA3000

Legendary_Gatto wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Legendary_Gatto wrote: »

Mikif10 wrote: »

@Robhopp20 @Kabam Miike
It’s still not fair that some get 2 for one and others must live with the outcome
All that opened the wrong crystal ( kabam fault ) are in “ the same boat “ and all should be compensated equally

Totally agree on this, i didn't opened them one at time, but my way to open crystals is buy how many i want and open popping them

In other case i could stop after the first one, now i assume is my fault because i open crystals like this?
LOL

No matter how many you opened, if the RNG didn't give the Featured, it wouldn't have mattered.

yeah, but i had to open a totally different crystal, you can try to convince me results could be the same, but at the same time they could not

An unlimited number of factors determine what the RNG happens to roll at the exact moment you roll. No game operator can compensate you for all of those. Otherwise, every time the game goes down, the servers lag, or the Earth changes rotation by a few nanoseconds they would have to compensate everyone for every crystal opened. You cannot guarantee that things happened exactly as they would have, you can only determine if the odds were the same in the different situation.

Robhopp20

DNA3000 wrote: »

Robhopp20 wrote: »

Mikif10 wrote: »

@miike
I opened 2 sentry crystals when it was supposed to be void
How is it fair to the ones that didn’t pull sentry and got void based on your decision and keep sentry .
So basically 2 featured champs for one crystal!
I dudnt pull sentry but maybe I could have pulled him as a sub featured if void was there!
How is fair to the people like myself that didn’t pull sentry ???

Although you make a point that the actual featured void crystal would have had sentry in it as a subfeature, thus slightly changing the odds to get any champ specifically other than void (simplified version, but 80% champ of pulling 1 of x basic or x sub-feature champs vs. 80% chance of pulling 1 of x basic or (x+1) sub-feature champs, the difference would be fairly insignificant.

Its even lower than you're portraying. The way the crystal works is that there is a fixed chance to pull basic, a fixed chance to pull subfeatured, and a fixed chance to pull featured. Those odds do not change regardless of the content of the crystal. So the odds of pulling a basic champion are the same for the Void and Sentry crystals. The odds of pulling featured or subfeatured are also the same for both crystals. The only difference is that the Sentry crystal (which contains Void, I feel the need to keep stating) has a subfeatured table that has one more champion in it: Sentry. So the odds of pulling a subfeatured champ is exactly the same, but *if* you had pulled subfeatured then the odds of pulling any one particular champion in the Void crystal is slightly higher than it is in the Sentry crystal, with the exception being Sentry himself (which has a small chance to appear in the Void crystal's subfeatured table and a zero chance to appear in the Sentry crystal).

So the only way in which opening the Void crystal would be different from opening the Sentry crystal, besides the obvious difference in who the featured actually was, is that *if* you pulled subfeatured in the erroneous Void crystal you had no shot at Sentry. So unless you *wanted* Sentry instead of the other subfeatured champions in that pool, you were unaffected. If you did want Sentry instead of the other subfeatured champions, then you lost out on probably a less than 1% chance of pulling him (first you had to pull subfeatured which has something between 1% and 5% chance of happening, and then you have to pull Sentry out of all the options in that pool).

That’s what i was trying to say in simplified terms, but guess it didn’t come across right. Thanks for cleaning that up for me @DNA3000

Ironically, I actually would have been fairly happy with Sentry as a sub for prestige purposes, but that’s my only gripe. And it’s a small one.

DNA3000

Robhopp20 wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

Robhopp20 wrote: »

Mikif10 wrote: »

@miike
I opened 2 sentry crystals when it was supposed to be void
How is it fair to the ones that didn’t pull sentry and got void based on your decision and keep sentry .
So basically 2 featured champs for one crystal!
I dudnt pull sentry but maybe I could have pulled him as a sub featured if void was there!
How is fair to the people like myself that didn’t pull sentry ???

Although you make a point that the actual featured void crystal would have had sentry in it as a subfeature, thus slightly changing the odds to get any champ specifically other than void (simplified version, but 80% champ of pulling 1 of x basic or x sub-feature champs vs. 80% chance of pulling 1 of x basic or (x+1) sub-feature champs, the difference would be fairly insignificant.

Its even lower than you're portraying. The way the crystal works is that there is a fixed chance to pull basic, a fixed chance to pull subfeatured, and a fixed chance to pull featured. Those odds do not change regardless of the content of the crystal. So the odds of pulling a basic champion are the same for the Void and Sentry crystals. The odds of pulling featured or subfeatured are also the same for both crystals. The only difference is that the Sentry crystal (which contains Void, I feel the need to keep stating) has a subfeatured table that has one more champion in it: Sentry. So the odds of pulling a subfeatured champ is exactly the same, but *if* you had pulled subfeatured then the odds of pulling any one particular champion in the Void crystal is slightly higher than it is in the Sentry crystal, with the exception being Sentry himself (which has a small chance to appear in the Void crystal's subfeatured table and a zero chance to appear in the Sentry crystal).

So the only way in which opening the Void crystal would be different from opening the Sentry crystal, besides the obvious difference in who the featured actually was, is that *if* you pulled subfeatured in the erroneous Void crystal you had no shot at Sentry. So unless you *wanted* Sentry instead of the other subfeatured champions in that pool, you were unaffected. If you did want Sentry instead of the other subfeatured champions, then you lost out on probably a less than 1% chance of pulling him (first you had to pull subfeatured which has something between 1% and 5% chance of happening, and then you have to pull Sentry out of all the options in that pool).

That’s what i was trying to say in simplified terms, but guess it didn’t come across right. Thanks for cleaning that up for me @DNA3000

The specific thing I was keying off of was that your post seemed to imply the odds of getting any champ other than Void was slightly different in the Sentry crystal, but in fact the odds of getting any particular basic are the same: it is only the individual chance of pulling any particular subfeatured that change. And ignoring Sentry, the relative odds of pulling any particular subfeatured champion other than Sentry are still the same. If I misunderstood that, I'm sorry.

DNA3000

chunkyb wrote: »

Hmmmmmmm. My post disappeared. How interesting. Don't think it broke any rules. Simply pointed out the silliness of this "fix". Said something along the lines of...

It's nice kabam is fixing it's mistake. But it's ridiculous to award players an extra champ when you could just swap the champs out. It's an unnecessary bonus champ for a very small percentage of players. And if the crystal description laid out that it was sentry (I don't really remember that part), then it's the players' fault anyway. Regardless, two for one is a bad solution. I thought game balance was the overall idea in most kabam decisions.

As pointed out earlier, it is more complicated than just swapping Void for Sentry as I originally suggested. Some players actually pulled Sentry from the crystal that contained Sentry originally, and then pulled Sentry again when they thought they were pulling for Void. In that case, Kabam can't swap Sentry for Void, they would have to reduce the sig level of Sentry and then add in Void. It is still theoretically doable, but it makes the problem more complex, and it is entirely possible there exist other corner cases no one has thought about yet, especially in the amount of time they devoted to considering their best option.

As to the notion that it was the players' fault, that's your opinion and the opinion of others. But that opinion is highly unlikely to be the majority opinion. When I make such decisions as a business operator, I consider first my own opinion of what is reasonable, and then second what the majority of my customers will likely believe is reasonable which I have a certain limited obligation to honor. Beyond that, I cannot, and do not, expend additional effort considering all other possible opinions of what is reasonable before acting. I do not expect any other company to do anything substantively different, and in this case Kabam is acting in a manner consistent with how I would act as a business operator.

With regard to fairness, as with all games there is no such thing as implementing fairness based on outcomes. You can only implement fairness based on opportunities. No player gained an unfair opportunity from this error, because no player could anticipate or predict the results of opening the errant crystal. And the only players with the opportunity to do so are the same players that would have had the same opportunity to open the correct crystal.

Fpaez87

God damn! Lucky the one who pulled sentry while the wrong crystal was up, you are getting 2 high prestige champs for the price of one...

I got sentry during his release week, any chance I can get a void as well??

Got to say, this solution is awesome, not for me, but for the lucky ones who pulled sentry... I hope I get a break in the near future as well. Hopefully I won’t quit before my break comes.

Droggs

I honestly don't think kabam handled this the right way. Getting 2 champs for the price of one is absurd. Just take away the sentry they got and give them void and gift back any gold and rank up material they used on sentry. Fair trade.

Guess the only problem is what if sentry was pulled as the subfeatured and not as the intended feature then they were deserve sentry. Well in that case give them void anyways and take back sentry. Anyone wanting sentry over void is an idiot.

DNA3000

BitterSteel wrote: »

I wasn’t affected by this issue whatsoever, I did not open a sentry or void crystal. But what if someone had say 60k shards and they opened 2 of the wrong crystal and got sentry twice. Believing that this sentry was in the sub feature pool and not (as it was) the featured champ, they opened two more crystals and got random champions.

Had the correct crystal been put out, they would have got the featured champ, void, and then stopped after duping him, but because the got sentry they opened extra crystals and wasted shards.

I think I remember reading about someome in this or a similar situation.

Such a situation is theoretically possible, but there's no way to know if this happened with certainty, because there's no way to prove intent, and given the short timeframes involved the odds of pulling Sentry more than twice are such that I believe only a handful of people are statistically likely to have this result (even if the average person opened six crystals during the period when the wrong crystal was up, statistically speaking only one in six would have opened three or more Sentry champs, and the real number is almost certainly lower than that).

No solution is perfect, especially when the problem alters people's behaviors. But at the moment I can't think of a practical way to address the situation above in a perfect way.