Proposal of a new enhanced practice mode

They already kind of have a server for this for CCP folk.

It shouldn’t be hard to make it available to everyone.

Introducing a new enhanced practice mode behind pay per design/fight model.

Idea is, let the player select a node combination, defender, defender health options and the attacker count. Based on all the s lections, introduce a price for the player to purchase the fight. Thus user can practice a specific fight if they want to.

@DNA3000 would like to know your thought on this.

How much would this impact the game economy?

The economic impact would be whatever you design it to be, but in my opinion this is moot because this is extremely unlikely to happen. Eliminating all the practical challenges of implementing such a thing, there’s a fundamental barrier. “Practice” that is customizable in that way is either a) useless and thus not worth spending developer time to implement, or b) useful, which means it trivializes actual content.

I suspect you’re thinking along the lines of it’s okay to trivialize content if it’s monetized, but that doesn’t really address the problem. If you magically set the monetization so it just happens to exactly match revenue lost to making the content simpler, what have you gained? You’ve spent all that time to go back to the starting line, only now everyone thinks your content is trivial. There has to be some way in which this makes the game better overall - a lot better - to make it worth it, and I don’t see what that is at the moment.

Imagine you’re a developer working for Kabam. Over to your left is one of the content designers. Every month you see him struggle to make content, constantly being criticized for making the content too easy and boring and *also* making the content too difficult and a cash grab. And you say hey there, guess what I want to work on? That content you’re working on, *I’m* going to work on a mode where people can create practice fights similar to what you’re designing and let them practice against it. And then he crushes your skull with a cubicle divider. I’m guessing you would probably reconsider your design choices.

There’s a million things to work on, and if the game lasts another thousand years Kabam will never get to them all. I suspect none of the developers want to voluntarily work on something that will make their coworkers jobs harder when there are lots of other options available. So it would be hard to find an internal Kabam advocate to take up the cause.

Plus, there’s one other really good reason to not do this, and it’s something we can easily extrapolate from history of the game. If practice mode exists and it is monetized, people will start saying the content was explicitly designed to force people to use practice mode to get good enough to beat it, making it a cash grab. We have people in this playerbase who blame Kabam for inventing solar fusion as a cash grab for sunscreen sales.

@DNA3000 Amazing poster and smartest person I’ve come across online.

Have to disagree here.

Monetary issues are a thing. Didn’t you post how much money they made with Banquet?

Having a practice area similar to what CCP has right now wouldn’t break anything would it?

It sounds like you’re saying that CCP already has a big advantage, is that correct?

It sounds like you’re saying that CCP already has a big advantage, is that correct?

They do. And that doesn't mean everyone else should gain that advantage. It could "trivialize" the game.

Not sure what you mean. How would it “trivialize” the game?

So people getting YouTube views should get an advantage?

Not sure about that.

Furrymoosen

Not sure what you mean. How would it “trivialize” the game?

So people getting YouTube views should get an advantage?

Not sure about that.

Define advantage. They get to test out new champs, but they don't get them in their own accounts. They have access to testing fighting certain champs (without nodes) at a level the rest of us don't, but they don't get unlimited access to challenging content that we don't have. They learned Ares at the same time we did, but they can go fight a 10m health Arcade with whoever they want. It doesn't really give them an advantage, nor does it really trivialize content. The CCP drives player engagement through their media channels. It's an advantage for the game for a small handful of players with audiences to have particular privileges.

What OP is asking risks trivializing content. Building whatever fight you want, even with a cost, without having to work through a path to get there would ultimately make tough content easier. Unlimited practice without the cost of energy, revives and the frustration of a fight not going well trivializes content. The CCP beta is a completely different thing.

You want the Webster’s definition?

You get to practice non-stop against tough champs because people watch your YouTube channel?

How is this not an advantage?

Herbal_Taxman

Not sure what you mean. How would it “trivialize” the game?

So people getting YouTube views should get an advantage?

Not sure about that.
Define advantage. They get to test out new champs, but they don't get them in their own accounts. They have access to testing fighting certain champs (without nodes) at a level the rest of us don't, but they don't get unlimited access to challenging content that we don't have. They learned Ares at the same time we did, but they can go fight a 10m health Arcade with whoever they want. It doesn't really give them an advantage, nor does it really trivialize content. The CCP drives player engagement through their media channels. It's an advantage for the game for a small handful of players with audiences to have particular privileges.

What OP is asking risks trivializing content. Building whatever fight you want, even with a cost, without having to work through a path to get there would ultimately make tough content easier. Unlimited practice without the cost of energy, revives and the frustration of a fight not going well trivializes content. The CCP beta is a completely different thing.

Come on man, it gives them a huge advantage. You don’t think it’s helpful to be able to fight the latest hard defenders at 300k, 500k or 1M health whenever you want, with any champs you want to use?

jimmykammal

@DNA3000 I get the point on how it can be demoralizing for a fight designer and the challenged associated with this. But, let's take the Ares fight of EOP, when someone just wants to get a feel of how this fight actually is and doesn't want to go through the effort of the gruesome path, this could open a window for them.

6.2.2 champions fight needed a couple of tone down for most people to cross the barrier. 6.4 grandmaster fight was one of the most innovative and interactive fights designed. Creating a hard enjoyable fight is good, but if it really takes a good chunk of player base to reach that point after an year or so, doesn't that need to be addressed as well.

Also Every challenging fight always gets associated with the term cash grab.

@Furrymoosen I missed to mention about limiting the number of attempts. Yes, I agree that, unlimited number of attempts for a single design would impact the difficulty level of the actual content. Number of attempts can also be added to the cost of fight design.

[Deleted User]

The classic DNA3000 argument against literally any player request goes something along the lines of “either it’s useless so it’s a waste of time, or it’s too overpowered and Kabam won’t bother with that”

Absolutely no middle ground between those two scenarios can exist, apparently.

JESUSCHRIST

Extra work for Kabam?

That's a no go

@DNA3000 I get the point on how it can be demoralizing for a fight designer and the challenged associated with this. But, let's take the Ares fight of EOP, when someone just wants to get a feel of how this fight actually is and doesn't want to go through the effort of the gruesome path, this could open a window for them.

Yes, and that’s why it won’t likely ever happen.

A huge component of the difficulty of the fight is specifically the fact that there’s a learning curve to it. Practice mode largely eliminates that learning curve, or at least makes it vastly easier to pull off. Do you believe the learning curve of the fight is accidental or incidental? If you remove it with practice mode, the fight would have to become harder to compensate. To put it another way, the fight is largely as hard as it was intended to be. In a world where it would have been easier, it would have been made harder.

When unlimited revive farming was a thing, content was explicitly designed to exist in a world where unlimited revive farming was a thing. End game content where practice mode exists would have to be designed on the presumption that practice mode exists, and the difficulty the content designers would have to come up with would have to be the kind of difficulty for which practice mode would not trivialize it. I can think of only a few ways to do that, all of them awful.

The classic DNA3000 argument against literally any player request goes something along the lines of “either it’s useless so it’s a waste of time, or it’s too overpowered and Kabam won’t bother with that”

Absolutely no middle ground between those two scenarios can exist, apparently.

One: you’re wrong. There’s lots of suggestions I think are worth considering. The ones that aren’t often fail for entirely different reasons. But it is true that a large number of suggestions start with an extremely flawed premise: that it is both good enough for the devs to consider, and yet completely innocuous for them to not have to bother considering the downsides to it.

Two: if you think my arguments are worthless, you can simply ignore them. I don’t design the game, so my opinions only carry weight if they actually make logical sense and resonate with the developers. If they do, it might be worth knowing what they are as a proxy for what the devs might say, but don’t generally say. But if they don’t, then I have no significant impact on your ability to make suggestions.

To put it another way, I only matter if I’m right. If I’m wrong, you should have no worries. In fact, the more wrong I am, the more of my credibility with the devs I destroy with every word I type.

@DNA3000 Amazing poster and smartest person I’ve come across online.

Have to disagree here.

Monetary issues are a thing. Didn’t you post how much money they made with Banquet?

Having a practice area similar to what CCP has right now wouldn’t break anything would it?

It sounds like you’re saying that CCP already has a big advantage, is that correct?

I did not say monetary issues are not a thing. What I said was simply implying a suggestion has no revenue effect is not especially convincing on its own. If you’re going to suggest a game change that comes with monetization, you have to demonstrate that a) the change is worth having regardless, and b) this is an actual way the developers want to make money.

Contrary to popular belief, the devs don’t explicitly make content designed to make money. There’s a presumption that all difficult content will challenge players across a wide spectrum of strength, and among them there will be some small percentage of them that will spend to assist themselves. But I don’t believe the devs make content with some specific revenue goal in mind. That’s not how I believe the devs want to make money, and Kabam Crashed has implied similar sentiment.

I don’t think the devs want to make content and then indirectly monetize it with a practice mode. That would create a distinct penalty for players unable or unwilling to spend on practice mode. While spenders already do have advantages (they can just straight up buy revives, of course) this would be probably a bridge too far.

Again have to disagree.

The server is already there. You just have to open it to more players than CCP.

Add some resources and let people in.

I get maybe the financial part where people might not use unit revives.

But nobody does anymore. Any revives are being used in endgame content and units are being used twice a year.

They’re pretty much forcing hoarding.
Save for July 4 or save for Christmas stuff.

Not sure what you mean. How would it “trivialize” the game?

So people getting YouTube views should get an advantage?

Not sure about that.

Those "YouTubers" are also members of the Content Creator Program, who test champions and provide feedback directly to Kabam. They have a reason to access content like a testing quest. The average player does not.

The classic DNA3000 argument against literally any player request goes something along the lines of “either it’s useless so it’s a waste of time, or it’s too overpowered and Kabam won’t bother with that”

Absolutely no middle ground between those two scenarios can exist, apparently.

Toproller I really don't think you should be the one to say anything like this lol

doctorb

Introducing a new enhanced practice mode behind pay per design/fight model.

Idea is, let the player select a node combination, defender, defender health options and the attacker count. Based on all the s lections, introduce a price for the player to purchase the fight. Thus user can practice a specific fight if they want to.

@DNA3000 would like to know your thought on this.

How much would this impact the game economy?

I like ur idea. I think they should also have 'practice' option for end game contents. It definitely would help against Ares.

You click to begin the content / quest and it gives you option to 'begin content' or enter 'practice' mode.
In practice mode, u click on any enemy and u can fight against them with same level of difficulty and health and all the same nodes / buffs / debuffs.

Not sure what you mean. How would it “trivialize” the game?

So people getting YouTube views should get an advantage?

Not sure about that.
Those "YouTubers" are also members of the Content Creator Program, who test champions and provide feedback directly to Kabam. They have a reason to access content like a testing quest. The average player does not.

Totally understandable.

The CCP seems to me like a failed program. People that are in it don’t use it and people that should be in it can’t get in. (I have no desire to get in it).

Is it not unfair for specific players to have access to a game mode to practice that nobody else does?

Not sure what you mean. How would it “trivialize” the game?

So people getting YouTube views should get an advantage?

Not sure about that.
Those "YouTubers" are also members of the Content Creator Program, who test champions and provide feedback directly to Kabam. They have a reason to access content like a testing quest. The average player does not.
Is it not unfair for specific players to have access to a game mode to practice that nobody else does?

Plenty of others have already responded to this question. You're welcome to read those. I'm not gonna waste my time on that.

Not sure what you mean. How would it “trivialize” the game?

So people getting YouTube views should get an advantage?

Not sure about that.
Those "YouTubers" are also members of the Content Creator Program, who test champions and provide feedback directly to Kabam. They have a reason to access content like a testing quest. The average player does not.
Is it not unfair for specific players to have access to a game mode to practice that nobody else does?
Plenty of others have already responded to this question. You're welcome to read those. I'm not gonna waste my time on that.

Fair response. I’m cool with it.

Ansh_A

I think this idea has merit but without nodes.

We should have access to a practice mode where you can change level and rank of champion (1-7* r1 to r6). Similarly, you can change your opponent with the same control.

If this is too OP, i dont even mind a version where you cannot change your champs but the above control is there for opponent champs. If you think it affects revenue, then new champs (that you dont own) become available a year after they are in the game.

This reduces the impact of RNG. I will take my example - so many people have learned reverse control by fighting Knull. I personally, didnt get a highly ranked knull (5* or above) till very late and had to learn to fight on the actual content where it costs revives. This would reduce the impact of bad rng where a champn with unique abilities is not available in your roster and no having him/her as a 4* from arena doesnt help.

Would be great if we could test champs in practice with synergies too.

the_eradicator

It sounds like you’re saying that CCP already has a big advantage, is that correct?
They do. And that doesn't mean everyone else should gain that advantage. It could "trivialize" the game.

I am sorry but I am unable to understand "trivialize" in this context.
So I get it that you being content creators will get exclusive access to special testing quests etc.

Its very weird you would be against the idea of everyone else gaining the advantage.... I mean Kabam could just add the same test quest for BGs that you use to test new champs as a training quest in the live server. Just adding that would help players a lot. Cos this game does lack the "Training arena/quest" sort of thing. ROL/Abyss etc isn't exactly up to date with what we need to test our new champs on now a days is it ?

the_eradicator

Another suggestion I can give here which can be like a quick solution

When you try to practise against the champions you own, add some options to choose buffs like 100% -300% champion boost to health and attack so it can mimic standard BG level fights or something. Just something..which can help out players.

Adding a "cost" or a unit gate to just test fights seems like a bit too much

WednesdayLength

@DNA3000 I get the point on how it can be demoralizing for a fight designer and the challenged associated with this. But, let's take the Ares fight of EOP, when someone just wants to get a feel of how this fight actually is and doesn't want to go through the effort of the gruesome path, this could open a window for them.

6.2.2 champions fight needed a couple of tone down for most people to cross the barrier. 6.4 grandmaster fight was one of the most innovative and interactive fights designed. Creating a hard enjoyable fight is good, but if it really takes a good chunk of player base to reach that point after an year or so, doesn't that need to be addressed as well.

Also Every challenging fight always gets associated with the term cash grab.

@Furrymoosen I missed to mention about limiting the number of attempts. Yes, I agree that, unlimited number of attempts for a single design would impact the difficulty level of the actual content. Number of attempts can also be added to the cost of fight design.

If you can't get through a relatively difficult path to fight Ares then you're not ready to fight him. Part of the point of this kind of content is preparing resources and planning teams and if you could just practice the fight before even attempting epoch then what's even the point of making a difficult fight

It sounds like you’re saying that CCP already has a big advantage, is that correct?
They do. And that doesn't mean everyone else should gain that advantage. It could "trivialize" the game.
Its very weird you would be against the idea of everyone else gaining the advantage.... I mean Kabam could just add the same test quest for BGs that you use to test new champs

I'm not in the Content Creator Program anymore btw. I left a few months ago.

And why should everyone have these quests? I don't really see a super strong reason for it.