Champion saturation is also hurting the game

there's a lot of general complaints with the game I'm wondering if it's too late to really fix.

1. Champion saturation - there's 300+ champions that cover all the bases. There is no must-have champion anymore and it hasn't been the case for at least 4 years with Herc.

2. If Kabam creates new problems, they need to create new solutions.

3. Battlegrounds - niche problems affect enjoyability (recent examples: serpent, bullseye).

4. Monetization - lots of issues here but players think it's too much and too aggressive.

combine all of the above and you have a community that has all the tools to answer every defender and when kabam decides to make new problems like serpent to address the staleness, we riot, and it also impacts battlegrounds, where niche defenders are autolosses in the beginning, which makes the mode depressing, and if they sell niche solutions we also complain about monetization.

i'm not pretending that kabam is perfect, but we're stuck in a loop of having every tool and refusing new problems and if they make new problems to sell new solutions we call them greedy (they are overly aggressive with offers but that's another thread).

where does this game go from here if we expect the same novel experiences we had from 2018-2020 while also not wanting discomfort? how do they keep battlegrounds fresh without selling new champs because the problems isn't JUST stale rewards.

i have no idea how they revitalize the game but part of that change is on us too. what do you think? is the roster too bloated to fix? are we partly to blame? do they have to go harder of SAGAs and champ tags and gates to be able to create content? do we really understand what motivates us?

Comments

GrabmeMCOC

The next title should be for 100% clear of all act content and should be on a new server. On that server only, BGs Arena and new content should exist alongside the new side quest and event quest. Only 6* and above champions should transfer across, but be reduced to the new 1* and 2* variants.

Outdated champions should be ‘Vaulted’. With compensation for ranked 6* and 7* vaulted champions.

Hard reset.

This clearly will not happen. But it would be incredible.

Gamer

there's a lot of general complaints with the game I'm wondering if it's too late to really fix.

1. Champion saturation - there's 300+ champions that cover all the bases. There is no must-have champion anymore and it hasn't been the case for at least 4 years with Herc.

2. If Kabam creates new problems, they need to create new solutions.

3. Battlegrounds - niche problems affect enjoyability (recent examples: serpent, bullseye).

4. Monetization - lots of issues here but players think it's too much and too aggressive.

combine all of the above and you have a community that has all the tools to answer every defender and when kabam decides to make new problems like serpent to address the staleness, we riot, and it also impacts battlegrounds, where niche defenders are autolosses in the beginning, which makes the mode depressing, and if they sell niche solutions we also complain about monetization.

i'm not pretending that kabam is perfect, but we're stuck in a loop of having every tool and refusing new problems and if they make new problems to sell new solutions we call them greedy (they are overly aggressive with offers but that's another thread).

where does this game go from here if we expect the same novel experiences we had from 2018-2020 while also not wanting discomfort? how do they keep battlegrounds fresh without selling new champs because the problems isn't JUST stale rewards.

i have no idea how they revitalize the game but part of that change is on us too. what do you think? is the roster too bloated to fix? are we partly to blame? do they have to go harder of SAGAs and champ tags and gates to be able to create content? do we really understand what motivates us?

I mean there trying to do many new mechanics like the swipe up ect I getting older every day obviously the game can’t progress without new but go back to SW age where it was just tapping now you have to do something to get a use of the champion that’s for me is the hardest reality.

Daddrieda

The option to sell champion is not there anymore. Wish we still had that. This could give us more control if one felt that there was too many collection of different star rarity. Granted - bad idea as kabam could at any given decision create a content for those lower star rarity. If they wanted they could create a Everest content that required you to have 100% everything else 🤷🏽‍♂️

ThatGuyYouSaw235

The option to sell champion is not there anymore. Wish we still had that. This could give us more control if one felt that there was too many collection of different star rarity. Granted - bad idea as kabam could at any given decision create a content for those lower star rarity. If they wanted they could create a Everest content that required you to have 100% everything else 🤷🏽‍♂️

selling champions severely disadvantaged you and it was removed for that reason

unknown

This content has been removed.

Joker1976

I i think it’s a clouded assumption that battlegrounds is (niche) solely because of difficult defenders or intimidating opponents with stacked decks.
The game mode itself is very slow and drawn out…with a tedious rollout.
Matchmaking timers / champion selection timers/ long matches themselves etc.
All in,..the whole process can easily take close to 10 minutes with nothing to show for a loss except wasted time.
It’s a misconception that some players wait until late in the season to pound on smaller accounts when in reality it is to avoid a waste in time investment.
Time is very valuable,..and some have more than others.
Battlegrounds is a very big time investment considering all the other areas to investment in the game.

Daddrieda

The option to sell champion is not there anymore. Wish we still had that. This could give us more control if one felt that there was too many collection of different star rarity. Granted - bad idea as kabam could at any given decision create a content for those lower star rarity. If they wanted they could create a Everest content that required you to have 100% everything else 🤷🏽‍♂️
selling champions severely disadvantaged you and it was removed for that reason

Maybe, but it was your choice so that’s the difference I think.

TotemCorruption

New champs is a huge part of what keeps the game going.
Yes, there are over 300, but as time passes, a lot of them become irrelevant.
New champs like Jean and Okoye and Bastion generate tones of excitement and revenue; but you're saying don't release them because we already have enough champs, even though most of them are pretty useless?
It's not like I have to learn Hawkeye's or Venom Duck's mechanics and these new champs are getting in the way of that.

BigBlueOx

Maybe… or maybe attacker power levels need a to be challenged like Seatin pointed out in his take on this.

While defenders make this game interesting and give us new problems… you never play this game as defender. There’s a reason why big yellow numbers and fast fight times sell. The team should lean into that a bit more again.

I also would hazard a guess that Jean and Bastion probably faired far better than other recent releases just on the strength of their popularity. I bet Stormbraker Thor or any other core Avenger variant being released as a Hulkling level attacker would crush in sales too.

startropics

New champs is a huge part of what keeps the game going.
Yes, there are over 300, but as time passes, a lot of them become irrelevant.
New champs like Jean and Okoye and Bastion generate tones of excitement and revenue; but you're saying don't release them because we already have enough champs, even though most of them are pretty useless?
It's not like I have to learn Hawkeye's or Venom Duck's mechanics and these new champs are getting in the way of that.

im not saying don’t release new champs, i’m saying our rosters cover all the problems and we’re resistant to new problems and new problems need to be very niche like serpent to be effective, and this has immediate issues in BGs and we complain about monetization when they sell solutions.

the game is in a tough spot of having too many champs and we’re part of the problem for not wanting change.

BringPopcorn

300+ that cover the bases, and I still say "Oh FFS!!" When I open crystals 😭😤

altavista

1. Champion saturation - there's 300+ champions that cover all the bases. There is no must-have champion anymore and it hasn't been the case for at least 4 years with Herc.

While its true that the sheer number of champions in the game is an issue for differentiation, the truth of it is there there is already an inherent mechanism to account for that - star levels and ranking.

The number of the 300+ relevant champions gets cut down simply by lack of availability at various star levels. There are not 300 7-stars in the game.

While Human Torch may cover all the Mystic bases, as more 7-stars join the fray, and rank levels trend towards 7R3 and 7R4, HT gets 'removed' as a relevant champion as long as he is locked to 6-star and below.

Like you mentioned, new mechanics is a countermeasure against this oversaturation. While I agree that there is an overreaction to new mechanics (Leader having 'severe debuffs' being one champion), by and large the player base understands that new champions have new mechanics. This usually comes with the standard griping of Kabam selling the poison and then the cure, but it is an understood mechanic.

N8buckeye08

I mentioned in a post a while ago that I think the game would be much improved by a Thanos snap.

I’d also say cutting down to one new regular champion a month would probably be worthwhile. Let the design team focus more to avoid both borderline game-breaking champs and champs that serve little to no purpose.

Buttehrs

I mentioned in a post a while ago that I think the game would be much improved by a Thanos snap.

I’d also say cutting down to one new regular champion a month would probably be worthwhile. Let the design team focus more to avoid both borderline game-breaking champs and champs that serve little to no purpose.

One champ a month won't work for a couple reasons. Players cry alot already that most months are slow and boring. Will only one champ that month stop that? The only reason december world with one champ is because there's a ton of content spread through that month. Can you see the team making that much content each and every month? I don't. Finally, if we only got 1 champ a month, imagine how long we'd have to wait for a champ like lizard to appear. It's been 10 years already and he's still not here. We'd be having to wait probably 20 more at that rate.

DNA3000

I mentioned in a post a while ago that I think the game would be much improved by a Thanos snap.

I’d also say cutting down to one new regular champion a month would probably be worthwhile. Let the design team focus more to avoid both borderline game-breaking champs and champs that serve little to no purpose.
One champ a month won't work for a couple reasons. Players cry alot already that most months are slow and boring. Will only one champ that month stop that? The only reason december world with one champ is because there's a ton of content spread through that month. Can you see the team making that much content each and every month? I don't. Finally, if we only got 1 champ a month, imagine how long we'd have to wait for a champ like lizard to appear. It's been 10 years already and he's still not here. We'd be having to wait probably 20 more at that rate.

Mostly, one champ a month wouldn't work because if that happened soon enough there would be no game.

So much of the game is built around the flow of new champions entering the game that it is simply impossible to change that without essentially making a new game. And I'm not talking about the pretty pixels in your phone. I'm more talking about the entire system that surrounds and supports the game. Monetization is build around it. Content releases are built around it. The developer pipeline is primarily centered on it. You are firing a lot of staff and replacing them with who knows what to try to replace all the missing pieces that would get ripped out.

Doing this is like asking McDonalds to switch french fries with pizza. It is not a question of changing the menu. It is a question of where do you put the pizza oven in every McDonalds restaurant. It is a question of what happens to every burger meal that used to come with fries. How do you cook a pizza fast enough to get it to the drive thru. Where do you store stand by pizzas. What happens to all the potato farms McDonalds has contracts with.

To swap fries for pizza, you need to rethink what McDonalds even is. And yes, I know there are a couple special McDonalds that serve pizza.

Usagicassidy

The simple truth is the monthly new champ chase is a huge part of Kabam's revenue.

It pretty much has to keep happening to continue to support the game.

Yes, I would love a 'time off' for them to spend resources on "fixing the game" - but those are also different departments of team members anyways.

startropics

to clarify, when i said champ saturation i meant that we have every tool in each class multiple time over, so there's nothing to chase. i don't want a reduction in new champ releases because that would just kill the game.

Chovner

They should change the new champ release cadence from 2 every month, to 2 every other month+1 every other month. This would ramp down the flood of champs coming into the game, while still giving us a constant flow of new champs monthly (by the end of the year we'd get 18 new champs as opposed to 23 sine they tend to release 1 during December lately). The every other month only have 1 new champ would also theoretically give the art/design teams spare capacity to work on old champ design/kit/animations buffs/changes.

kus234

Vault old champions, rdduce the number.. just love the Idea.. no one cares about those 2018 champs.. just vault them and maybe use them for once a year special events..

startropics

They should change the new champ release cadence from 2 every month, to 2 every other month+1 every other month. This would ramp down the flood of champs coming into the game, while still giving us a constant flow of new champs monthly (by the end of the year we'd get 18 new champs as opposed to 23 sine they tend to release 1 during December lately). The every other month only have 1 new champ would also theoretically give the art/design teams spare capacity to work on old champ design/kit/animations buffs/changes.

maybe i'm wrong, but the problem as i see it isn't the number of champs, it's an oversaturation of solutions in each and every class and not enough new problems which leads to boredom.

the problem with new defensive threats (which we need) is the lack of options (which is the point, otherwise they wouldn't be threats), but it causes immediate backlash in battlegrounds and also accusations of greed and overmonetization.

so kabam is stuck not being able to advance the game without pushback.

Buttehrs

They should change the new champ release cadence from 2 every month, to 2 every other month+1 every other month. This would ramp down the flood of champs coming into the game, while still giving us a constant flow of new champs monthly (by the end of the year we'd get 18 new champs as opposed to 23 sine they tend to release 1 during December lately). The every other month only have 1 new champ would also theoretically give the art/design teams spare capacity to work on old champ design/kit/animations buffs/changes.
maybe i'm wrong, but the problem as i see it isn't the number of champs, it's an oversaturation of solutions in each and every class and not enough new problems which leads to boredom.

the problem with new defensive threats (which we need) is the lack of options (which is the point, otherwise they wouldn't be threats), but it causes immediate backlash in battlegrounds and also accusations of greed and overmonetization.

so kabam is stuck not being able to advance the game without pushback.

Except kabam has been doing that for precisely 10 years. There has ALWAYS been a couple defenders you don't wanna see on a map somewhere. Eventually they release some hard counters to said defender. Then they release the next OP defender. It's just how the cycle goes.

Herbal_Taxman

I think oversaturation is an issue for sure. However, I have also noticed some simplified approaches to champ design in the last six months, which feels like a step in the right direction. Dazzler and Okoye are good examples. Easy to understand, powerful champs. They’ve got 1-2 core mechanics that you can use in multiple ways. Very cool and I hope things continue in this direction as opposed to the Enchantress direction.

BigPoppaCBONE

Hercules wasn't even "must have". Being the best champ in the game by far still didn't make him "must have". Deathless Thanos is about as close to a Hercules-esque "must have" that we've seen in a long time and a lot of people that could have gotten him still noped out on getting him.

Kabam should really do a BTS series on new champ creation or document a champ rework from beginning to end.

I think the problems will come when Kabam forgets that keeping the game fresh doesn't mean making harder and harder content or making champs as a whole weaker to get the same effect. They're already getting close to the tipping point with "I heard you hate nodes, so we put nodes on your nodes". The content can be simple, engaging, and fun where you would want to spend money on the game buying champs and resources, not spending to finish overdone content. I would be out if the progression content got so hard I needed to spend to beat it.

peixemacaco

I agree...

If anyone read Crashed (not Crushed) thread, will see that the game became a monster with a lot of things to do.

Imagine choosing rewards for every summoner class in every game mode, and deal with now 300+ champs.

If they launch 2 per month, we will have 348 by the end of 2027...

Daddrieda

Yes

Dtl7714

Vault old champions, rdduce the number.. just love the Idea.. no one cares about those 2018 champs.. just vault them and maybe use them for once a year special events..

I don't think your tracking which champs qualify as 2018 unless you are just farming disagrees.

startropics

stopping new releases or thanos snapping a chunk of the roster are deadends. the former will quickly kill the game and the latter will kill it but a little slower.

CesarSV7

I actually don't think champion saturation is a problem at all.

First of all we'd have to fully understand the difference between a problem and the consequences originated from that problem which are then often perceived as more problems but are nothing but consequences of the real problem.

In other words, it's a clear example of what I would call a symptom and a disease. You can't cure a disease by removing the symptoms but you can remove the symptoms by curing the disease.

Sadly in my opinion, Kabam is trying to deal with the symptoms instead dealing with the disease which is often a misconseption of what the real problem is. Can things get better that way? Sure it will alleviate the symptoms but the problem will continue to exist.