Do you agree that Hulkling is too strong to be a 7* ?

Yesterday, Karate Mike made the claim that the game is not ready for a 7* Hulkling, which caught me by surprise since Mike is a well reknowned BGs player so is obviously in loop on competitive game modes and that there already are champs more broken than Hulkling in the game.

We have D. Thanos, Serpent, Juggernaut etc.

Hulkling is not a long form content champ unlike for example Kate.

On defense he has a ton more counters nowadays, especially compared to other dual threat champs like Medusa , in fact you don't even need a mystic to fight him.

Champs like Onslaught are not only a potent dual threat but have tremendous use in other games including Long Form Content.

Tigra who ALREADY IS in the crystal is even more broken than Hulkling, as echoed by several on the forums. She's not shut down by as many nodes as Juggernaut, and takes on a myriad of defenders, including Serpent, D Thanos, Thing, Kindred, Red Skull, Zola, Nick Fury, Sentinel.

This Screenshot is against a rank 4 Red SKull so she is literally punching up 2 ranks, and all it took was a single sp2. So just imagine a rank 4 sig 200 where only a single sp2 will nuke even the tankier defenders. Majority of the people living under a cave think she's fine to release since she has a high skill ceiling, but even Trappy said the skill requirement in BGs is significantly less in a video where he agreed shed be too OP as a 7*.

We can all see the retaliation in regards to the exclusive 36k unit paywalled Dark Phoenix, we get that the company needs to make money, so EVEN IF you guys thought Hulkling was too strong to be a 7*, you could have at least put Galan in the crystal and put a different champ in his place for the Titan.

Alternatively, the other option could have been to just put Dark Phoenix within the crystal as if you're only interested in say 3 of the 5 champs, and you manage to pull them early on, you still have to drop loads of units to get her.

July 4 which many argue will benefit a player overall more , already has a 36k spend for the chase champ, so having this one also require 36k just seems like a slap to the face. At least, Hulkling could have made the spend more worth it as with 6 champs in the crystal, now youll be more inclined to spend more units and end up closer to the 36k for Phoenix . Especially since Apoc won't be starting with extra charges in BGs

Comments

Bugmat78

They be tripping - release the 7* cosmics!

Jcarlos_2902

All champions can be 7*, except Magik and quake

Toyota_2015

I think the actual reason they didn't go for it is because they knew if Hulkling was locked behind that final milestone (and they absolutely wanted to lock one champ behind that final milestone to make even more money of course) there would've been a lot backlash so instead they just added a champ we knew nothing about until the spotlight came out which softened the blow

One thing I will say is that this argument makes absolutely no sense. If Kabam wanted to, they could’ve just put Hulkling in the crystal AND locked Dark Phoenix behind the milestones like she currently is. If Hulkling was in the crystal there would obviously be a much higher incentive to invest in this event, and Kabam would make more money. They didn’t exclude him from this event for money reasons, they excluded him because they genuinely believe he’s too powerful to release as a 7* at the moment. That statement itself is debatable, which is what this whole thread is for, but the “they didn’t put Hulkling in the crystal because they wanted to paywall Dark Phoenix” argument doesn’t really work.

BigBlueOx

Idk if hulking is the strongest but tigra , who has better damage and utility than hulking, has a high skill cap and not the favourite for everyone, especially not much useful for uru gang.

FAM is not as good as hulking on attack. I think it's the versatility and SIMPLICITY of hulking in attack. He is not broken by any means, especially not when dthanos is a 7*, but he is so simple to use and is a lot more versatile.

You definitely would have seen more hulking compared to fam, tigra and even cgr in bg decks, and even when 6* went obsolete for bgs, hulking is easily one of the last standing when days of tigra(in low to mid tiers) and FAM were long gone for most endgame players. That must be saying something right?

Although I personally don't think any champ is BROKEN except cgr in a bg pov rn.
Skill cap is irrelevant here, it's like saying Quake has a high skill cap so she's not as good, just doesn't make sense. Tigra in the right hands is faster than Hulkling for basically any matchup without neutralize or rupture immunity.

As for FAM, he may not be as fast as Hulkling but he can take basically all the current meta defenders Hulkling can take just not in 35 secs. So, while Hulkling is to some extent better for short fights, the difference isn't big enough for them to just go "oh no we're definitely not ready for that".

I still have both Hulkling and FAM 6* in my deck myself, I can't really see power levels being that different and far apart that they couldn't add both.
I don’t have a super strong opinion on Hulkling being too strong to be a 7star… but I don’t see how we can say that skill ask of a kit is irrelevant either. Out of all the champs at the very top of their classes Hulkling has the highest utility AND the lowest skill ask when maximizing his damage. That combination of utility and damage is why I can understand Kabam’s position on him specifically… not saying I share that opinion but I understand

That said, I don’t think the same applies to CGR. There’s a much higher skill ask in general and there’s a lot that can disturb his optimal “flow” effectively neutering the character. He may be slightly easier to use than Tigra, but more messed with him. I think he’s more likely to come first.
I worded my comment wrong, it's not that it's entirely irrelevant I just don't think that that makes a champ worse if that makes sense. The abilities and the potential are both there regardless.

As for ease of use, I would agree with that if Juggs and Red Guardian weren't already in the game as 7*, but they are so I can't really agree with that either.

I don't know what their true reasons are for not adding Hulkling but I find it hard to believe they genuinely think he'd be that strong at this point. Look at Red Guardian doing 550k HPs in six hits or Juggs doing fights in 20 seconds, it's absurd to even think Hulkling would do more harm than good to the game when champs like that are already 7*. You could try to argue the dual threat potential for which the other two obviously suck but as it stands, Hulkling is not even that good of a defender anymore because of all the mystic attackers that melt anything with a lot of buffs (Chavez, Kushala etc) these days.
Just my opinion here, but it’s not just the damage output when looking at Hulkling, his utility is even more insane. He’s immune to shock, poison, power drain, burn and steal. He reduces healblock duration and his immunities can be used to fuel his in a kit. In addition to that when converting his charges he gains power. As a result there’s no easy way to turn off his kit without punishing any champ that uses buffs. Right now he’s one of the toughest toughest defenders in the Battlegrounds as a 6star as he’s constantly going indestructible and stalling either his power bar.

Conversely, both Red G and Juggy have really no defensive value and the game team has access to fairly easy off buttons that don’t hinder 60% of the other champions in the game.

Now again, I’m not arguing that he’s too OP, but I can even foresee a reality where Hercules comes out as a 7star first now as even he’s easier to turn off than Hulkling now that we have champs that limit burst damage. And Hulkling hits harder, faster, and has far far more utility
You are not arguing hes too OP but still providing them reasons if they were to cherrypick this thread and quote the 1 person supporting them. But your analysis is missing a chunk, I will try to go in depth.

1) he is nowhere near the speed of Juggs, Red Guardian, Thanos, Sparky, Tigra etc.
Did you see my screenshot and the one from @HungaryHippo ? Tigra is punching up 2 ranks and still destroying red skull (a champion that Hulkling has class advantage for)

2) those champs i listed above are just as easy to play as him except for Tigra, who i wont repeat all the details but the skill requirement is less in BGs.go look at trappys vid on her being too OP to be released as 7*

3) you act like hes a top defender when almost every mystic counters? Hes no serpent and not even a medusa. Medusa needs a lot more specific counters.

4) Also as i mentioned above, you dont even need a mystic counter. Crossbones works, so does black cat or titania. Im sure theres more

5) deathless thanos is a far better dual threat and brain dead easy to play, hello?

6) hulkling has no long form content use. FAM who is a top tech dual threat and similar to Tigra and Hulkling in the crystal, does.

7) onslaught is another top dual threat that has several uses in every game mode including long form content.

Sorry, I was too brief on the defender point. I am only talking about this exact moment in time in BGs in the current GC indestructible meta. If you don’t have a counter, good luck, and a majority of the usual ones don’t work. So it’s not worth picking apart each of the straw man you built up around that one accurate statement not being specific enough.

Also worth noting is this meta is super charging Tigra on attack giving her extra buffs to convert into extra damage. But sure I’m the cherry picker.

Onslaught is a great call out on a utility monster. But his damage has a far stricter rotation than hit the block 3 times. He’s also prey to power manipulation and can’t get around things like Polka Dot power the way Hulkling can, so even his utility falls below where Hulklings is.

And by pointing out his amazing kit I’m not proclaiming any of it makes him too OP. I don’t think any champ is too OP with the exception of maybe Quake.

TheMostHated1

These were exactly my thoughts, saying the game is not ready then proceeding to add Tigra and FAM is absolutely laughable lol I think the actual reason they didn't go for it is because they knew if Hulkling was locked behind that final milestone (and they absolutely wanted to lock one champ behind that final milestone to make even more money of course) there would've been a lot backlash so instead they just added a champ we knew nothing about until the spotlight came out which softened the blow, as seen in the other thread where most people seem to be completely fine with them locking a 4.5/5 defender behind one of the highest paywalls of the year, bummer but I'm probably going to have to spend 💀

The reason they didn’t go for it because they genuinely believe that hulkling is too powerful to be a 7 star right now, which (in my opinion) is straight up false

Buttehrs

All champions can be 7*, except Magik and quake

Even this is wrong now. 7* magik is coming, albeit with a rework.

SirGamesBond

There you go... I supported your thread.
Let's see if that changes anything. Lol

Csutton

Absolutely not. We have serpent… nuff said right there and then! Not to mention hyp, Medusa, deathless thanos, Adam, and knull. Such a gaslight

ItsClobberinTime

Idk if hulking is the strongest but tigra , who has better damage and utility than hulking, has a high skill cap and not the favourite for everyone, especially not much useful for uru gang.

FAM is not as good as hulking on attack. I think it's the versatility and SIMPLICITY of hulking in attack. He is not broken by any means, especially not when dthanos is a 7*, but he is so simple to use and is a lot more versatile.

You definitely would have seen more hulking compared to fam, tigra and even cgr in bg decks, and even when 6* went obsolete for bgs, hulking is easily one of the last standing when days of tigra(in low to mid tiers) and FAM were long gone for most endgame players. That must be saying something right?

Although I personally don't think any champ is BROKEN except cgr in a bg pov rn.
Skill cap is irrelevant here, it's like saying Quake has a high skill cap so she's not as good, just doesn't make sense. Tigra in the right hands is faster than Hulkling for basically any matchup without neutralize or rupture immunity.

As for FAM, he may not be as fast as Hulkling but he can take basically all the current meta defenders Hulkling can take just not in 35 secs. So, while Hulkling is to some extent better for short fights, the difference isn't big enough for them to just go "oh no we're definitely not ready for that".

I still have both Hulkling and FAM 6* in my deck myself, I can't really see power levels being that different and far apart that they couldn't add both.
I don’t have a super strong opinion on Hulkling being too strong to be a 7star… but I don’t see how we can say that skill ask of a kit is irrelevant either. Out of all the champs at the very top of their classes Hulkling has the highest utility AND the lowest skill ask when maximizing his damage. That combination of utility and damage is why I can understand Kabam’s position on him specifically… not saying I share that opinion but I understand

That said, I don’t think the same applies to CGR. There’s a much higher skill ask in general and there’s a lot that can disturb his optimal “flow” effectively neutering the character. He may be slightly easier to use than Tigra, but more messed with him. I think he’s more likely to come first.
I worded my comment wrong, it's not that it's entirely irrelevant I just don't think that that makes a champ worse if that makes sense. The abilities and the potential are both there regardless.

As for ease of use, I would agree with that if Juggs and Red Guardian weren't already in the game as 7*, but they are so I can't really agree with that either.

I don't know what their true reasons are for not adding Hulkling but I find it hard to believe they genuinely think he'd be that strong at this point. Look at Red Guardian doing 550k HPs in six hits or Juggs doing fights in 20 seconds, it's absurd to even think Hulkling would do more harm than good to the game when champs like that are already 7*. You could try to argue the dual threat potential for which the other two obviously suck but as it stands, Hulkling is not even that good of a defender anymore because of all the mystic attackers that melt anything with a lot of buffs (Chavez, Kushala etc) these days.
Just my opinion here, but it’s not just the damage output when looking at Hulkling, his utility is even more insane. He’s immune to shock, poison, power drain, burn and steal. He reduces healblock duration and his immunities can be used to fuel his in a kit. In addition to that when converting his charges he gains power. As a result there’s no easy way to turn off his kit without punishing any champ that uses buffs. Right now he’s one of the toughest toughest defenders in the Battlegrounds as a 6star as he’s constantly going indestructible and stalling either his power bar.

Conversely, both Red G and Juggy have really no defensive value and the game team has access to fairly easy off buttons that don’t hinder 60% of the other champions in the game.

Now again, I’m not arguing that he’s too OP, but I can even foresee a reality where Hercules comes out as a 7star first now as even he’s easier to turn off than Hulkling now that we have champs that limit burst damage. And Hulkling hits harder, faster, and has far far more utility

I disagree with that personally, Hulkling is far from being the toughest defender these days. I've nuked him down with 7* Hulk Sunspot Venom Gentle and Nefaria, you don't necessarily need a counter these days you simply need to time your main source of damage with his indestructible properly and that's it, and if you do want a counter there's a ton of mystics already available as 7* that make him lightwork as well. FAM defensively has fewer counters than Hulkling does and as I stated already he can basically take all the fights Hulkling can and more.
He can take Photon, Onslaught, Bullseye, Red Skull, Arcade but unlike Hulkling he can also handle a lot of mystic defenders with zero issues like Abs Enchantress and Kindred which are a terrible idea with Hulkling. I would agree with you if FAM and Tigra weren't in the crystal but they are, I've given my reasons for FAM, Tigra doesn't really need an explanation cause we all know how strong she is in the right hands.

I get where you're going with the utility part, but with Galan already coming in I don't think any of that utility is enough to make Hulkling broken. Galan ramps even faster than Hulkling when those immunities trigger allowing him to finish fights in 15-20 seconds so I don't think the quick ramp when his utility triggers really makes Hulkling that broken when Galan is already being released with most of those immunities allowing him to ramp insanely fast.

BeastDad

But serpent was perfectly fine 🙄

Jack2634

ngl. About red skull fight with tigra. it is a very free matchup for tigra, arguably one of the best as well, because his sp1 animation is relatively easy to heavy punish. Many annoying defenders wont give you that much of a window to do it

Chief_Wiggum

Hulking at 7r4 will destroy any defender that'd doesn't mitigate damage with safeguard or with immortality or buff prevention.. Almost Nothing in tech/mutant/skill/science class is safe. Even some Mystics and most cosmics.

Every deck will have one.. Instantly devaluing a bunch of champions because Hulkling.

ItsClobberinTime

Hulking at 7r4 will destroy any defender that'd doesn't mitigate damage with safeguard or with immortality or buff prevention.. Almost Nothing in tech/mutant/skill/science class is safe. Even some Mystics and most cosmics.

Every deck will have one.. Instantly devaluing a bunch of champions because Hulkling.

FAM does that too and he's in it lmao

ButteredPopcorn8008

It’s crazy we can have serpent as a defender but hulkling is too much as an attacker lol

Searmenis

Cosmic class pool of champions that are not 7 stars yet, has a big gap at the moment: There s only 3 really OP champions remaining, and the rest are low mid to bad tier. Kabam will need them for future "special crystals" or $ milestones.
And they released Galan in the TItan already, who, I never played with him myself, but, wasn't a long time discussion on who s better, Galan or Hulkling when they came out? Aren't on the same OP level?

ItsClobberinTime

Cosmic class pool of champions that are not 7 stars yet, has a big gap at the moment: There s only 3 really OP champions remaining, and the rest are low mid to bad tier. Kabam will need them for future "special crystals" or $ milestones.
And they released Galan in the TItan already, who, I never played with him myself, but, wasn't a long time discussion on who s better, Galan or Hulkling when they came out? Aren't on the same OP level?

They have always been interchangeable yes, it really all comes down to which one you like using more cause both counter the same stuff for the most part but each one can also take fights the other can't take.

laserjohn26

Is he too strong compared to others? No. Tigra is stronger and more versatile offensively which is important. Hulkings defensive capabilities have nothing to do with it.

Tigra is stronger with optimat play, however people who can get everything out of her are going to finish celestial and do the hardest content virtually itemless anyway. (Fintech and similar skill players). The vast majority of players can't effectively use tigra like that.

Now hulking will trivialize so many fights. In high tier war a r6 hulking makes defenders like onslaught simple. A hulking of equal star and rank makes onslaught look like winter soldier on defense, For the vast majority of players who have played for any length of time.

To recap, high skill op attackers whose ceiling is higher is fine. Easy to use champs whose ceiling is slightly lower, but accessible to the vast majority of the player base, is OP in kabaams eyes.

Smeagz23

To me, no champion but quake and MAYBE herc is too op to be a 7 star. All kabam has to do is make counters in the form of champions and/or nodes (which they do and have done) and it makes champions less useful. I feel like hulkling is very balanced. I think scorp is very balanced too and should have been our science champion over the miss of the crystal, ibom.

HungaryHippo

Idk if hulking is the strongest but tigra , who has better damage and utility than hulking, has a high skill cap and not the favourite for everyone, especially not much useful for uru gang.

FAM is not as good as hulking on attack. I think it's the versatility and SIMPLICITY of hulking in attack. He is not broken by any means, especially not when dthanos is a 7*, but he is so simple to use and is a lot more versatile.

You definitely would have seen more hulking compared to fam, tigra and even cgr in bg decks, and even when 6* went obsolete for bgs, hulking is easily one of the last standing when days of tigra(in low to mid tiers) and FAM were long gone for most endgame players. That must be saying something right?

Although I personally don't think any champ is BROKEN except cgr in a bg pov rn.
Skill cap is irrelevant here, it's like saying Quake has a high skill cap so she's not as good, just doesn't make sense. Tigra in the right hands is faster than Hulkling for basically any matchup without neutralize or rupture immunity.

As for FAM, he may not be as fast as Hulkling but he can take basically all the current meta defenders Hulkling can take just not in 35 secs. So, while Hulkling is to some extent better for short fights, the difference isn't big enough for them to just go "oh no we're definitely not ready for that".

I still have both Hulkling and FAM 6* in my deck myself, I can't really see power levels being that different and far apart that they couldn't add both.
I don’t have a super strong opinion on Hulkling being too strong to be a 7star… but I don’t see how we can say that skill ask of a kit is irrelevant either. Out of all the champs at the very top of their classes Hulkling has the highest utility AND the lowest skill ask when maximizing his damage. That combination of utility and damage is why I can understand Kabam’s position on him specifically… not saying I share that opinion but I understand

That said, I don’t think the same applies to CGR. There’s a much higher skill ask in general and there’s a lot that can disturb his optimal “flow” effectively neutering the character. He may be slightly easier to use than Tigra, but more messed with him. I think he’s more likely to come first.
I worded my comment wrong, it's not that it's entirely irrelevant I just don't think that that makes a champ worse if that makes sense. The abilities and the potential are both there regardless.

As for ease of use, I would agree with that if Juggs and Red Guardian weren't already in the game as 7*, but they are so I can't really agree with that either.

I don't know what their true reasons are for not adding Hulkling but I find it hard to believe they genuinely think he'd be that strong at this point. Look at Red Guardian doing 550k HPs in six hits or Juggs doing fights in 20 seconds, it's absurd to even think Hulkling would do more harm than good to the game when champs like that are already 7*. You could try to argue the dual threat potential for which the other two obviously suck but as it stands, Hulkling is not even that good of a defender anymore because of all the mystic attackers that melt anything with a lot of buffs (Chavez, Kushala etc) these days.
Just my opinion here, but it’s not just the damage output when looking at Hulkling, his utility is even more insane. He’s immune to shock, poison, power drain, burn and steal. He reduces healblock duration and his immunities can be used to fuel his in a kit. In addition to that when converting his charges he gains power. As a result there’s no easy way to turn off his kit without punishing any champ that uses buffs. Right now he’s one of the toughest toughest defenders in the Battlegrounds as a 6star as he’s constantly going indestructible and stalling either his power bar.

Conversely, both Red G and Juggy have really no defensive value and the game team has access to fairly easy off buttons that don’t hinder 60% of the other champions in the game.

Now again, I’m not arguing that he’s too OP, but I can even foresee a reality where Hercules comes out as a 7star first now as even he’s easier to turn off than Hulkling now that we have champs that limit burst damage. And Hulkling hits harder, faster, and has far far more utility
You are not arguing hes too OP but still providing them reasons if they were to cherrypick this thread and quote the 1 person supporting them. But your analysis is missing a chunk, I will try to go in depth.

1) he is nowhere near the speed of Juggs, Red Guardian, Thanos, Sparky, Tigra etc.
Did you see my screenshot and the one from @HungaryHippo ? Tigra is punching up 2 ranks and still destroying red skull (a champion that Hulkling has class advantage for)

2) those champs i listed above are just as easy to play as him except for Tigra, who i wont repeat all the details but the skill requirement is less in BGs.go look at trappys vid on her being too OP to be released as 7*

3) you act like hes a top defender when almost every mystic counters? Hes no serpent and not even a medusa. Medusa needs a lot more specific counters.

4) Also as i mentioned above, you dont even need a mystic counter. Crossbones works, so does black cat or titania. Im sure theres more

5) deathless thanos is a far better dual threat and brain dead easy to play, hello?

6) hulkling has no long form content use. FAM who is a top tech dual threat and similar to Tigra and Hulkling in the crystal, does.

7) onslaught is another top dual threat that has several uses in every game mode including long form content.
Sorry, I was too brief on the defender point. I am only talking about this exact moment in time in BGs in the current GC indestructible meta. If you don’t have a counter, good luck, and a majority of the usual ones don’t work. So it’s not worth picking apart each of the straw man you built up around that one accurate statement not being specific enough.

Also worth noting is this meta is super charging Tigra on attack giving her extra buffs to convert into extra damage. But sure I’m the cherry picker.

Onslaught is a great call out on a utility monster. But his damage has a far stricter rotation than hit the block 3 times. He’s also prey to power manipulation and can’t get around things like Polka Dot power the way Hulkling can, so even his utility falls below where Hulklings is.

And by pointing out his amazing kit I’m not proclaiming any of it makes him too OP. I don’t think any champ is too OP with the exception of maybe Quake.

Disagree. Tigra has been one of my favorite Red Skull counters for ages and the results are reproducible in most other metas.

BigBlueOx

Idk if hulking is the strongest but tigra , who has better damage and utility than hulking, has a high skill cap and not the favourite for everyone, especially not much useful for uru gang.

FAM is not as good as hulking on attack. I think it's the versatility and SIMPLICITY of hulking in attack. He is not broken by any means, especially not when dthanos is a 7*, but he is so simple to use and is a lot more versatile.

You definitely would have seen more hulking compared to fam, tigra and even cgr in bg decks, and even when 6* went obsolete for bgs, hulking is easily one of the last standing when days of tigra(in low to mid tiers) and FAM were long gone for most endgame players. That must be saying something right?

Although I personally don't think any champ is BROKEN except cgr in a bg pov rn.
Skill cap is irrelevant here, it's like saying Quake has a high skill cap so she's not as good, just doesn't make sense. Tigra in the right hands is faster than Hulkling for basically any matchup without neutralize or rupture immunity.

As for FAM, he may not be as fast as Hulkling but he can take basically all the current meta defenders Hulkling can take just not in 35 secs. So, while Hulkling is to some extent better for short fights, the difference isn't big enough for them to just go "oh no we're definitely not ready for that".

I still have both Hulkling and FAM 6* in my deck myself, I can't really see power levels being that different and far apart that they couldn't add both.
I don’t have a super strong opinion on Hulkling being too strong to be a 7star… but I don’t see how we can say that skill ask of a kit is irrelevant either. Out of all the champs at the very top of their classes Hulkling has the highest utility AND the lowest skill ask when maximizing his damage. That combination of utility and damage is why I can understand Kabam’s position on him specifically… not saying I share that opinion but I understand

That said, I don’t think the same applies to CGR. There’s a much higher skill ask in general and there’s a lot that can disturb his optimal “flow” effectively neutering the character. He may be slightly easier to use than Tigra, but more messed with him. I think he’s more likely to come first.
I worded my comment wrong, it's not that it's entirely irrelevant I just don't think that that makes a champ worse if that makes sense. The abilities and the potential are both there regardless.

As for ease of use, I would agree with that if Juggs and Red Guardian weren't already in the game as 7*, but they are so I can't really agree with that either.

I don't know what their true reasons are for not adding Hulkling but I find it hard to believe they genuinely think he'd be that strong at this point. Look at Red Guardian doing 550k HPs in six hits or Juggs doing fights in 20 seconds, it's absurd to even think Hulkling would do more harm than good to the game when champs like that are already 7*. You could try to argue the dual threat potential for which the other two obviously suck but as it stands, Hulkling is not even that good of a defender anymore because of all the mystic attackers that melt anything with a lot of buffs (Chavez, Kushala etc) these days.
Just my opinion here, but it’s not just the damage output when looking at Hulkling, his utility is even more insane. He’s immune to shock, poison, power drain, burn and steal. He reduces healblock duration and his immunities can be used to fuel his in a kit. In addition to that when converting his charges he gains power. As a result there’s no easy way to turn off his kit without punishing any champ that uses buffs. Right now he’s one of the toughest toughest defenders in the Battlegrounds as a 6star as he’s constantly going indestructible and stalling either his power bar.

Conversely, both Red G and Juggy have really no defensive value and the game team has access to fairly easy off buttons that don’t hinder 60% of the other champions in the game.

Now again, I’m not arguing that he’s too OP, but I can even foresee a reality where Hercules comes out as a 7star first now as even he’s easier to turn off than Hulkling now that we have champs that limit burst damage. And Hulkling hits harder, faster, and has far far more utility
You are not arguing hes too OP but still providing them reasons if they were to cherrypick this thread and quote the 1 person supporting them. But your analysis is missing a chunk, I will try to go in depth.

1) he is nowhere near the speed of Juggs, Red Guardian, Thanos, Sparky, Tigra etc.
Did you see my screenshot and the one from @HungaryHippo ? Tigra is punching up 2 ranks and still destroying red skull (a champion that Hulkling has class advantage for)

2) those champs i listed above are just as easy to play as him except for Tigra, who i wont repeat all the details but the skill requirement is less in BGs.go look at trappys vid on her being too OP to be released as 7*

3) you act like hes a top defender when almost every mystic counters? Hes no serpent and not even a medusa. Medusa needs a lot more specific counters.

4) Also as i mentioned above, you dont even need a mystic counter. Crossbones works, so does black cat or titania. Im sure theres more

5) deathless thanos is a far better dual threat and brain dead easy to play, hello?

6) hulkling has no long form content use. FAM who is a top tech dual threat and similar to Tigra and Hulkling in the crystal, does.

7) onslaught is another top dual threat that has several uses in every game mode including long form content.
Sorry, I was too brief on the defender point. I am only talking about this exact moment in time in BGs in the current GC indestructible meta. If you don’t have a counter, good luck, and a majority of the usual ones don’t work. So it’s not worth picking apart each of the straw man you built up around that one accurate statement not being specific enough.

Also worth noting is this meta is super charging Tigra on attack giving her extra buffs to convert into extra damage. But sure I’m the cherry picker.

Onslaught is a great call out on a utility monster. But his damage has a far stricter rotation than hit the block 3 times. He’s also prey to power manipulation and can’t get around things like Polka Dot power the way Hulkling can, so even his utility falls below where Hulklings is.

And by pointing out his amazing kit I’m not proclaiming any of it makes him too OP. I don’t think any champ is too OP with the exception of maybe Quake.
Disagree. Tigra has been one of my favorite Red Skull counters for ages and the results are reproducible in most other metas.

Fair. Like others have stated it’s a matchup that’s definitely on the easier side for her, and really plays into how she delivers damage. I don’t think it’s representative of anything more than ideal circumstances tbh.

HungaryHippo

Idk if hulking is the strongest but tigra , who has better damage and utility than hulking, has a high skill cap and not the favourite for everyone, especially not much useful for uru gang.

FAM is not as good as hulking on attack. I think it's the versatility and SIMPLICITY of hulking in attack. He is not broken by any means, especially not when dthanos is a 7*, but he is so simple to use and is a lot more versatile.

You definitely would have seen more hulking compared to fam, tigra and even cgr in bg decks, and even when 6* went obsolete for bgs, hulking is easily one of the last standing when days of tigra(in low to mid tiers) and FAM were long gone for most endgame players. That must be saying something right?

Although I personally don't think any champ is BROKEN except cgr in a bg pov rn.
Skill cap is irrelevant here, it's like saying Quake has a high skill cap so she's not as good, just doesn't make sense. Tigra in the right hands is faster than Hulkling for basically any matchup without neutralize or rupture immunity.

As for FAM, he may not be as fast as Hulkling but he can take basically all the current meta defenders Hulkling can take just not in 35 secs. So, while Hulkling is to some extent better for short fights, the difference isn't big enough for them to just go "oh no we're definitely not ready for that".

I still have both Hulkling and FAM 6* in my deck myself, I can't really see power levels being that different and far apart that they couldn't add both.
I don’t have a super strong opinion on Hulkling being too strong to be a 7star… but I don’t see how we can say that skill ask of a kit is irrelevant either. Out of all the champs at the very top of their classes Hulkling has the highest utility AND the lowest skill ask when maximizing his damage. That combination of utility and damage is why I can understand Kabam’s position on him specifically… not saying I share that opinion but I understand

That said, I don’t think the same applies to CGR. There’s a much higher skill ask in general and there’s a lot that can disturb his optimal “flow” effectively neutering the character. He may be slightly easier to use than Tigra, but more messed with him. I think he’s more likely to come first.
I worded my comment wrong, it's not that it's entirely irrelevant I just don't think that that makes a champ worse if that makes sense. The abilities and the potential are both there regardless.

As for ease of use, I would agree with that if Juggs and Red Guardian weren't already in the game as 7*, but they are so I can't really agree with that either.

I don't know what their true reasons are for not adding Hulkling but I find it hard to believe they genuinely think he'd be that strong at this point. Look at Red Guardian doing 550k HPs in six hits or Juggs doing fights in 20 seconds, it's absurd to even think Hulkling would do more harm than good to the game when champs like that are already 7*. You could try to argue the dual threat potential for which the other two obviously suck but as it stands, Hulkling is not even that good of a defender anymore because of all the mystic attackers that melt anything with a lot of buffs (Chavez, Kushala etc) these days.
Just my opinion here, but it’s not just the damage output when looking at Hulkling, his utility is even more insane. He’s immune to shock, poison, power drain, burn and steal. He reduces healblock duration and his immunities can be used to fuel his in a kit. In addition to that when converting his charges he gains power. As a result there’s no easy way to turn off his kit without punishing any champ that uses buffs. Right now he’s one of the toughest toughest defenders in the Battlegrounds as a 6star as he’s constantly going indestructible and stalling either his power bar.

Conversely, both Red G and Juggy have really no defensive value and the game team has access to fairly easy off buttons that don’t hinder 60% of the other champions in the game.

Now again, I’m not arguing that he’s too OP, but I can even foresee a reality where Hercules comes out as a 7star first now as even he’s easier to turn off than Hulkling now that we have champs that limit burst damage. And Hulkling hits harder, faster, and has far far more utility
You are not arguing hes too OP but still providing them reasons if they were to cherrypick this thread and quote the 1 person supporting them. But your analysis is missing a chunk, I will try to go in depth.

1) he is nowhere near the speed of Juggs, Red Guardian, Thanos, Sparky, Tigra etc.
Did you see my screenshot and the one from @HungaryHippo ? Tigra is punching up 2 ranks and still destroying red skull (a champion that Hulkling has class advantage for)

2) those champs i listed above are just as easy to play as him except for Tigra, who i wont repeat all the details but the skill requirement is less in BGs.go look at trappys vid on her being too OP to be released as 7*

3) you act like hes a top defender when almost every mystic counters? Hes no serpent and not even a medusa. Medusa needs a lot more specific counters.

4) Also as i mentioned above, you dont even need a mystic counter. Crossbones works, so does black cat or titania. Im sure theres more

5) deathless thanos is a far better dual threat and brain dead easy to play, hello?

6) hulkling has no long form content use. FAM who is a top tech dual threat and similar to Tigra and Hulkling in the crystal, does.

7) onslaught is another top dual threat that has several uses in every game mode including long form content.
Sorry, I was too brief on the defender point. I am only talking about this exact moment in time in BGs in the current GC indestructible meta. If you don’t have a counter, good luck, and a majority of the usual ones don’t work. So it’s not worth picking apart each of the straw man you built up around that one accurate statement not being specific enough.

Also worth noting is this meta is super charging Tigra on attack giving her extra buffs to convert into extra damage. But sure I’m the cherry picker.

Onslaught is a great call out on a utility monster. But his damage has a far stricter rotation than hit the block 3 times. He’s also prey to power manipulation and can’t get around things like Polka Dot power the way Hulkling can, so even his utility falls below where Hulklings is.

And by pointing out his amazing kit I’m not proclaiming any of it makes him too OP. I don’t think any champ is too OP with the exception of maybe Quake.
Disagree. Tigra has been one of my favorite Red Skull counters for ages and the results are reproducible in most other metas.
Fair. Like others have stated it’s a matchup that’s definitely on the easier side for her, and really plays into how she delivers damage. I don’t think it’s representative of anything more than ideal circumstances tbh.

Any fight she takes, ranks don't matter. Other than obvious cosmics have taken all kinds of things like r4 Kindred full health.

Eakomo

it's the same argument they used with quake and magik, herc and cyclops on the opposite side. is the "too strong" being able to do the fights he could do faster, that's the same for all the champs that would just ruin your day facing them in bg or in any other quest

BigBlueOx

Idk if hulking is the strongest but tigra , who has better damage and utility than hulking, has a high skill cap and not the favourite for everyone, especially not much useful for uru gang.

FAM is not as good as hulking on attack. I think it's the versatility and SIMPLICITY of hulking in attack. He is not broken by any means, especially not when dthanos is a 7*, but he is so simple to use and is a lot more versatile.

You definitely would have seen more hulking compared to fam, tigra and even cgr in bg decks, and even when 6* went obsolete for bgs, hulking is easily one of the last standing when days of tigra(in low to mid tiers) and FAM were long gone for most endgame players. That must be saying something right?

Although I personally don't think any champ is BROKEN except cgr in a bg pov rn.
Skill cap is irrelevant here, it's like saying Quake has a high skill cap so she's not as good, just doesn't make sense. Tigra in the right hands is faster than Hulkling for basically any matchup without neutralize or rupture immunity.

As for FAM, he may not be as fast as Hulkling but he can take basically all the current meta defenders Hulkling can take just not in 35 secs. So, while Hulkling is to some extent better for short fights, the difference isn't big enough for them to just go "oh no we're definitely not ready for that".

I still have both Hulkling and FAM 6* in my deck myself, I can't really see power levels being that different and far apart that they couldn't add both.
I don’t have a super strong opinion on Hulkling being too strong to be a 7star… but I don’t see how we can say that skill ask of a kit is irrelevant either. Out of all the champs at the very top of their classes Hulkling has the highest utility AND the lowest skill ask when maximizing his damage. That combination of utility and damage is why I can understand Kabam’s position on him specifically… not saying I share that opinion but I understand

That said, I don’t think the same applies to CGR. There’s a much higher skill ask in general and there’s a lot that can disturb his optimal “flow” effectively neutering the character. He may be slightly easier to use than Tigra, but more messed with him. I think he’s more likely to come first.
I worded my comment wrong, it's not that it's entirely irrelevant I just don't think that that makes a champ worse if that makes sense. The abilities and the potential are both there regardless.

As for ease of use, I would agree with that if Juggs and Red Guardian weren't already in the game as 7*, but they are so I can't really agree with that either.

I don't know what their true reasons are for not adding Hulkling but I find it hard to believe they genuinely think he'd be that strong at this point. Look at Red Guardian doing 550k HPs in six hits or Juggs doing fights in 20 seconds, it's absurd to even think Hulkling would do more harm than good to the game when champs like that are already 7*. You could try to argue the dual threat potential for which the other two obviously suck but as it stands, Hulkling is not even that good of a defender anymore because of all the mystic attackers that melt anything with a lot of buffs (Chavez, Kushala etc) these days.
Just my opinion here, but it’s not just the damage output when looking at Hulkling, his utility is even more insane. He’s immune to shock, poison, power drain, burn and steal. He reduces healblock duration and his immunities can be used to fuel his in a kit. In addition to that when converting his charges he gains power. As a result there’s no easy way to turn off his kit without punishing any champ that uses buffs. Right now he’s one of the toughest toughest defenders in the Battlegrounds as a 6star as he’s constantly going indestructible and stalling either his power bar.

Conversely, both Red G and Juggy have really no defensive value and the game team has access to fairly easy off buttons that don’t hinder 60% of the other champions in the game.

Now again, I’m not arguing that he’s too OP, but I can even foresee a reality where Hercules comes out as a 7star first now as even he’s easier to turn off than Hulkling now that we have champs that limit burst damage. And Hulkling hits harder, faster, and has far far more utility
You are not arguing hes too OP but still providing them reasons if they were to cherrypick this thread and quote the 1 person supporting them. But your analysis is missing a chunk, I will try to go in depth.

1) he is nowhere near the speed of Juggs, Red Guardian, Thanos, Sparky, Tigra etc.
Did you see my screenshot and the one from @HungaryHippo ? Tigra is punching up 2 ranks and still destroying red skull (a champion that Hulkling has class advantage for)

2) those champs i listed above are just as easy to play as him except for Tigra, who i wont repeat all the details but the skill requirement is less in BGs.go look at trappys vid on her being too OP to be released as 7*

3) you act like hes a top defender when almost every mystic counters? Hes no serpent and not even a medusa. Medusa needs a lot more specific counters.

4) Also as i mentioned above, you dont even need a mystic counter. Crossbones works, so does black cat or titania. Im sure theres more

5) deathless thanos is a far better dual threat and brain dead easy to play, hello?

6) hulkling has no long form content use. FAM who is a top tech dual threat and similar to Tigra and Hulkling in the crystal, does.

7) onslaught is another top dual threat that has several uses in every game mode including long form content.
Sorry, I was too brief on the defender point. I am only talking about this exact moment in time in BGs in the current GC indestructible meta. If you don’t have a counter, good luck, and a majority of the usual ones don’t work. So it’s not worth picking apart each of the straw man you built up around that one accurate statement not being specific enough.

Also worth noting is this meta is super charging Tigra on attack giving her extra buffs to convert into extra damage. But sure I’m the cherry picker.

Onslaught is a great call out on a utility monster. But his damage has a far stricter rotation than hit the block 3 times. He’s also prey to power manipulation and can’t get around things like Polka Dot power the way Hulkling can, so even his utility falls below where Hulklings is.

And by pointing out his amazing kit I’m not proclaiming any of it makes him too OP. I don’t think any champ is too OP with the exception of maybe Quake.
Disagree. Tigra has been one of my favorite Red Skull counters for ages and the results are reproducible in most other metas.
Fair. Like others have stated it’s a matchup that’s definitely on the easier side for her, and really plays into how she delivers damage. I don’t think it’s representative of anything more than ideal circumstances tbh.
Any fight she takes, ranks don't matter. Other than obvious cosmics have taken all kinds of things like r4 Kindred full health.

Ranks don’t, buffs and healthpool will. I’m not arguing that Tigra isn’t crazy, she’s bananas, I’m also not arguing damage potential. Tigra has a playstyle demands, AI cooperation and a flow that’s required in order to hit that damage potential. She also has no immunities, can be “shut off” or capped with simple debuffs, or ability accuracy protection nodes that don’t impact a majority of other champions kits.

Simply while being a crazy damage dealer she doesn’t come with the same design challenge potential Hulkling does. I don’t think his damage is why he’s considered “too OP” by Kabam either. But I do think that his utility presents a lot of problems for them. As there’s not many easy ways to interrupt his optimal damage flow that wouldn’t grossly target a huge swatch of the other champions in the game.

altavista

The statement is “At the end of the day, the game isn’t ready for 7 Star Hulkling, Hercules, or Cosmic Ghost Rider - and we didn’t feel like any other yet to be released Cosmic was in the right spot for this Event. ”

All the arguments you are making are regarding the niche mode of BGs. A 7-star Hulkling/CGR/Hercules would trivialize a lot of different game modes. In order to make difficult content, there would constantly have to be nodes to neuters these champions, which would negatively impact a lot of other champions (ie. Adding armor break immunity would negatively affect Silver Surfer as well)

And even if we just stick to BGs, using the argument of “OP outliers exist” is not a valid reason why “more OP outliers should exist.” Its more an argument that outliers should remain outliers as opposed to being the norm.

Average_Desi

The statement is “At the end of the day, the game isn’t ready for 7 Star Hulkling, Hercules, or Cosmic Ghost Rider - and we didn’t feel like any other yet to be released Cosmic was in the right spot for this Event. ”

All the arguments you are making are regarding the niche mode of BGs. A 7-star Hulkling/CGR/Hercules would trivialize a lot of different game modes. In order to make difficult content, there would constantly have to be nodes to neuters these champions, which would negatively impact a lot of other champions (ie. Adding armor break immunity would negatively affect Silver Surfer as well)

And even if we just stick to BGs, using the argument of “OP outliers exist” is not a valid reason why “more OP outliers should exist.” Its more an argument that outliers should remain outliers as opposed to being the norm.

Ughh I remember how every tech boss champ in quests had to have armour break immunity cause of Magento.

GeneralMerce

they should just release Herc and end all the "too powerful" talks

WednesdayLength

To add to your Juggs and Tigra comments, here's another even better example:
https://youtu.be/AygNlkwB_ZQ?si=oXW8lkKT3NBovq7t
550k healthpools in six hits, yet the game is not ready for Hulkling lmao it is for Red Guardian but not for Hulkling, sure.
Mane I didn’t even think about red guardian, like kabam miss me with that “Hulkling is too strong” argument💀
"The game is not ready for Hulkling or CGR"
*Red Guardian casually killing anything in BGs in six heavy attacks* 💀

Hulkling is an insane attacker and a nuts defender if you don't have very specific counters. What defensive value does red guardian have?

Ragnaruk5178

@Polygon well said. And I’m sorry but hulkling is a terrible defender unless you have loads of hits in your combo

DNA3000

The statement is “At the end of the day, the game isn’t ready for 7 Star Hulkling, Hercules, or Cosmic Ghost Rider - and we didn’t feel like any other yet to be released Cosmic was in the right spot for this Event. ”

All the arguments you are making are regarding the niche mode of BGs. A 7-star Hulkling/CGR/Hercules would trivialize a lot of different game modes. In order to make difficult content, there would constantly have to be nodes to neuters these champions, which would negatively impact a lot of other champions (ie. Adding armor break immunity would negatively affect Silver Surfer as well)

And even if we just stick to BGs, using the argument of “OP outliers exist” is not a valid reason why “more OP outliers should exist.” Its more an argument that outliers should remain outliers as opposed to being the norm.

It is worth considering expanding this idea even further. When I hear "the game isn't ready for 7* Hulkling" my first thought doesn't automatically run to "7* Hulking is too powerful for the game" regardless of game mode. That's not the only concern the designers have when deciding whether, or more precisely when to release a champ.

It *might* be that, or it might be something else entirely, or it might be a set of somethings. Champion release and acquisition is probably a much more complex thing than most players realize, because so many things are affected by those decisions across the game that involve multiple stakeholders.

Crashed mentioned he "pushed hard" for the crystal to not contain a champ just because, and to only contain champs that were specifically picked to be good champs to include (by some standard). Crashed is the Live Game Lead for the game. Who was he pushing against?

These decisions aren't made by the Emperor of the Known Universe sitting on their throne. Several different people have different opinions and judgments and these kinds of decisions are often made collaboratively, and if there's a lot of different people in the room making this decision, it is a certainty they all represent different interests in the game. They aren't all voting on whether or not Hulkling is too powerful to be a 7* champ.

ItsClobberinTime

To add to your Juggs and Tigra comments, here's another even better example:
https://youtu.be/AygNlkwB_ZQ?si=oXW8lkKT3NBovq7t
550k healthpools in six hits, yet the game is not ready for Hulkling lmao it is for Red Guardian but not for Hulkling, sure.
Mane I didn’t even think about red guardian, like kabam miss me with that “Hulkling is too strong” argument💀
"The game is not ready for Hulkling or CGR"
*Red Guardian casually killing anything in BGs in six heavy attacks* 💀
Hulkling is an insane attacker and a nuts defender if you don't have very specific counters. What defensive value does red guardian have?

Right, so is FAM and he has a lot of utility as well, what's the argument there?