Apple Now Requires Game Developers to disclose odds on "Loot Boxes" [MERGED THREADS]

Vdh2008

Any comments on this?

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16805674/apple-loot-box-app-store-games-odds-probability-disclosure

Comments

Kabam Vydious

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Another update and still no drop rates. Too bad

Though this wasn't included in 17.1, it's still a very high priority on getting this information out to all of you.

Zuko_ILC

Kabam Vydious wrote: »

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Another update and still no drop rates. Too bad

Though this wasn't included in 17.1, it's still a very high priority on getting this information out to all of you.

Thanks for the update!

DNA3000

Vidikamon wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

MattScott wrote: »

r3zonate wrote: »

I don't understand how anyone here could blame or condone Apple for doing this. Other countries already require games to disclose this information, and I'm sure Apple already provides the information for players in those areas. How is Apple gaining anything from this?

Games use the words "rare" and "chance" loosely, giving us no idea what the actual odds are of obtaining some of the items presented in deals and people can steer clear of certain deals that seem good until you find out the actual odds of getting the better items are 0.0001% instead of 10%

Some people don't have thousands of dollars to spend on a game, and feel cheated after spending only to have wasted their hard earned money getting the same items they would have after collecting them in-game.

I'm glad Apple has decided to enforce this and hope Goggle follows the same business model. The community has already been collecting data, trying to figure out what the drop rates are anyway, so why is it such a big issue?

Would love to see the odds of 4 Star punisher in arena crystal.
0.0000001%

My best guess is that is something between one in a thousand and one in two thousand. Or if you like between 0.05% and 0.1%

Well I must be very lucky then. I have been playing for about a year and got 4* punisher twice from less than 100 arena crystals.

That is pretty lucky. The odds of doing that are probably between one in fifty and one in two hundred. Decent lottery odds. The first time I pulled him I think I was just short of a thousand crystals. I've seen cases of people taking far more than that.

DNA3000

Kabam Vydious wrote: »

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Another update and still no drop rates. Too bad

Though this wasn't included in 17.1, it's still a very high priority on getting this information out to all of you.

Is this likely a 17.x thing, or more likely an 18.x feature?

Kabam Vydious

DNA3000 wrote: »

Is this likely a 17.x thing, or more likely an 18.x feature?

We're very close to having an implementation to display that information! We'll have more on that for you early next week.

MattMan

Kabam Vydious wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

Is this likely a 17.x thing, or more likely an 18.x feature?

We're very close to having an implementation to display that information! We'll have more on that for you early next week.

In the meantime, why it post them here for all to see?

Kabam Vydious

MattMan wrote: »

In the meantime, why it post them here for all to see?

Miike answered this previously in the thread!

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey Guys,

I know that you think that posting them in the Forums is quick and easy, but it is not, and doesn't satisfy what we are trying to do, which is make Drop Rates available in game.

unknown

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Kabam Vydious

MU313 wrote: »

Will this only apply to Ios users or will android players get the same courtesy?

The Drop Rates are going to be available within the game. This applies to both iOS and Android users.

DNA3000

Kabam Vydious wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

Is this likely a 17.x thing, or more likely an 18.x feature?

We're very close to having an implementation to display that information! We'll have more on that for you early next week.

Great. Looking forward to what you have planned.

Thatweirdguy

Kabam Vydious wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

Is this likely a 17.x thing, or more likely an 18.x feature?

We're very close to having an implementation to display that information! We'll have more on that for you early next week.

Thanks for the update.

Thatweirdguy

Let's all take the time to thank the good folks over at Apple for finally getting us this info.

420sam

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Let's all take the time to thank the good folks over at Apple for finally getting us this info.

Nope, if stated odds are what you need to make a purchase decision then this is probably not the game for you. You probably should have quit a long time ago.

DNA3000

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Let's all take the time to thank the good folks over at Apple for finally getting us this info.

It is rare that everyone in a game company has exactly the same beliefs. It is probably true that there were developers that wanted to release this information but they were overridden by other decision makers. The Apple guidelines eliminated the roadblocks to doing it, but I'm sure there were developers inside of Kabam just as happy to see that guideline as the players were.

But yeah, I'm happy that Apple contributed positively to the situation. It is certainly not the end of the discussion about randomized loot boxes, but it at least sets the precedent that game companies have to factor in other things besides their own trepidation about being transparent about their reward systems.

DNA3000

420sam wrote: »

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Let's all take the time to thank the good folks over at Apple for finally getting us this info.

Nope, if stated odds are what you need to make a purchase decision then this is probably not the game for you. You probably should have quit a long time ago.

That's both harsh and unfair. It is just as easy to say that if someone opposes better disclosure from a game company that would benefit all its players, they are probably a detriment to that game's community and should be discarded as rapidly as possible.

The approximate odds of getting the rewards are exactly what drives my decisions on crystal purchases. They determine whether I open featured 5* or basic 5*. They determine whether I buy GMCs or PHCs or none of them. Every trade of one resource for another resource for me is a value decision. And when a randomized lootbox is on one side of the trade, knowing the approximate odds is the only way to know if the trade is worth it. Either I know those odds, I research those odds, or a pull crystals often enough to determine those odds. That last step is often extremely expensive, and no player should be forced to do it.

DNA3000

BitterSteel wrote: »

I really really really can’t wait to see how soul crushingly small the odds for feature 5* champ is in FGMC

We already have reasonable measured estimates very roughly in the one in 200 range.

Thatweirdguy

420sam wrote: »

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Let's all take the time to thank the good folks over at Apple for finally getting us this info.

Nope, if stated odds are what you need to make a purchase decision then this is probably not the game for you. You probably should have quit a long time ago.

I don't "need" anything. I want the odds. Many others do also. If you don't want odds before you make a purchase good for you. That is your preference. Go ahead and walk onto a car lot and pay sticker price too. However, many American consumers are used knowing what they are paying for. You might be from a different country so you don't get that.

DNA3000

BitterSteel wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

I really really really can’t wait to see how soul crushingly small the odds for feature 5* champ is in FGMC

We already have reasonable measured estimates very roughly in the one in 200 range.

I know. But the confirmation is what I want to see.

I would like to see accurate data as well, but your soul should already be pre-crushed.

420sam

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

420sam wrote: »

Thatweirdguy wrote: »

Let's all take the time to thank the good folks over at Apple for finally getting us this info.

Nope, if stated odds are what you need to make a purchase decision then this is probably not the game for you. You probably should have quit a long time ago.

I don't "need" anything. I want the odds. Many others do also. If you don't want odds before you make a purchase good for you. That is your preference. Go ahead and walk onto a car lot and pay sticker price too. However, many American consumers are used knowing what they are paying for. You might be from a different country so you don't get that.

Wow, would you like a participation trophy? And no, I pay invoice or less than invoice every time. I prefer to waste my money on other things like this game.

DNA3000

BitterSteel wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

I really really really can’t wait to see how soul crushingly small the odds for feature 5* champ is in FGMC

We already have reasonable measured estimates very roughly in the one in 200 range.

I know. But the confirmation is what I want to see.

I would like to see accurate data as well, but your soul should already be pre-crushed.

Not me sir, I’ve opened about 4 FGMC, they are a money pit and not worth it. I’m waiting to see crushed souls of the whale variety.

I think I've probably bought twelve or fifteen max, a couple at a time, total. Best I got out of them was a 5* Elektra, actually. That's pretty lucky, but it is also a pretty expensive Elektra overall. I don't recommend them myself.

unknown

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DNA3000

kushstar88 wrote: »

drop rates are not important

Unless you play on Android, drop rate publishing is extremely important. Since unless they eventually did that, you wouldn't get fixes for any other problem ever, as compliance with the app publishing guidelines is ultimately required to keep updating the app in the Apple app store.