Alliance Quest Miniboss and Sentinel Refresh - April 2018 - Discussion Thread [Updated April 13]

Summoners,

We've just announced a small refresh of Alliance Quests that will start April 2nd. This will include new Minibosses, and a farewell to our Symbioid friends!

Read all about it, then ask your questions!

UPDATE:
We've just posted an update in regards to your feedback on Alliance Quests. This post includes some adjustments to Sentinels and Alliance Quests that will be coming with the next series (Starting April 18th). Take a look right here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/62626/upcoming-adjustments-to-alliance-quests-april-18th-2018

Comments

DiablosUltimate

Update that increases difficulty of AQ but doesn't increase rewards? you should release this update on april 1st, not 2nd, coz it's a joke

Mattylo

This makes no sense at all and really disheartning as one of the many long time players.

This is just now another thing that gets changed half way and your players will be the ones left to suffer. Really wish you would pick one thing and see it through before you take on something else. We dont want things half done with the promise it will come later. Which is more often then not re-written on your boards over and over to fall on deaf ears.

Just take a look at your boards and you will see what your players want and I would start there.

Il_JooO

what about goblin?

Ultimatheory

On one hand I'm happy to be seeing some change to the monotony that is the current AQ. On the other hand I'm disappointed that this wasn't done as a completely new season with new rewards and a new boss. It just feels like an attempt to force in what work that has been completed due to posts recently here on the forums and on external sites that are complaining that game is too stale. Hopefully the new season is not too far behind this half attempt at a roll out.

PincheChingon

roastedbagel wrote: »

PincheChingon wrote: »

@Kabam Miike
Please put some numbers here as to how much damage we can expect to see from the map6 mini boss Void’s “Fear of the Void” unavoidable damage. I expect this to be a massive damage that will almost be an auto kill in a few seconds, IF you don’t have an r4 5*. All the while trying to bait his specials.

Just a simple question, looking for a simple answer.

That's not how it works.

His fear of the void doesn't actually cause any debuff damage (it just combines the *effects* of the 3 debuffs), just the actual 3 various debuffs he inflicts. And those of course can be removed by going over a 10 hit combo.

Source: I play Void almost exclusively and know him inside and out

Good insight. I’m Just asking approximately how much damage we can expect to see with the boosted attack of mini boss node. I.e +300% attack.
Just like Dormammu’s degen is a lot when he is boosted in war/quests/Act5.
Does it scale up damage output based on attack%

Amonthir

Yes, it does. A highly boosted Void is gonna hurt, lol. Might can go through Uncollected EQ and find a Void, check his attack and figure out the damage ratio from there, to estimate his damage in new AQ. Hype and Void should have similar base attacks, so maybe can just check attack on Map 6 Hype sub and extrapolate.

Hulksmasshh

I think we have been so accustomed to wanting more and more rewards that any change in the game that doesn’t result in more rewards is looked upon as negative. Almost like we don’t play this game for the fun of fighting, we play this game for the fun of getting rewards. It’s also why offers feel so fun to buy and people get upset when the offers are no good.

Not that it’s entirely Kabam’s fault, as the core mechanics of fighting in this game is too simple and repetitive to be “fun”. If Duel events started giving out 5* and 6* shards, everyone would jump on that event quickly and it would be viewed as a fun event when it came around. The only time I have fun fighting is after soloing a tough AW node because of the external satisfaction of not contributing to the death count. I don’t know if there’s anything Kabam can do to change that at this point, but they should realize that making a significant change like this without altering the fun factor (the rewards) is a recipe for disappointment.

Jbwilde

Kabam Miike wrote: »

420sam wrote: »

So, you are making it more difficult yet not adjusting anything like rewards or even glory? Can I ask why? How does this benefit the players?

As we said in that post, we are working on a full refresh. We are not at a place or time where we can increase the rewards or fully refresh the mode right now.

@Kabam Miike
How about you at least give us free AQ for a couple weeks while you experiment on us? Although in your opinion it might not be harder, we are going to have to completely change our AQ teams which is going to require ranking up different champions which many of us are so short on gold and other resources that we are gonna need to start saving somewhere. I know I'm going to have to completely redo my AQ team.

Greenstroke

Qmon wrote: »

@Kabam Miike Will the sentinels each have different specials like the symbiods? If not, that's unfair as the special 2 is difficult to fully evade. Also, fighting them is not more 'refreshing' if they all have the same moveset (in terms of animations from attacks and specials) since we'll get quickly bored of them in a week. And you can't counter the debuff immune sentinels with armor break.

Evading the L1 and L2 is easy, but on the other stuff i agree.

Bjcasa

The issue isn't that aq will be harder, no biggie there and it impacts everyone equally. It's that specific Champs and teams built for the type of opponents encountered in AQ are now at a huge disadvantage in AQ. RDTs are the only way to solve this without unfairly impacting players that ranked (r4/r5) Champs specifically for aq based on its established structure which has now been adjusted. If this change had been broadcast 2 months ago I wouldn't have r4ed my 5 star Drax, and r5ed my 5 star GP! KABAM RDTs stop this from negatively impacting some players more than others.

Bjcasa

And discounts in glory store won't help that. It would take (best case) 150,000 glory to R4 just 1 5 star and R5 is essentially a year long project since t5bc cannot be gained again once you 100%. RDT is the only solution.

Mirage_Turtle

This is disappointing, Kabam. 12 pages of people stating what a silly move this is and you're not willing to make any concession that this rollout may be, in fact, silly?

Don't become so entrenched in your perspective that you alienate your player base...again.

Your Community Boss Rush event was a home run. Excellent on all fronts. This AQ "refresh" rollout on the other hand...

BitterSteel

Mirage_Turtle wrote: »

This is disappointing, Kabam. 12 pages of people stating what a silly move this is and you're not willing to make any concession that this rollout may be, in fact, silly?

Don't become so entrenched in your perspective that you alienate your player base...again.

Your Community Boss Rush event was a home run. Excellent on all fronts. This AQ "refresh" rollout on the other hand...

Every change that kabam makes has at least 20 pages of people stating what a silly move it is. This is nothing.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Kryptic81

It's not like they would ever increase the rewards without touching the difficulty.

Kpatrix

Will sentinels give more points than the symbis ? Currently symbis cap out on day 3 for us at 53k or so, so day 4&5 we don't get as big of a point increase, kind of really flattens off from day 3-5 compared to 1-3. If this gives us more points and pushes us up another milestone it will be worth it at lest

Kdog76

Mods have stopped responding, classic we know you hate it but you’ll spend money and stay anyway response. Amazing how a company that cares so little stays in business.

Mhykke

Bring back rifts!!!!!

Edit: Nevermind!!!!!

mostlyharmlessn

Kabam DK wrote: »

With regards to the comments about how this version of Alliance Quests will be harder, we understand where you're coming from. As with anything you're unfamiliar with, it will be definitely be harder at first. It might take a little while to get used to, but we know our summoners, and we know how quickly they learn and can get used to new content, especially content that is recurring like Alliance Quests. If this update was so inconsequential that it was as easy at the start as you all find Alliance Quests right now (after months of practice) then there would be no point in us making this update, or ANY update for that matter.

It will take some time to get accustomed to the new encounters, but refreshing recurring content is important to keep the game fresh, and exciting!

IMHO the problem is you are taking the time to "refresh" the content, reducing the effectiveness of long favorite champs like Wolverine and new champs like Blade which many have invested in, but not taking the time to also refresh the rewards to go along with it. In other words, the refresh seems to be very one sided in who will benefit from the changes, and it's not the summoners.

D14rock

What about giving players rank downs now that wolvy is useless.. also with the inclusion if sentinels which take forever to take down, you should increase the match timer to 5 minutes.. already without the sentinels, if l you are in an alliance right now with decent prestige, you can't take down nodes in time with 4* Champs anymore.

BitterSteel

D14rock wrote: »

What about giving players rank downs now that wolvy is useless.. also with the inclusion if sentinels which take forever to take down, you should increase the match timer to 5 minutes.. already without the sentinels, if l you are in an alliance right now with decent prestige, you can't take down nodes in time with 4* Champs anymore.

If you think Wolvy is useless you don’t deserve to have him

TheOneAndOnly

BitterSteel wrote: »

D14rock wrote: »

What about giving players rank downs now that wolvy is useless.. also with the inclusion if sentinels which take forever to take down, you should increase the match timer to 5 minutes.. already without the sentinels, if l you are in an alliance right now with decent prestige, you can't take down nodes in time with 4* Champs anymore.

If you think Wolvy is useless you don’t deserve to have him

Day 5 Wolverine on debuff immune path against CB can go to the wire if you are not aggressive enough.

unknown

This content has been removed.

DarknessKitten

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Summoners,

We've just announced a small refresh of Alliance Quests that will start April 2nd. This will include new Minibosses, and a farewell to our Symbioid friends!

Read all about it, then ask your questions!

Anything you guys are up for.

Tom_Cruise1

@Kabam DK
Sentinels cannot be awaken, how would anyone fight a sentinel on bleed/poison/immune paths with no class advantage champs?

BitterSteel

Tom_Cruise1 wrote: »

@Kabam DK
Sentinels cannot be awaken, how would anyone fight a sentinel on bleed/poison/immune paths with no class advantage champs?

Take a bleed or poison Immune that has a class advantage over the sentinels on your path.

TKal

BitterSteel wrote: »

Tom_Cruise1 wrote: »

@Kabam DK
Sentinels cannot be awaken, how would anyone fight a sentinel on bleed/poison/immune paths with no class advantage champs?

Take a bleed or poison Immune that has a class advantage over the sentinels on your path.

Is there any bleed immune skill champ ? And also science ? Cause on path #1 tier 2 there is 2 symbioids on bleed node, one science and one mystic

BitterSteel

TKal wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

Tom_Cruise1 wrote: »

@Kabam DK
Sentinels cannot be awaken, how would anyone fight a sentinel on bleed/poison/immune paths with no class advantage champs?

Take a bleed or poison Immune that has a class advantage over the sentinels on your path.

Is there any bleed immune skill champ ? And also science ? Cause on path #1 tier 2 there is 2 symbioids on bleed node, one science and one mystic

Luke cage for science but for skill you could take in agent venom or kingpin for a chance to shrug off, although not the best option since over time you’ll lose them a fair few times. Why is the class advantage so important to have? Get the person going that path just have a bleed immune champion who can beat a science sentinel without class advantage. Sure it helps combat the sig ability but it’s not a must.

TKal

BitterSteel wrote: »

TKal wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

Tom_Cruise1 wrote: »

@Kabam DK
Sentinels cannot be awaken, how would anyone fight a sentinel on bleed/poison/immune paths with no class advantage champs?

Take a bleed or poison Immune that has a class advantage over the sentinels on your path.

Is there any bleed immune skill champ ? And also science ? Cause on path #1 tier 2 there is 2 symbioids on bleed node, one science and one mystic

Luke cage for science but for skill you could take in agent venom or kingpin for a chance to shrug off, although not the best option since over time you’ll lose them a fair few times. Why is the class advantage so important to have? Get the person going that path just have a bleed immune champion who can beat a science sentinel without class advantage. Sure it helps combat the sig ability but it’s not a must.

It will be I think in map 5 day 5, when the fights will be long enough for the analysis of sentinels to **** off a fight

DNA3000

Kabam DK wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

But how are you so sure that the difficulty has gotten worse?

Granted, Bleed and Poison champions may not be as effective in Alliance Quests as they were before, but Sentinels melt at the power of a Armor Break Champion, and a lot of the new Mini-Bosses have very common counters!

Kabam DK wrote: »

With regards to the comments about how this version of Alliance Quests will be harder, we understand where you're coming from. As with anything you're unfamiliar with, it will be definitely be harder at first. It might take a little while to get used to, but we know our summoners, and we know how quickly they learn and can get used to new content, especially content that is recurring like Alliance Quests. If this update was so inconsequential that it was as easy at the start as you all find Alliance Quests right now (after months of practice) then there would be no point in us making this update, or ANY update for that matter.

It will take some time to get accustomed to the new encounters, but refreshing recurring content is important to keep the game fresh, and exciting!

So it seems here that DK is admitting it’s harder, and Miike is saying it won’t be. Which one is right, I’m inclined to think it will be harder so I’ll go with DK. The thing is, what is the point in releasing the update to AQ now? Why not wait a little longer and have the difficulty and rewards go up at the same time, in the manner it should.

Let me clarify:

I am saying ANY change of consequence will be harder AT FIRST, but not because the actual difficulty/complexity of the fights is harder, simply because you will not be as experienced at doing the fights. Miike is saying the complexity/difficulty of the fights is approximately the same: i.e. not necessarily harder. Both are accurate statements, but we're sorry for the confusion around them.

While the difficulty will initially rise simply because we are inexperienced at the new map, the new map is very obviously harder in a way no amount of experience will eliminate. That seems very obvious to me. The Sentinels have to be harder to fight than the Syms if for no other reason than the Syms get most of their difficulty from their node buffs which the Sentinels will also have on top of their other intrinsic abilities - immunities being one of them. And the Map 5 bosses at least look as a whole significantly harder to fight. Just the limber Nightcrawler alone is an obvious increase in difficulty. Saying "there are obvious counters to them" is an evasion. *Everything* has obvious counters to it, but that doesn't address whether something is less difficult or more difficult. Limber Nightcrawler is intrinsically more difficult than all of the current Map 5 minibosses.

Sure, people said similar things about Groot, but there's a difference: Nightcrawler, as well as other high evade champions like Spider-man, have been *consistent* strong AW defenders throughout post 12.0 alliance war. That means even though (some) players have gotten much better at defeating evading champions, we know across the entire playerbase that Nightcrawler will be harder to beat even today. What's more, we have tons of experience fighting evading champions specifically because they are placed so often in AW. We are already starting from a very high amount of practice against such a boss, and we know it is still hasn't gotten easy for the vast majority of players - or we wouldn't be seeing them placed as defenders.

Using AW as the proxy for how hard a buffed champion will be, lets look at the current three minibosses on Map 5 verses the new ones: Cable, Rhino, Mordo vs Morningstar, Green Goblin, Nightcrawler. If we were placing one set or the other on AW defense, which one is likely to be the harder set overall? I'd say the latter by significant margin.

And with all due respect, whoever the AW designers were almost certainly didn't pick these changes randomly. They picked changes that very obviously increased the difficulty. The notion that these changes are arbitrary just to inject some change to the map that the designers either believe are exactly the same intrinsic difficulty or alternatively that they have no idea if they are more or less difficult is simply unbelievable to me.