Counter Tactics plus Increased Power Gain is a bad mechanic

Hi, folks!

Just got around to to the final boss fight in the Boseman/Holland Challenge, and out of all the fights and nodes, the thread title is the only one that truly bothered me.

I actually like Counter Tactics. It forces you to intercept, not just stand there and block, because of the chip damage. That's fair.

Increased Power Gain has been around just about forever. Also fair. Bait out specials, so on and so forth.

The problem is when they are both together -- the cumulative effect is actually a penalty to the player for landing successful attacks/intercepts, which you have to do in this fight. The aggression of the boss AI means you have to move forward -- you cannot allow yourself to be boxed into your zone or the corner, again, because of the chip damage.

But moving forward means you have to fight offensively, which means pushing Thanos' Power Gain out of control. Yes, evading the L1 is basic. The L2 isn't difficult, either. I am not a noob. I know how to play the game.

What I found is that the combination of the aggressive AI, the power gain and chip damage means you push Thanos to his L3 too often and too quickly -- I ate a couple of those where I did nothing wrong. He wouldn't use the L2, I couldn't just take the chip damage so I had to intercept, and there you go: L3 time.

I think, if you are going to have Counter Tactics plus Power Gain plus and Unblockable L1, the character should at least have a Special Bias for L1 and L2. That means the player isn't completely penalized for intercepting and playing successful offense, while having the ability to evade successfully on defense plus the ability to bait specials, and not just stand there and absorb them.

That sounds more fair to me. Am I alone in this?

Comments

Animatronics_to3

Tbh i don’t even remember which champ had this.. wasn’t a big problem for me at all i breezed through my first run

ESF

Animatronics_to3 wrote: »

Tbh i don’t even remember which champ had this.. wasn’t a big problem for me at all i breezed through my first run

Who did you use for Thanos, then?

I wound up using OG Vision, which just seemed a little cheap.

JRock808

Blade. Didn’t even realize he had counter tactics until I just went back and looked. And I did it one path a time just for fun, so I fought him 6 times. Oops!

Spera

If you're having trouble with it you might want to consider using luke cage , taking a hit will reset your combo meter so chip damage isn't an issue

Chicken

I never had any problems baiting thanos specials. He was so aggressive that he just would throw them every chance he got. But I do like the special bias that you suggested.

BigTime

I found that two quick evades would bait his specials. Bad luck does happen sometimes but he seemed fine on my 3 kills of him.

Throughly enjoyed this challenge to be honest. It seemed far more skill based than some other content. Namely Ice Phoenix.

Cobs

I used my B team on this challenge so i ended up using a 4* SL for thanos and it was pretty easy with him. Hit into his block to push him back ti avoid getting stuck in the corner but he was easy to bait so used his specials pretty liberally

Speeds80

I went in for a practise with a magik on 25%, I just baited the l1 evaded, then rushed in the whole fight, hit him with a combo ran back and bAited again, killed him first time. I decided to never use the l2 I would just do 3/4 hits and l1 for more damage, I think the thing is he always has an l1 bias, so don’t push him to l2, that’s when he gets sticky and you get pinned in a corner

Lvernon15

In some of the thanks attempts I found the power gain helpful, but on the attempts he didn’t use his specials it was bs, in the end I used magik so if I needed I could do a power drain aswell as still having good damage

xNig

Tbh, power gain actually helps you more.

ThatGuy214

This challenge was steam rolled

Wolfe

Thanos has counter tactics? I didn’t even realize it. He went out pretty quickly if I recall.

Marri

Thanos was the easy fight. 5-hit combo, bait SP1, rinse repeat, every 2-3 combos bait SP2, dead in X hits. Sparky killed me (don't have a great roster unfortunately, had no good counter for him).

If anything the power gain makes it easier. His SP1 + SP2 are super easy to bait and evade and you can dash in for a next combo. Far less risky than intercepting. More SP means less risky intercepts means less accidental deaths means less potion. At the cost of a slightly longer fight.

If you get cornered in all 5 fights, you aren't baiting well.

unknown

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Spera

What first parry?

IOSJasoN

xNig wrote: »

Tbh, power gain actually helps you more.

Marri wrote: »

Thanos was the easy fight. 5-hit combo, bait SP1, rinse repeat, every 2-3 combos bait SP2, dead in X hits. Sparky killed me (don't have a great roster unfortunately, had no good counter for him).

If anything the power gain makes it easier. His SP1 + SP2 are super easy to bait and evade and you can dash in for a next combo. Far less risky than intercepting. More SP means less risky intercepts means less accidental deaths means less potion. At the cost of a slightly longer fight.

If you get cornered in all 5 fights, you aren't baiting well.

As already stated I found it helped a lot.. Side note.. Don't be scared to shield hit.. (He doesn't have explosive personality) helps push him back without much power gain..

Animatronicsto

ESF wrote: »

Animatronics_to3 wrote: »

Tbh i don’t even remember which champ had this.. wasn’t a big problem for me at all i breezed through my first run

Who did you use for Thanos, then?

I wound up using OG Vision, which just seemed a little cheap.

He was a challenge. Had to use stark spidey and got him down to 23% in one shot

Username1583

ESF wrote: »

Hi, folks!

Just got around to to the final boss fight in the Boseman/Holland Challenge, and out of all the fights and nodes, the thread title is the only one that truly bothered me.

I actually like Counter Tactics. It forces you to intercept, not just stand there and block, because of the chip damage. That's fair.

Increased Power Gain has been around just about forever. Also fair. Bait out specials, so on and so forth.

The problem is when they are both together -- the cumulative effect is actually a penalty to the player for landing successful attacks/intercepts, which you have to do in this fight. The aggression of the boss AI means you have to move forward -- you cannot allow yourself to be boxed into your zone or the corner, again, because of the chip damage.

But moving forward means you have to fight offensively, which means pushing Thanos' Power Gain out of control. Yes, evading the L1 is basic. The L2 isn't difficult, either. I am not a noob. I know how to play the game.

What I found is that the combination of the aggressive AI, the power gain and chip damage means you push Thanos to his L3 too often and too quickly -- I ate a couple of those where I did nothing wrong. He wouldn't use the L2, I couldn't just take the chip damage so I had to intercept, and there you go: L3 time.

I think, if you are going to have Counter Tactics plus Power Gain plus and Unblockable L1, the character should at least have a Special Bias for L1 and L2. That means the player isn't completely penalized for intercepting and playing successful offense, while having the ability to evade successfully on defense plus the ability to bait specials, and not just stand there and absorb them.

That sounds more fair to me. Am I alone in this?

The power gain makes it easier otherwise he would kill you with few block hits. I have never pushed Thanos to the L3 and I fought him 4 times, what are talking about? Just hit him on the block to get close and not being pushed to the corner.

Voluntaris

ESF wrote: »

Animatronics_to3 wrote: »

Tbh i don’t even remember which champ had this.. wasn’t a big problem for me at all i breezed through my first run

Who did you use for Thanos, then?

I wound up using OG Vision, which just seemed a little cheap.

I used Blade for final Thanos for a 1 shot.

Also for fun used Stark, and a 4 star Iceman ... was the easiest of most the fights.

Just push to sp1, bait and punish his sp1, repeat until Thanos is dead.

Shrimkins

Use magik. Her specials don't give thanos any power so you can use your sp1 to push him back far enough that spacing is never an issue.

unknown

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BitterSteel

ESF wrote: »

Animatronics_to3 wrote: »

Tbh i don’t even remember which champ had this.. wasn’t a big problem for me at all i breezed through my first run

Who did you use for Thanos, then?

I wound up using OG Vision, which just seemed a little cheap.

Apparently there’s nothing cheap about OG vision.

charaderdude2

It was OK for me,Haven't 100%Ed round 4 yet,but Aside from high combo blocked hits (I got saved with pb couple of times)did 13k.It was easy

Hammerbro_64

I liked how Thanos had 100% power gain so all I had to do was 5 hit, bait, 5 hit. No need to try to do 4 hit intercept or anything. For counter measures, bring LC or Killmonger (indestructible)

Marri

All my good champs were tied up in war. Ended up doing it with a 4-40 unduped Cap WWII. It was the first fight, so testing the water, but oneshot him. I had 2-35 Moin Knight, 3-30 Hawkeye, 4-40 Guillotine and 4-40 BW for backup.

Only did the easy line, need my top champs for a chance at harder lines. Especially Sparky...not fun with my champs.

DrZola

Haji_Saab wrote: »

Power gain actually helps against counter tactics. You never have to intercept or parry after the first parry / intercept.

Actually, you never even have to have a first parry or intercept. Just evade out of the gate, hit his block 4-5 times and he's on Sp1. Then surf the repeating loop of Sp1-Evade-swipe in for combo-Sp1-Evade...

Dr. Zola