**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

The problem with de-ranking piloting alliances

Cryptic_CobraCryptic_Cobra Posts: 532 ★★★
I am in an alliance that was recently de-ranked by 400-500 aw points. (we aren't major offenders or anything, but one of our members must have been using a pilot (wish kabam would tell us who, but that not the point of this thread) The problem this has created is one in our favor, and I don't agree with it.
I accept that rule breaking is bad, and should be dealt with, so i have no problem being punished if we did indeed break the rules. But we are not the only people being punished. Now that we are so low ranked in wars we are being unfairly matched against much worse alliances, and are crushing them with no chance of retaliation. This is so unfair to the other players we watch against and is effecting more then just the offending party.
My suggestion would be to deduct seasonal points only, or something of the sort, because reducing our rank is far from a fair solution. Sure we are now unable to compete for a top aw spot, but we are also a massive roadblock to anyone we match against.
«13

Comments

  • 1haunted_memory1haunted_memory Posts: 804 ★★★
    what should be done, is remove the cheaters from the alliance and not punish those who do play by the rules, unfortunately my alliance has recently experience this and yes they did ban the person who cheated but we never knew he cheated and the other 29 get punished. I've been playing and paying real money for over 3 years never once have I cheated yet I get punished
  • Cryptic_CobraCryptic_Cobra Posts: 532 ★★★
    So I read a recently closed thread and expect this one is doomed. If the forum is not a place to discuss these matters then where CAN we? I am not advocating cheating and feel it should be dealt with, but there are flaws in this system and they should be discussed.
  • 2StarKing2StarKing Posts: 855 ★★★
    Like OP stated, deduct season points. This keeps matchmaking fair. Kabam you gotta give some indication of the player who violated the terms of service... pilots. Suppose an alliance has disgruntled members. They could choose to stay in the alliance and intentionally punish the alliance by piloting or whatever.
  • 1haunted_memory1haunted_memory Posts: 804 ★★★
    gohard123 wrote: »
    what should be done, is remove the cheaters from the alliance and not punish those who do play by the rules, unfortunately my alliance has recently experience this and yes they did ban the person who cheated but we never knew he cheated and the other 29 get punished. I've been playing and paying real money for over 3 years never once have I cheated yet I get punished

    You should definitely punish the alliance as they gain from it. It is unfortunate but it has to be done. However they should be a way to remove the cheater so the other members are not punished again.

    disagree since we already lost the last 3 wars
  • 1haunted_memory1haunted_memory Posts: 804 ★★★
    gohard123 wrote: »
    what should be done, is remove the cheaters from the alliance and not punish those who do play by the rules, unfortunately my alliance has recently experience this and yes they did ban the person who cheated but we never knew he cheated and the other 29 get punished. I've been playing and paying real money for over 3 years never once have I cheated yet I get punished

    You should definitely punish the alliance as they gain from it. It is unfortunate but it has to be done. However they should be a way to remove the cheater so the other members are not punished again.

    disagree since we already lost the last 3 wars

    I have done nothing wrong but I get punished, I didn't even know he was cheating or I would have reported him myself!!!!
  • Cryptic_CobraCryptic_Cobra Posts: 532 ★★★
    gohard123 wrote: »
    what should be done, is remove the cheaters from the alliance and not punish those who do play by the rules, unfortunately my alliance has recently experience this and yes they did ban the person who cheated but we never knew he cheated and the other 29 get punished. I've been playing and paying real money for over 3 years never once have I cheated yet I get punished

    You should definitely punish the alliance as they gain from it. It is unfortunate but it has to be done. However they should be a way to remove the cheater so the other members are not punished again.

    disagree since we already lost the last 3 wars

    I have done nothing wrong but I get punished, I didn't even know he was cheating or I would have reported him myself!!!!

    You benefit from his cheating if you are aware of it or not. I agree that the whole alliance needs to be affected, but my problem is other alliances are also suffering from this.
  • Warofgods13514Warofgods13514 Posts: 202
    Somehow I think a mod will say this
    Hey guys, this is not the place to discuss any actions which have been taken against individual Alliances in response to cheating. Also, we have stated many times previously that it has always been our policy to not disclose details of any players who we have found to be cheating in the Contest. This is a privacy policy that we have always adhered to, and regardless of whether or not you agree with this policy, it's not one that is up for debate on these Forums
  • Cryptic_CobraCryptic_Cobra Posts: 532 ★★★
    Somehow I think a mod will say this
    Hey guys, this is not the place to discuss any actions which have been taken against individual Alliances in response to cheating. Also, we have stated many times previously that it has always been our policy to not disclose details of any players who we have found to be cheating in the Contest. This is a privacy policy that we have always adhered to, and regardless of whether or not you agree with this policy, it's not one that is up for debate on these Forums

    thanks for quoting the recently closed thread I was referring to :disappointed:, and your prob right. But it doesn't change the fact this needs to be talked about, and people will continue to try and talk about it on this forum, as its the only place to actually talk about it. They say this is "not the place" well then give us a place for the community to talk about. Make a new forum section dedicated to dealing with cheating, its a problem and you can't just keep sweeping it under the rug.
  • The1_NuclearOnionThe1_NuclearOnion Posts: 907 ★★★
    I think OP has an excellent point on this one in that dropping the war rating on these alliances is saturating the lower rating AW with overkill teams who are going to crush people at that level. It should be considered as an unbalance.
  • Zuko_ILCZuko_ILC Posts: 1,504 ★★★★★
    They should lose the points, drop their tier to Gold 1 and keep their war rating so they have to still fight tougher alliances. Right now its an incentive to get caught piloting cuz you have easy matches so chances of losing are low.
  • mum_m2mum_m2 Posts: 1,776 ★★★★
    I dont see them responding to you at all since they've come out very hard on this. you can find their views in the forums as it is, and in my experience they're not going to change their stance on it. Not only that but your entire arguement is that it's not fair to you that someone on your alliance cheated. Well it's not fair to the 30 or so members of the opposing alliances that you had an advantage over. Piloting is against the TOS and that's just the way it is. if you don't like it, the cut off is approaching to move to another alliance. it's pretty simple and easy to find a group of guys and gals who don't use any piloting.
  • Cryptic_CobraCryptic_Cobra Posts: 532 ★★★
    Zuko_ILC wrote: »
    They should lose the points, drop their tier to Gold 1 and keep their war rating so they have to still fight tougher alliances. Right now its an incentive to get caught piloting cuz you have easy matches so chances of losing are low.

    Sure you get easy wars but you miss out on better seasonal rewards and your shards per win are lower. Nobody is out looking to get caught piloting, its definitely not a positive for your alliance. The problem i have is its a negative for not only the offending party, but the non offending ones as well.
  • Cryptic_CobraCryptic_Cobra Posts: 532 ★★★
    mum_m2 wrote: »
    I dont see them responding to you at all since they've come out very hard on this. you can find their views in the forums as it is, and in my experience they're not going to change their stance on it. Not only that but your entire arguement is that it's not fair to you that someone on your alliance cheated. Well it's not fair to the 30 or so members of the opposing alliances that you had an advantage over. Piloting is against the TOS and that's just the way it is. if you don't like it, the cut off is approaching to move to another alliance. it's pretty simple and easy to find a group of guys and gals who don't use any piloting.

    At no point did i say i was mad to have been punished with my alliance (on the contrary I actually support it) My argument is that other alliances are being punished for my alliances dropped rating... NOT that i was punished for something I didn't do.
  • Bryan03Bryan03 Posts: 16
    4esrkycz4guw.png
    They say it’s against their privacy policy to flag cheaters when in reality it says the can to reasonably inforce their terms of service. 🤔
  • Bryan03Bryan03 Posts: 16
    Sections 4,5,6 would seem that it would be possible to flag cheaters for the benifit of all.
  • AnkalagonnAnkalagonn Posts: 535 ★★
    Yeah, Ive seen so many big alliances in my tier lately, that we are pushed down. but this is another way where Kabam does make money.
  • PaytoPlayPaytoPlay Posts: 762 ★★★
    Pretty sure kabams plan is just to have top alliance walked all over the lower ones. With multiple 6* some even duped and r2 they will just climb back to the top in no time. Lower guys just hope that they don't have to face these cheaters too many times compare to other similar tier alliances so they can climb up in tier. Everything will be balance again soon but as someone already mentioned, they lose out on higher tier war victory items during this process.
  • Cujo999Cujo999 Posts: 117
    Zuko_ILC wrote: »
    They should lose the points, drop their tier to Gold 1 and keep their war rating so they have to still fight tougher alliances. Right now its an incentive to get caught piloting cuz you have easy matches so chances of losing are low.

    Then you'd have Alliances piloting to up their war rating to get higher multipliers, especially during the breaks between seasons.
  • NCB_ptNCB_pt Posts: 291
    Maybe there wasnt anyone cheating. I believe was a bug and kabam now make excuse that was someone cheating!!
    That happend yesterday to my ally and imagine: no one was baned!!

    And first they answer me was a bug. Hours latter already is a cheat player, but no one was baned!!

    Lazzy support that kabam that we have!! That is very trasparency kabam, no doubt about that!!
  • B_Dizzle_01B_Dizzle_01 Posts: 1,637 ★★★
    We also recently took a large hit. Went from silver 2 tier 12 top 1000 to silver 3 tier 18 3000 rank. We had no idea someone was cheating. He was in the alliance like 2-3 weeks then one day he was just gone. Now we don’t get 5* shards. And have to work our way back up. In a AW now and the opponent has 0 chance to win against us. Has to be a better way.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    The war rating adjustments leave you in the same position as if you had lost the wars won (in part) by cheating. I fail to see how identical outcomes somehow warrant doing anything other than what has been done.
  • Cryptic_CobraCryptic_Cobra Posts: 532 ★★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    The war rating adjustments leave you in the same position as if you had lost the wars won (in part) by cheating. I fail to see how identical outcomes somehow warrant doing anything other than what has been done.
    I can assure you we were at no point this low rated. There is nothing inherently wrong with "treating cheated games as a loss" on my end, but the problem with this system is the drastic difference between us and the people we now match with. Most advancing alliances can expect to have a win rate around 60% or so on average, as they slowly work there way up the ranks of better alliances. A demoted alliance however can expect a win rate of about 90% until they reach the bracket they were demoted from (the only reason I didn't say 100% chance is that there is still a change they get matched to another demoted alliance).
    Screwing with alliance rating has adverse effects on more then just the offending alliance, and this is why it is a flawed system. If they just reduced offending alliances total seasonal score to act "as if they lost" it would keep the matchmaking system balanced (at least more so) while also ruining the offending alliances shot at top rewards.

  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    edited June 2018
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    The war rating adjustments leave you in the same position as if you had lost the wars won (in part) by cheating. I fail to see how identical outcomes somehow warrant doing anything other than what has been done.
    I can assure you we were at no point this low rated. There is nothing inherently wrong with "treating cheated games as a loss" on my end, but the problem with this system is the drastic difference between us and the people we now match with. Most advancing alliances can expect to have a win rate around 60% or so on average, as they slowly work there way up the ranks of better alliances. A demoted alliance however can expect a win rate of about 90% until they reach the bracket they were demoted from (the only reason I didn't say 100% chance is that there is still a change they get matched to another demoted alliance).
    Screwing with alliance rating has adverse effects on more then just the offending alliance, and this is why it is a flawed system. If they just reduced offending alliances total seasonal score to act "as if they lost" it would keep the matchmaking system balanced (at least more so) while also ruining the offending alliances shot at top rewards.
    I can assure you that had you lost the wars won by cheating your rating would be the same as it was after being credited the loss after having been found to have cheated the win.

    Explain how most alliances (implying >50%) win 60% of the time? Lawl
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,236 ★★★★★
    Bryan03 wrote: »
    4esrkycz4guw.png
    They say it’s against their privacy policy to flag cheaters when in reality it says the can to reasonably inforce their terms of service. 🤔

    That's not in context. It refers to legal obligation, as in Law Enforecment. If they are required by law, they are obligated to offer information in certain circumstances. That's not the same as exposing violators for public scrutiny.
  • Cryptic_CobraCryptic_Cobra Posts: 532 ★★★
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    CoatHang3r wrote: »
    The war rating adjustments leave you in the same position as if you had lost the wars won (in part) by cheating. I fail to see how identical outcomes somehow warrant doing anything other than what has been done.
    I can assure you we were at no point this low rated. There is nothing inherently wrong with "treating cheated games as a loss" on my end, but the problem with this system is the drastic difference between us and the people we now match with. Most advancing alliances can expect to have a win rate around 60% or so on average, as they slowly work there way up the ranks of better alliances. A demoted alliance however can expect a win rate of about 90% until they reach the bracket they were demoted from (the only reason I didn't say 100% chance is that there is still a change they get matched to another demoted alliance).
    Screwing with alliance rating has adverse effects on more then just the offending alliance, and this is why it is a flawed system. If they just reduced offending alliances total seasonal score to act "as if they lost" it would keep the matchmaking system balanced (at least more so) while also ruining the offending alliances shot at top rewards.
    I can assure you that had you lost the wars won by cheating your rating would be the same as it was after being credited the loss after having been found to have cheated the win.

    Explain how most alliances (implying >50%) win 60% of the time? Lawl

    your alliance isn't going to fluctuate often in rating. If you lose 1 war, you will get paired with an easier alliance. If you lose another, it gets even easier. As I said a "progressing" alliance is one that is doing everything they can to get better, and in turn that pays off with a slow increase in rating on average (60%). A non progressing alliance is one that isn't changing much and in turn can expect to stay at a stagnant rank (aka 50%)
    Yes, if what you say is true and its based off the wars you won while cheating, then we would have lost that many points. But the fact this is not a gradual loss in rating is what causes the problem. Top alliances are getting dropped hundreds of rating and getting matched against alliances they can role over without trying.
    Think about it as a bell curve, with your alliances total skill as the center. The farther you deviate from your average, the lower, or higher the chance you have to return to it. What deranking does is it places you at at bottom of your bell curve, making your win chance far higher. You are so blinded with your hate for cheating that you don't even care to think how it effects the innocent players.
Sign In or Register to comment.