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Mind control over robots...(inverse controls)

arni2arni2 Posts: 362 ★★
Dear Kabam,
Can you please explain why Emma Frost can inverse control for robots. Robots doesn’t actually have “mind”.
I know the game should have balance, but you did thought about magneto and juggs, it’s seems very logical and very balanced that robots won’t be effected by it, like willpower which has no effect on robots.

P.S, don’t make it a meme post, I really want to get a proper answer to it.
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Comments

  • GrimmbananaGrimmbanana Posts: 711 ★★
    They aren't Daeleks so that must be why or cybermen for that matter
  • VoluntarisVoluntaris Posts: 1,151 ★★★
    Lrrrr wrote: »
    It’s the same logic that allows mephisto and MS to interact with a robots ‘soul’.

    But Suck Face [sentinel] DOES have a Soul ... it's just metallic ^.^
  • BapoiBapoi Posts: 995 ★★★
    arni2 wrote: »
    Dear Kabam,
    Can you please explain why Emma Frost can inverse control for robots. Robots doesn’t actually have “mind”.
    I know the game should have balance, but you did thought about magneto and juggs, it’s seems very logical and very balanced that robots won’t be effected by it, like willpower which has no effect on robots.

    P.S, don’t make it a meme post, I really want to get a proper answer to it.

    You're absolutely right. There in nothing in comics canon where she is able to mindcontrol machines (robots), so in that sense, they should be safe for control inversion.
    In another thread we were talking about the same thing actually. The Magnetos, Juggs and Unstoppable Colossus are comics correct, why aren't the robots within the game? With the exception of Nebula, as she didn't start off a robot (nor is she in the comics for that matter..).

    It would really be appreciated of someone from Kabam could explain the logic behind going for 50%-ish accuracy in creating her abilities.
  • arni2arni2 Posts: 362 ★★
    I would understand the “balance” thing, but if you already made some champs immune to it, robots should be for sure, we don’t have a game breaking robots, this could make some to be a valuable attackers for AW with Emma coming to the contest
  • BapoiBapoi Posts: 995 ★★★
    He definitely should be. Have you tried it?
    Both Magnetos, Juggs and Unst.Col. should be immune to the reversal. Not the damage itself.
  • arni2arni2 Posts: 362 ★★
    Guys, you taking this discussion far away from the actual question.
    Let’s keep it between Emma and robots :)
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    Wait, am I reading this right? Mags and Juggs are immune to Emma's inverse controls?

    Yes and UC.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    Wait, am I reading this right? Mags and Juggs are immune to Emma's inverse controls?

    yes and UC....

    i do understand wat people are sayin about robots here but, wat is comic lore does not need to be held 100% true otherwise this game would be to unbalanced and op and well everyone could beat everyone or noone could beat noone. it would be crazy.
    A robot is an AI therefore has a mind. i can think of many ways in which an external telepathy source could manipulate the computer mind. it is merely a series of commands that one could interupt.
    medusa disabling robots is a much bigger question than this.. what has medusa got over robots???
  • OmniOmni Posts: 574 ★★★
    A mind full of 1s and 0s is not a mind
  • Maat1985 wrote: »
    Wait, am I reading this right? Mags and Juggs are immune to Emma's inverse controls?

    yes and UC....

    i do understand wat people are sayin about robots here but, wat is comic lore does not need to be held 100% true otherwise this game would be to unbalanced and op and well everyone could beat everyone or noone could beat noone. it would be crazy.
    A robot is an AI therefore has a mind. i can think of many ways in which an external telepathy source could manipulate the computer mind. it is merely a series of commands that one could interupt.
    medusa disabling robots is a much bigger question than this.. what has medusa got over robots???

    I sort of see where you are going with this but on the other hand let’s discuss what you are saying about Medusa quickly. Just google Marvel Medusa and tell me how many times you see her shredding iron mans armor. She basically dismantles him and any other armor based character. So yea I could see her doing the same thing to a computer based robot opponent. She is actually breaking them. As where as Emma would have to recode a robots “mind” to have any sort of effective controlling. Although in the comics she is very adept with electronics the difference in telepathically reversing ones mind would be a TON of binary! Another google search for you. Just look up the binary translation for the word reverse. 01010010 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01100101 I know Emma is beast but that would take way to long lol. Sorry for the elongated response.
  • New_Noob168New_Noob168 Posts: 1,456 ★★★★
    The same reason why Robots degen. Kabam lazy programming?
  • Maat1985 wrote: »
    Wait, am I reading this right? Mags and Juggs are immune to Emma's inverse controls?

    yes and UC....

    i do understand wat people are sayin about robots here but, wat is comic lore does not need to be held 100% true otherwise this game would be to unbalanced and op and well everyone could beat everyone or noone could beat noone. it would be crazy.

    In general the game cannot be held to the standard of precisely replicating comic book lore (for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that comic book lore is inconsistent and self contradictory). BUt I don't think this is a case where the game is being held to the standard of precisely replicating comic book lore. This seems to be the case where the game decided it was reasonable to make some champions immune to Emma Frost's control reversal abilities and picked champions for which this immunity seemed reasonable. It is fair to ask if certain other champions were equally reasonable, such as certain robot champions, and if not, then why not? Was there a game design mandate that stated that only a small specific number of champions should be designated as immune?
  • The answer is Money. Discussion over.
  • Bonze9 wrote: »
    As where as Emma would have to recode a robots “mind” to have any sort of effective controlling. Although in the comics she is very adept with electronics the difference in telepathically reversing ones mind would be a TON of binary! Another google search for you. Just look up the binary translation for the word reverse. 01010010 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01100101 I know Emma is beast but that would take way to long lol. Sorry for the elongated response.

    If you're heading into the technical dimensions of this problem, it is worse than that. You're assuming that Sentinel and Ultron run Windows 10. They could contain digital neural networks, or even *analog* neural networks. They could contain multilayer boolean proposition algorithms. They do not have to contain any digital representation of data that you would even recognize as such. Even if a telepath could "see" everything going on in those kinds of systems, it would on its own give them no real understanding of how they worked. The people who *build* these kinds of systems today can see everything inside them, and they still debate in what ways they actual work.
  • Bonze9Bonze9 Posts: 73
    edited September 2018
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    As where as Emma would have to recode a robots “mind” to have any sort of effective controlling. Although in the comics she is very adept with electronics the difference in telepathically reversing ones mind would be a TON of binary! Another google search for you. Just look up the binary translation for the word reverse. 01010010 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01100101 I know Emma is beast but that would take way to long lol. Sorry for the elongated response.

    If you're heading into the technical dimensions of this problem, it is worse than that. You're assuming that Sentinel and Ultron run Windows 10. They could contain digital neural networks, or even *analog* neural networks. They could contain multilayer boolean proposition algorithms. They do not have to contain any digital representation of data that you would even recognize as such. Even if a telepath could "see" everything going on in those kinds of systems, it would on its own give them no real understanding of how they worked. The people who *build* these kinds of systems today can see everything inside them, and they still debate in what ways they actual work.

    Thanks for the case in point! ^ this.... hahaha. But to play devils advocate a little here(even against my own beliefs on the topic) all systems work on a level of binary. 1 and 0, on or off. Forward or reverse. That being said, yes it would be IMMENSELY more difficult to control advanced system lol.
  • LFC4EVA1987LFC4EVA1987 Posts: 27
    The worst robot she does this to is sentinel do kabam have any knowledge of the marvel universe 1. He doesn’t have a mind to control 2. He was built to kill mutants
  • The worst robot she does this to is sentinel do kabam have any knowledge of the marvel universe 1. He doesn’t have a mind to control 2. He was built to kill mutants

    Devils advocate again... sorry. But in the mcu she actually helps design them at one point. Soooooo.... lol
  • LFC4EVA1987LFC4EVA1987 Posts: 27
    edited September 2018
    Well when ghost rider breathes fire shouldn't his breath cause incinerate?

    Makes as much sense as champs like magik and Angela taking blunt swords into fights
  • John757John757 Posts: 1,068 ★★★
    If I’m able to control a computer with my mind so should Emma.
  • Bonze9 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    As where as Emma would have to recode a robots “mind” to have any sort of effective controlling. Although in the comics she is very adept with electronics the difference in telepathically reversing ones mind would be a TON of binary! Another google search for you. Just look up the binary translation for the word reverse. 01010010 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01100101 I know Emma is beast but that would take way to long lol. Sorry for the elongated response.

    If you're heading into the technical dimensions of this problem, it is worse than that. You're assuming that Sentinel and Ultron run Windows 10. They could contain digital neural networks, or even *analog* neural networks. They could contain multilayer boolean proposition algorithms. They do not have to contain any digital representation of data that you would even recognize as such. Even if a telepath could "see" everything going on in those kinds of systems, it would on its own give them no real understanding of how they worked. The people who *build* these kinds of systems today can see everything inside them, and they still debate in what ways they actual work.

    Thanks for the case in point! ^ this.... hahaha. But to play devils advocate a little here(even against my own beliefs on the topic) all systems work on a level of binary. 1 and 0, on or off. Forward or reverse. That being said, yes it would be IMMENSELY more difficult to control advanced system lol.

    That's not actually true. First of all, human neuron state is often determined not by their "off/on" state, they are constantly firing electrical signals. What matters is the *rate* of firing. A faster rate means something different than a slower rate. But there is no binary state to them. It is a completely analog, continuous system.

    Second, many computer algorithms implement in software systems that also aren't driven by binary state. Of course, they are generally run on digital computers which represent everything in binary state, but that's just because digital computers are cheap and ubiquitous. Some custom neural network processors replicate in hardware the firing state design of real neurons, and do not have a binary state as such.

    But even in neural networks implemented with digital computers, the functioning of the network isn't generally binary. You have a range of values running through the network until it reaches a classification layer that performs something generally called "logistic regression." Logistic regression is where continuous valued functions are "squashed" into binary values for the purposes of classification: yes, no, is it X or not, etc.

    Also, quantum computers do not have measurable binary state when they are functioning, except in their outputs, not in their internal state.
  • John757 wrote: »
    If I’m able to control a computer with my mind so should Emma.

    Hahahaha do you honestly know how much coding that takes? Seriously? Terabytes! At a minimum! Lol. And still the responses are rudimentary at best right now.
  • John757John757 Posts: 1,068 ★★★
    edited September 2018
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    John757 wrote: »
    If I’m able to control a computer with my mind so should Emma.

    Hahahaha do you honestly know how much coding that takes? Seriously? Terabytes! At a minimum! Lol. And still the responses are rudimentary at best right now.

    Are you sure? Look up some stuff online about it
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Posts: 1,704 ★★★
    edited September 2018
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Wait, am I reading this right? Mags and Juggs are immune to Emma's inverse controls?

    yes and UC....

    i do understand wat people are sayin about robots here but, wat is comic lore does not need to be held 100% true otherwise this game would be to unbalanced and op and well everyone could beat everyone or noone could beat noone. it would be crazy.
    A robot is an AI therefore has a mind. i can think of many ways in which an external telepathy source could manipulate the computer mind. it is merely a series of commands that one could interupt.
    medusa disabling robots is a much bigger question than this.. what has medusa got over robots???

    I sort of see where you are going with this but on the other hand let’s discuss what you are saying about Medusa quickly. Just google Marvel Medusa and tell me how many times you see her shredding iron mans armor. She basically dismantles him and any other armor based character. So yea I could see her doing the same thing to a computer based robot opponent. She is actually breaking them. As where as Emma would have to recode a robots “mind” to have any sort of effective controlling. Although in the comics she is very adept with electronics the difference in telepathically reversing ones mind would be a TON of binary! Another google search for you. Just look up the binary translation for the word reverse. 01010010 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01100101 I know Emma is beast but that would take way to long lol. Sorry for the elongated response.

    yeah and i get her armor break ability. what i dont get is why against a robot it shuts them down entirly.... not complaing i love my 4/55 medusa......

    i dont need to google... i already know this.....
    i was merely giving an explaination as to how it is possible
    also she wouldnt need to reverse ever single command... just interupt and reverse the single component that translates the binary command into an action...... it would be a much simpler command......

    also too she wouldnt necessarily need to communicate with them in binary.... these robots have the ability to understand and comprehend and translate spoken and written human language into binary why not telepathically fed human language?

    i see controlling an AI as potentially easier than controlling a person. the whole free will thing, (same reason why robots dont have willpower), the fact that computers are programmed to follow instructions. an AI is only as smart as the commands it is given and programmed with.
  • Bonze9Bonze9 Posts: 73
    edited September 2018
    John757 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    John757 wrote: »
    If I’m able to control a computer with my mind so should Emma.

    Hahahaha do you honestly know how much coding that takes? Seriously? Terabytes! At a minimum! Lol. And still the responses are rudimentary at best right now.

    Are you sure? Look up some stuff online about it

    Yes I’m sure... it takes a lot of coding to translate neurons firing from millions of different places in the brain into workable algorithms.
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Wait, am I reading this right? Mags and Juggs are immune to Emma's inverse controls?

    yes and UC....

    i do understand wat people are sayin about robots here but, wat is comic lore does not need to be held 100% true otherwise this game would be to unbalanced and op and well everyone could beat everyone or noone could beat noone. it would be crazy.
    A robot is an AI therefore has a mind. i can think of many ways in which an external telepathy source could manipulate the computer mind. it is merely a series of commands that one could interupt.
    medusa disabling robots is a much bigger question than this.. what has medusa got over robots???

    I sort of see where you are going with this but on the other hand let’s discuss what you are saying about Medusa quickly. Just google Marvel Medusa and tell me how many times you see her shredding iron mans armor. She basically dismantles him and any other armor based character. So yea I could see her doing the same thing to a computer based robot opponent. She is actually breaking them. As where as Emma would have to recode a robots “mind” to have any sort of effective controlling. Although in the comics she is very adept with electronics the difference in telepathically reversing ones mind would be a TON of binary! Another google search for you. Just look up the binary translation for the word reverse. 01010010 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01100101 I know Emma is beast but that would take way to long lol. Sorry for the elongated response.

    yeah and i get her armor break ability. what i dont get is why against a robot it shuts them down entirly.... not complaing i love my 4/55 medusa......

    i dont need to google... i already know this.....
    i was merely giving an explaination as to how it is possible
    also she wouldnt need to reverse ever single command... just interupt and reverse the single component that translates the binary command into an action...... it would be a much simpler command......

    also too she wouldnt necessarily need to communicate with them in binary.... these robots have the ability to understand and comprehend and translate spoken and written human language into binary why not telepathically fed human language?

    i see controlling an AI as potentially easier than controlling a person. the whole free will thing, (same reason why robots dont have willpower), the fact that computers are programmed to follow instructions. an AI is only as smart as the commands it is given and programmed with.

    As far as Medusa I think the best way to justify what she does to robots is the fact the she isn’t just breaking armor. She is literally taking it apart. Take enough things apart on a robot and it stops working as intended. And you’re right! I would never complain about my 4/55 Medusa! She has been my saving grace in sooooo much content! Hahaha

    Solid point considering the fact that they translate human languages into binary though! Didn’t think of it that way. And it’s sort of a rudimentary thought. But let’s talk about the willpower thing. Humans can be manipulated because of their will. If a robot has no will It may be harder to manipulate a solidly programmed robot? Food for thought.

    Also I’m just gonna say this because I really don’t want this to turn into someone saying I want Emma nerfed. I already 100% cleared uncollected. Yes she’s a beast and kicked my butt a few times till I got her rhythm down on that boss node with her buffs. That doesn’t mean she needs a nerf. She was a challenge that I both enjoyed and ticked me off lol.
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