Mind control over robots...(inverse controls)

2

Comments

  • arni2arni2 Posts: 148
    Emma shouldn’t be nerfed. All I think it’s that robots should be immune to inverse controls.
    There is a small issue with nebula coz she was a human and have “mind”, but other robots...nope, AI is not about mind control, you can override and make bugs
  • Jh_DezJh_Dez Posts: 850
    If Emma could control robots then mutants wouldn't have to fight sentinels

    She isn't able to control robots period. Unless the being is half robot and half human with a functional human brain.

    The ability to control computers is technopathy which Emma isn't capable of
    Tho there's a mutant that can do that, Trinity I think
  • John757John757 Posts: 791
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    John757 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    John757 wrote: »
    If I’m able to control a computer with my mind so should Emma.

    Hahahaha do you honestly know how much coding that takes? Seriously? Terabytes! At a minimum! Lol. And still the responses are rudimentary at best right now.

    Are you sure? Look up some stuff online about it

    Yes I’m sure... it takes a lot of coding to translate neurons firing from millions of different places in the brain into workable algorithms.
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Wait, am I reading this right? Mags and Juggs are immune to Emma's inverse controls?

    yes and UC....

    i do understand wat people are sayin about robots here but, wat is comic lore does not need to be held 100% true otherwise this game would be to unbalanced and op and well everyone could beat everyone or noone could beat noone. it would be crazy.
    A robot is an AI therefore has a mind. i can think of many ways in which an external telepathy source could manipulate the computer mind. it is merely a series of commands that one could interupt.
    medusa disabling robots is a much bigger question than this.. what has medusa got over robots???

    I sort of see where you are going with this but on the other hand let’s discuss what you are saying about Medusa quickly. Just google Marvel Medusa and tell me how many times you see her shredding iron mans armor. She basically dismantles him and any other armor based character. So yea I could see her doing the same thing to a computer based robot opponent. She is actually breaking them. As where as Emma would have to recode a robots “mind” to have any sort of effective controlling. Although in the comics she is very adept with electronics the difference in telepathically reversing ones mind would be a TON of binary! Another google search for you. Just look up the binary translation for the word reverse. 01010010 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01100101 I know Emma is beast but that would take way to long lol. Sorry for the elongated response.

    yeah and i get her armor break ability. what i dont get is why against a robot it shuts them down entirly.... not complaing i love my 4/55 medusa......

    i dont need to google... i already know this.....
    i was merely giving an explaination as to how it is possible
    also she wouldnt need to reverse ever single command... just interupt and reverse the single component that translates the binary command into an action...... it would be a much simpler command......

    also too she wouldnt necessarily need to communicate with them in binary.... these robots have the ability to understand and comprehend and translate spoken and written human language into binary why not telepathically fed human language?

    i see controlling an AI as potentially easier than controlling a person. the whole free will thing, (same reason why robots dont have willpower), the fact that computers are programmed to follow instructions. an AI is only as smart as the commands it is given and programmed with.

    As far as Medusa I think the best way to justify what she does to robots is the fact the she isn’t just breaking armor. She is literally taking it apart. Take enough things apart on a robot and it stops working as intended. And you’re right! I would never complain about my 4/55 Medusa! She has been my saving grace in sooooo much content! Hahaha

    Solid point considering the fact that they translate human languages into binary though! Didn’t think of it that way. And it’s sort of a rudimentary thought. But let’s talk about the willpower thing. Humans can be manipulated because of their will. If a robot has no will It may be harder to manipulate a solidly programmed robot? Food for thought.

    Also I’m just gonna say this because I really don’t want this to turn into someone saying I want Emma nerfed. I already 100% cleared uncollected. Yes she’s a beast and kicked my butt a few times till I got her rhythm down on that boss node with her buffs. That doesn’t mean she needs a nerf. She was a challenge that I both enjoyed and ticked me off lol.

    Nah I saw online they are working on this. I’ll believe the scientists
  • arni2arni2 Posts: 148
    Kabam Lyra wrote: »
    Hi all!

    Lots of really interesting conversations going on here! We had a conversation with Emma's designer about this.

    While Emma was being designed, conversations came up about how Magneto and Juggernaut (and Unstoppable Colossus) have Helmets specifically designed to resist Telepathic powers, and to protect their minds from telepathy, since it comes up frequently in lore. We thought "this is a cool addition we could make" (like Daredevil being able to ignore Hood's invisibility) and weren't thinking "let's think of every exception". This is also just a cool interaction/easter egg in game, and is not designed to be a specific counter to Emma. Stick to Armor Break Champions for that!

    As you know, we base our game heavily on Marvel lore, and some semblance of real-world physics/logic, but also balance all of that against what is best in game. We've decided that we are not going to be applying that same exception to Robots, as they are all Tech, and already have the class Advantage against Emma.

    Thank you for your response. Current tech champs are pretty weak, unfortunately, it could be nice to buff them making them good counter to her as a defender

  • VoluntarisVoluntaris Posts: 1,108
    John757 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    John757 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    John757 wrote: »
    If I’m able to control a computer with my mind so should Emma.

    Hahahaha do you honestly know how much coding that takes? Seriously? Terabytes! At a minimum! Lol. And still the responses are rudimentary at best right now.

    Are you sure? Look up some stuff online about it

    Yes I’m sure... it takes a lot of coding to translate neurons firing from millions of different places in the brain into workable algorithms.
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Wait, am I reading this right? Mags and Juggs are immune to Emma's inverse controls?

    yes and UC....

    i do understand wat people are sayin about robots here but, wat is comic lore does not need to be held 100% true otherwise this game would be to unbalanced and op and well everyone could beat everyone or noone could beat noone. it would be crazy.
    A robot is an AI therefore has a mind. i can think of many ways in which an external telepathy source could manipulate the computer mind. it is merely a series of commands that one could interupt.
    medusa disabling robots is a much bigger question than this.. what has medusa got over robots???

    I sort of see where you are going with this but on the other hand let’s discuss what you are saying about Medusa quickly. Just google Marvel Medusa and tell me how many times you see her shredding iron mans armor. She basically dismantles him and any other armor based character. So yea I could see her doing the same thing to a computer based robot opponent. She is actually breaking them. As where as Emma would have to recode a robots “mind” to have any sort of effective controlling. Although in the comics she is very adept with electronics the difference in telepathically reversing ones mind would be a TON of binary! Another google search for you. Just look up the binary translation for the word reverse. 01010010 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01100101 I know Emma is beast but that would take way to long lol. Sorry for the elongated response.

    yeah and i get her armor break ability. what i dont get is why against a robot it shuts them down entirly.... not complaing i love my 4/55 medusa......

    i dont need to google... i already know this.....
    i was merely giving an explaination as to how it is possible
    also she wouldnt need to reverse ever single command... just interupt and reverse the single component that translates the binary command into an action...... it would be a much simpler command......

    also too she wouldnt necessarily need to communicate with them in binary.... these robots have the ability to understand and comprehend and translate spoken and written human language into binary why not telepathically fed human language?

    i see controlling an AI as potentially easier than controlling a person. the whole free will thing, (same reason why robots dont have willpower), the fact that computers are programmed to follow instructions. an AI is only as smart as the commands it is given and programmed with.

    As far as Medusa I think the best way to justify what she does to robots is the fact the she isn’t just breaking armor. She is literally taking it apart. Take enough things apart on a robot and it stops working as intended. And you’re right! I would never complain about my 4/55 Medusa! She has been my saving grace in sooooo much content! Hahaha

    Solid point considering the fact that they translate human languages into binary though! Didn’t think of it that way. And it’s sort of a rudimentary thought. But let’s talk about the willpower thing. Humans can be manipulated because of their will. If a robot has no will It may be harder to manipulate a solidly programmed robot? Food for thought.

    Also I’m just gonna say this because I really don’t want this to turn into someone saying I want Emma nerfed. I already 100% cleared uncollected. Yes she’s a beast and kicked my butt a few times till I got her rhythm down on that boss node with her buffs. That doesn’t mean she needs a nerf. She was a challenge that I both enjoyed and ticked me off lol.

    Nah I saw online they are working on this. I’ll believe the scientists

    I like scientists
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 2,849
    arni2 wrote: »
    Kabam Lyra wrote: »
    Hi all!

    Lots of really interesting conversations going on here! We had a conversation with Emma's designer about this.

    While Emma was being designed, conversations came up about how Magneto and Juggernaut (and Unstoppable Colossus) have Helmets specifically designed to resist Telepathic powers, and to protect their minds from telepathy, since it comes up frequently in lore. We thought "this is a cool addition we could make" (like Daredevil being able to ignore Hood's invisibility) and weren't thinking "let's think of every exception". This is also just a cool interaction/easter egg in game, and is not designed to be a specific counter to Emma. Stick to Armor Break Champions for that!

    As you know, we base our game heavily on Marvel lore, and some semblance of real-world physics/logic, but also balance all of that against what is best in game. We've decided that we are not going to be applying that same exception to Robots, as they are all Tech, and already have the class Advantage against Emma.

    Thank you for your response. Current tech champs are pretty weak, unfortunately, it could be nice to buff them making them good counter to her as a defender

    Are you... are you serious?
  • wait, with daredevil you can land hits on hood while he is invisible???

    that's dope
  • I know this might sound a little bit picky, but shouldn't characters with the robot tag be immune to Emma Frost's reverse controls ability. Last I checked, most don't have brains.
  • Bonze9Bonze9 Posts: 72
    edited September 2018
    John757 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    John757 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    John757 wrote: »
    If I’m able to control a computer with my mind so should Emma.

    Hahahaha do you honestly know how much coding that takes? Seriously? Terabytes! At a minimum! Lol. And still the responses are rudimentary at best right now.

    Are you sure? Look up some stuff online about it

    Yes I’m sure... it takes a lot of coding to translate neurons firing from millions of different places in the brain into workable algorithms.
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    Maat1985 wrote: »
    Wait, am I reading this right? Mags and Juggs are immune to Emma's inverse controls?

    yes and UC....

    i do understand wat people are sayin about robots here but, wat is comic lore does not need to be held 100% true otherwise this game would be to unbalanced and op and well everyone could beat everyone or noone could beat noone. it would be crazy.
    A robot is an AI therefore has a mind. i can think of many ways in which an external telepathy source could manipulate the computer mind. it is merely a series of commands that one could interupt.
    medusa disabling robots is a much bigger question than this.. what has medusa got over robots???

    I sort of see where you are going with this but on the other hand let’s discuss what you are saying about Medusa quickly. Just google Marvel Medusa and tell me how many times you see her shredding iron mans armor. She basically dismantles him and any other armor based character. So yea I could see her doing the same thing to a computer based robot opponent. She is actually breaking them. As where as Emma would have to recode a robots “mind” to have any sort of effective controlling. Although in the comics she is very adept with electronics the difference in telepathically reversing ones mind would be a TON of binary! Another google search for you. Just look up the binary translation for the word reverse. 01010010 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01100101 I know Emma is beast but that would take way to long lol. Sorry for the elongated response.

    yeah and i get her armor break ability. what i dont get is why against a robot it shuts them down entirly.... not complaing i love my 4/55 medusa......

    i dont need to google... i already know this.....
    i was merely giving an explaination as to how it is possible
    also she wouldnt need to reverse ever single command... just interupt and reverse the single component that translates the binary command into an action...... it would be a much simpler command......

    also too she wouldnt necessarily need to communicate with them in binary.... these robots have the ability to understand and comprehend and translate spoken and written human language into binary why not telepathically fed human language?

    i see controlling an AI as potentially easier than controlling a person. the whole free will thing, (same reason why robots dont have willpower), the fact that computers are programmed to follow instructions. an AI is only as smart as the commands it is given and programmed with.

    As far as Medusa I think the best way to justify what she does to robots is the fact the she isn’t just breaking armor. She is literally taking it apart. Take enough things apart on a robot and it stops working as intended. And you’re right! I would never complain about my 4/55 Medusa! She has been my saving grace in sooooo much content! Hahaha

    Solid point considering the fact that they translate human languages into binary though! Didn’t think of it that way. And it’s sort of a rudimentary thought. But let’s talk about the willpower thing. Humans can be manipulated because of their will. If a robot has no will It may be harder to manipulate a solidly programmed robot? Food for thought.

    Also I’m just gonna say this because I really don’t want this to turn into someone saying I want Emma nerfed. I already 100% cleared uncollected. Yes she’s a beast and kicked my butt a few times till I got her rhythm down on that boss node with her buffs. That doesn’t mean she needs a nerf. She was a challenge that I both enjoyed and ticked me off lol.

    Nah I saw online they are working on this. I’ll believe the scientists

    Yea me too! And it’s not just the scientists on this one it’s also the technicians, engineers, and computer programmers. Heavy emphasis on the latter. You show me someone that can program a computer to interact with the human brain that takes less than 1 terabyte of coding. I can all but guarantee it doesn’t exist. YET. I’m sure it will but not yet. But hey you find it show me and I’ll dig heavy on it and see how true it is!
    Kabam Lyra wrote: »
    Hi all!

    Lots of really interesting conversations going on here! We had a conversation with Emma's designer about this.

    While Emma was being designed, conversations came up about how Magneto and Juggernaut (and Unstoppable Colossus) have Helmets specifically designed to resist Telepathic powers, and to protect their minds from telepathy, since it comes up frequently in lore. We thought "this is a cool addition we could make" (like Daredevil being able to ignore Hood's invisibility) and weren't thinking "let's think of every exception". This is also just a cool interaction/easter egg in game, and is not designed to be a specific counter to Emma. Stick to Armor Break Champions for that!

    As you know, we base our game heavily on Marvel lore, and some semblance of real-world physics/logic, but also balance all of that against what is best in game. We've decided that we are not going to be applying that same exception to Robots, as they are all Tech, and already have the class Advantage against Emma.

    I guess I can see why it wouldn’t be allowed. Class advantage on top of over all advantages with robots. Could make her a little too easy. I will say it’s amazingly nice to actually have the forum mods contacting and talking to the game team about this! Thank you! And thank you for letting us know what the outcome was!
  • Zarnof97 wrote: »
    I know this might sound a little bit picky, but shouldn't characters with the robot tag be immune to Emma Frost's reverse controls ability. Last I checked, most don't have brains.

    Bro you’re a lot late to the party hahaha
  • arni2arni2 Posts: 148
    edited September 2018
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    arni2 wrote: »
    Kabam Lyra wrote: »
    Hi all!

    Lots of really interesting conversations going on here! We had a conversation with Emma's designer about this.

    While Emma was being designed, conversations came up about how Magneto and Juggernaut (and Unstoppable Colossus) have Helmets specifically designed to resist Telepathic powers, and to protect their minds from telepathy, since it comes up frequently in lore. We thought "this is a cool addition we could make" (like Daredevil being able to ignore Hood's invisibility) and weren't thinking "let's think of every exception". This is also just a cool interaction/easter egg in game, and is not designed to be a specific counter to Emma. Stick to Armor Break Champions for that!

    As you know, we base our game heavily on Marvel lore, and some semblance of real-world physics/logic, but also balance all of that against what is best in game. We've decided that we are not going to be applying that same exception to Robots, as they are all Tech, and already have the class Advantage against Emma.

    Thank you for your response. Current tech champs are pretty weak, unfortunately, it could be nice to buff them making them good counter to her as a defender

    Are you... are you serious?

    Yes. I was Talking about robots
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 6,860
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    You show me someone that can program a computer to interact with the human brain that takes less than 1 terabyte of coding.

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.05051.pdf
  • John757John757 Posts: 791
    @Bonze9 t69wbx7sjrgi.jpeg

    This guy can do it
  • John757John757 Posts: 791
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    You show me someone that can program a computer to interact with the human brain that takes less than 1 terabyte of coding.

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.05051.pdf

    @Bonze9 also what this guy said
  • arni2arni2 Posts: 148
    John757 wrote: »
    @Bonze9 t69wbx7sjrgi.jpeg

    This guy can do it

    Lol

  • @Kabam Lyra thank you for that response. Very insightful! I look forward to more of those.
  • MikeHockMikeHock Posts: 1,142
    edited September 2018
    If you're using Emma on the attack, how do the inverted control effect the AI/enemy? Inverted controls seems like a game design that inhibits us and not the AI.

  • Kabam Lyra wrote: »
    Hi all!

    Lots of really interesting conversations going on here! We had a conversation with Emma's designer about this.

    While Emma was being designed, conversations came up about how Magneto and Juggernaut (and Unstoppable Colossus) have Helmets specifically designed to resist Telepathic powers, and to protect their minds from telepathy, since it comes up frequently in lore. We thought "this is a cool addition we could make" (like Daredevil being able to ignore Hood's invisibility) and weren't thinking "let's think of every exception". This is also just a cool interaction/easter egg in game, and is not designed to be a specific counter to Emma. Stick to Armor Break Champions for that!

    As you know, we base our game heavily on Marvel lore, and some semblance of real-world physics/logic, but also balance all of that against what is best in game. We've decided that we are not going to be applying that same exception to Robots, as they are all Tech, and already have the class Advantage against Emma.

    And how long till Magneto, Juggs, UC's helmets stop working and this is doubled back on?

    Historically these "cool interactions" get ousted by some update and we get told that the interaction has been fixed.

    AA's stun for unstunable interaction.
    Blades DangerSense AR getting extended by synergies.
    Drax's double hit medium and autoevaders.

    These are all very current "cool interactions" that have been modified to no longer work anymore.

    So I ask, how long till this cool interaction stops working.
  • BapoiBapoi Posts: 993
    MikeHock wrote: »
    If you're using Emma on the attack, how do the inverted control effect the AI/enemy? Inverted controls seems like a game design that inhibits us and not the AI.
    Good question..
    I would think they somehow let the AI 'ignore' additional variables and just act 'naturally' which would effectively make them do the wrong thing. Hadn't thought of that one yet. I'm sure the AI will suffer from it as hard as we do though.
    Now I want her even more, if only to test..
  • Repto23Repto23 Posts: 187
    Kabam Lyra wrote: »
    Hi all!

    Lots of really interesting conversations going on here! We had a conversation with Emma's designer about this.

    While Emma was being designed, conversations came up about how Magneto and Juggernaut (and Unstoppable Colossus) have Helmets specifically designed to resist Telepathic powers, and to protect their minds from telepathy, since it comes up frequently in lore. We thought "this is a cool addition we could make" (like Daredevil being able to ignore Hood's invisibility) and weren't thinking "let's think of every exception". This is also just a cool interaction/easter egg in game, and is not designed to be a specific counter to Emma. Stick to Armor Break Champions for that!

    As you know, we base our game heavily on Marvel lore, and some semblance of real-world physics/logic, but also balance all of that against what is best in game. We've decided that we are not going to be applying that same exception to Robots, as they are all Tech, and already have the class Advantage against Emma.

    So then why does Medusa shut down robots? She already has class advantage. Seriously some weak excuse for overlooking this one
  • DNA3000 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    You show me someone that can program a computer to interact with the human brain that takes less than 1 terabyte of coding.

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.05051.pdf

    Sorry for the delayed response I just finished up heroic, master, and uncollected 100% exploration. Just wanted to get it done and out of the way. Just scanning through the first couple of pages I’m intrigued and once finished I will get back to you on this!
    John757 wrote: »
    @Bonze9 t69wbx7sjrgi.jpeg

    This guy can do it

    I honestly laughed so hard at this my wife came in from the other room to see what was so funny. Apparently after explaining the conversation we were having here she didn’t think it was as funny as I did...
  • John757John757 Posts: 791
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Bonze9 wrote: »
    You show me someone that can program a computer to interact with the human brain that takes less than 1 terabyte of coding.

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1703.05051.pdf

    Sorry for the delayed response I just finished up heroic, master, and uncollected 100% exploration. Just wanted to get it done and out of the way. Just scanning through the first couple of pages I’m intrigued and once finished I will get back to you on this!
    John757 wrote: »
    @Bonze9 t69wbx7sjrgi.jpeg

    This guy can do it

    I honestly laughed so hard at this my wife came in from the other room to see what was so funny. Apparently after explaining the conversation we were having here she didn’t think it was as funny as I did...

    Glad it made you laugh man 👍
  • Kabam Lyra wrote: »
    Hi all!

    Lots of really interesting conversations going on here! We had a conversation with Emma's designer about this.

    While Emma was being designed, conversations came up about how Magneto and Juggernaut (and Unstoppable Colossus) have Helmets specifically designed to resist Telepathic powers, and to protect their minds from telepathy, since it comes up frequently in lore. We thought "this is a cool addition we could make" (like Daredevil being able to ignore Hood's invisibility) and weren't thinking "let's think of every exception". This is also just a cool interaction/easter egg in game, and is not designed to be a specific counter to Emma. Stick to Armor Break Champions for that!

    As you know, we base our game heavily on Marvel lore, and some semblance of real-world physics/logic, but also balance all of that against what is best in game. We've decided that we are not going to be applying that same exception to Robots, as they are all Tech, and already have the class Advantage against Emma.

    If that’s the case why is omega weak against robots he’s also mutant
  • What about Emma versus stronger minds? Can we get a resistance (Not immunity) for someone like phoenix or dormammu?
  • Also it would make me very happy if rogue could steal her diamond form. Granted that would be pretty over the top.
  • Kabam Lyra wrote: »
    Hi all!

    We've decided that we are not going to be applying that same exception to Robots, as they are all Tech, and already have the class Advantage against Emma.

    Then why did you all apply an exception to Sentinel's analysis charges gain to cosmic champions when they already have class advantage?

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