Developers Thoughts: Improving Alliance Wars Discussion Thread

1235729

Comments

  • TreoTreo Member Posts: 389 ★★
    In the competive way of thinking the amount of bugs need to be as low as possible ... so my question is when will the Medusa auto block fury loss bug be fixed ? This had to be fixed a long time ago and it still isn’t fixed could you at least give us an estimate on how long you think you will still need ???
  • TitanPunchTitanPunch Member Posts: 60
    People cheat because they can get away or the punishment is too light. I suppose you do not want to kill your goose laying the golden egg for you. Here’s how you can punish while boosting your sales.

    - Confiscate some of their T5B shards or T2A catalysts
    - for repeated offenders, rank down their top champ 1 rank.

    These are whales so they would only spend more to compensate as result. Win-win!
  • Xthea9Xthea9 Member Posts: 829 ★★
    Just sharing my views, nothing against of anything and welcome all the changes.

    AW is really important for all of us , the back bone of the game and everyone wants to test their team with against someone.

    There are few basic features of AW that needs fixing first , I am not against of the new changes but in the race of new welcoming changes we are always putting the basic things on back burner and thinking that the new change will mitigate.

    Basic things in AW
    1. Matchups/ matchmaking
    2. Champions synergies
    3. AW rating calculation

    Point no. 2 is very important, if the champs synergies working in AW , new buff and diversity both gets resolved , if I am placing my defense in AW , I will read through the nodes and see how my defense synergies can be used in my favor and bring that defense.

    Certainly we have to rank/ level up champs accordingly, but since it’s the tacit fact that synergies are not working in AW , we all assumed and didn’t pay attention to this , unless some official confirmation we get that synergies are working as intended.

    Now we have a very diversed pool of champions with different synergies which we can use strategically in defense and offense to counter nodes and buffs.

    Additionally it will be easy for developers too , to come up with new buffs and nodes considering the synergies which is kinda cool.

    Rest everything is good , not complaining for anything just expecting some light on the long pending thoughts.

    Thanks !
  • LXABL503LXABL503 Member Posts: 2
    If you want us to diversify more give each alliance 1 random character as a must use in defense to get the points.
    Option 2: reduce the effectiveness of duplicates.
    Option 3: instead of global nodes... after placement phase but before attack phase have the system randomly shuffle the nodes with champs around- exceptions being miniboss and main boss.
  • Vale84Vale84 Member Posts: 308 ★★★
    honestly.

    Take out bleed off bleeders and they are meh dmg output champions. All of them but...Blade. Danger Sense will still raise damage. So basically this change will only make him used more, the opposite entirely.

    aka

    Use blade, but please spend more.
  • PaytoPlayPaytoPlay Member Posts: 762 ★★★
    edited October 2018
    Also for future planning purposes, the sole ability of a single champ (with synergy) should not kill off majority of the game roster. You don't really see many complains about evade even when true strike got introduced because multiple champions share those abilities (eg. Also regen and degen) I am personally not in favor of danger sense (even though I like blade and his overall ability) but If you want more diversity give a few more champs `danger sense` but for different classes or maybe even for heros.

  • A_pizZa_plateA_pizZa_plate Member Posts: 9
    It's obvious that there is a better defenders and better attackers.. it's obvious because every champ we're upgrading with the scarce resources the game offer is making us realise that there are champs simply not rank up worthy. Any changes will only affect the wails that can spend huge amounts of money to get new champs that usually can deal with things most of the champs simply can't, and ranking them up. Again, most of the players will just be put down with changes that nerf champs that they waited a long time to get and saved resources to rank. If you want us to use more champs, give us the chance to rank more up.
    That's been said, an afficiant recruiting and alliance search tools are most needed and will be awesome to have.
  • DrakeDrake Member Posts: 101
    I view this as a step in the right direction, but hope for something more drastic.

    Global nodes are cool, but would it be possible to set individual nodes with buffs that only become active if you place one of a small subset of champs on that node?

    Imagine having a node where any champ on it gains +100% attack and health. But it also has bleeds land through blocks, +200% armor against robots, and another +100% attack and health... but *only* if the defender is one of the following... Old Man Logan, Cap WWII, OG Black Panther, Guillotine, or Carnage. Make it a really tough choice to either a use a defender that is highly challenging as they are, or a defender that would activate the node buffs and suddenly become much more attractive.

    Further, between this idea, and the extreme individual ability countering we've seen over the last year, I feel like you could create a highly strategic environment that does not have to rely on hidden nodes, which I've always found to be one of the least fun elements of the game. To be clear, when I say "extreme individual ability countering" I mean where a given champ is extremely effective against 1 or 2 other specific champs by shutting down their main defensive challenge (Proxima against Yondu, Corvus and Venom against IMIW) or conversely, a defensive ability that trips up a usually safe counter (Wasp defending against Iceman.)

    Hidden nodes were an interesting gimmick when the biggest factor in choosing who to fight with was class matchups. But things have gotten so complicated that even bringing a champ with the right class matchup can cost you if the defender isn't who you had to guess it might be. Fundamentally, I strongly dislike any game element where random dumb luck has to big a part in determining success or failure.

    I think if not currently, then very soon the meta will have progressed far enough to where you guys can get rid of the rather unfair concept of hidden nodes in favor of much more varied encounters where you have to build a strategy around known elements rather than the unknown. Frankly I'm tired of being forced to bring Iceman or Killmonger every single time my path has an unstunnable mutant or science. If you want to vary the champs we'll use, then let me see that they put Storm on unstunnable and I'll be willing to bring Sentinel on offense for the first time ever.

    Apart from being much more fun on offense by getting to fully strategize the entire path without random guesswork as a part of the game, having individual node buffs active only with certain defenders would put a LOT more interest behind building your defenses each time. Do you think loading up on Medusa and IMIW will present a greater challenge? Or do you think activating those special node buffs will lead to a harder map? Does your alliance have a guy that leveled up She Hulk to take advantage of the special node buffs she activates? If the node buffs are attractive enough, it'll incentivise us to develop those largely unloved misfit champs, or bring champs we normally like for offense onto defense for a change.

    Imagine the guy who is thought of as a clown right now for maxing Venompool, but as season 9 node buffs are revealed, gets to be a hero and highly sought after for the next couple months!

    Anyway, I hope this is the place for a suggestion like this, and that it's generally well liked. I think it'd be a way to make things just as challenging, but significantly more fun and varied.
  • KalapaharKalapahar Member Posts: 1
    edited October 2018
    @Kabam Miike
    How about specific star restricted AW or AW map. You can select AW map for different BG just like AQ.

    Say 2* war . You can bring 2* champions or less in offense and defense. (For fresh player in the game to get idea of AW)
    3* war for intermediate players. Maximum rank allowed is 3*
    4* war for advance players.
    All out war. For no bar champions.

    In another way is you can implement prestige based but that’ll give high level player advantage by selling champs and keeping their prestige low.

    Just like AQ, you can select 3 individual battlegroups with respective map. Thus letting smaller player to participate in AW.
    Star system will determine in different rewards bracket.
    Map difficulties will increase based on star level. Buffs and debuff.

    Also another idea is to restrict class champions in certain nodes. Thus each team will know some information prior to war and decide strategy accordingly. These certain node information will be provided in war screen prior to selecting champions.

    I think this will bring dynamic strategy more in war and also better engaging of different levels of summoners.



  • AleorAleor Member Posts: 3,085 ★★★★★
    wrote:
    Buff 1 – Amped Up:
    Female Champions you bring to this fight receive increased Class Bonus effects. Half of the Attack bonus is always applied. Specific tuning values will be revealed soon
    Amped up affects the Attacker, so bringing in Female Champions will give your Attack team an offensive boost!

    isn't it some kind of male gender discrimination? will we see male ampeding in future?
    and if you really care about all champs being usefull, just make reworks of older champs more common. it's hard to make xforce dp ok champ, but making magneto or gambit somewhat decent isn't actually dificult. you can search forum for ideas if needed

    also how about implementing some things community does want to see? like fair mach ups, so top alis wouldn't time it in order not to face each other? fair punishment to cheaters so they would't ruin all the fun for lower ones when they dropped in rate? interesting nodes in war for lower tier alls?
  • WYdealGuyWYdealGuy Member Posts: 2
    Instead of adding annoying buffs/debuffs to encourage us to diversify our defense and offensive teams, why not do a top-to-bottom revamp of all champs from the first 2-3 years of the game? Most are totally irrelevant. I get it that you make money from new champs, but if you want to lower community rage and encourage diversity put some meaningful effort into fixing useless ones. 3-5 a month seems doable. Few things are more soul crushing than pulling a useless 5 or 6 star champ after saving shards for weeks or even months. You can do it kabam!
  • FhfjghhggggjfhfjgFhfjghhggggjfhfjg Member Posts: 4,492 ★★★★★
    Just bloody great my wolverine and gwenpool will be useless in war now smfh
  • weavileweavile Member Posts: 288
    to make thing fun and challenging, node should have pro and con and not a blanket of buff or nerf. If you want to make people use more diversity with global node here are some of my suggestion.
    + First off alliance can choose which global they want to apply to. Maybe the alliance has many Medusa so a node that compliment her would work, or they would choose a global that deter the current meta.
    + Node 1: bleed immune but if champs fail to trigger bleed, they gain true strike for 5 seconds. Popular attacker like GP, Blade, AA won't be as effective but you can't place Medusa, IWIM or so liberally.
    + Node 2: exodus armor: gain a passive armor huge crit resistance but it get armor break with a heavy attack (you still get to keep the crit resistance). Prevent huge crit champ but champ like Sentinel, IWIM or Killmonger is a risky move now
    + Node 3: pint size powerhouse: reverse the diminishing return, lower rank champ now have crit and block advantage instead, so you risk bringing r5 4* instead of r4 5* for higher crit and lower chip damage
    All node beside node 3 should be apply to non mini boss and boss node, the boss node receive no effect otherwise war become sit on 1 miniboss and rekt kill.

    Also please for the love of god make revive percentage base
  • Mike_1978Mike_1978 Member Posts: 26
    I will probably be chastised for this this but maybe KABAM should eliminate Alliance Wars all together! I am a moderately decent player who is very active and on daily, I was in an alliance in season 2 and got kicked and lost out on rewards, the same happened on season 3, so I started my own alliance and find it a struggle to gain any members because everyone is only interested in the rank and rewards not the game play it seems. I think we keep the alliances and only have the quests, maybe even more of them and do away with the wars. This will eliminate the cheating issue as well.

  • RodsteinRodstein Member Posts: 207
    Nothing's going to change. People are still going to bring their r5 champs on attack, it's just going to cost them more. I love how you're making it harder, again, and refusing to increase rewards, again.

    Never change Kabam.

    Yeah what is up with this, there having been more changes per season to increase difficulty, but no real many boosts to rewards
  • PaytoPlayPaytoPlay Member Posts: 762 ★★★
    edited October 2018
    Well I am also kinda confuse, is kabam promoting war diversity or are they promoting war strategy... Seems like the latter since the community convinced kabam not to get rid of diversity scoring in season 3.. but kabam didn't kill the idea off, just delaying it for now. I think kabam wants to promote war strategy more (eg. As long as there's some strategy involve and different champ with different ability and team work is needed, they don't really care if there's 10 dominos and 10 Medusa on the map).
  • HeraldOfTheEndHeraldOfTheEnd Member Posts: 2
    edited October 2018
    Why give these characters certain abilities if you are going to make those abilities ineffective?! Its extremely counterproductive and a waste of our favorite characters. ..or am i missing something?
  • Marasmc2311Marasmc2311 Member Posts: 2
    If you truly want to make AW better for ALL PLAYERS then make rewards based by ranking within tiers. Example if in gold 1 the top ten% get higher rewards and so on down. This allows for each tier to be competitive within their tier and rank really means something. This will also allow for teams to earn rewards that can move them to higher tiers faster and not always be stuck in same group. As of now the rich get richer and the rest cannot grow. How can 900 teams in gold one all get same rewards and expect to grow. It’s Ridiculous. That’s why Teams can’t keep a consistent alliance and you have people leaving and joining so often now.
  • Mitchell35Mitchell35 Member Posts: 1,897 ★★★★
    I can’t wait. My Medusa/magik/wild card team gonna slay.
  • project314project314 Member Posts: 67
    WYdealGuy wrote: »
    Instead of adding annoying buffs/debuffs to encourage us to diversify our defense and offensive teams, why not do a top-to-bottom revamp of all champs from the first 2-3 years of the game? Most are totally irrelevant. I get it that you make money from new champs, but if you want to lower community rage and encourage diversity put some meaningful effort into fixing useless ones. 3-5 a month seems doable. Few things are more soul crushing than pulling a useless 5 or 6 star champ after saving shards for weeks or even months. You can do it kabam!

    This dude is on to something, and I'm not saying that because we're in the same alliance or anything. =P

    I do like the idea of switching it up monthly to force players to rethink their strategies. What I think would be important in this context is to make rank-up materials easier to come by. The champion(s) I rank up for season 5 could be useless in the following season. If the idea is to make us use more of our roster, at least help us make more of our roster usable.

    As for the champion updates, I appreciate what was done this year with Luke Cage, Red Hulk, Venom and Carnage, and I feel a lot of champs would become relevant again after a similar revamp. Let's see more than 4 of those in 2019. I won't be quite as ambitious as my alliance mate, but maybe 2 champs per two month cycle could work?

    Month 1: 2 champs get reworked
    Month 2: Beta/adjustments
    Month 3: Implementation/work begins on 2 more champs
    Month 4: Beta/adjustments
    ...
  • Kingpin7354Kingpin7354 Member Posts: 9
    I think changes are needed and if we take a moment to try these changes out they could surprise us or we can revisit the idea of it once the season is over.
  • FugnastyFugnasty Member Posts: 115
    Literally last night I 5/50d Corvus over Blade for soul reason that hes OP in war. aaaaaaand KABAM!
  • becauseicantbecauseicant Member Posts: 412 ★★★
    Thank you for communicating your intentions and motivations with us regarding alliance war. This gives us the opportunity to have a discussion and give feedback which is something the community has been requesting for a long time.

    Having the right Champion, and being lucky in Crystal pulls, is much more important than we would like it to be.

    This is a core design decision which you control through crystal odds, shard collection rates, and crystal pools. Trying to fix it through alliance war seems backwards. Also the reason there is such a huge gap between lucky and unlucky players is that a large majority of champions are outdated and offer nothing of use to players. If you want to decrease this gap you need to either start improving the majority of champions to some baseline of usability (tons of work) or create separate and new crystal pools and/or increase drop rates so that obtaining newer and higher power level champions is easier.

    Buff 1 - Amped Up:
    - Female Champions you bring to this fight receive increased Class Bonus effects. Half of the Attack bonus is always applied. Specific tuning values will be revealed soon
    - Amped up affects the Attacker, so bringing in Female Champions will give your Attack team an offensive boost!
    Buff 2 - Bleed Immunity:
    - Bleed immunity affects Defenders
    - Bringing in Debuff heavy Champions will still be a viable option, but Champions that rely heavily on Bleed will not be as effective this Season.

    The first global buff is good. It's not too limiting (affects all females), it affects champions without negating their core ability set, and offers an interesting choice for defenders and attackers. It can also be scaled

    The second global buff is not very good. Severely limits an already small pool of viable attackers, punishes players for decisions regarding rank ups and masteries, and makes war harder by lowering DPS and thus extending fights.

    Please reconsider which kind of global buffs you are going to implement, especially as these are going to be active for an entire season. Focus more on buffs like the first one which are more broad and offer some choice to the defender and attacker - possibly focusing on things like champion classes, champion tags, and adding playstyles rather than limiting viable options. Getting a champion and all the required resources to rank them up takes months and months of playing so unless we have some way to rearrange and change our roster this fact needs to be kept at the forefront of the discussion.

    Issue 2: Unfair Play in Alliance Wars

    Liked what I read so far about your plans to fix this issue. Matchmaking window needs to be addressed so that alliances can't choose to queue at the exact same time to manipulate who they face. Punishing individuals also seems like a better alternative if the infractions are limited specifically to one or two individuals. I know alliance leaders and officers have been requesting some method of dealing with cheaters who remain anonymous but affect the whole alliance so this could be the time to implement some tools or changes to help them deal with that.

    When it comes to punishing alliances you can't keep just dropping their war rating because as we all know this ends up hurting other alliances even more while also giving cheaters easier wars. Repeat offenders should be taken out of the general matchmaking pool, given large reductions in possible season rewards, and eventually banned from competing altogether. As long as alliances can cheat without greatly effecting their season rewards they will continue to do so.

    Solution 3: Improved Alliance Search Tools and New Recruitment Tools

    Love it, the more tools we have in game the better. Things like prestige have been hidden and obscured for too long considering the impact they have on the game.

    Not Mentioned
    War Rewards - Too large of a gap between Gold 1 and Plat 3. Randomness of war season crystals creating huge disparity between different player's rewards in the same alliance. All players in an alliance should receive the same season rewards.

    Alliance War Tools for Leaders/Officers - With global buffs changing defender choices each season alliance leadership needs tools in game to help them set defense.

    Alliance War Cost - What are the plans, if any, to address the increasing cost of alliance wars? Will there be any change to the random availability of war boosts? What about suggestions like having a fixed allotment of items for each war to even the playing field?
  • chunkybchunkyb Member, Content Creators Posts: 1,453 Content Creator
    Ok. Now that everyone has had their freak out, actually look at what they're doing. I'm honestly not a huge fan of these particular globals. And I told kabam that in the war changes discussion they allowed me to be part of. What I am a fan of is them making changes to keep the game fresh, challenging, and creating a new way to strategize. This could be very good as we move forward.

    Look at war now. Tho it's extremely competitive, it's becoming like aq... Where you do the same thing day in and day out and try your best not to die. How is that fixable?
    The only 3 ways I know are:
    1- keep making new champs that everyone chases to get an advantage. Yay, I guess?
    2- create crazier nodes than we already have.
    3- get creative and shake things up in the manner they've now done.

    Personally, I thought these nodes wouldn't do enough to shake up war and make me rethink things... But I think I'm wrong. I normally solo an r5 Medusa with my km and I think that's going to be impossible now. So I either take a timeout or bring another champ capable of doing the job. That's scary and frustrating and exciting and kinda fun tbh.

    Besides that, you most likely run the same path every way and see almost the same defenders as well. There are usually around 3 options for any node that's not a diversity node. Now, that will change. That's a good thing.

    But what I'm really excited about is the potential down the road. Implementing these nodes means #1 and #2 above aren't going to be the main way of keeping wars lively. If done right, these globals can do a lot to inject new strategies to win and new fun ways to play imo. Sure there will be problems for players with each of them, but it's a game. If it's not challenging me, then why am I playing?

    As for blade... People should look at that a little more. He doesn't depend on bleed. If you need bleeds to get a kill with blade, you're doing it wrong.

    There are negatives to this, sure. Hopefully, they will be addressed much SOONER than things normally are. But for me, it's the potential that has me excited and I'm willing to deal with some bs to get there... Esp when everyone is in the same boat.
This discussion has been closed.